Venezuela: Former General and Political Ally breaks with Chavez

[ShaneGR]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/05/venezuela.constitution/index.html

(snip)

CARACAS, Venezuela (CNN) -- An ex-general who helped President Hugo Chavez through an abortive coup against his leadership in 2002 publically broke with the president Monday over proposed constitutional changes.

Approval of the proposed changes "would in effect finalize a coup d'etat, brazenly violating the constitution," former Defense Minister Raul Baduel said at a news conference. "The Venezuelan people should categorically reject this fraud."

Venezuela's pro-Chavez National Assembly on Friday overwhelmingly approved a package of 69 changes to the 1999 Constitution. The changes would institutionalize Chavez's bid to implant a new model of development -- called "Socialism for the 21st Century" -- in the country while strengthening the power of the executive to rule by decree. It would also change electoral rules and allow a sitting president to seek unlimited re-election -- grandfathering Chavez into that system.

Opposition and human rights groups have been particularly critical of how the changes would give the president greater latitude to impose a state of emergency and suspend individual rights, as well as how they would place further restrictions on the news media. Protesters and security forces have clashed repeatedly in recent weeks as opposition to the changes moved into the streets.

Baduel, who was Chavez's defense minister and military general in chief until July, became the highest-profile former military official to criticize Chavez's constitutional designs. He targeted his stinging criticism on how the changes would concentrate power in the executive.

"Constitutions are born precisely to limit the power of governments and to protect citizens from the abusive exercise of power, guaranteeing their rights and liberties," Baduel said. "They shouldn't do the opposite."

[AdHocSolver]

1. Is Hugo Chavez following his role model George W. Bush? n/t

[LakeSamish706]

4. I don't personally think that Chavez has ever considered Bush as being his role model! n/t

[LakeSamish706]

2. Well maybe I have just been proven wrong about Chavez.. hmmm

That wouldn't make me happy if he were doing this for his own personal gain, but I would still defer to seeing this play out a little longer before writing Chavez off.

[EFerrari]

13. Here's a rundown of the proposed reforms up for a vote on 12/2:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x393

[Rex]

3. My what timing.

All this after NK popped it's firecracker in public defiance to the US. Who is next?

[LakeSamish706]

5. Do we have any Venezuela buffs out there that can shed some light on this?...

I sure hope that there is another side to this story... (and its not that I don't want to be wrong either, been that many times and will no doubt be again many times) Was just hopeful that Chavez was the real deal thats all and would be very disappointed...

[paulk]

8. you're not going to get any kind of balanced opinion on this

board.

[tritsofme]

11. I'm sure you will find plenty of Hugo-heads here

That will tell you something like this guy is a traitor to the "Bolivarian" Revolution, all heil Hugo ect ect.

[EFerrari]

14. So, why don't you offer us your critique of the proposed reforms?

I'm sure you could show us our error. :)

[papau]

18. The "other side" is the fact that "dictator" provisions mimic US and Canada's-and right to recall

Pres remains - as does the right to vote - and in Venezuela they actually have a system of paper trails and random audits so the votes of the non-rich minorities can get counted.

Main US (GOP) problem is Chavez keeps getting 72% of the vote in internationally supervised and audited elections. The rich hate that - so they want term limits

[ben_meyers]

6. Baduel better be booking passage out of Venezuela

pronto. I don't think Chavez is much for dissent. How dare he question the president for life?

[LakeSamish706]

7. Seriously, do you really think that Chavez is that bad a person? n/t

[Truth2Tell]

9. From Venezuelanalysis

Some of the other proposed changes:

Aside from the change to the presidential term (article 230), the AN also approved of changes that would provide communal councils with 5% of the nation's budget (art. 167). Also, the change to article 184 more clearly defines the functioning of communal councils.

Articles that had already been approved earlier last week include the prohibition against discrimination based on health or sexual orientation (art. 21), the lowering of the voting age from 18 to 16 (art. 64), a requirement for gender parity in candidatures for public office (art. 67), the toughening of requirements for initiating popular referenda (art. 71-74), the right to not having one's primary residency expropriated (art. 82), the creation of a social security fund for the self-employed (art. 87), the reduction of the workweek from 44 to 36 hours per week (art. 90), the protection of Afro-Venezuelan culture, in addition to indigenous and European culture (art. 100), stronger self-management rights for university students (art. 109), and new forms of social and collective property (art. 115).

-snip

Other articles to be discussed and voted upon in the course of this week include an expansion of the president's powers (art. 236), to allow him to revise political boundaries of municipalities and to name second vice-presidents, among other things. Other changes would include a prohibition against privatizing subsidiaries of the country's state oil company PDVSA (art. 303), the removal of central bank independence (art. 318), the transformation of the country's military reserve force into a "popular militia" (art. 320) and the strengthening of the president's state of emergency powers (art. 347).

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/2750

I'd be curious to know more about art. 236 - expansion of the president's powers, and art. 347 - strengthening of the presiden't state of emergency powers.

But the rest of the stuff sounds pretty decent to me.

[Truth2Tell]

10. And BTW

These proposed amendments will be placed before the voters of Venezuela in a referendum on December 2. So unlike the executive powers claimed by own despotic leaders, these powers will be given by the will of the people, if at all.

[LakeSamish706]

12. Well then as far as I am concerned.. I have not been proven wrong about Hugo...

He still rocks, and he still loves his country and his people... I do not see either a mad man or a ramped Dictator in this man... My views were and still are until the shit hits the fan that he is a good person, loves both his country and his people... and would allow them to decide what they think is right before just forging ahead and doing it..... I remain a staunch Hugo fan and supporter...

[EFerrari]

15. The biweekly hit pieces will likely be stepped up between now

and the referendum.

[Truth2Tell]

16. Well, the situation is complicated

The restrictions of rights in a state of emergency and the presidential powers are quite disturbing to me - even if the people approve them. On the other hand the populist initiatives are ground breaking and will change lives.

And the recent history of Venezuela puts the authoritarian elements of this thing into some context. We're still talking about an economy largely dominated by abusive plutocrats in bed with corrupt Western powers - not an opposition to be trifled with - and you can bet they don't plan to roll over. But Hugo would still be better advised to cut the authoritarian business for the sake of his revolution, IMO.

The biggest irony is that we wouldn't be hearing a peep of criticism from the American media and power brokers if it weren't for the socialist and populist elements of the new constitution. The authoritarian pieces give them ammunition to criticize, but their real concerns are with the rest of the package. You don't hear the same critics harping about executive powers in the 30 other dictatorships that we prop up. Go figure.

[EFerrari]

17. Just about every modern Western democracy provides for

some restrictions of rights during a state of emergency. And the changes to the presidential term is still subject to elections and clean elections at that, something we don't enjoy.

[Truth2Tell]

19. Just cuz so many other

alleged democracies do the same thing doesn't necessarily make it right. After all, it's in times of emergency that human rights and civil liberties are most at risk and most require protection.

I really like a lot of what Chavez is doing in VZ, especially keeping the filthy, exploitive claws of the international vultures out of the country's oil business and central bank. But I worry that the authoritarianism - however understandable and overblown - will backfire and damage the prospects for successful reform. This doesn't make Chavez "bad" in my view, just complicated - like most revolutionaries.

[EFerrari]

21. The thing is, that Chavez is attacked for doing what any reasonable

democraticly elected leader would do, and well within the law and it's spun as authoritarianism. Like when his government didn't renew RCTV's license when they enabled the US backed coup.

What we should do is look at the text of the proposed reform but what these threads usually do is start with the spin and spin out from there.

[Truth2Tell]

23. His actions on RCTV

were reasonable, I agree. Unlimited terms as prez - up to the people of VZ if they want. But suspending the right to due process, representation by lawyers, right to see evidence, right to appeal, etc... not so reasonable even in an emergency... especially in an emergency.

I agree that these threads usually get hijacked by the "Chavez is a dictator" propaganda crowd and that's lame. But all about the man is not black and white, that's all I'm sayin'.

[EFerrari]

24. I agree. He's just a guy.

lol

:)

[UTUSN]

20. K&R #2 for, Bwah-hahahaHAH!1 n/t

[EFerrari]

22. Buried lead:

Baduel, who was Chavez's defense minister and military general in chief until July.

So, what has changed since then?