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I just wanted to post this so DU'ers can see what we're up against trying to stop the war movement. This is my 1000th DU post so I figure it's a notable worthy one. Just a few things to clarify first. Kathy Upton assumes I'm a Christian. I'm not. I'm an agnostic/pagan type. She assumes the ANSWER coalition represents all things left. Also because it's an email exchange you have to start at the bottom and work upward. I have yet to reply back to her last post. Here's the exchange.
Chris, I apologize for not answering your question before...I am not a veteran. I am an army brat, does that now disqualify any of my opinions? A stable Middle East will procure those oil resources for generations to come. Of course we need to focus on renewable energy sources. Wind power, solar power, hydro-electric..the problem we have here in Vermont is environmentalists (the extremists) not wanting wind towers (there was a bird once that flew into one and got killed and they destroy the beauty of the ridgeline) It seems they like to scream about OIL, but any alternatives are fought tooth and nail. BUT, this discussion is not about environmentalists. No, you won't change my opinion. I have had to many discussions and to many emails from those serving or having just come back from Afghanistan and Iraq, I have seen to many veterans determined to not let what happened to them happen to the current generation of military. If we pull out of Iraq now, millions will die. Aren't their lives worth something as well? Or are you saying that only American lives are important? That wouldn't be very Christian of you. Would your Lord Jesus Christ say the same thing do you think? I am pagan. My belief system involves the entire natural world. I want peace as much as anyone else, we are not "war-mongers", but we also realize that there are times when war is the only answer. The people we fight don't believe in peace unless we are willing to subject ourselves to the laws of Islam. I am NOT. So yes, I will continue on with Gathering of Eagles and other like minded organizations, fighting the anti-war movement as much as I can. Remember this please: When you march under ANSWER, regardless of what your message may be, it is lost. I've provided their steering committee below for your review. I had a nice conversation with a couple of mid 20 age kids in Kennebunkport in August after the rally. They were hitchhiking back to their bus and I gave them a ride. Like you, they were articulate and passionate about their position. I told them the same thing I just said to you: Watch who you position yourself with. The world sees a big anti war rally sponsored by ANSWER and/or Code Pink and if you are in that crowd, you voice is lost to their tyrantical views. Those kids and I parted friendly, hoping to see each other again in DC on the 15th.
I respect, though disagree with your stance. I think that it is good we can have discussions without reverting to name calling and all the other nonsense that high emotions reveal. Trust me, yours was the most comprehensive and polite email from a "moonbat" that registered on GoE and received my email that I got. LOL...
Good Luck to you, and may you find the peace you are searching for.
Kathy Look over this steering committee and think about what American interests they may hold: IFCO/Pastors for Peace Free Palestine Alliance - U.S. Haiti Support Network Partnership for Civil Justice - LDEF Nicaragua Network Alliance for Just and Lasting Peace in the Philippines Korea Truth Commission Muslim Student Association - National Kensington Welfare Rights Union Mexico Solidarity Network Party for Socialism and Liberation
On 11/17/07, christopher harrison < christopherharrison31525@yahoo.com> wrote: Kathy, we lost in Vietnam because we should have never been there in the first place. It was a bad policy. Same as this one now. Iraq is more than just about oil. I mentioned a few other things as well as oil. But oil is the primary reason. The Iraqi oil is not yet available hence the high price now as the market is unstable. If the US stays ten years and many more people die then that oil will be available to the US. The funny thing is if our government was more progressive we could have had renewable energy years ago. As a former Marine I don't believe in people saying support the troops and support the mission. They are seperate things. The mission can be a bad one. The troops have no choice. many of my friends who have served feel that we are an invading force and that we are fighting Iraqi insurgents not terrorists. They are fighting for their country same as we would do if we were invaded. Bush uses the troops for his bad policy. I don't think I'm gonna change your mind but I hope you realize many troops don't feel the way you do. Once again I ask you what branch you have served and hope you switch over to an antiwar belief like my own. It's healthier. Since I became a pacifist I feel a lot better about life and I feel that Jesus Christ is more closely aligned to my thinking than that of people who advocate for war. Peace is the answer. Love and peace as John Lennon said long before he was killed. Good luck in your life, Chris
Kathy Upton <goe.vermont@gatheringofeagles.org > wrote: Well Chris, I believe we should be conducting stem cell research. You see, just because I support our troops AND their mission, does not necessarily translate into and unthinking approval of the things that President Bush does. Do I think that we should pull our troops out of Iraq? No, I don't. I believe that if we do there will be much the same thing happen there as happened when we pulled out of Vietnam. Ask the millions of Vietnames families how they feel about that. I also believe that if we DON'T deal with this threat now, we will just be back over there in the near future. Politicians on BOTH sides of the isle play us like we are fools. They hope (and in the majority of instances are correct) that American's won't indulge themselves to find out the truth. Think about this...IF it is about the oil, why is gas now $3.12 per gallon? Why did I just have to put a wood stove in my home so that I could heat it? I live in Vermont, do you think that $800+ is doable a month for heating oil? IF it was about oil, why didn't we just go in and take it? Claim Iraq as an American territory? We certainly have the military power to do so? No...we haven't caught Bin Laden yet? Why is that? Our military force is one of the most highly trained and best equipped armies in the world. If they were given the green light, without all the political pandering, and congress trying to run the military for which they have NO qualification (with rare instances), they would have accomplished this mission long ago. Listen, I don't get into politics, because personally, I don't trust a damn one of them. What I do know, is that we have well over 200,000 soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines who won't be home this holiday season as you and I are. What I do know is that they deserve to turn on a news report and instead of seeing a sea of yellow posters and posters decrying everything they are fighting for, they deserve to see a country that loves and supports them and wants them to come home victorious. These are trained, VOLUNTEER soldiers. They want peace more than anyone, after all, it's they who put their lives on the line! But they also want to be victorious. They know the threats this country face, and they are willing to defend this country for the future of their children and grandchildren. Support....them and their mission. We welcome you to come to our side as well... :)
On 11/16/07, christopher harrison < christopherharrison31525@yahoo.com> wrote: I don't hate you and I'm on the left I believe. That's what our country is about freedom of choice. You stand a much better chance of dying from a disease that stem cell research can cure than you do of being hurt by a "jihadist". Note that we are over there and have been for a long time. They only recently came over here and attacked us. Your odds of being killed by one of "them" is miniscule. Your odds of yourself or one of your family members dying from cancer or some other illness is almost gauranteed. which way does a smart person vote in that situation? Think about it. Think deeply. The Bush administration uses terrorism just like jihadists do. To further their political agenda. That agenda relies upon people like yourself to go along. I'm not fooled. I served in the Marines and did my time and have the right to say that. I am curious what branch you served and how you feel about stem cell research? I believe the Bush admin uses fear as a political tool. And to quote another famous American phrase. "These colors never run." I see Bush and Faux news using fear for their own selfish gains. That is pathetic. they have exploited Sept.11 and disgraced the families. They have not caught Osama Bin Laden but they have managed to get a foothold in two oil rich countries. I would recommend you read up on "The Big Game" for oil. As Bertrand Russell called. Geopolitically the US is using "terra" as a ruse in order to achieve nefarious goals. Procurement of oil, containment of Russia, China and other states, protection of Israel. All these things have hurt the US. When we could have switched to renewable resources, focused on our own national interests and established a helpful relationship with Russia instead of reigniting a new cold war. Who is being served? Well the numbers don't lie. Cheney is making a fortune as are the weapons companies. Look deeper Kathy and you will see more clearly. I welcome you to our fold as in the long run we will be the true savoirs of the US. Cheers and come on over, Chris Kathy Upton <goe.vermont@gatheringofeagles.org> wrote: I am well aware of what Semper Fi means, but thank you for the lesson. The only anger you will ever find in me is when I am on the streets facing the anti-war protesters as they burn a flag, drag it on the ground, shout to veterans who are standing shoulder to shoulder that they are murderer's and they deserve to die. Don't think that happens? Come on out to one of ANSWER or Code Pinks rally, see what they really think of you guys in the service.The only hate I harbor is for extremist's on any side of any issue. People who don't know enough and follow along blindly like sheep. But it's ok, even though you despise us, we stll will fight.
I would recommend you visit www.jihadwatch.com and learn who the real enemy is. You can whine all you want about gas prices and taxes....the US military has fought and died for your right to do so.
On 11/15/07, christopher harrison < christopherharrison31525@yahoo.com> wrote: Oh I'm contributing cash everyday for this illegal war. Through taxes and gasoline. I have to or break the law. I bet Bush and Cheney are pretty happy with all the money they've made. Cheney and Halliburton have been raking it in. So has Rumsfeld and The Carlyle Group. I would recommend you read up on what Eisenhower said about the military industrial complex. These folks are robbing you and me blind. Come on over to the truth and all is forgiven. We want to see you full of light and love, not hate and anger. In the words of Chesty Puller Semper Fi. Always faithful. Chris
Kathy Upton <goe.vermont@gatheringofeagles.org > wrote: Hi Chris, Look across the street at any rally and you will see me on the good side. I'm sorry to hear you feel the way you do, but we will always disagree on this. Gonna contribute some cash anyway?
Kathy
On 11/13/07, christopher harrison < christopherharrison31525@yahoo.com> wrote: Gathering of hawks is more like it. Take it from this U.S. Marine living in NC. 1st battalion, 6th marines, 2nd mar div, MOS 0341, mortarman. You guys are supporting an illegal and immoral war. Grow up. It was never about WMD. It was always about oil. You are foolishly being used by Bush to fatten his bank account. The sooner we pull out and indict these criminals in office the better off we all will be. Hope to see you on the good side of things in the future. Chris
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