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What Lincoln Really Said (David Swanson)

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-16-07 11:46 PM
Original message
What Lincoln Really Said (David Swanson)
David Swanson
February 16, 2007

... Here's what Lincoln actually said:

"Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so, whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose – and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after you have given him so much as you propose. If, today, he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada, to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him, 'I see no probability of the British invading us' but he will say to you 'be silent; I see it, if you don't.' The provision of the Constitution giving the war-making power to Congress, was dictated, as I understand it, by the following reasons: Kings had always been involving and impoverishing their people in wars, pretending generally, if not always, that the good of the people was the object. This, our Convention understood to be the most oppressive of all Kingly oppressions; and they resolved to so frame the Constitution that no one man should hold the power of bringing this oppression upon us."

Lincoln wrote these words while America was at war with Mexico, under the presidency of James Polk, and while Lincoln was a member of Congress. But Lincoln did more than talk about the fraud that had been used to launch that illegal and imperialistic war. He introduced a resolution demanding that Polk provide proof. Polk claimed to have launched that war only after American blood had been shed on American soil. Lincoln's resolution required Polk to identify the spot where that blood had been shed.

"Let him answer fully, fairly, and candidly," Lincoln said of the wartime President. "Let him answer with facts and not with arguments. Let him attempt no evasion, no equivocation." ...

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=20870
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-16-07 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Abe saw Our Leader coming 100 years before he was born, huh?
Not bad for a Republican. :silly:

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Lincoln saw Polk's Mexican war, usually now remembered only because Thoreau ...
.. refused to pay a tax in protest and was jailed briefly as a result.

Congress wanted to annex Texas. Polk wanted to buy New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, and California. Mexico was unenthusiastic. Polk sent US troops into territory the Texans and Mexicans both claimed, but that the Mexicans held and defended, and used this provocation as an opportunity for a war -- which ended with Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, and California in the hands of the US.

It was the major issue during Lincoln's Congressional term:

... Lincoln contended that the disputed territory between the Nueces River and the Rio Grande only belonged to Texas where her jurisdiction had been clearly established, and he did not think it extended to the Rio Grande. "It is a fact, that the United States Army, in marching to the Rio Grande, marched into a peaceful Mexican settlement, and frightened the inhabitants away from their homes and their growing crops," Lincoln said. In his "Spot" resolutions of 1847, he called on Polk for proof of the president's insistence that the war began when Mexicans shed American blood on American soil "That soil was not ours; and Congress did not annex or attempt to annex it." Lincoln voted for a resolution that declared the war unnecessary and accused Polk of violating the Constitution in commencing it ...

http://lincoln.lib.niu.edu/biography4text.html
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I was, of course, being facetious.
Edited on Sat Feb-17-07 01:48 AM by TahitiNut
I'm somewhat familiar with Polk and the Mexican War - an addendum to the "Manifest Destiny." We're still harvesting some of the 'fruits' of the realpolitik seeds that were planted then.

The quote is eerily fascinating - testimony to the resiliance of that insidious worldview.

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yeah, I knew you were -- but Lincoln on Polk's war is a goldmine
and I don't have the self-discipline to resist a rhetorical opportunity
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Abraham Lincoln to Congress, January 12, 1848 (Speech regarding Mexican War)
can be found by searching
The Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress

Mr. Chairman:

Some if not all the gentlemen on the other side of the House, who have addressed the committee within the last two days, have spoken rather complainingly, if I have rightly understood them, of the vote given a week or ten days ago, declaring that the war with Mexico was unnecessarily and unconstitutionally commenced by the President

-- I admit that such a vote should not be given, in mere party wantonness, and that the one given, is justly censurable, if it have no other, or better foundation
-- I am one of those who joined in that vote; and I did so under my best impression of the truth of the case
-- How I got this impression, and how it may possibly be removed, I will now try to show

-- When the war began, it was my opinion that all those who, because of knowing too little, or because of knowing too much, could not conscientiously approve the conduct of the President, in the beginning of it, should, nevertheless, as good citizens and patriots, remain silent on the point, at least till the war should be ended

-- Some leading democrats democrats, including Ex President Van Buren, have taken this same view, as I understand them; and I adhered to it, and acted upon it, until since I took my seat here; and I think I should still adhere to it, were it not that the President and his friends will not allow it to be so

-- Besides the continual effort of the President to argue every silent vote given for supplies, into an endorsement of the justice and wisdom of his conduct -- besides that singularly candid paragraph, in his late message in which he tells us that Congress, with great unanimity, only two in the Senate and fourteen in the House dissenting, had declared that, "by the act of the Republic of Mexico, a state of war exists between that Government and the United States" when the same journals that informed him of this, also informed him, that when that declaration stood disconnected from the question of supplies, sixtyseven in the House, and not fourteen merely, voted against it -- besides this open attempt to prove, by telling the truth, what he could not prove by telling the whole truth -- demanding of all who will not submit to be misrepresented, in justice to themselves, to speak out -- besides all this, one of my colleagues (Mr. Richardson) at a very early day in the session brought in a set of resolutions, expressly endorsing the original justice of the war on the part of the President

-- Upon these resolutions, when they shall be put on their passage I shall be compelled to vote; so that I can not be silent, if I would

-- Seeing this, I went about preparing myself to give the vote understandingly when it should come

-- I carefully examined the President's messages, to ascertain what he himself had said and proved upon the point

-- The result of this examination was to make the impression, that taking for true, all the President states as facts, he falls far short of proving his justification; and that the President would have gone farther with his proof, if it had not been for the small matter, that the truth would not permit him. Under the impression thus made, I gave the vote before mentioned

-- I propose now to give, concisely, the process of the examination I made, and how I reached the conclusion I did

-- The President -- in his first war message of May 1846, declares that the soil was ours on which hostilities were commenced by Mexico; and he repeats that declaration, almost in the same language, in each successive annual message, thus showing that he esteems that point, a highly essential one

-- In the importance of that point, I entirely agree with the President

-- To my judgement, it is the very point, upon which he should be justified, or condemned

-- In his message of Decr. 1846, it seems to have occurred to him, as is certainly true, that title, ownership -- to soil, or any thing else, is not a simple fact; but is a conclusion following one or more simple facts; and that it was incumbent upon him, to present the facts, from which he concluded, the soil was ours, on which the first blood of the war was shed

-- Accordingly a little below the middle of page twelve in the Message ast referred to, he enters upon that task; forming an issue, and introducing testimony, extending the whole, to a little below the middle of page fourteen

-- Now I propose to try to show, that the whole of this, -- issue and evidence -- is, from beginning to end, the sheerest deception

-- The issue, as he presents it, is in these words "But there are those who, conceding all this to be true, assume the ground that the true western boundary of Texas is the Nueces, instead of the Rio Grande; and that, therefore, in marching our army to the east bank of the latter river, we passed the Texan line, and invaded the teritory of Mexico"

-- Now this issue, is made up of two affirmatives and no negative; The main deception of it is, that it assumes as true, that one river or the other is necessarily the boundary; and cheats the superficial thinker entirely out of the idea, that possibly the boundary is somewhere between the two,and not actually at either

-- A further deception is, that it will let in evidence, which a true issue would exclude

-- A true issue, made by the President, would be about as follows "I say, the soil was ours, on which the first blood was shed; there are those who say it was not"

-- I now proceed to examine the Presidents evidence, as applicable to such an issue

-- When that evidence is analized, it is all included in the following propositions

-- 1-- That the Rio Grande was the Western boundary of Louisiana as we purchased it of France in 1803
-- 2 That the Republic of Texas always claimed the Rio Grande, as her Western boundary
-- 3 That by various acts, she had claimed it on paper
-- 4-- That Santa Anna,3 in his treaty with Texas, recognised the Rio Grande, as her boundary
-- 5-- That Texas before, and the U S. after, annexation had exercised jurisdiction beyond the Nueces -- between the two rivers
-- 6 That our Congress, understood the boundary of Texas to extend beyond the Nueces--

Now for each of these in it's turn

-- His first item is, that the Rio Grande was the Western boundary of Louisiana, as we purchased it in 1803 of France in 1803; and seeming to expect this to be disputed, he argues over the amount of nearly a page, to prove it true; at the end of which he lets us know, that by the treaty of 1819, we sold to Spain the whole country from the Rio Grande eastward, to the Sabine,

Now, admitting for the present, that the Rio Grande, was the boundary of Louisiana, what, under heaven, had that to do with the present boundary between us and Mexico?

-- How, Mr Chairman, the line, that once divided your land from mine, can still be the boundary between us, after I have sold my land to you, is, to me, beyond all comprehension

-- And how any man, with an honest purpose only, of proving the truth, could ever have thought of introducing such a fact to prove such an issue, is equally incomprehensible-- His next piece of evidence is that "The Republic of Texas always claimed this river (Rio Grande) as her western boundary" That is not true, in fact

-- Texas has claimed it, but she has not always claimed it

-- There is, at least, one distinguished exception Her state constitution, -- the republic's most solemn, and well considered act -- that which may, without impropriety, be called her last will and testament revoking all others -- makes no such claim

-- But suppose she had always claimed it

-- Has not Mexico always claimed the contrary? so that there is but claim against claim, leaving nothing proved, until we get back of the claims, and find which has the better foundation

-- Though not in the order in which the President presents his evidence, I now consider that class of his statements, which are, in substance, nothing more, than that Texas has, by various acts of her convention and Congress, claimed the Rio Grande, as her boundary, on paper

-- I mean here what he says about the fixing of the Rio Grande as her boundary in her old constitution (not her state constitution) about forming Congressional districts, counties &c &c

-- Now all of this is but naked claim; and what I have already said about claims is strictly applicable to this

-- If I should claim your land, by word of mouth, that certainly would not make it mine; and if I were to claim it by a deed which I had made myself, and with which, you had had nothing to, do, the claim would be quite the same, in substance --or rather, in utter nothingness

-- I next consider the President's statement that Santa Anna in his treaty with Texas, recognized the Rio Grande, as the western boundary of Texas

-- Besides the position, so often taken that Santa Anna, while a prisoner of war, a captive, could not bind Mexico by a treaty, which I deem conclusive

-- besides this, I wish to say something in relation to this treaty, so called by the President, with Santa Anna

-- If any man would like to be amused by a sight of that little thing, which the President calls by that big name, he can have it, by turning to Nile's Register volume 50, page 336

-- And if any one should suppose that Nile's Register is a curious repository of so mighty a document, as a solemn treaty between nations, I can only say that I learned, to a tolerable degree certainty, by enquiry at the State Department, that the President himself, never saw it any where else

-- By the way, I belive I should not err, if I were to declare, that during the first ten years of the existence of that document, it was never, by any body, called himself take up arms, nor influence the Mexican people to take up arms, against Texas during the existence of the war of independence He did not recognize the independence of Texas; he did not assume to put an end to the war; but clearly indicated his expectation of it's continuance; he did not say one word about boundary, and, most probably, never thought of it

-- It is stipulated therein that the Mexican forces should evacuate the teritory of Texas, passing to the other side of the Rio Grande; and in another article, it is stipulated that, to prevent collisions between the armies, the Texan army shall should not approach nearer than within five leagues -- of what is not said -- but clearly, from the object stated it is, of the Rio Grande

-- Now, if this is a treaty, recognising the Rio Grande, as the boundary of Texas, it contains the singular feature, of stipulating, that Texas shall not go within five leagues of her own boundary

Next comes the evidence of Texas before annexation, and the United States, afterwards, exercising jurisdiction beyond the Nueces, and between the two rivers

-- This actual exercise of jurisdiction, is the very class or quality of evidence we want-- It is excellent so far as it goes; but does it go far enough?

-- He tells us it went beyond the Nueces; but he does not tell us it went to the Rio Grande

-- He tells us, jurisdiction was exercised between the two rivers, but he does not tell us it was exercised over all the territory between them

Some simple minded people, think it is possible, to cross one river and go beyond it without going all the way to the next that jurisdiction may be exercised between two rivers without covering all the country between them

-- I know a man, not very unlike myself, who exercises jurisdiction over a piece of land between the Wabash and the Mississippi; and yet so far is this from being all there is between those rivers, that it is just one hundred and fifty two feet long by fifty wide, and no part of it much within a hundred miles of either

-- He has a neighbour between him and the Mississippi, -- that is, just across the street, in that direction -- whom, I am sure, he could neither persuade nor force to give up his habitation; but which nevertheless he could certainly annex, if it were to be done, by merely standing on his own side of the street and claiming it, or even, sitting down, and writing a deed for it

-- But next, the President tells us, the Congress of the United States, understood the state of Texas they admitted into the union, to extend beyond the Nueces

-- Well, I suppose they did

-- I certainly so understand it

-- But how far beyond? That Congress did not understand it to extend clear to the Rio Grande, is quite certain by the fact of their joint resolutions, for admission, expressly, leaving all questions of boundary to future adjustment. And it may be added, that Texas herself, is proved to have had the same understanding of it, that our Congress had, by the fact of the exact conformity of her new constitution, to those resolutions

-- I am now through the whole of the President's evidence; and it is a singular fact, that if any one should declare the President sent the army into the midst of a settlement of Mexican people, who had never submited, by consent or by force, to the authority of Texas or of the United States, and that there, and thereby, the first blood of the war was shed, there is not one word in all the President has said, which would either admit or deny the declaration

-- This strange omission, it does seem to me, could not have occured but by design

-- My way of living leads me to be about the courts of justice; and there, I have sometimes seen a good lawyer, struggling for his client's neck, in a desparate case, employing every artifice to work round, befog, and cover up, with many words, some point arising in the case, which he dared not admit, and yet could not deny

-- Party bias may help to make it appear so; but with all the allowance I can make for such bias, it still does appear s to me, that just such, and from just such necessity, is the President's struggle in this case

-- Some time after my colleague (Mr. Richardson) introduced the resolutions I have mentioned, I introduced a preamble, resolution, and interrogatories, intended to draw the President out, if possible, on this hitherto untrodden ground

-- To show their relevancy, I propose to state my understanding of the true rule for ascertaining the boundary between Texas and Mexico

-- It is, that wherever Texas was exercising its jurisdiction, was hers; and wherever Mexico was exercising jurisdiction, was hers; and that whatever separated the actual exercise of jurisdiction of the one, from that of the other, was the true boundary between them

-- If, as is probably true, Texas was exercising jurisdiction along the western bank of the Nueces, and Mexico was exercising it along the eastern bank of the Rio Grande, then neither river was the boundary; but the uninhabited country between the two, was

-- The extent of our teritory in that region depended, not on any treaty-fixed boundary (for no treaty had attempted it) but on revolution

-- Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better

-- This is a most valuable, -- a most sacred right -- a right, which we hope and belive, is to liberate the world

-- Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government, may choose to exercise it

-- Any portion of such people that can may revolutionize, and make their own, of so much of the teritory as they inhabit

-- More than this, a majority of any portion of the such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority, intermingled with, or near about them, who may oppose their movement

-- Such minority, was precisely the case, of the tories of our own revolution

-- It is a quality of revolutions, not to go by old lines, or old laws; but to break up both, and make new ones

-- As to the country now in question, we bought it of France in 1803, and sold it to Spain in 1819 according to the President's statement

-- After this, all Mexico, including Texas, revolutionized against Spain; and still later, Texas revolutionized against Mexico

-- In our view, just so far as she carried her revolution, by obtaining the actual, willing or unwilling, submission of the people, so far, the country was hers, and no farther

-- Now sir, for the purpose of obtaining the very best evidence, as to whether Texas had actually carried her revolution, to the place where the hostilities of the present war commenced, let the President answer the interrogatories, I proposed, as before mentioned, or some other similar ones -- Let him answer, fully, fairly, and candidly

-- Let him answer with facts, and not with arguments

-- Let him remember he sits where Washington sat, and so remembering, let him answer, as Washington would answer

-- As a nation should not, and the Almighty will not, be evaded, so let him attempt no evasion -- no equivocation

-- And if, so answering, he can show that the soil was ours, where the first blood of the war was shed -- that it was not within an inhabited country, or, if within such, that the inhabitants had submitted themselves to the civil authority of Texas, or of the United States, and that the same is true of the site of Fort Brown, then I am with him for his justification

-- In that case I, shall be most happy to reverse the vote I gave the other day

-- I have a selfish motive for desiring that the President may do this

-- I expect to give some votes, in connection with the war, which, without his so doing, will be of doubtful propriety in my own judgment, but which will be free from the doubt if he does so

-- But if he can not, or will not do this -- if on any pretence, or no pretence, he shall refuse or omit it, then I shall be fully convinced, of what I more than suspect already, that he is deeply conscious of being in the wrong -- that he feels the blood of this war, like the blood of Abel, is crying to Heaven against him

-- That originally having some strong motive -- what, I will not stop now to give my opinion concerning -- to involve the two countries in a war, and trusting to escape scrutiny, by fixing the public gaze upon the exceeding brightness of military glory -- that attractive rainbow, that rises in showers of blood, that serpent's eye, that charms to destroy -- he plunged into it, and has swept, on and on, till, disappointed in his calculation of the ease with which Mexico might be subdued, he now finds himself, he knows not where

-- How like the half insane mumbling of a fever-dream, is the whole war part of his late message! At one time telling us that Mexico has nothing whatever, that we can get, but territory; at another, showing us how we can support the war, by levying contributions on Mexico

-- At one time, urging the national honor, the security of the future, the prevention of foreign interference, and even, the good of Mexico herself, as among the objects of the war; at another, telling us, that "to reject indemnity by refusing to accept a cession of teritory, would be to abandon all our just demands, and to wage the war, bearing all it's expenses, without a purpose or definite object" So then, the national honor, security of the future, and every thing but teritorial indemnity, may be considered the no-purposes, and indefinite objects of the war! But, having it now settled that teritorial indemnity is the only object, we are urged to seize, by legislation here, all that he was content to take, a few months ago, and the whole province of lower California to boot, and to still carry on the war -- to take all we are fighting for, and still fight on

-- Again, the President is resolved, under all circumstances, to have full teritorial indemnity for the expenses of the war; but he forgets to tell us how we are to get the excess, after those expenses shall have surpassed the value of the whole of the Mexican teritory

-- So again, he insists that the separate national existence of Mexico, shall be maintained; but he does not tell us how this can be done, after we shall have taken all her territory

-- Lest the questions, I here suggest, be considered speculative merely, let me be indulged a moment in trying show they are not

-- The war has gone on some twenty months; for the expenses of which, together with an inconsiderable old score, the President now claims about one half of the Mexican teritory; and that, by far the better half, so far as concerns our ability to make any thing out of it

-- It is comparatively uninhabited; so that we could establish land offices in it, and raise some money in that way

-- But the other half is already inhabited, as I understand it, tolerably densely for the nature of the country; and all it's lands, or all that are valuable, remove the encumbrance? I suppose no one will say we should kill the people, or drive them out, or make slaves of them, or even confiscate their property-- How then can we make much out of this part of the teritory? If the prossecution of this war has, in expenses, already equalled the better speculative, but a practical question, pressing closely upon us

-- And yet it is a question which the President seems to never have thought of

-- As to the mode of terminating the war, and securing peace, the President is equally wandering and indefinite

-- First, it is to be done by a more vigorous prossecution of the war in the vital parts of the enemies country; and, after apparantly talking himself tired, on this point, the President drops down into a half despairing tone, and tells us that "with a people distracted and divided by contending factions, and a government subject to constant changes, by successive revolutions, the continued success of our arms may fail to secure a satisfactory peace"

Then he suggests the propriety of wheedling the Mexican people to desert the counsels of their own leaders, and trusting in our protection to set up a government from which we can secure a satisfactory peace; telling us that " this may become the only mode of obtaining such a peace."

But soon he falls into doubt of this too; and then drops back on to the already half abandoned ground of "more vigorous prossecution

-- All this shows that the President is, in no wise, satisfied with his own positions

-- First he takes up one, and in attempting to argue us into it, he argues himself out of it; then seizes another, and goes through the same process; and then, confused at being able to think of nothing new, he snatches up the old one again, which he has some time before cast off

- His mind, tasked beyond its power, is running hither and thither, like some tortured creature, on a burning surface, finding no position, on which it can settle down, and be at ease

-- Again, it is a singular omission in this message, that it, no where intimates when the President expects the the war to terminate

-- At it's beginning, Genl. Scott was, by this same President, driven into disfavor, if not disgrace, for intimating that peace could not be conquered in less than three or four months

-- But now, at the end of about twenty months, during which time our arms have given us the most splendid successes -- every department, and every part, land and water, officers and privates, regular and volunteers, doing all that men could do, and hundreds of things which it had ever before been thought men could not do, after all this, this same President gives us a long message, without showing us, that, as to the end, he himself has, even an imaginary conception

-- As I have before said, he knows not where he is

-- He is a bewildered, confounded, and miserably perplexed man

-- God grant he may be able to show, there is not something about his conscience more painful than all his mental perplexity!
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-16-07 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. Perfect!
Now who's going to get this quote at least as much publicity as the fake one and read it into the Congressional Record?

:bounce:
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. I hope someone stands up,
points out the republican lie
and puts the right words in the
congressional record.

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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
8. Good post! Kicked, recommended and bookmarked!
Always good to have handy, as resource material.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
9. BREAKING: Republicans are going to exhume Lincoln so they can shoot him for treason!
:rofl:
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
10. To William H. Herndon. Washington, February 15, 1848.


Feb 24, 2004
On The Mexican War

... The text of the letter can be found in Vol. 2 of the Complete Writings of Abraham Lincoln ... Sen. Robert Byrd (D, W.V.) read it on the Senate floor.

TO WILLIAM H. HERNDON
WASHINGTON, February 15, 1848

DEAR WILLIAM:

--Your letter of the 29th January was received last night. Being exclusively a constitutional argument, I wish to submit some reflections upon it in the same spirit of kindness that I know actuates you. Let me first state what I understand to be your position. It is that if it shall become necessary to repel invasion, the President may, without violation of the Constitution, cross the line and invade the territory of another country, and that whether such necessity exists in any given case the President is the sole judge.

Before going further consider well whether this is or is not your position. If it is, it is a position that neither the President himself, nor any friend of his, so far as I know, has ever taken. Their only positions are--first, that the soil was ours when the hostilities commenced; and second, that whether it was rightfully ours or not, Congress had annexed it, and the President for that reason was bound to defend it; both of which are as clearly proved to be false in fact as you can prove that your house is mine. The soil was not ours, and Congress did not annex or attempt to annex it. But to return to your position. Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If to-day he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."

The provision of the Constitution giving the war making power to Congress was dictated, as I understand it, by the following reasons: kings had always been involving and impoverishing their people in wars, pretending generally, if not always, that the good of the people was the object. This our convention understood to be the most oppressive of all kingly oppressions, and they resolved to so frame the Constitution that no one man should hold the power of bringing this oppression upon us. But your view destroys the whole matter, and places our President where kings have always stood. Write soon again.

Yours truly,

A. LINCOLN.


http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2004/02/on_the_mexican_.html
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
11. I have found it strange that they never go to Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural
Address and use some of the most eloquent words ever spoken:


"With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."


Then again, Lincoln was far more progressive than the RWer's would like to believe. It is sad that they use him only to gain power, and then corrupt all he stood for.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
12. K & R
:kick:
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. Honest, It Wasn't Abe's Comment (Washington Post)
Friday, February 16, 2007; Page A21

During floor debate on the Iraq war yesterday, Rep. Don Young (R-Alaska) quoted Abraham Lincoln as advocating the hanging of lawmakers who undermine military morale during wartime ... His spokeswoman, Meredith Kenny, says the congressman took the quote from an article he read in the Washington Times on Tuesday. "Now that he's been informed these are not the actual words of Lincoln ... he continues to totally agree with the message ..." Kenny said ... And no, Kenny said, Young was "not advocating the hanging of Democrats."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/15/AR2007021501525.html

Apparently Donny can't decide whether to back-pedal or not
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 02:33 PM
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14. Washington Times Lands Abe Lincoln Scoop
Washington Times Lands Abe Lincoln Scoop
February 16, 2007
... J. Michael Waller opened his 12/23/03 article, “Democrats Usher in An Age of Treason,” with those words. He later explained in an email to Factcheck.org: The supposed quote in question is not a quote at all, and I never intended it to be construed as one. It was my lead sentence in the article that a copy editor mistakenly turned into a quote by incorrectly inserting quotation marks ... http://www.rightwingwatch.org/2007/02/washington_time_1.html


Here, for the record is the beginning of Waller's 2003 article:

Insight on the News
22 December 2003
J. Michael Waller

"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged" - that's what President Abraham Lincoln said during the War Between the States ...


So Waller claims he actually wrote

Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged - that's what President Abraham Lincoln said during the War Between the States ...


And Waller says he never intended that to be construed as a quote. The rest of the 2003 article contains a number of other inaccuracies as well. "Conservative scholar" seems to be something of an oxymoron







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LynzM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
15. Some things never change.
A man with a clear view of humanity and human nature, to write things like that. Sadly, such things still hold true, as is evident by our "fearless leader" who has done just what Lincoln described. :(
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-17-07 10:45 PM
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16. Theodore Roosevelt said it best.
"People ask the difference between a leader and a boss. The leader leads, and the boss drives."

Lincoln was a leader who led his country through its harshest challenge.

Bush is a boss who's driving his country into a ditch.
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