Why are black lawmakers already jumping on Clinton bandwagon?

[rebel with a cause]

(http://www.suntimes.com/news/mitchell/258330,CST-NWS-mitch15.article)

February 15, 2007

BY MARY MITCHELL Sun-Times Columnist
Skepticism I understand. But when two black male legislators from the Deep South throw their hats in Hillary Clinton's ring at the start of a wide-open election, I want to slap them upside their heads.

Why are these black men so eager to drive Miss Hillary to the White House when Illinois' U.S. Sen. Barack Obama is also a front-runner?

State Senators Robert Ford and Darrell Jackson are considered key black political leaders in South Carolina because they backed John Edwards in 2004 and managed to hand Edwards 37 percent of the vote in a state where half the primary voters are black.

For those of you who don't understand why we keep harping on early primaries, it's simple. If a presidential candidate wins an early primary state -- like Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina -- deep-pocket donors keep funding their campaigns.

The losing candidates are well on their way to becoming also-rans.

<snip>

What does it mean to be black?
Forget that Obama's bid for the presidency will force some whites to deal with any preconceived notions they have about black men. It is forcing blacks to check themselves, as well.
The discomfort some blacks have with Obama has nothing to do with his resume nor his ethnicity, but with the simple fact that he is a light-skinned black man who was able to cross over into mainstream America. The Rev. Jesse Jackson Sr. couldn't do that. And the Rev. Al Sharpton certainly couldn't do it.

For me, the black experience has been growing up in poverty in a public housing project and overcoming that poverty to achieve a measure of success. For a dear friend, the black experience has been growing up in a solidly middle-class neighborhood -- after her family escaped the armed conflicts that once ravaged Nigeria. In fact, can anyone tell me what it means to be black these days?

The real problem here is that too many black leaders have lost confidence. They've given up on the hope in what they do could improve the quality of life for the people who put them in office in the first place, and it shows in our communities.

Political leaders like Robert Ford and Darrell Jackson are guarding their political turf in the same way drug dealers guard street corners. But worse, they are hatin' on a brother who dares to believe anything is possible.

Personal comment: Read whole article to fully understand comments, and then judge for yourself what author is saying.

[merwin]

1. Personally, I believe Obama to be the better candidate. However,

saying that blacks should vote for blacks is just as bad as saying whites should vote for whites. People are allowed to support whoever they personally think will do the best job.. black, white, green, whatever.

[rebel with a cause]

3. I agree with you wholeheartedly, and have posted comments

to that effect. But I think what this person is questioning is their early endorsement and negative response to him/their statement that his candidacy will make the democrats loose every thing. Their statements went a little too far for me. I, on the other hand agreed with Rangel who stated to a CNN newswoman that no black woman correspondent would question two white men why they did not endorse a white candidate and expect them to do so based on a shared identity.

[WCGreen]

2. Money.....

[snowbear]

8. .... and lots of it

[rebel with a cause]

13. And promises of positions when their candidate

is elected? :shrug:

[WCGreen]

15. Nah, that mean you gotta work....

This is all about money....

[question everything]

4. Blacks should not vote for Obama just because he is black

just as women should not vote for Clinton just because she is a woman.

No doubt, Obama would like to attract voters from all races, gender, occupations etc.

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot, on one hand, promote Obama as attractive to a wide range of voters, and on the other hand demand that blacks pledge their loyalty for him.

As long as his race is an issue - by both the ones who think that he is not "black" enough and by the ones who say that this should be the only factor - he will lose.

[rebel with a cause]

5. I agree with you but did you read the whole article?

I do not think that any one should be expected to vote for a candidate because of his/her ethnicity or gender. This author is not saying that every black should vote for Obama because of him being black. What she is questioning is the reason behind the early endorsement and the added attack on Obama's candidacy. The problem with what these two men said went beyond their choice of backing Clinton, it was an attack on Obama due to their fear that his candidacy would threaten their jobs and that of all democrats. One of them has already apologized for what he said, but that does not make it go away.

[sandnsea]

6. This is informative as well

I kind of think the black community is going to have to figure this out. I would hate for African-Americans to NOT vote for the black candidate out of fear of racism as well.

"..So you tell me why Ford and Jackson found it necessary to tell reporters that they were driving Miss Hillary so early in the game.

"It's a slim possibility for to get the nomination, but then everybody else is doomed," Ford told a reporter with the Associated Press on Tuesday.

"Every Democrat running on that ticket next year would lose because he's black and he's top of the ticket. We'd lose the House and the Senate and the governors and everything," he said. "I'm a gambling man. I love Obama," Ford said. "But I'm not going to kill myself."

[rebel with a cause]

7. Thanks, I meant to include that but

in my attempt to limit the size of the post accidently left it out. that is why I incouraged everyone to read the whole artice so they could understand it fully. I am glad that you did just that and added an important missing part.

[Esra Star]

9. Mr Obama will be the vice president. That should give him the red carpet

ride next time.

[rebel with a cause]

10. Do you have someone that you project to be the

presidental candidate? Not who you support or want to be the one, but who you think will be the one.

[Esra Star]

58. The Whitehouse has been stripped of all it's dignity.

I think it will be perceived by the American people that
a female president is most appropriate to rebuild the
shattered mess.
That's just the way I see it.

[blm]

17. If Bill's warning these black leaders Obama will be a political drag on the ticket

then why would we think he wants Obama on the ticket with Hillary?

[oasis]

19. Please stop "swiftboating" BC with that unsubstantiated, unsourced piece of malarky.(eom)

[blm]

21. That wasn't unsubstantiated - it was part of the article about their support for Hillary.

You think they just "happened" to independently say that Obama would be a drag on the ticket after they just "happened" to have spoken to Bill Clinton who convinced them to not support Obama?

Gee - didn't realize that Bill wasn't playing hardball and twisting arms - he's really winning people over with sweetness and light. Thanks for the insight, o. heh

Still love ya, though I am completely against you on this one.

[oasis]

25. Do you believe that Bill Clinton would approach two accomplished black legislators

to sell them a "black man can't win" bill of goods? Clinton would never run the risk of insulting prominent members of the black community.

[blm]

29. Yes. And he would say it in an earnest way. I doubt he'd say it to more prominent

black lawmakers.

And, geez, oasis, look at how Bill's WH handled the CIA drugrunning story. He chose protecting Poppy Bush over the wellbeing of the black community, so his rhetorical niceties with the black community don't go far with me.

Try watching American Gangster on BET and become familiar with the Gary Webb report on the CIA drugrunning that was published in 1996, and then figure out whose WH was responsible for the downplaying and denial of this report.

http://www.bet.com/BETShows/americangangster.htm?wbc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnpublished

[oasis]

31. "He would say it in an earnest way". Please, if you would, recreate how

you believe the conversation would have unfolded. If you can imagine Bill asking them, then you can certainly imagine how the conversation went.

Remember, BC would be in a position of talking down to a person who had been arrested 73 times during the civil rights struggle.

[blm]

33. Please, imagine what Bill said to himself when he decided to protect Poppy Bush over

revealing the truth to the black community regarding CIA drugrunning that dumped tons of cheap cocaine into their communities.

You think Clinton got to where he is today by only being NICE to other Democrats or by being nice to the RIGHT Republicans?

http://www.bet.com/BETShows/americangangster.htm?wbc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnpublished

[oasis]

36. "drugrunning"? "CIA"?. Please quit dodging and stalling and conjure up

that "conversation" I've been asking for.50 words or less will do.:popcorn:

[blm]

39. Why bother pretending what was said when the men already stated what they

concluded about a black man's electability in their own statements given to the press right after speaking with Bill Clinton.

That is enough for me.

Doesn't TAKE a genius to figure it out - even though it does help to be one. ;)))

[rebel with a cause]

32. Don't want to get into the argument but

Not saying that he did, but I can see how he could do it with disarming sweetness and reasoning. Having witnessed a lot of this type of persuasion, he could point out that the country was just not ready for a person like Obama running for president, and for them to think about what the consequences would be if the whites got afraid of a black president. Not only would it go against all democrats next year, but it would go against black politicians even more. He could just tell them that the whole movement could be in danger because of the divisions between the whites and blacks that would be caused by Obama, and wouldn't it be better to wait a little while. Let a white woman become president first, that would break down the barrier and then a black man could go for it. I can just hear it all being said with a soft southern drawl. Maybe I can accept the possibility of this because I have heard this type of reasoning for too long in this country!

Time for change and time for courage. I don't care where you go, but go boldly and don't get in my way. :bounce:

[oasis]

34. Clinton would never run the risk of such an insult to blacks backfiring. These

are not a couple of farm hands he would be talking to.

[rebel with a cause]

40. I'm not a farm hand and I got it pulled on me all the time.

Oh, and I'm white but a female. It is easy for some to plant seeds of doubt in your mind and then use "reasoning" to get you to do what they want.

Mind you, I am not saying that BC did this, just saying that it could be done. After all, anything is possible. Just look at what has been done this last eight years. *#&%#*#%!

[oasis]

46. Please read post #45.

[rebel with a cause]

55. Look, I never said BC did anything. Just said that it could be done.

I understand why some AA might think something like this, I posted about that. What I don't understand is why they would be saying something like this to the media at this early date. If Hilary is not a part of this, then she should be saying that she does not agree with this way of thinking and she is not advocating that a black candidate would sabotage the whole democratic party in 2008. If she does not, then it looks like her supporters are choosing her over Obama for this reason and she is ok with it and perhaps even encouraging it. This is how I see it.

[blm]

41. It didn't bother Bill to insult them in CIA drugrunning story when he chose Poppy Bush's

secrecy and privilege to protect over the health and welfare of black communities all over the country.

http://www.bet.com/BETShows/americangangster.htm?wbc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnpublished

[oasis]

45. Headline:"Clinton Says 'Blacks Can't Win'". What if BC's entreaty to

the two legislators had backfired? Just how could he have avoided a headline like that as a consequence of insulting them? (and don't say that Hillary would have the guys "Fosterized".;-)

Don't you think that BC would have contemplated this possiblity , and therefore, respected the dignity of the two black men?

You mentioned GENIUS, Bill Clinton IS a political genius.

[blm]

48. Yeah - it takes genius to advise supporting antigay measures on state ballots

and to choose the brilliant 'organizer' Terry McAuliffe to head the DNC and oversee its targeted state national strategy.

Funny how Hill supporters are careful to emphasize that McAuliffe will only be heading the fundraising and not overseeing the campaign organization and strategy. Gee - why not? Hillary's organizational needs are more serious and need greater attention than the national party's organizational needs ever were during all the previous election cycles?

[oasis]

50. "genius" and "logic". I refer you to your post #43. It is in direct contradiction

to your repeated assertions that Bill Clinton urged the two legislators to play the "blacks can't win" card.

As you know, South Carolina is an important primary state, it doesn't make sense that Bill Clinton would check his logic at the door in recruiting black support.

[blm]

51. Where's the logic in Clinton choosing Poppy Bush's secrecy and privilege over black communities

and their right to know the truth about what their country did to them under OFFICIAL government cover?

http://www.bet.com/BETShows/americangangster.htm?wbc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnpublished

You are assuming Bill's logic is infallible.

[oasis]

52. Poppy Bush, CIA, cocaine? quasi-hijack of thread in progress.

:spank: :-)

[blm]

53. It's an apt reply to the implication that Clinton wouldn't act against the black community

because he isn't that foolish. We already KNOW he acted against the black community in his effort to protect the secrecy and privilege of Poppy Bush.

But, I'll take that spanking..... just for fun.

[DonkeyInChinaShop]

11. "Every Democrat running on that ticket next year would lose because he's black and at the top"

That's what one of the State Senators said. That is why a lot of black people have a problem with him endorsing Hillary almost primarily because he thinks everyone will lose (including himself) if we have a black man on the top of our ticket. That is racist.

[rebel with a cause]

12. Actually, I see it more as a self hate/defeatism way of thinking.

I have known members of minority groups who see a member of their group rising through the ranks and see this as being a possible "threat to the white man" as a liability. Afraid that the "white man's anger" would be visited on them and theirs. This comes from generations of just that happening to them, and they have been socialized to expect it. I can understand this to a certain point, but when you sabotage the chances for change because of your fear of the whites or of your fear of not being able to get by as one of the "good ones" because of this change, then I see that as a problem.

But I am not black so I cannot set in judgment of how someone who is feels in this situation. I base my opinions on studies and what I have known friends and loved ones who are black and/or bi-racial feel and react in situations such as this. Point in case, two persons that are very close to me have very different feelings about Obama running for President. One says he is wasting his time and may even be putting himself in danger because the whites won't let him win and will do anything in their power to stop him. The other one says: Why shouldn't he run? Yes, there is racism, but we have to challenge those that hold onto those ideals and expose what is good and bad in this country. Maybe he wouldn't win, but then maybe he will. If we don't try to change the fact that "white men" hold all the power in this country, we will never get past the point we are at.

I like to quote FDR here in saying "All we have to fear is fear itself." If someone is not brave enough to step out and challenge the powers that be, where will that leave us. Others have done so in the past including the Reverends Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, but they were all dismissed by many as unelectable. I think that is what puts fear into the hearts of men in this case, Obama just may be electable.

[Kahuna]

14. You have excellent insight for someone who is not black. I'm black and I

agree with you wholeheartedly. :applause:

[rebel with a cause]

16. Thank you.

I have lived in several different cultures,but having grown up in an almost purely white area, I had a hard time understanding why people of other cultures were sometimes too accepting of the way things were. This included my then husband who was Dominican. He both accepted the limits and stereotypes set upon him while denying his multi-ethnic heritage. My children are considered more his (if you know what I mean) than they were mine and I wanted them to be proud of all that made them who they were. I made it my mission to study what had happened both in this country and his to people of different ethnic groups, so that I could understand somewhat the life experiences that had caused this type of acceptance and self hatred and help them to understand it also. Studying social work and sociology help me somewhat, but classes in prejudice and racism where discussion were open and heated is how I came to understand somewhat the different feelings caused by other's experiences. But I have to admit, raising my own children and seeing what racism has done to them is what helped me understand it the best.

[blm]

43. The same people who wouldn't vote for a black man wouldn't vote for a white woman, either.

So, the logic to this is ABSURD.

[rebel with a cause]

56. This is the logic in what the two men said.

and no one here is saying it is not absuud! In fact that is exactly what we are saying it is.

[blm]

62. And I join you in that. And if Bill's the one giving them that cue, then shame on him.

.

[catgirl]

18. Money and Power=endorsements....see link

COLUMBIA, S.C. - A key black Democratic leader in South Carolina has negotiated a $10,000 per month consulting contract with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign, a development that came to light when the lawmaker endorsed the presidential hopeful.

The contract with state Sen. Darrell Jackson's firm, Sunrise Enterprises, is not yet signed but will run through the first Southern primary here next January, Clinton spokesman Mo Elleithee confirmed Thursday.

Elleithee denied there was any deal made for Jackson's endorsement.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070216/ap_on_el_pr/clinton2008;_ylt=Au4ZZKW7cCaysWDVJz3_MqJp24cA

[butterfly77]

20. Because all blacks don't think alike...

all blacks won't follow behind obama or clinton they are playing the waiting game just as most americans are, why does anyone have to choose any candidate right now. We have almost two years to go and after the debates and other circumstances none of this will matter. I am tired of people posting to see who everyone will vote for when no one really knows. I Believe the republicons post here also to sway the election and try to pick our candidate. As for me I tune it all out, as soon as these shows on tv start to say hillary or obama I hit the remote.

[rebel with a cause]

24. I am not a republican and as I stated to other posts.

This is not about who votes for Obama or Hilary. It is a reaction to the two state senators and their statements for why they were endorsing Hilary so early in the game, and their statements of why they were against Obama running. No one here, especially not me, wants to tell anyone how to vote. And the vote is far away and not to be worried about now. That is not the point of this post at all. It is trying to understand why this was done.

1) Was it done to make other blacks/democrats afraid to back Obama?

2) If it was done just to make it look like Clinton was more popular with the AA population, then why was it necessary to add the anti-Obama statements?

3) Were the statements due to the men's own experiences with racism or were they said in a covert attempt to plant fear in the hearts of backers/voters?

4) Does this show that I was wrong and the Clintons and their people, are as underhanded as others have said they are?

This is what this all has opened up to me, and I do not want an attack on Hilary. I am just strangely bothered by this type of thing being said. Of it being said that we should not have a black man running for president because it will upset the whites. :mad:

[butterfly77]

61. I did not call you a republicon...

I said some who post here...not meaning you.

[ecstatic]

30. thank you!!! omg this is so ridiculous

Yes, 90% of us voted against Bush in 00/04 because we saw right through his sh1t from the jump. When there are several reasonable candidates the vote will be more split.

[rebel with a cause]

35. Please read all the posts.

It is not about black voters voting for Obama. It is about statements by two state senators.

Ok, I am getting tired of explaining this over and over. If you chose to think this is all about your vote, then I give up! Go ahead and think that I want to force you to vote for someone, even though I have posted on this and other threads just the opposite.

On the other hand, you might accept that I could care less who you vote for. That I am trying to figure out if this is an attempt at manipulation of the backers/voters in the coming months. That this post was meant to open a discussion on how the politics are being played out. I don't know what went on before these statements were made. Others are bringing information in on that, and I welcome all information as long as it is done respectfully.

[Meat Stew]

22. I think

I heard somewhere that Hillary invested a lot of money in one of the guys consulting firms...

[oasis]

27. You THINK you heard?

:eyes:

[Meat Stew]

37. Yes..

I didn't want to state it as fact cause I don't have a source...I wanted it to be clear that I think this and am not certain of it.

[Meat Stew]

38. ...............

NYT/AP: Clinton Offers Contract to S.C. Endorser
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: February 15, 2007

COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) -- A key black Democratic leader in South Carolina has negotiated a $10,000 per month consulting contract with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign, a development that came to light when the lawmaker endorsed the presidential hopeful.

The contract with state Sen. Darrell Jackson's firm, Sunrise Enterprises, is not yet signed but will run through the first Southern primary here next January, Clinton spokesman Mo Elleithee confirmed Thursday.

Elleithee denied there was any deal made for Jackson's endorsement.

''Not at all. ... We told him, 'We'd love your support as a community leader and love your help as a respected political consultant inside the state,''' Elleithee said.

Jackson did not return messages on Thursday. He has told several media outlets that he turned down more money from other candidates....

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Clinton-2008.html

[Catherine Vincent]

23. The price was right?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3115910

[rebel with a cause]

26. Okay, but what about Ford?

the money just not showing up yet? I am definately getting angry now at this whole thing. I am so tired of fear being used to keep people in their places.

[sweetheart]

28. probably 'cuz clinton's clean up after bushes

Whomever wins, the term can only be damage control.

[xultar]

42. I told y'all that black folk like her but you didn't want to listen to me.

[rebel with a cause]

44. Actually this is not about people liking Hilary,

whether they are black, white, latino, asian or etc. This is about two black state senators saying that if Obama runs it will hurt the democrats, especially black democrats because it will anger the whites. Saying they are against him, not because they like Hilary more, but because if he runs they may loose their jobs as state senators.

Do I have to explain this to every other poster. Please if you do not want to read the article, at least read half of the posts.

[oasis]

47. "If he runs they may lose their jobs as state senators"?

Do you know the racial makeup of their districts?

[rebel with a cause]

54. I don't know but this is what THEY are saying.

I am from Illinois and know little about thier area of the country. I personally think if they are doing a good job and their constituents are happy with them, it will not make a difference who runs for president. If Obama, as a black man, running for president is a variant in their being re-elected then they already have a problem because evidently the voters in their districts are racist of the worse kind. I just suspect this is a ruse or these men have a lot of fear due to past experiences with racial constrictions. I don't like to pass judgements without knowing all the facts, but this is just a bit much.

[cooolandrew]

49. STEPHANIE TUBS-JONES 'I said last year..

'' I said last year that I am backing Hillary for president I am a woman ofmy word and I will do that but I am very excited that Obama is running''

[rebel with a cause]

57. That sounds right and I am fine with it.

I like Stephanie Tubs-Jones and have always respected her. I have never had anything against Hilary either. It is just now that I am beginning to wonder about her and what is going to be happening in the next few months. I hope she does something to straighten this up, but as this stands, it just looks like the beginning of their using fear in an attempt to win the nomination. Like I said, I hope I am wrong. I want this to be a clean campaign and the candidates to not sink to the level of the republicans, but I know from 2004, when Obama and Hilary neither one was involved, there was some dirty tricks being played. This is the reason I don't like politics in the first place. I believe in playing fair and being the best you can be. Why I'm a failure in life.;-)

[RB TexLa]

59. Could be loyalty from 1992

Bill Clinton when to many black state house and senate members across the south, very early in the primaries to get their support. They were all told that there was would be an open door and an answered phone with him in the White House and there was. I know this because I know a few in Louisiana who were early supporters of Bill in 92, and they said they always got answers from the White House and were always able to give their input. I'm sure they have always gotten answers from Hillary's senate office as well. This is how political relationships work.

[rebel with a cause]

60. There is no problem with them supporting Hilary!

More power to them. My problem is the fact that they said they did not prefer her to Obama, but they would not support him because from he article: 'So you tell me why Ford and Jackson found it necessary to tell reporters that they were driving Miss Hillary so early in the game.

"It's a slim possibility for to get the nomination, but then everybody else is doomed," Ford told a reporter with the Associated Press on Tuesday.

"Every Democrat running on that ticket next year would lose because he's black and he's top of the ticket. We'd lose the House and the Senate and the governors and everything," he said. "I'm a gambling man. I love Obama," Ford said. "But I'm not going to kill myself."

This, from a man who claims in his bio that from 1966 to 1972, at the height of the civil rights movement, he was arrested 73 times as a staff member with the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.'

This is fear mongering just the same as if it was being done by the WH. Let me see, there would be two people running on the ticket and that would be the president and vice president. Senators and congressmen do not run on the president's ticket. So even if Obama was the candidate and did not win, that does not mean that the congressmen and senators would do likewise. Neither would this happen if Hilary was the candidate and lost. To be honest with you, I do not think either of these people will be the nomination. And I honestly think that Obama has a better chance of winning than Hilary does. Will not say why, because I won't give ammunition to the repug this time around. I just hope the democrats just keep it clean this time.