"Libby is Guilty" by Lawrence O'Donnell --- LINK

[Blackhatjack]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-odonnell/libby-is-guilty_b_41313.html

Cannot add a thing --he is right on all points.

Clip it and put in your pocket, and look at it next year this time --and you will likely see he was right about everything.

[speedoo]

1. Something I don't understand, re. pardon...

Why was there not a pardon BEFORE the trial? The testimony has been extrememly damaging to the WH, and especially to Cheney. If there was ever going to be a pardon, shouldn't it have come before that happened, instead of after?

edit - spell

[Sydnie]

2. because blivet** is not such great friends with Uncle Dick

as he once was. Getting Rummy out was a power play (even though Rummy still has an office there all the same) and he hasn't exactly been doing Dick's bidding. I think it really started when Dick through blivet** under the bus during the Katrina mess. Dick didn't go down and make nice while blivet** finished his vacation, he left him out to dry while he bought his new home in Rummy's neighborhood.

They are pissing into each other's cheerios daily.

[speedoo]

5. Okay, so to follow that logic..

would you expect Bush to ditch Cheney at some point, since there would be some PR benefit? Or is Cheney's hold on power too great?

[Sydnie]

10. I don't expect him to ditch him at all

I expect them to continue to play tug of war (play on words was unintended) with all policies and with all offices. Now that Baker is involved, Poppy is trying to pull the strings on both of them. At least, that's how I see it. Cheney just doesn't want to play along anymore. He knows he has two years left and he will never be in the public spotlight again ... until he bites the dust or gets arrested anyway.

Look at the statements each have made lately (last 6 months) Cheney contradicts blivet** all the time and makes the spin harder. That's why they don't let either of them speak very often. they hate the digital tracer trail that they leave in their wake.

[speedoo]

11. But if Poppy is pulling the strings, through Baker...

and we believe Poppy wants Jeb to be in the WH, and we believe Cheney is a drag on W's poll numbers and legacy, what's stopping Poppy from giving Cheney the boot?

[Sydnie]

12. Cheney was around when Poppy was there

He has to know where a few "bodies are buried" from that administration as well. Like waking the sleeping giant. I can't imagine that he would want Jeb anywhere near this current administration and I can't imagine Jeb making it through a confirmation process to replace Cheney, can you?

[speedoo]

13. No, Jeb would never get through a confirm. process to replace Cheney.

I was saying Poppy wants him to be in the WH further down the road, and I am sure that's true.

But I think you're right about Cheney knowing where bodies are buried. That's a pretty strong disincentive for ditching him, isn't it!

[emulatorloo]

7. So maybe then Bush will not pardon Libby just to spite Cheney

Bush strikes me as nasty, petty and vindictive -- so who knows.

[Blackhatjack]

4. It is all about the timing of the pardons....

Libby is not going to prison anytime soon. HE is going to appeal his conviction. At the appropriate time Bush will pardon Libby and others, and anything Libby said or did up to that time will be covered by the pardon.

Of course if Libby did something after the effective date of the pardon, he is on the hook for that.

So the longer Libby goes without the pardon, the that will be covered by the pardon. It only becomes essential when Libby is about to report to prison.

[speedoo]

6. If Libby's convicted, Walton could throw him in jail if it's appealed..

That's my understanding, as a non-lawyer. Walton seems pretty pissed that Libby's not testifying, after his lawyers said he would.

[kenny blankenship]

3. Well sure, but is he Republican-Guilty? That's always been the question.

It's one thing to be guilty when everyone knows you did it and you don't have any alibi defense or confusing alternative explanation of the government's factual case; but it's quite another thing to be guilty without any alibi or defense when you're also a high ranking Republican Party figure. It's a totally different burden of proof.

Like the case of Oliver North. He did it. No one doubted for second he broke the law. He admitted he did it while under oath. And at first they had like a runaway jury or something and he was found Republican-Guilty. Then after a little time had passed they realized hey this guy's a Republican working in the White House and he's wearing the uniform: HE CAN'T BE GUILTY! Oh he's guilty, he's just not Republican-Guilty. So they said he had immunity and a perfect right to break the law. That's why Oliver North makes big bucks on FOX news while other veterans hold out cups on street corners for spare change.

[Morgana LaFey]

8. Holy Cow! Libby was Marc Rich's attorney for that pardon?

Amazing. What a very small world these people live in, eh?

[Tin Man]

9. Positively incestuous, ain't it?

:puke: