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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 05:48 PM
Original message
Remember the Reichstag Fire
Remember when a fascist regime orchestrated an incident of terror to grab power and instill fear into the populace.

On February 27th, 1933, the German Reichstag was set alight and blamed on Communists;

"That it was a crime, a Communist crime, they proclaimed at once on arrival at the fire. Goering, sweating and puffing and quite beside himself with excitement, was already there ahead of them (Hitler, President von Hindenburg, etc.) declaiming to heaven, as Papen later recalled, that "this is a Communist crime against the new government." To the new Gestapo chief, Rudolf Diels, Goering shouted, "This is the beginning of the Communist revolution! We must not wait a minute. We will show no mercy. Every Communist official must be shot, where he is found. Every Communist deputy must this very night be strung up."

The whole truth about the Reichstag fire will probably never be known. Nearly all those who knew it are now dead, most of them slain by Hitler in the months that followed. Even at Nuremburg the mystery could not be entirely unraveled, though there is enough evidence to establish beyond a reasonable doubt that it was the Nazis who planned the arson and carried it out for their own political ends.

From Goering's Reichstag President's Palace an underground passage, built to carry the central heating system, ran to the Reichstag building. Through this tunnel Karl Ernst, a former hotel bellhop who had become the Berlin S.A. leader, led a small detachment of storm troopers on the night of February 27 to the Reichstag, where they scattered gasoline and self-igniting chemicals and then made their way quickly back to the palace the way they had come. At the same time a half-witted Dutch Communist with a passion for arson, Marinus van der Lubbe, had made his way into the huge, darkened and to him unfamiliar building and set some small fires of his own. This feeble-minded pyromaniac was a godsend to the Nazis. He had been picked up by the S.A. a few days before after having been overheard in a bar boasting that he had attempted to set fire to several buildings and that he was going to try the Reichstag next.

The coincidence that the Nazis had found a demented Communist arsonist who was out to to do exactly what they themselves had determined to do seems incredible but is nevertheless supported by the evidence. The idea for the fire almost certainly originated with Goebbels and Goering. Hans Gisevius, an official in the Prussian Ministry of the Interior at the time, testified at Nuremburg that "it was Goebbels who first thought of setting the Reichstag on fire," and Rudolf Diels, the Gestapo chief, added in an affadavit that "Goering knew exactly how the fire was to be started" and had ordered him to prepare, prior to the fire, a list of people who were to be arrested immediately after it." - William L. Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, pp. 192-193 (Emphasis added.)


In 1933, there weren't any warnings.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. I've been waiting for just such an event for years.
It would be no surprise to me.
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volstork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Waiting?
It already happened on 9/11. Why do you think there has been no real investigation? They don't NEED to investigate-- they already know who did it. Just like the JFK coverup.....
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. 9/11 = Reichstag Fire





It would not be too surprising if they did it again, now that they are trying to start a war with Iran.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. WOMBAT = BANANA.
Edited on Thu Feb-15-07 06:07 PM by yibbehobba
YOU CANNOT ARGUE WITH MY LOGIC. I HAVE VISUAL AIDS AND CAPITAL LETTERS.



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Esra Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. So if I slip on a banana peel it would be the fault of all
wombats. Therefore I should eliminate all wombats.
Works for me!
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Correct.
This is what is known in foreign policy circles as the "Cheney Doctrine."
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. Some think 9/11 was our Reichstag.
A lot of warnings were ignored.

A lot of mishaps occurred that day.

It was cleaned up quickly, evidence removed, and not investigated with much interest.

2 + 2 does not add up to 4 here.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. It doesn't add up to 22 either, but that doesn't stop people here...
Edited on Thu Feb-15-07 06:30 PM by yibbehobba
...from saying it does.

Riddle me this: If Busco is so ingeniously devious that they could pull together the multitude of people necessary to pull off something like 9/11 as a conspiracy, why in the name of all that is holy has there not been another faked terrorist attack in the US since then?

You want to know the differnece between 9/11 and the Reichstag fire? Look at Germany in 1938 and the United States in 2007. Bush lost both houses of Congres. His approval is sitting somewhere around 30%. And his regime and all of the unmedicated shithats who rode in with him are going to be out of power in two years.

You tell me that the geniuses who orchestrated 9/11 couldn't get it together to detonate a fucking truck bomb before the 2004 elections? Before the 2006 elections? You're telling me that this ingenious criminal conspiracy has been reduced to using orange alerts to scare people? Some evil consipratiorial geniuses.

You're telling me that these paragons of evil inventiveness couldn't stage a terrorist attack by Iraq or Iran anywhere in the world to support their agenda?

Right. They just did it once, and never again. Cause it'd be, what, too difficult now? They're too lazy? Reconsidered their tactics?


I want a reasonable explanation for how a criminal conspiracy at the highest levels of the US government that could pull off 9/11 is now out of power in both houses of Congress and almost certainly headed for defeat in 2008, when all they'd have to do is stage another terrorist attack to win back a good 40% of the American population.
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-16-07 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. 911 Press for Truth
You really need to see it.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=911%20Press&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv

It might save you from embarrassing yourself more.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. I have seen it.
It contains nothing like a reasonable answer to my question, or even a plausible theory.
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Yea OK Yib
You will use delusional rationalizations to explain away all of the 911 evidence. For You, it does not matter what evidence is presented, because your ultimate goal is to hold onto their existing worldview at any cost (rather than to be open-minded and seek the truth). It is a worldview that is practical, sensible, popular, sane, and rational....but not true.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Uhh...
Ya. My delusional rationalizations, like... what exactly? Let me get this straight: Asking why a criminal conspiracy with effectively unlimited resources is allowing itself to self-destruct in a very public and damaging way is somehow "delusional."

You still haven't answered my question. At all.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. It's playing this weekend on LinkTV. Really well done.
Deliberate, factual, impressive.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. Why not again?
The whole premise since then has been that they are protecting us, now, finally, after failing on 9/11, so to pull another one would show them to be incompetent.

Besides, they had the voting machines since 2002 and they didn't need another *fire*, but now that that gig is up and since they will lose in 2008 look for another *fire*.

Too, they underestimated the power of the internet and the curtain hiding 9/11 has been opened enough to see a glimpse of the hands behind the sordid affair.

And given that everyone has had a glimpse, and the actors are now exposed to the world, they know any further moves will be seen by all who have eyes.

Of course, if you believe bushco wouldn't do such a thing, these words are wasted on you.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Maybe so, maybe not
But the neocons didn't hesitate to capitalize on it with the Patriot Act which pretty much gave them the same powers Hitler got with the Enabling Act(Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich)
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Decruiter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-16-07 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. Some think it happened way before 9/11, some take it back to JFK.
I might just be one of the some believing some such "nonsensical conspiracy type theory".

Tin foil anyone?

By the way, Rep, great post!
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geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. oooh, I remember it like it was yesterday...
;)
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. The Reichstag Fire method of starting a war is like a big ponzi scheme
It happens about every 20-30 years.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. it explains lynn cheney
These reincarnate nazis are a plague


Here's cheney and lynn in their last lifetime. This is real karma for you,
the same criminals have set the same crime in 2 consecutive lifetimes to mass
murder and warmonger.

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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. k&r.....!
the PNAC's "catalyzing new Pearl Harbor event".
www.newamericancentury.org

read "Rebuilding America's Defenses".
:hi:
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thanks for the reminder
Hope you and FSC are doing well. :hi:
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-15-07 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. The corporate media
STILL pretends the Bush administration is acting in good faith.

When is Bush's patriotism up for review? Why does he get a pass?



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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-16-07 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
17. The over-reaction by officials is one major issue that makes it look very suspicious
"kill all communists because of the crime of one communist".

That's aside from the fact there was no evidence that it was done by a communist.

Didn't they find the alleged perpetrator rolling over the ground naked in an alley behind the Reichstag? I suppose that was taken as evidence that all communists are crazy.

Anyway, they've gotten a little more sophisticated since.
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-16-07 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
18. The Nazi regime never ended, it just moved locations
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
23. I thought of the Reichstag Fire as I watched the attack on 9/11 on TV
I was chatting with someone on a dem chat board the day the patriot act was trotted out, right after 9/11. The lady asked me what I thought it all meant. I said that I thought that 9/11 was equal to the Reichstag Fire and that the Patriot act was about the same thing as the Enabling Act. I think history is well on the way to proving I was right.
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. You're in a pretty small club.
Most people, (me included), didn't know what to think.

That's where the media stepped in.
http://winterpatriot.blogspot.com/2007/02/msm-complicity-in-911-are-these-people.html
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. The club has gotten a lot bigger now.
At first everyone told me I was nuts for saying they were like Nazis. I explained that the neocons may not be card carrying Nazi party members, but that the PNAC/Bushco gang were using the Nazi playbook, Reichstag Fire, propaganda blitz and all. The Nazis found a shirt belonging to the guy("Social Democrat")that they blamed the fire on, at the scene of the fire, unburned, with the guy's laundry mark on it. The Bush gang found Mr. Atta's passport totally unhurt, at the WTC site. That I think, is copying the old Nazi playbook down just about play by play.

Funny how the Patriot Act was ready to trot out only hours after the attack, but that it was so complicated that congress didn't even get time to read and understand it, before they voted for it's passage.
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. It was actually Suqami's passport.
FYI. I used to think it was Atta's as well, a common mistake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satam_al-Suqami

Even the Guardian got this wrong;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,11209,669961,00.html
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
28. You mean September 11?
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