Teaching creationism

[hyphenate]

First of all, I want to say that I despise creationism as a stupid and idiotic explanation. It is akin to every myth from any civilization before science shed light on the true beginnings of mankind on planet earth. There is little to distinguish the fundie version of creation from the Greco-Roman writings. And anyone who seriously believes in creation from the fundie viewpoint should have their head examined.

Now, having said that, I've been thinking about this for awhile, and have come to the conclusion that I believe creationism should be, at the very least, touched upon for senior high school students in any philosophy or humanistic classes they might be in.

Let's face it--those of us who believe in evolution or those who simply have reserved judgement on the subject have learned over the course of our years what we feel is the more logical reasoning of the descent of Man. There is little to nothing to support the tenets behind creationism, and even less to rely on as to the age of earth and all the wonderfully fanciful tales the fundies have invented to keep their beliefs alive.

But teaching creation to a senior high school student is hardly risky. If a child has been raised in a public school, is of an age where they are capable of thinking for themselves, and have been taught critical thinking or the basis of logic, they are quite able to decide for themselves the truth. And if it is handled in a manner consistent with letting them make their own decisions, and if we, as parents, teachers, and other adults in their lives are confident with our own choices and beliefs, they will choose wisely and reject the illogical, the absurd and the utterly laughable mythology of creationism.

We KNOW we are right, don't we? We know that the inerrancy of the fundie bible is so full of holes as to prove a sieve instead of a cup of wisdom, and we know that forcing religion down someone's throat is hardly a measure for doing good in this world. We know that fundies are, if nothing else, as hypocritical as human beings can get on the fact of planet earth, and we KNOW that those who first said the world was round were accused of heresy by their peers. But like every other figure in history, the heretics of yesterday proved to have the last word on the subject of their passion, and Darwin will be held up to the light of the ages and shown to be irrefutably correct.

I say we can show them how laughable creationism is. In the process, they will be able to see how some people actually think, and they will be able to arm themselves for a fight they hopefully will never have to fight, but understand what the non-scientific and non-reasoning population believes. They will need that as a weapon someday if the fundies ever try to lead us down the path to armageddon before it's a done deal.

[DFW]

1. It belongs with other popular mytholigies of their eras

The Greek/Roman gods of Olympus, the Norse tales of Valhallah, Islaam's 72 virgins for fallen warriors, the Happy Hunting Ground of the Northern Americans, or the legends of the Nahuatl, the Maya or the Quechua, or the folklore of the Australian Aborigine.

If you're gonna teach it, tell what it is straight out, and accord it equal time with the others.

[hyphenate]

8. That's the point

That's what it deserves--to be placed within that pack of mythology, and nothing more.

[TheUniverse]

16. Yes, and that would make an interesting class.

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. Exactly. Leave it with comparitive religion, not in the science curriculum

[Kajsa]

23. I second that.

n/t

[dog_lovin_dem]

20. I studied the Christian creation myth,

as well as those of the Navajo, Aborigine, Hindu, Buddhist, etc., in a required English elective course (Myth and Culture) for my undergrad degree. This class, along with a history class focusing on religion and science, was one of the most interesting I had during my years of education.

[kimmylavin]

2. I studied the bible in a public high school.

In a LITERATURE class.
That's where it should stay.

The philosophy angle is interesting, only if creationism is taught as a very old, very uneducated answer to the question "Where did we come from?"

However, I think that giving ANY on this issue right now would just be another of those slippery slopes... and the Repubs love to ride those suckers all the way to the bottom.

[hyphenate]

9. Yeah, that "inch" might lead

to the proverbial mile, but if young people, from the 14-18 years range, are better equipt to deal with creationism when they are old enough to regard it as bunk, they will likely reject it, or at the very least, see it as something unappealing. I would hope that they would--if they aren't capable of separating the fact from the fiction, they deserve to work at McDonalds or Burger King, don't you think? ;)

[Whisp]

14. I studied it as well.

nice paper. amazing paper.

thin.

[Kajsa]

24. I also studied the bible in public high school.

The class was " The Bible as Literature".

This was back in 1967.

[Jim__]

3. If you think we have a problem with "creation science" and intelligent design

in our science classes now, try teaching creationism as a myth. The same people who try to push it as science, would be all over the schools if it was taught as a myth.

[IntravenousDemilo]

4. Yeah!

Bring 'em on!

[teamster633]

7. So true.

Even presentation in a comparative religion course wouldn't satisfy the majority of the fundies since obviously, only their religion is right.

[hyphenate]

10. At this time,

most states with large populations won't have anything to do with creationism or ID in the public school system, it is solely in the realm of smaller, "bible-belt" states. (from what I know) If we can't call the bluff of the religious right and present creationism as the myth that it is, we're running scared, and allowing them to hold our own beliefs over our heads. For too long now, we have allowed them to gain strength, gain momentum and make us look like we're the ones who don't want the truth to be "known." How long will we keep our mouths shut and let them perpetuate their lies and innuendoes? It's only when we play "chicken" with them and make them divert from their bullying that we can have a chance to make it perfectly clear that we can stare them down a lot easier than they thought.

[mudesi]

5. Let's teach that Earth is flat, on top of an infinite stack of turtles....

See how your idea falls flat on its face?

[msongs]

6. doh everybody knows the flat earth is ON TOP of the turtles! nt

[hyphenate]

11. Actually

I thought Atlas was still holding us up. But then, I might be behind a couple millennia now. :)

[Toots]

25. I think he got demoted and now has to hold up the turtles.

And they do know how to deficate....

[damntexdem]

12. Philosophy class and so on -- that's fine.

But the Creos want it in SCIENCE class. There it has no place, whether it's young (YEC) or old (OEC) Creationism, Intelligent Design, or "teach the controversy" that does not exist in science.

[hyphenate]

15. I wholeheartedly agree

with you, which is why I think it's nothing but bunk in the area of science, but that it could be taught in philosophy or humanistic course. However, you are correct--the fundies want it in the science class and I swear I would die rather than let that happen in my lifetime. However, I also live in Massachusetts, which is hardly a bastion of the fundies and that 99.9% of the politicians in my state (and even in California where I lived for 15 years) would also agree with me.

I have heard many supposedly wise people saying that the fundamentalists will disappear within 50 years, but we have been plagued with them before, and we will be plagued with them again and again as they gain power, lose it, regain it clandestinely, and the cycle will repeat until every last possible adherent is wiped out of memory. And that's not going to happen until religion itself can be removed from the human existence, which probably will happen......never.

:shrug: It sucks. But until our country kicks their ass instead of kissing it, the religious right is a stain on the face of our country.

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. But it's really a minor part of mythology, that's all

It can be accurately expressed in one sentence: "God created everything, because the Bible says so". Intellectually, it's so sparse that it's not worth spending more than a minute on. Now, lots of other things early in the Bible do have important philosophical meanings - the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, original sin, "am I my brother's keeper", things like that. But the biblical story of creation has as much philosophical import as a knock-knock joke.

[hyphenate]

28. Even many of those points

could be found in Jewish culture even then. I would rather follow the "Golden Rule" in principle than the bible, because it sums up how we need to act in social intercourse. It's far simpler to break down the 10 commandments and package them in one secular package--even the stupidest or least educated (at any rate) person can get it that you just need to behave toward all others as you would like them to treat you. That covers just about every culture on earth--local and tribal customs be damned. And of course, it's within that rule where we can actually find people who contradict it--they believe for some reason that they are above that law of nature, and that's one of the main reasons that mutual respect is unheard of in the fundie community. It really is that simple. When I was growing up, we were taught to be polite and treat everyone well--whether I became secular or not, the rule still applies. For many fundies. their "principles" are based in their religion, and they seem to believe that if they are no longer "Xtians" they no longer have the ethical responsibility to treat everyone on the same level.

[Igel]

13. Which kind of creationism.

I've run into young-earth and old-earth varieties, creationisms that were fully compatible with evolution and those that were post-hoc accretions on evolutionary theory, creationisms that claimed to use science to undermine evolution's claims and those that claimed that science simply couldn't speak to the issue.

Just presenting what each one says and the assumptions behind them would take a few weeks. Moreover, it would involve teaching, to some extent, all the various forms, which means essentially teaching church doctrines. I seem to recall a First Amendment issue, unless it's all covered in some sort of comparative religions class--then it's spending a disproportionate amount of time on it, possibly with the intent to belittle. Probably not a good idea, that last bit.

Note 1: My girlfriend in high school was a fervent old-earth creationism believer; I wasn't. She did much better on the biology units that dealt with evolution than I did. And she was smart enough to keep it mostly to herself--both her creationist views, and the fact that she aced the tests and quizzes ... either would have given grounds for those more enlightened than her, but probably stupider, to make fun of her.

Note 2: In college my 2nd-year roomie sort of knew a creationist--a young-earther, non-guided evolution--in a biology grad program. He had no problem any of the courses and was on-target for his PhD in just under 6 years. Some sort of comparative cellular research was the guy's thesis, something deeply grounded in evolutionary genetics, but he had no problem "reading into" the key points of evolutionary genetics and cell morphology something that he considered to be "biblical", with some sort of a biunique relation between his internal language and the language his advisors expected. It freaked out my roomie's brother, who simply couldn't understand how that was possible; he was in some biology program at UC-Davis--he thought the guy should simply have been dropped from the program. But it was possible, the guy apparently graduated with no greater problem than any other grad student; his advisor never knew, I'm guessing, my roomie only got the info from a friend who knew the creationist from his undergrad Campus Crusade for Christ days and stayed in touch; they'd gotten together during break, but my roomie didn't know the guy's "creationist leanings" until grad school, just that he was constantly trying to convert him from Reformed Judaism to whatever CCC is. It came up because a guy in my roomie's grad program was an old-earth creationist and my roomie thought this was somehow fraudulent; then again, astronomy doesn't crucially involve biological evolution, and he did accept guided evolution.

In other words ... they're everywhere.

[hyphenate]

17. The "old-earth" creationists

are often in tune with Catholicism, which believes that evolution is the means that "God" used to begin our civilization. They have no qualms with such thoughts, and often do excel in biological studies because evolution is not in conflict with the old-earth thoughts.

It is the "new-earth" creationists who are the major problem, who believe in the literal translation of the bible as "god's word" without any kind of straying from that path--in other words, it is their contention that time is measured to a time somewhere between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago, when their "god" came along and begat Adam and Eve, set them up in their own crib and waited and watched until "Satan" came along and had them sin, and they were kicked out of the crib and had to fend for themselves. By "measuring" the length of a generation, they have made that their calculation of the age of the earth and everything in it. Nevermind that skeletons of dinosaurs and fossils show a carbon date of millions of years--they believe that the devil planted that stuff on earth to "test them" and if they believed the scientific age of the world, they will have sinned and they will be sent to hell.

One of my best friends turned from a teacher to a fundie, and I swear she went from a logically minded person into a raving lunatic in about 6 months, and I finally had enough of her shit. It was very sad to see that happen, and I continue to be appalled at the rapid decline of intelligence in those people who turn from common sense into the cult of fundamentalism.

If these people were capable of reconciling their beliefs with scientific reality it would be one thing--instead, the fundies of the world want to change everything to their liking and god be damned with everyone but them and their beliefs.

[provis99]

19. Shouldn't we restrict high school to teaching quality stuff?

I mean, creationism is crap no matter what angle you look at it. Of course, as science, its completely fraudulent, but even if you look at it as philosophy, or literature, or mythology, it fails miserably in all those categories, too. I had to read enough crap in high school (including that "Bible as Literature" nonsense the fundies snuck in); I wouldn't suggest shoveling more shit at the students is going to make things any better.

[hyphenate]

31. I agree to a degree

but I honestly believe that fundies are actually a danger to our country, and young people need to be armed with the best weapon they've got--knowledge. If we can instill the proper skills in the young people in this country, raise them from the bog-down that exists for them with science and mathematics, we can hope that they will be able to quash the mind control which grips so many people right now as part of the fundie cult. If we offer them that choice: some small level of perceived security versus the capability of choosing for themselves and free will, we can only hope that choice and free will win in the end.

I have had some concerns for a while now in regard to overall school experiences because of my nephews and nieces, none of which seems to have had the same in-depth kind of educational background I myself went through. However, I have been pleased to say that all four (so far) have managed to avoid being sucked into that religious excrement that sometimes manages to infiltrate some schools. For that alone, I am grateful.

[Dorian Gray]

22. How are you supposed to teach it, though?

"God created the earth 6000 years ago. Read Genesis for homework."

Lesson done.

[Bigmack]

29. No! Examine each of the beliefs...

and claims carefully.... in detail.

As a 30-year HS history teacher, I can tell you that juniors and seniors in HS have an enormous reservoir of skepticism and cynicism. Any close examination of that fundie bullshit would bring classroom discussions that would end this creationism shit fast!

I can only imagine some of my seniors being asked to compare carbon-dating with the "dinosaurs walked with people" idea.

[hyphenate]

32. I agree with that

As I mentioned above in a post, my nieces and nephews managed to have a modicum of good sense in that area, however they were raised in L.A. and Las Vegas, so perhaps their ability to call creationism bunk might stem from the educational systems in those areas being far more capable of labelling creationism crap. ;)

[cgrindley]

26. Nonsense... it should not be taught, only ridiculed

and ridiculed mercilessly. Even mentioning it in a public school should be a crime punishable by imprisonment. Religion needs to be eliminated from society once and for all.

[Kajsa]

27. Wow- now that's

really progressive thinking.

:sarcasm:

[cgrindley]

36. Religion by definition is NOT progressive

it's reactionary. It's about high time that we stopped pretending that progressivism and religion are compatible. They are not.

[hyphenate]

37. I do agree

but as long as there are people who are unable to understand scientific explanations, there will be some form of religion. But as progressives, we need to overlook the beliefs of the majority of people for that reason. It's only when religion takes a political stance like the current incarnation of the religious right that we should react. They become dangerous when they have such radical and fanatical views and try to push their beliefs on the rest of the country. I do believe in their right to believe in whatever they wish to believe--it's only when they try to make the rest of us follow them in their extreme viewpoint that I protest.

[hyphenate]

33. Ridicule

won't work--creationists will employ an attitude as being the victim of persecution, and will gain sympathy instead of derision, allowing them even more reasons to place themselves as the favored faith, since JC was so persecuted 2000 years ago. We need to break that perception and deal with fundies in such a way that it doesn't backfire on secular practices and principles. As it stands right now, every single time a Circuit judge makes a decision in their favor, it makes it more difficult in the end to remove such shit from a school curriculum. Only by getting the truth out there and remove the antagonism which can often be the factor that leads to a court case can we be reasonably sure that they won't win.

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. But, as you say, it is ridiculous

It would be impossible to teach the biblical creation story as if it was real, to even half-educated children, without them bursting out in laughter. You can't forbid them from thinking about it, and they will find it ridiculous. It's rather demeaning to teachers to expect them to keep a straight face when the children see the story is absurd.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

30. If it needs to be taught, get the questions added

to the standard tests. Under NoChildLeftBehind, if it's on the test, it's taught. If it's not on the test, it's ignored.

[hyphenate]

35. I sorely wish

that NCLB will get scrubbed completely. Anything to do with GWB, even when he was a governor, is just wrong.