Death threats given to teen who turned in teacher that was proselytizing in class

[LynneSin]

You just have to love the 'Christian Values' when people threaten a student because the student turns in a teacher for doing something illegal

http://www.rawstory.com//news/2007/High_school_student_finds_allies_in_0220.html

After student raises ire over teacher telling class disbelievers 'going to hell,' he faces death threats RAW STORY
Published: Tuesday February 20, 2007

A New Jersey student enmeshed in a classroom dispute over religion is attracting allies in his defense, The New York Times reports.

Matthew LaClair, a 16-year-old junior at Kearny High School, "drew some legal heavyweights into his battle with school officials over a teacher's proselytizing in class," writes Patrick McGeehan for the Times.

Representatives from the American Civil Liberties Union and the People for the American Way Foundation, along with a Manhattan law firm partner, stood with LaClair "as he and his family threatened to sue the Kearny Board of Education if their complaints are not resolved," McGeehan says.

LaClair taped a teacher of his saying to students in a history class "that if they do not believe that Jesus died for their sins, they 'belong in hell,'" writes McGeehan.

On the same recordings, the article continues, the teacher is heard telling the students "that there were dinosaurs aboard Noah's ark and that there is no scientific basis for evolution or the Big Bang theory of the origin of the universe."

LaClair has reportedly been "the target of harassment and a death threat from fellow students and 'retaliation' by school officials who have treated him, not the teacher, as the problem," McGeehan says.

[youngdem]

1. Because that is the Christian way

(unsure if I should use sarcastic tag)

[Solo_in_MD]

19. Its not the Xtian way, its the educrat way

Any student who stands up to the school over anything will get pushed down hard. Its not just religion, it can be ADA, or bigotry, or any other complaint. Seen it time and again. Rock the boat and there will be consequences, even if the complaint is legitmate.

I have actually heard this behavior supported by administration and teachers saying that if they allowed themselves to be shown in wrong and apologize, even when they were indeed wrong, it would set a precedent that would make it much harder to control the schools. This attitude has not changed from the 60s...

[cui bono]

55. Death threats and murder most definitely IS the RW christian way.

At least the American evangelical variety of christianity. I don't think school admins are giving students death threats and sniping them dead.

[Solo_in_MD]

83. I would like to see the provenace of some of the threats

...lawyers are often loose with facts and big on hyperbole. IME death threats and murder are more of a Sharia thing.


Challenging the school for any reason makes you a target. BTDT, even when I was a teacher. Its that speaking truth to power thing.

[donco6]

114. We would never support this behavior here.

Maybe somewhere else, but that teacher would be disciplined if he were here. In fact, we've done this very thing with a teacher who pressured kids to go to church.

I love how you consistently paint all schools with your broad brush.

[ClintonTyree]

2. It's the christian thing to do, after all.

:eyes: What scares me most is that these people don't see the hypocrisy of their actions. They think that the lord would want them to act this way. :banghead:

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tempest]

5. Boy, you sure were off-base

The post had nothing to do with the teacher's actions and everything to do with the hypocritical reaction by so-called Christian followers.

Death threats indeed.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. No, I Wasn't Off Base.

The poster is using isolated incidents as wholesale broadbrush smears against christians in general due to a seeming nature of hatred and bigotry towards them. Just because a handful of whackos gave threats doesn't mean that 'Christians' are hypocrites blah blah blah. It is just a typical bigoted and ignorant reply from those who seek to smear those who believe in religion any chance they get. It is an ignorant and disgraceful tactic used here sometimes.

And I know full well what the poster was talking about. I said the teacher comment kinda as an aside reply about the OP itself, but do see how I kinda tied it in wrong and made it appear as though it was his actions only that triggered the posters bigotry. It was the incident itself, and I meant the incident as a whole. Either way, the poster just couldn't wait to get their little 'christianity' bigoted pot shot in, so that is what I responded to.

I can't stand people that feel the need to attack others beliefs every chance they get just cause they don't believe those things themselves. It's so pathetic.

[Jonathan50]

15. Quoth Jesus the Christ:

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. You Have Not Made Any Point There.

First of all, I'm not a christian.

Second of all, even regardless, I never wished the poster any ill. God bless them, God bless us all.

Third of all, none of what you posted goes against the concept of trying to make someone aware to their bigoted or ignorant behavior or defending against it.

So you really haven't made any point, though you did provide a good quote.

God bless ya for it LOL

[ChairmanAgnostic]

63. there is no god.

THAT'S THE BIGGEST PROBLEM.

this make believe fairy tale stuff does nothing but harm children, starting with that "history" "Teacher".

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

81. Maybe Not To You. But There Is To Far More Than You.

[Tempest]

39. Read his post and your response again

If you were not off-base, why did you bring the teacher up as an example of using a broad brush when the poster didn't say one word about the teacher?

It's funny how you didn't use the response to the student as an example, but used something totally off the mark.


Why can't people just admit when they are wrong?

[kestrel91316]

43. I think the only "christians" being "smeared" here are those of the

FUNDIE WHACKJOB CHRISTOFASCIST persuasion, who like to use their religious beliefs as a bludgeon.

This teacher was completely out of line, as were the people who attacked/threatened the student for complaining.

Keep your religion out of my school and I'll keep mine out of yours (you will perhaps recognize this as a variation on the "love thy neighbor as thyself" theme).

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

53. What Religion Are You?

Just curious as to what religion you are volunteering.

But yes, the teacher was beyond out of line, and those that attacked or threatened are even further out of line. Wackiest thing of all is that this isn't all that far away from me, and I had no idea any of it was happening.

[LynneSin]

7. As a Christian even I was not offended

These people are an embarassment to our faith and need to be outed. I don't even think they are true Christians but more like "Paulists" because Paul's philosphy was to 'convert them at whatever cost'. Paul was the first Evangelical Christian

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. Don't Care. Doesn't Make It Any Less Bigoted, Intolerant, Ignorant Or Disgraceful.

I agree with you that they aren't true christians, in a theoretical sense. But that's why I found that posters generalizations of them as such, just for sake of attacking christians, as distasteful.

[cui bono]

56. The OP doesn't attack all christians. He's attacking the actions of those

christians that made the death threats and calling them on their christianity. I don't see any reference to all christians.

[Dukkha]

57. not bigoted. not ignorant.

I have yet to see any so-called christian publicly condemn these evangelical freaks for their violent actions or their constant fascist dogmatic tendencies. it is the nature of many of them to turn a deaf ear to is all and give a fee pass because it's one of their own. If the real christians don't want to be lumped in with these evildoers then they better do more than merely ignore it. There is nothing but hate and intolerance from these people who think they can justify anything as "God's will"

so can your phone outrage and get of the cross. :eyes:

[ThomCat]

84. Funny, I don't remember you saying this

on threads where we're talking about bigotry against women, or gay people. It seems to me that you're often one of the people insisting that "it" (whatever it is on that particular thread) isn't bigotry, isn't serious, and that the people who are taking it seriously are wrong, wrong, wrong. As usual, whatever your position is must be absolutely right and everyone else is out of line.
:eyes:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

87. Because When It Comes To You, Most Of The Time It Is Exaggerated, Overdramatized,

or bigoted or sexist within itself. I defend against what is right, to the best of my ability. I'm just not an extremist when doing so like others are. (in spite of the fact that I did kinda betray that here, as I'm pretty sure now that I did over react. But regardless, I will always defend against bigotry, prejudice or sexism in any of its forms. Nice try though bub)

[ThomCat]

89. So I'm an extremist in defending against bigotry

but I'm also a bigot and a sexist? :rofl:

You're big on demanding proof of other people, so how about you put up or shut up. Show anyplace where I've been a bigot or a sexist.

:rofl:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Clearly, Clintontyree is going to hell for that.

:rofl:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

11. We Shouldn't Tolerate Bigotry And Ignorance.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. No.

But we shouldn't mistake obvious sarcasm for bigotry either.

That's just being ignorant.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

24. Bigotry Is Bigotry. And Sarcasm Don't Cut It.

It wasn't lighthearted sarcasm. It was bitter sarcasm with intent and blatant negative reference to Christianity as a whole.

I know for certain that there are many Christians on this board who get frustrated at constantly seeing these types of remarks as if Christianity itself is wacko.

Fact is, it didn't need to be said. The comment easily could've been limited to just those who were guilty of extremism. This type of broad brush generalization, even with tones of sarcasm, would never fly if in reference to women, gays, minorities, etc.. We shouldn't tolerate it towards christians either.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. Weren't you one of the people...

telling other people to lighten up over the Snickers commericial?

Fact is, what Clintontyee said was clearly sarcasm. No way in hell was it bigotry. You're misinterpreting it, and I think you're misinterpreting it on purpose.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. No, I Wasn't. So Get Your Facts Straight Pal.

And like I said, sarcasm don't cut it. It wasn't a lighthearted sarcasm, it was a bitter sarcasm spoken with intention. If you can't see the difference, then I feel for you.

There was no reason to say it at all. The reason it was, in my opinion, is because there was simply an opportunity to use 'Christians' negatively. It happens here all the time. As soon as some here see the opportunity to throw 'christians' into a negative connotation, they jump all over it, sarcasm or not. I consider that behavior to be intolerant, bigoted and ignorant, and I know for certain that type of sarcasm would not be tolerated by most here if in reference to women, gays or minorities. But the standard of decency is different when it comes to references to christianity here and that's just wrong. So condone it all you want, but as a strong believer in defending against intolerance and bigotry, forgive me for speaking out against it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. I guess this is sarcasm then?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=140541#140746

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

35. No, But That Was About A Different Topic Entirely.

That was in reference to marketing, not homophobia. You really should learn how to read context, lest you look really silly.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

48. Yes, he was.

I wish I would put the effort he does into defending Christians into defending other groups, ones that are really persecuted.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

51. BZZZZTTTTT. WRONG Haruka. I Was Not One Of Them. I Guarantee You Cannot Back Up Your False Claim.

You are wrong Haruka. Flat out wrong. So you should correct your misstatement.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

58. BZZZZTTTTT. I'm right. Sorry, dude. You even used the phrase, "Lighten up."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=140541&mesg_id=140746

OPERATIONMINDCRIME (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-06-07 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Holy Melodrama. They're Just Commercials Dude. Lighten Up.

I've never heard of someone thinking that they're about to be fucked over as much as possible by having an attempt made at creating an impulse to want a snickers bar. I mean, whoa dude.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

65. If it wasn't for post #35...

I'd have figured he never read post #33.

Seems to me he was also defending Biden over his Obama remarks.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

67. Once Again: WRONG FUCKING CONVERSATION. That WAS NOT ABOUT HOMOPHOBIA. LEARN TO READ CONTEXT.

It was an OP ranting about how marketers use manipulation etc... Context is important Haruka, and either you just completely were ignorant to it or disgracefully have omitted it for sake of character smear. Either way you are completely wrong. This is what the post was in reference to, and note what I have bolded, which is what inspired my post:

"Politicians, advertisers, corporations, the media, the people running the show think you are all pathetic little sheep who will run around eating Snickers bars because you saw them on TV. The people running the show lie to your face then tell you you "misunderstood" even though what they said is on tape. I got news for them. I don't "misunderstand" jack shit. I understood Joe Biden just fine. I understand that Ted Haggard is not "cured". I understand that the new "budget" is not balanced. I understand that the Democrats aren't doing anything because their priorities are themselves first, the rest of us later(I can count on one hand the number of Dems I'm happy with right now). I understand that No Child Left Behind really means, they don't want an intelligent populace, who can think for themselves.
Goddammit I am sick and tired of all this bullshit. Please, for once, let someone who is running the show just tell me to my face, "hey, we're gonna fuck you over as much as possible, and there is nothing you can do about it, have a nice day". You want to screw me over, fine, at least have the guts to say it to my face, your bullshit doesn't work on me anyway. We have a bunch of chickenhawk cowards running the country, the media and the corporations, and they think it's their job to rob, cheat and steal as much as they can from as many people as they can before their factories and oil fields poison the planet beyond repair. You know, I could almost deal with that if they would just stop treating me like I had the Shrub's IQ.
"

The post was a rant on marketing tactics used solely for sake manipulating you into buying the product without even thinking for yourself. There was a dramatic rant in the last paragraph that I found humorous. My reply was towards THAT aspect of the argument. The OP had NOTHING to do with the argument as to whether it was, wasn't homophobic etc. My reply was in reference to taking marketing and attempts to create an impulse so seriously as considering it 'being fucked over as much as possible".

So nice try Haruka, but you are woefully wrong here, and either ignorantly so or disgracefully so.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

69. Oh please, put away your bold type and aggressive capitalization. It's unseemly.

In a post below, I also link to the Judy Shepherd thread which was about homophobia.

Nice try, though.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

72. Just Admit You Were Wrong, Haruka. It Won't Kill Ya.

And who gives a shit about your Judy Shepherd link. My arguments were perfectly fine in that link, though many return posters were disgraceful in their attack, but even in spite of that the fact is that it STILL HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A FALSE CLAIM THAT I TOLD PEOPLE TO LIGHTEN UP OVER THE HOMOPHOBIA ISSUE.

Can't escape that fact, Haruka, can ya. You said I was one of the people telling people they should lighten up over the homophobia issue with the Snickers commercial. Fact: You are wrong. Fact: You cannot show otherwise. Advice: You should edit your post to correct your false statement.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

75. Fact: You are blind in reading your own posts. Fact: I am right.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

80. Haruka, I've Proven You Wrong All Over The Place. How Can You Hold Onto This False Attack?

How could you even have the slightest bit of respect for yourself for purposely attacking another with false information that has already been proven false?

Where's your proof haruka? Do you not agree that the context of the attack was in reference to a supposed premise of me telling people who were offended by the homophobic tones of the commerical to lighten up? Have you found ANY posts of mine that back up that fraudulent assertion? Have you? No? You haven't? Guess that means you were wrong then.

Why after being proven wrong you continue to want to hold onto your character attack is quite perplexing and troubling, but lets just say I'll never look at you the same way again, since I cannot yield respect for anyone who would ever incorporate such ignorant tactics.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

88. Nice personal attacks, buddy.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

90. At Least Mine Are Verifiable. This All Could've Been Avoided If You Just Edited Your False Attack

to begin with. I also don't see any attacks in my previous reply, just plain blunt fact.

Don't blame me for vigorously defending against your false attack Haruka. I had every right to do so and was not the one in error.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

91. It's not my fault if you deny your own words, St. Peter.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

93. What Words, Haruka? They Were Never Said In That Context. EVER. You Were Wrong And Should Edit.

I find it amazing that you don't have the character to do so, even in light of having your argument completely torn apart and exposed as a fraudulent one.

But if you are content in letting your proven false, unjustified and disgraceful attack stand, then no one can stop you.

I mean, do you seriously expect others to have respect in your claim that my saying 'lighten up' towards a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT context then the homophobia argument is proof that I said lighten up to people who were offended due to the homophobia? Are you seriously content with letting that totally spun, distorted and deceitful attack stand? Do you not see how disgraceful that is? How wrong you are? How pathetic that makes you look?

Too sad. I had higher expectation of you than that Haruka, but I don't anymore.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

94. Oops. Past the editing period. Oh well, I was correct anyway.

You have a very funny idea of proven wrong, btw.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

95. Haruka, It's Evident To Everyone That You Weren't.

Since you know damned well that the accusation was implying that I told those offended by the ad to lighten up, and the only posting of me saying lighten up was in reference to a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CONTEXT, then it is readily obvious to everyone that you were quite simply WRONG.

Why you simply can't come forward and admit that is perplexing, and the fact you want to continue to act as if the attack was accurate is utterly disgusting.

You can choose all you want to continue to convince yourself that your attack hasn't been proven wrong, but it has, severely, handily and readily.

No, no one's gonna let ya off with the technicality of "hey, see? he did say lighten up even though it was for a completely different argument and context!". No one but the most ignorant of the ignorant would let you get away with that one, Haruka. Every one knows full well what the attack was intended to signify, and everyone knows full well that you haven't provided ANYTHING at all that shows I did such things. Know why? Cause I didn't. Why you can't admit that you were wrong in that context is monumentally troubling.

But I've proven my case enough and defended my character adequately. I'll be damned if I let mindless trouble makers cast me as someone who would say something as vile as you are attributing to me. Totally disgraceful. Just totally disgraceful.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

99. Actually, OMC....

it seems you've been caught with your pants down.

Because that's exactly what the link shows.

You've been trying to argue that you were taken out of context, somehow, even though you mention the snickers commercial right there in your post.

Your defense falls short.

[Bunny]

100. Yep. He's had his ass totally handed to him.

In a very public, humiliating, and funny-as-hell way.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

101. ROFLMAO!!!! You've Obviously Paid No Attention.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

102. Oh, but I have.

And I'm telling you, your arguments don't hold any water.

You've dug yourself into a rather deep hole. And now you've got to ask yourself how much further you want to keep digging.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

105. Actually, Yours Didn't Hold Water To Begin With. Mind Proving How Mine Don't?

You look like a fool holding onto this claim.

[Bunny]

103. You really should calm down. It's just a thread.

Touchy, touchy, touchy.

Anyway, you are 100% wrong and I am 110% right. You see, I use nothing but calm, clear, rational and factual thinking. You are clearly overreacting and being way too emotional and taking this way too seriously. Lighten up - are you always this tense?

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bunny]

116. .

:rofl:

Sincerely,

Bub

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

104. Oh Please, Who You Kidding. Are You Really That Disingenuous?

You know full well what you meant by your attack. You meant to lump me in with those that told others to lighten up who were offended at the ad due to homophobia etc. It was a big thing here on DU obviously and there isn't a person here who doesn't know what the fuck you were implying.

Now admit it. That's what you goddamn meant by it. You meant in the context of those offended by the ad, and that I told them to lighten up and not take it seriously. But that DID NOT HAPPEN. You were WRONG. Haruka was WRONG. And now that I have humiliated you both by proving you were wrong and that the only evidence you had was towards a COMPLETELY different context, you are clinging to that context as a technicality in an attempt to spare yourself from the embarrassment of being wrong.

But guess what, ain't no one buyin it. When I said 'lighten up' in that post it was for completely different reasons and completely different context then the argument you were trying to make. Your attack was baseless. Your context was wrong. It is quite simple. Why are you not strong enough to come forward and admit it? Are you seriously going to stand here, stand up in front of everyone, and attempt to make the claim that when you accused me of being one who told people to lighten up about the ad, that you meant it in the context of me telling one poster to lighten up over how marketers try using your impulses and cravings to sell their products, for any commercial, because the poster said that equates to them fucking you over as hard as they can? Are you for real? Are you seriously going to have the gall and ignorance to stand in front of DU and make that claim? You are seriously going to sit there with a straight face and say when you called me out as someone that told people to lighten up in that fiasco, that's the context you were referring?

You know damn well it wasn't bub. You know damn well what you were implying. You were implying that I was one of a group who undermined the gay community's feelings about the ad by effectively saying 'you shouldn't be offended, lighten up'. Well guess what buddy, I wasn't. I didn't. I never would. You were wrong. Your context was wrong. Just because there is a post of mine saying 'lighten up' to a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CONTEXT doesn't make you right. This wasn't about technicality. This was about premise. This was about an accusation. Based on your premise, your accusation is completely false and has been proven such. You should have even the slightest bit of human decency and ability to admit it.

Course, if you want to continue to stand in front of DU and say "no, seriously guys! I didn't mean my accusation to imply he said lighten up in the context of the homophobia argument, I really really didn't. Guys, seriously, I swear! I'm not being disingenuous. I just meant he said the words in completely different context, honest!", then go for it. But don't mind me if I or anyone else don't believe you for a damn second.

You both were wrong. For God's sake have the shred of character necessary to just admit it. Jesus.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

107. I guess your hole isn't deep enough.

:shrug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

108. Go For It. You'll Just Fail Again.

[jumpoffdaplanet]

97. The only person wrong here is you.

Time for you to lighten up.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

106. Actually I've Handily Proven Otherwise.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

109. Your anger is getting the best of you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

110. Nah, Never Does. Still So Sad And Disgusting That You Are Too Weak To Admit Error, Though.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

111. Projection's a bitch.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

112. You'd Know. n/t

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

118. Yes, I was in the psychology honors society in college.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

119. You know...

If we were ever in a discussion and I happened to ask you if you ever called anyone a bitch, and you replied no, and I linked to that post, would you say that was taken out of context too?

:rofl:

[Bunny]

115. He really should calm down.

This kind of anger can lead to all sorts of medical problems.

[treestar]

92. Two different issues

1 - making fun of people or cutting them down for being gay or Christian
2 - reacting to a commercial that makes fun of gays or Christians versus reacting to death threats made to gays or Christians

Wanting people to lighten up over the Snicker's commercial does not mean the person wouldn't condemn death threats made against gays. It does not even mean the person is bigoted against them. Same with the Christians.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

60. I Can Almost Hear You Feverishly Searching The Archives Looking For Proof. Save Your Time Haruka,

and just take back your statement. You aren't going to find any posts, because you simply spoke in error. Spare yourself the embarrassment and the time and just edit your false declaration.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

62. I already posted it. Spare YOUR embarassment.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

68. No You Didn't. What You Posted Had NOTHING To Do With It. So You Failed. Care To Try Again? Or

will you now go back and edit after realizing you are completely wrong.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

71. I'm not completely wrong and I didn't fail. Read my post below. You will not bully me into editing

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

76. You Are Completely Wrong And You Did Completely Fail, And You Should Edit.

You're the bully, since you're the one trying to attack my character falsely.

You have not yet provided ANY proof whatsoever that I at ANY time said the homophobia issue with the Snickers commercial shouldn't be taken seriously, or that people should lighten up over it. Since THAT is your accusation, you should be able to back it up. You have not yet done so nor can you, since I in fact NEVER said such things. Since you should now be aware that you were wrong in your accusation it would only be the appropriate, decent and liberal thing to do to edit your accusation appropriately and take it back since it was false.

Someone has to be pretty vile to let a character attack remain after becoming aware that it was issued falsely.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

77. ...

"You're the bully, since you're the one trying to attack my character falsely."

What about people who attack Clintontyee's character as being antichristian bigots?

Are they bullies?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

82. Did I Or Did I Not Step Forward And Say I May Have Been Mistaken. Huh Pal? Yeah, Big Difference.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

85. I saw you try to give a half assed apology.

Something about dementia via the flu.

Now I myself happend to have the flu last year, 104 degree fever and all.

I certainly was in no condition to get on the computer, let alone get in a flame war.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

86. See?

I'm really not either, believe me. That's why I probably shoulda walked away hours ago.

And yes, my mind don't fell all too much there right now, and my fingers have been shaky as hell on the keyboard. Chances are I was totally wrong earlier in this thread. But thankfully, I at least have my wits about me enough to not allow some disgraceful character attack to be made on me without defense.

I personally thought it was disgusting how some tried to minimize the feelings of others in regards to the Snickers ad fiasco. You damned well bet I'm not gonna allow myself to all of a sudden be lumped in with them just because two posters want to make that claim falsely.

I would NEVER have said such things. EVER.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

66. Here's the thread where you considered Judy Shepherd 100% WRONG, yes the mother of Matthew Shepherd

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=140349

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

70. So What? That Has Nothing To Do With The Accusation Either, Does It. You Failed Again.

I stand behind my arguments there and they have NOTHING to do with the accusation that I told people to lighten up over the homophobia issue. So you failed to provide proof again. Care for another shot or are you ready to rescind your false statement yet?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

74. It's not a false statement. I stand by it.

The original statement by bornagainhooligan was that you told people to lighten up on the Snickers commerical. I posted two links backing that up, and even with them staring into your blind face, you deny them.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

78. You Provided No Such Thing. You Failed And Your Attack Is Baseless.

Obviously, what was meant by the accusation of me telling people to lighten up was associating me with those who minimized the feelings of those who were offended by the commercial and its homophobic context. You know damn well that's what the accusation meant.

Well guess what, didn't fucking happen, haruka. The post you provided of my saying lighten up had NOTHING to do with the homophobic issue whatsoever, so it is AMAZINGLY disingenuous of you to even try and use that in such a way. Disgraceful, really.

But the fact stands that as the accusation was intended in its context, you have offered NO PROOF TO IT WHATSOEVER. You have failed to do so. Know why? Cause I never did nor ever would have told people offended by it for the overtones of it to lighten up.

So yes, you and the other poster should take the false accusation back, as any decent liberal should be more than willing to do once realizing their error.

[kestrel91316]

46. Which is exactly why we shouldn't tolerate teachers like this one.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

54. You're Right, We Absolutely Shouldn't.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. "Heaven for the climate, Hell for the conversation" - Mark Twain

[Arugula Latte]

18. I love this Twain quote:

"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." (from Pudd'nhead Wilson)

[Tempest]

42. Is there a Hell in the Spagetti Monster religion?

Or is there just Heck?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

45. Yes.

It involves Olive Garden.

[Tempest]

47. That would be Hell to me

I got food poisoning there once and never went back.

[cui bono]

59. There's just garlic breath.

That can be hell since you can't get laid.

[redqueen]

16. I saw "these people" not as a label for all Christians...

but a label for the pharisee types, which we're all so very familiar with.

Is there something else that I missed, which you saw as a smear?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

27. It Was The Header Itself.

It may have been sarcastic, but it was a bitter sarcasm with intent, not a lighthearted sarcasm. That's why I consider it to be bigoted.

Though what followed was in reference to the extremists in the story, it was already preceded with a tone of christianity in general, whether via sarcasm or not.

Like I said, a similar comment with similar bitter sarcastic tone towards women, gays, minorities or otherwise would not be tolerated by most here. The fact that when it is done in reference to Christians is tolerated as ok, is bothersome. It shouldn't be. There are many Christian members here who get frustrated and upset over these constant sarcastic attacks, and it is for them that I rise.

[redqueen]

31. I see your point.

Perhaps if "Christian" were put in quotes, it might have avoided giving that impression?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

40. I Might've Been Wrong Though.

I gotta admit, I've got a 103.1 fever right now from a flu that's kicked my ass, and I'm feeling zero confidence in my deductive abilities today. I think I should just walk the fuck away for a bit. I'm tryin to think right, but I'm just not sure it's happenin.

[Richard Steele]

20. Your sarcasm detector may need recalibration. nm

[ClintonTyree]

30. Sorry...

but I will not self-censor for you or anyone. How you could construe my post as hateful and intolerant to all christians is beyond me. Perhaps you didn't see the :eyes: following the post? I was commenting on the teacher's behavior. Period.

Chill out.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

38. Well,

I took they eyes as being dismissive of christianity altogether.

I just think too many here are quick to throw the general 'chrisitians' term out there any chance they get, without realizing that there are many DU'ers here who feel frustrated at constantly seeing the term thrown around with negative connotation at every opportunity given, just because some religious extremists did something.

I'm personally not one of them, I just always try and defend against displays of intolerance whenever I can. But I can't say I'm right here. I very well may have taken your rolly eyes wrong and lord knows my 103 degree fever via a knock me on my ass flu has been messin with my ability to think rationally all damn day.

[ClintonTyree]

50. Just got over a bout with a virus myself.......

I felt like holy-hell for 4 days but it seems to have broken now. Hope you feel better soon :) Peace.

[JackBeck]

36. Are you always this tense?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=252415&mesg_id=253345

:P

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

41. Touche Puttycato.

:)

[Tempest]

44. OUCH!

I felt that body slam from here.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

49. Nope. Actually Made Me Chuckle And Smile.

[hashibabba]

23. I just got reamed out by a Christian who said horrible things to me.

Then she said God told her not to take MY crap, when I tried to respond. I told her she was deluded and was obviously listening to someone other than God (like the devil). Then I told her not to write back to me because I'd report her to her supervisor.

I'm a Christian, but I left the church a long time ago, just because of people like her.

I had to edit to say that the dispute was about my political views which she doesn't want to hear. This is the first I heard of it, yet she jumped all over me.

[Aristus]

3. Ah! Killing in defense of the faith!

Tell me again: What was it we had against Osama Bin Laden? :shrug:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. The "All seeing, All knowing, All powerful, and Everywhere" God needs protection again.

Do any of the "faithful" ever see the irony of "defending" their mighty deity?

[Initech]

14. The RW Christian philosophy - Believe or die!!!

[Arugula Latte]

25. I wish these people could see that you can't MAKE yourself believe stuff you just don't believe

To me it is utter nonsense that this dude who lived 2,000 years ago was the only evolved primate in the 6 billion year history of this particular little planet in this strand of a run-of-the-mill galaxy who was, like, *magical* and died and came back to life and "saved" believers. It makes as much sense to me as believing that the moon is made out of green cheese, the Earth is flat, and Don Knotts and Anna Nicole are monitoring all of our actions from afar by tapping into our dental work. So how am I supposed to force my own brain to accept what to me is such a ridiculous, far-fetched myth, namely, the divinity of Jesus? :shrug:

[kestrel91316]

52. A lot of liberal Christians don't necessarily believe in the literal

divinity of Christ either.

Bishop Spong comes to mind. He's an Episcopal, and pretty much an agnostic. Writes great books.

[Arugula Latte]

61. Using Jesus' teachings on love, etc., makes some sense to me.

But this "Believe this fundamentalist stuff literally or you'll literally burn in Hell" makes zero sense to me.

[kestrel91316]

113. I'm more into the idea of Jesus as astute prophet and great

teacher than I am as literal manifestation of divinity.

[etherealtruth]

32. That's the religious zealot's mantra

Tends to apply to the religiously insane of all faiths

[Initech]

79. Same credo used by suicide bombers.

[redqueen]

21. That is very sad.

And sadder still, not surprising at all.

[lpbk2713]

22. *You'd better let her spread the word that God is love or we'll kill ya*

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[GreenPartyVoter]

28. That is just messed up

[Nickster]

34. Where did this happen? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? Sheesh. n/t

[Supersedeas]

37. is this the direction the Fundies are driving this country toward

[mondo joe]

64. If you have to make death threats against kids, and lie about your activities,

in pursuit of your belief system, perhaps it could use some reexamination.

[dysfunctional press]

73. if we can ever grow up and out of this religious mythology nonsense...

society will definitely be MUCH better off. i just wish that i could have been born into THOSE enlightened times, instead of this ignorant one.

[Warren DeMontague]

96. Yeah, and folks trying to defend Roy Moore's 10 Commandment Monument Made Death Threats at lawyers

for the other side...

I guess they missed the part about "Thou Shalt Not Kill" :eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

98. That teacher needs to be fired, immediately. nt

[roguevalley]

may all involved get fired.

RV, retired teacher of 27 years and firmly planted in reality. most of the time. :)

[roguevalley]

117. may all involved get fired.

RV, retired teacher of 27 years and firmly planted in reality. most of the time. :)

[EvolveOrConvolve]

120. "We love you very very much

as one of Jesus' speyshul children. But if you don't do as we say, we will kill you."

Ah, the smell of christian hypocrisy...

[NMMNG]

121. Scary people

Let us proselytize or die!