Gee, Keith, aren't Alcoholics a hoot... I mean really funny?

[Dawggie]

I love you, dude, but you have played the Hasselhoff video of him trying to eat a burger off/on the floor at least 5 times.

It's not funny.

I have seen too many in the same place and believe me, if you know or love them... It's far from funny.

It could have been me at one time.

And if I had you to cheer me on...

I would have probably still be eating burgers off the floor... Or I would be dead.

Don't get me wrong. I really love the majority of your show while you address politics and those involved in politics. But... Your statements on the weaknesses and foibles of those in the public eye demeans you.

I guess I take this personally because I have been Hasselhoff in this unfortunate moment... And it's no fun and nothing but a source of shame to me today.

You're being mean.

[JVS]

1. Wasn't that footage from a year or so ago?

[Dawggie]

2. Yes. And he just played it again five minutes ago. n/t

[JVS]

3. I think he should let it drop.

[Dawggie]

4. Obviously I agree with you...

But it's an easily acepted bias against a disease.

Those who have never had it in their face find it comforting to feel so far above it all.

[SammyWinstonJack]

17. Some people don't have a clue and obviously here, KO doesn't.

Sad really.

[Dawggie]

21. No, I'm afraid he does not. But in his defense...

He may have never been exposed to such a thing first hand.

It's a nasty insidious disease that has to hit home to become real. As is any substance abuse problem.

For instance, Crack addiction is not what the Comedy Channel pipes out with Dave Chappelle's picture.

[sandnsea]

11. The year's most awkard moments

He played Baldwin's clip of yelling at his daughter, I don't remember the rest. Cheap thrills really.

[magellan]

47. 7 months. And KO was doing a wrap-up of embarrassing celeb moments. n/t

[EFerrari]

5. Alcoholism is hilarious until it's your mom or your kid

or, until it's you.

I hope Keith never has to learn that one.

[cherokeeprogressive]

36. It IS? Hilarious isn't how I'd describe the plight of who knows how many Native Americans. N/T

[Darth_Kitten]

57. Maybe some alcoholics need to be shamed a bit.......

it seems to take them YEARS to finally see themselves.

No, it's not funny, that I agree with, but people can CHOOSE to drink or choose not to. It's their call. And yes, I know all about the physical component of alcoholism, but people STILL have free will.

[riverdeep]

6. Well, speaking as a recovering alcoholic,

-forget that. Alcoholics, and addicts in general, do some really stupid and funny stuff. I'm laughing at it and that's that. Do I feel for them? Sure, in general. But I'm still going to laugh at their nonsense. I did some idiotic stuff that was hilarious to people around me. I don't expect them not to laugh. Think of it as part of the consequences of drinking.

Besides, it's Hasselhoff.

[Dawggie]

14. Likewise...

There's a pic of me on a couch passed out that's thirty years old. It keeps coming up every couple of years as being a source of amusement.

I don't get many laughs out of it.

[FloridaJudy]

51. Yeah. I saw that video

As an object lesson on exactly why I quit drinking.

[Darth_Kitten]

58. Yeah, in my home it was a child having their arm broken......

by a stinking alcoholic and not being able to do or say anything about it.
(this happened to my sister)

A quarter century later I still have moments of rage and shame because I couldn't stop this and I WANTED to, desperately. Also, watching "Dad" passed on in the washroom was just PEACHY. I loved my Mom always making excuses for the lout.

I also loved being continuously "grounded" for weeks on end because one of "his" kids did something wrong (yeah, I know, weird), or I talked back to the drunk.

Yes, I love the effect of alcoholism.

[Elidor]

83. Well said.

There will always be differences of opinion on what's funny and what's not, but it's presumptuous to expect everyone else to bow to one's own tastes.

[NNN0LHI]

7. Good post Dawggie

You are right on this one.

Don

[Dawggie]

16. Thanks, Don.

I have been enjoying your posts for quite some time.

Peace.

[SoxFan]

8. I know this is heresy, but...

Keith is a sanctimonious, mean-spirited, self-righteous prick.

[petgoat]

10. Yeah but he's OUR sanctimonious, mean-spirited, self-righteous prick. nt

[A-Schwarzenegger]

12. I'm telling!

He does have a bit of a perverse, sadistic side.

[JVS]

13. Convene the DU inquisition!

[SoxFan]

20. Hey, I didn't care for him before he went political

He annoyed the hell out of me on ESPN, and his schtick on Sunday Night Football grates on my nerves.

of course, his incessant Patriots-bashing doesn't help!

[cherokeeprogressive]

38. He sucked as a sportscaster in L.A.

I want scores, not editorials.

[hfojvt]

53. I know this is heresy

but the DU inquisition is a bunch of sanctimonious, self righteous, mean-spirited pricks


Wait, does it still take one to know one?

[SammyWinstonJack]

19. At times, he can be. But he redeems himself with his "special comments".

[Beetwasher]

73. You Say That As If It's A Bad Thing

n/t

[sandnsea]

9. Harmful consequences

That's what it takes to get anybody sober. Nick Nolte will always be remembered for his drunken image. That's life.

[Darth_Kitten]

60. The Hoff had a relapse since that video was made........

apparently it wasn't the "rock bottom" he needed. :eyes:

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

15. It's always mean to make fun of people suffering from a serious disease.

In our country, being mean is being funny, though,...sadly.

[noamnety]

18. those in the public eye

yep. That portion of the show has caused me to lose respect for him. It's not just the issue with alcoholism, he also can be extremely nasty about women (laughing at how fat Spears was on some award show - when she was actually a very healthy weight, not overweight at all), running captions like "a slut and battery" instead of assault and battery, making fun of how women look when they aren't even celebrities, but they happen to be in the news for one reason or another.

I still watch the beginning of his show sometimes, but the end is such a turn-off for me that I find myself watching in disgust as often as not if I do make it to the end. I used to be a huge fan, and I recommended him to a lot of people. I've stopped doing that. His ratings are still going up, I'm sure, it's not like my not recommending him has any effect on his life, but it's discouraging to start recognizing these patterns in people I want to look up to.

[Dawggie]

25. I really hope that MSnBC will realise this. n/t

[Raine]

28. I also find his amusement at animals

in peril so repulsive and disgusting that I can't stand to watch him any longer.

Edit: changed one word.

[bbgrunt]

50. I've noticed that too. It turns my stomach--along with the

whole second half of the show. I turn it off after the first 20 minutes.

[HuskerDU]

22. I agree with you. I LUV Keith, but can't stand it when anybody

makes fun of people. It's just so unnecessary. Too many Americans are Nelson from the Simpsons.

[Dawggie]

23. I understand, he used to apoligize for reporting on such crap.

Mebbe he has been pushed? Maybe threads like this can help him get back to center?

Dunno.

[jhain]

24. I left the room

ok, ok.. I 'get' the fact that the producers force plenty of this mainstream Brittany type pathetic crap ...But, come on.
KO truly IS better than this.

[Raine]

26. Agree, often OK's snarkiness

really pisses me off, he also seems to get a kick out of stories that have animal cruelty in them too. :-(

[EFerrari]

31. I had to stop watching after that two headed kitten story.

That was my limit. It was told with something like glee. Keith is great on political stuff. Not so good on social stuff.

[UTUSN]

27. I think it's a metaphor for Shrub n/t

[aikoaiko]

29. yeah, but it was ridiculous behavior -

Hasselhoff chose to indulge his disease instead of resisting the urges and he acted like a fool in front of his children.

[EFerrari]

30. How many people do you know that "choose to indulge their disease"?

Huh?

Sure, there is some value in not taking yourself seriously. But that whole "indulging your disease" idea is simply not true. Any more than you would "indulge" cancer or diabetes.

[aikoaiko]

32. People can feel compelled to act certain ways for lots of reasons, people still have choices.

even if they are hard choices.

There are lots of psychological disorders where people feel compelled, but that's not the same as saying they had no choice but to act a certain way.

[Olney Blue]

33. Are you saying that Bush is Pro Choice?

[EFerrari]

34. The fact that people have choices doesn't mitigate the fact of their illness.

We all have choices until the moment when we don't because we're dead.

That's not the same as being healthy enough to make good ones.

[aikoaiko]

35. Good mental health is not a requirement for making good choices.

I can see where you're going with this -- some people like to coddle and some don't.

If Hasslehorf is an alcoholic, he probably had no choice in being so, but he does have choices in whether or not to drink and even when drinking he has choices of how he will behave.

And, back on topic, those choices when ridiculous are rightfully ridiculed.

[EFerrari]

37. Good mental health isn't a requirement for making good choices?

Coddling?

Holy cow. Good luck to your friends and family. And, to you.

[aikoaiko]

40. Good here's to hoping your friends, family, and you make good choices.

regardless of illnesses, disorders, or propensities.

;)

[Kajsa]

62. It's hard to make "good choices"

when you're in a blackout.

[aikoaiko]

70. Actually maybe not.

Blackouts are more about memory than anything else. There is not much different about being very drunk drunk and being very drunk and in a blackout except for the lack of memory.

But drunks like to use blackout as excuses for their poor choices.

[Kajsa]

74. Look, it's not a question of control.

Alcoholics have an allergic reaction coupled
with a physical compulsion to drink alcohol.

One drink is too many,
and a thousand not enough.

A blackout occurs in a person who should
have passed out and didn't.

Lights are on, but no one is home.

There is complete amnesia in a blackout.

[aikoaiko]

78. Those are mostly AA slogans with little scientific backing.

The only thing that was close was "There is complete amnesia AFTER a blackout".

Don't get me wrong --- I like AA with its folksy spirituality and fellowship because it helps lots people make good choices even if they suffer from alcoholism.

When drinkers are in blackouts they can't remember later, but when they are in the blackout their behavior is not really different from when they are drunk and do remember their behavior later.

In other words, there is still someone home -- just a drunk someone.

[Kajsa]

81. You seem to be familiar with AA.

I don't know what scientific backing you have,
or even claim to have.

I do know when someone doesn't want to understand,
versus can't understand.

You are in the first group.

I'm done here.

[aikoaiko]

82. You say I don't want to understand, but maybe I only wish to understand more than you do.

;)

[Darth_Kitten]

59. They still have free will.........

they still make the call to drink. I'll have to disagree with you slightly here, sfex. :)

[EFerrari]

77. That's cool. My small point is, people who are ill often make

really, really bad choices.

[progressivebydesign]

39. Yahoo had that video all over the place yesterday as web videos of the year. n/t

[frogmarch]

41. I cringed at the Hasselhoff video clip

and I wondered why KO played it - and the Baldwin phone call. I still don't know why, but I didn't like it that he did.

I also don't like most of the animal stuff he shows.

I wish Keith would stick to politics. I hang on every word.

[ShaneGR]

42. Alcoholism is a disease.....

And showing video of people suffering from it is exactly the same as showing someone with cancer dying and laughing about it.... just my opinion. I like Keith too, but substance abuse in all forms is not funny, it's sad, and I wish all people understood the problem.

[Darth_Kitten]

56. Thing about alcoholics I don't get.........

is why degrading/humiliating/abusing your spouse's children never is the "rock bottom" they need to get their lives in order?

Sorry, I've grown up in this kind of environment, and this is not directed at you, but I'm pretty tired of all the sympathy for alcoholics and not the innocent people whose lives they damage.

[OzarkDem]

66. No, you deserve even more sympathy and support

family and friends are innocent victims. I hope you're getting some help in dealing with it.

[Darth_Kitten]

67. oh, it's residual resentment that will never go away........

thing is, the former alcoholics "move on", but the victims of alcoholics NEVER forget. Why should they, their whole lives were changed. Some really sick things I can never erase from my memory. :(

I'm not the only person who feels this way, I'm pretty sure. The resentment comes to the surface every now and again.

It's probably politically correct to say the alcoholic has sobered up and moved on, so why can't we all just forgive and forget. Nope, doesn't work that way.........I don't have to feel anything that's not right for me. :(

[EFerrari]

80. It really doesn't work that way, you're right.

I wrestled with that resentment for so many years. I wanted my childhood back. It would have been nice to have been a kid for more than a minute.

I think what helped me was to realize that my whole family suffered the same thing, just in different roles. My mom and my little brother both went through the same thing, just playing different parts. I remember one day, about ten years after it was over, I said, "I'm so proud of us for never giving up on us." And we all cried and realized that was true, and that we had made it through so much pain and danger. Geezus, we're still here.

It's not an insight that can be forced on the family, that's for sure. I hated my mother for many, many years before I got it. And I mean, hated -- even though that emotion is toxic and uncomfortable and horrible. I guess I should just be grateful I finally was able to see my way beyond it. To put it down and know, we each of us did what we could do and, that that is not bad, not bad at all. fwiw.

[EFerrari]

79. There has to be a balance. I grew up in it, too.

My mom used to talk to the heater when I was eleven and struggling to keep track of my 5 yr old brother.

Ridicule isn't very helpful. It just triggers shame and shame triggers drinking. :shrug:

And you might want to consider that probably no alcoholic ever asked to become an alcoholic. They started out "innocent", too. I know my mom did. She would never have purposely done anything to hurt me or my brother, ever. And she did, for years. But then, so did this culture. Once, my high school principle, counselor AND my Spanish teacher drove me home in response to a neighbor's call. They patted me on the back and drove off when they saw Mom, drunk and mostly helpless on the livingroom floor. They told me I was a good daughter and then, they split as fast as they could.

Imho, the only way to deal with this shit is with love, consistency and honesty. "Tough love" works for about a minute until the alcoholic is overcome with pain or shame and then, they're off again. It just doesn't work over time.

Btw, my mom has been sober for over 30 years now. She's so beautiful and my brother and I adore her. Cheers.

:)

[Dawggie]

86. It's sad, but the "rock bottom" that so many treatment paradigms speak of

is an early death.

I'm not making excuses for drunks in this thread, I'm just pointing out that I find it uncomfortable to watch a person who has ingested something they shouldn't have behave the fool.


Peace.

[Kajsa]

64. Thank you, Shane.

That's the main point i wanted to make.

You said it first.

:-)

[OzarkDem]

I agree

I've never personally known anyone with as severe a problem as Hasselhoff's (though I suspect I may have worked with a few) but it must be absolute hell for the person and their family. There's nothing to be gained by exploiting it for humor.

[aikoaiko]

72. I think its more like someone with emphysema but keeps smoking 2+ packs a day.

Its not about the disease, its about the choices of behavior one makes with the disease and how they make others suffer from those choices.

[lumberjack_jeff]

85. I'm not sure that's a good example.

An emphysema sufferer will still require oxygen even if (s)he doesn't smoke.

An alcoholic will only eat burgers off the floor when they've chosen to drink.

[lumberjack_jeff]

84. Alcoholism is a disease. Being a drunk is not.

Alcoholism is the only disease I'm aware of that one can choose to manifest symptoms.

Is it in bad taste to ridicule people who drink to excess? Maybe.

[LiberalHeart]

43. Reminds me of the Nyquil TV commercial making fun of blindness.

I get a sick feeling every time I hear it, and it's on a lot. I have three family members who are blind and have to wonder what the hell Proctor & Gamble thinks is so funny about being blind.

[seabeyond]

44. well, i cannot stand watching drunks. maybe it is because i have so many family members i love

who i have watched, behave in the drunken stupor. i saw that piece a while ago and didnt make it thru it all. as soon as i realized what it was, i turned the channel. i am with. i do not find it entertaining.

[OwnedByFerrets]

45. Jesus, freaking christ.....he is the ONLY voice we have

telling the truth about whats really happening in this illegal administration (at least in a medium that the masses have a friggin chance of seeing) and you want to jump on him for something his superiors prob forced him into showing????
Give the man the fucking break he deserves. He certainly wont and doesnt get it from the fucking idiots on the right.
:rant:

[smalll]

46. LEAVE ... HASSLEHOFF ... ALONE!!!111

[blitzen]

48. In other words, Don't Hassle the Hoff!11!1

[magellan]

49. Mean?

His daughter took that video. How much did SHE have to go through because of his self-abuse before she decided to film him?

I wish digital video had been widely available when my mother behaved as Hasselhoff did. Maybe showing her how stupid and mean a drunk SHE was would have kept her from DYING from alcoholism.

[xchrom]

52. it was awful to watch the first time. nt

[drbtg1]

54. Perhaps the show could have ended with a mini special comment

Perhaps noting the people featured make a living by celebrity and that, while those that play with fire sometimes get burned, ultimately we hope the negative celebrity will help them get the wisdom to move forward.

But in Paris's and Britney's cases, somehow I doubt it. SEE YOU TWO IN THE NUMBER ONE SEGMENT IN '08! ;)

[in_cog_ni_to]

55. I must say, I find that distasteful too. I wish he'd lay off Brittany AND Hasselhoff.

Alcoholism is nothing to "joke" about.:(

[lonestarnot]

61. Nope, I'd rather watch Hasselhock hock his pants or puke than be assaulted with the orange suit with

water in his face one more time.

[Berry Cool]

63. I'm not sure why he ran this other than to say

"This is some scary celebrity stuff that happened this past year. Don't let it happen to you."

I don't think he thinks it's necessarily all funny.

And he lacks no sympathy or understanding for alcoholics. He's spoken about alcoholics and other addicts and their issues many times when he's been on Dan Patrick's old ESPN radio show, because so many athletes have those problems and it gets in the news. When he's done so, he's spoken with great insight and understanding into the nature of addiction. And he's said he's had relatives who have dealt with it, so he knows what he's talking about.

If people want to think "Keith is a sanctimonious, mean-spirited, self-righteous prick" or "perverse" or "sadistic" just because he runs this, that's their choice. If they want to throw out the baby with the bath water by swearing off him because of something he said or did that made them decide he was too evil to watch anymore, that's their decision. But I think they're projecting an awful lot more than they see, and ignoring what they don't know about. Is he perfect? No. Is he to everyone's taste? No. But his value as a truth-teller to me outweighs everything else.

Personally, I'm with those who find "the DU inquisition is a bunch of sanctimonious, self righteous, mean-spirited pricks." I'm tired of hearing about how much KO "hates women," just because he made fun of some trashy celebrity like Paris or Britney for their behavior. (By the way, he never "laughed at Spears for being fat.") It's not their gender he's ridiculing...it's their behavior. He'd make fun of it in a man, too...and does.

As for animals, he never shows footage of animals being permanently injured or killed. He wouldn't find it funny. Otherwise, he finds that goofy things that happen to animals are as funny as when they happen to people. It's not "animal cruelty." It's bloopers. He showed the two-headed kitten story because it was news...a blooper of nature. I sensed no glee in him whatsoever. I think he was amused by the way the little boy in the family it was born to was handling all the media attention, not the plight of the cat.

You know what footage I once wished he'd stop running? The stupid fake video of the guy who was supposed to look like Silvio Berlusconi supposedly walking up to a meter maid leaning over a car and pretending to plug her from the rear. He played it over and over and seemed to find it hilarious. I didn't find it funny at all and wrote the show several times to say so, but he kept playing it, even after he found out it wasn't Berlusconi. That was MY big gripe with him, until he stopped playing it. If I ever met him in person I'd still tell him off for that one. I'd tell him that women who have been trapped by a strange man grinding his groin into them in public while fully clothed really don't appreciate the constant reminder of what it feels like.

Also, while I don't think he hates women like some people like to think, I do think he sometimes makes the sorry mistake of judging their intelligence and virtue on the basis of their looks. But that's something society teaches us all to do from our early days. "Only bad witches are ugly," as they say in The Wizard of Oz. Eventually that translates to: "If a woman is pretty, she must be good--even if she's not smart. If she is ugly, she must be bad."

Should he know better than to judge at least some women by their looks? Should he know better than to laugh at a strange man grinding himself into a woman in public even when it's a staged video? Yes. But would it make me stop watching his show or failing to appreciate him for all the good he does? No.

[Giant Robot]

75. Thank you n/t

[noamnety]

87. You're mistaken about his attitude toward women.

He made a point of quoting a review of spears that said she "jiggled like jello." He was joining in laughing at his guest's review - "who hired the fat girl" "we can rule out dietician."

And there were his comments, nonstop at the time, about the runaway bride, and the comments seemed to have as much to do with her face/eyes than any behavior he did or didn't approve of.

It's possible you haven't seen or noticed it, but he absolutely makes fun of women's looks in a very sexist way.

[Kajsa]

65. Thank you, Dawggie.

Great post!- my sentiments, exactly.

Welcome to DU :hi:

-from one who has been there.

:pals:

[Bjorn Against]

68. I love Olbermann because I only see him on YouTube

I don't have cable so it has been about four years since I saw his show from beginning to end, I only see the clips that are posted on YouTube which tend to be excellent. I don't ever see this mean spirited stuff that I hear people talk about, but if he really is making fun of people or animals in really horrible situations then I can't condone that. I have no clue what the deal is with the David Hasselhoff thing because I did not even know he was a alcoholic. I try not to keep up on celebrity gossip if I can help it.

[zanne]

69. Excellent post, Dawggie....

I agree with you 100%. (And I know exactly what you mean).

[bunkerbuster1]

71. Didn't bother me as much as Larry Craig's wife/family onscreen

as a "B" reel while they were chatting about Republican scandals.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I think it's cruel to splash Senator Widestance's family on screen for no reason.

I know there probably wasn't any malice aforethought there; it was just stock footage, but still.

[Forkboy]

76. I can't comment because Shemp is my favorite Stooge.