The One Question I'm Itching to Debate a Freeper On.

[The Cleaner]

Freeper: "If we leave now, the terrorists will follow us home."

Me: Well let me ask you this. Were there terrorists in Iraq before we invaded in 2003? No. Was there a connection between 9/11 and Iraq? No. Even President Bush admitted as such. He also admitted the intelligence was flawed, and that no weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq.

But let's examine this further. Who is the real enemy in Iraq? Al Queda? According to intelligence estimates, Al Queda is actually a very small perpetrator of the violence over there.

So who is it then? Who are we fighting? Is it the Shi'ites, who generally hold to a more fundamentalist-leaning interpretation of Islam as we see in Iran's leadership, or is it the more secular Sunnis such as Muslim peoples in Saudi Arabia?

Because at present, we are generally fighting who President Bush calls the "Sunni insurgents" in the middle of an Iraqi civil war. What does this mean? Why is Bush fighting against the more moderate Sunnis? Why are we supporting the more radical, fundamentalist Shi'ites? And why are we basically setting up what is essentially an Iran-friendly State, where even its President (Maliki) is a Shi'ite, supposedly hesitant to crack down on Shi'ia militias?

Lastly - tell me how we are safer. When we went into Iraq, no terrorists had safe haven in that country. No WMDs existed. Saddam never directly threatened us. But now, Iraq is a haven and a testing ground for international terrorism. Terrorist recruitment has increased exponentially around the globe. We basically gave Bin Laden and friends the gift they've always wanted - an increased American presence in the Middle East in order to point and say, "See! The Americans are here! We must fight them! And wear down their armies for a final defeat!"

No. They're not going to jump in their boats and row across the ocean to attack us. They're not going to jump in their fighter jets and bomb our cities. They don't even have fighter jets. And with all the illegal wiretapping, email snooping, postal mail interception without a warrant, and snooping on internet service provider records that you are so amenable to, why are you so worried they'll suddenly come over here en masse and attack us? Aren't you confident that your fearless leader, President Bush, will protect you? After all, he is the "War President."

Here's the crux of it. If you can't see the mess that George Bush has gotten us into, well then I guess you really can't see much at all.

[Ganja Ninja]

1. Good luck.

Facts and logic just bounce off those morons. You might as well tell it to a brick wall.

[rock]

7. A brick wall would in fact show more understanding

At least it wouldn't take umbrage (which the 'publicans do).

[Hardrada]

8. Or leave in a huff

even though most of them can afford taxis.

[npincus]

2. The GOP is ramping up the terra talk in anticipation of 2008

election season. If that works again, I son't want to live in this country anymore.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. We can't possibly afford to fight the terrorists here...

we're still busy fighting the communists that invaded after we left Vietnam.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. rofl!

:rofl:

[Bluebear]

4. Totally playing off 9/11 fears, as if all the "insurgents" will board airplanes.

They will then "follow us home" into our cities and start blowing shit up. :eyes:

[quinnox]

5. also known as the flypaper strategy

It has always been garbage and untrue. As if all the terrorists in the world would concentrate only on Iraq, and not be able to plan an attack from anywhere else in the world. Yet the republicans keep using this false argument, I guess it is a main talking point given to them.

[liberal N proud]

6. Facts mean little to those who support bu$h and his illegal wars

They manipulate the truth to meet their needs and feelings

[BluePatriot]

9. You'd lose them on...

"let's examine this further," at which point their eyes would space out while the two remaining neurons in their head misfired.

Good try though. You should test it on any middle of the road folks you know.

[GOTV]

10. If only we knew a place where freepers like to go....

.... maybe some place on the internet perhaps.

Then you could have your debate....

[Mr. Ected]

11. Who Believes This Crap Anymore?

And why do the talk radio vipers get 6 unrefutable hours a day
of airtime to perpetuate their tall tales?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. good reasoned argument

to place on a board where there are people with brains. You will convince those, but not freepers. They have no brains, I've decided.

[Efilroft Sul]

14. Let's turn the Freeper argument on its head.

A primary reason al Qaeda struck us on 9/11 was because the United States had military bases established in Saudi Arabia since the first Persian Gulf War. Al Qaeda considered such presence a defilement within their holy land, thus the terrorist group was able to motivate largely Saudi Arabian men to hijack and crash airliners into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

In short, we were already "there" when the terrorists struck at us here at home, no thanks to negligence at the highest levels of the Bush administration.

Bottom line is that if someone's hellbent on doing harm to the United States, they're going to try to find a way to do it no matter where our troops are. We just have to do unto them before they do unto us and not live our lives in fear.