Come nov 2008 if either Obama or Hillary wins

[blues90]

What are the people who stand by their every word as if they know them personally through some sort of blind faith gong to say when everything they claim they will do goes right down the crapper .

Is it not evident by now that bush has lowered the bar so low that just about anyone looks better and that anyone can say anything they want and make all the promises on earth yet still be simply in this for their own personal gain in the grand game of winning .

Kerry was what we got in 2004 and he has not been a shining light , granted he would have been better than bush but is this good enough .

These candidants base almost everything on mistakes made in the past by other candidates who lost , this in no way makes them the right choice .

People tend to believe that all is fair in campaigns including bashing other candidates by candidates , ask yourself this , if you were to choose a friend would it be the person who worked on personal credit or the one who had no problem bringing down others to build up themselves ?

[ecstatic]

1. If they do let us down Pelosi-style, then of course, most of us

will disengage in the process and become more selfish.

[kohodog]

7. Pretty much disengaged already, but hoping not to take the selfish route.

Probably why I haven't been posting much. Four years ago I felt that the Dean movement (and for me it wasn't really about Dean, but the meet-ups with progressive minded neighbors) would instigate change. Four years later the bubbles have burst, our constitution has been shredded, we're still in Iraq and the Earth is heating up at a rapid rate.

Please tell me which one of these candidates can actually break the log jam and facilitate real change. I can't see through the fog but am listening hard.

[ThatPoetGuy]

10. This is the thing that baffles me the most about Obama supporters.

I have to wonder if they actually listen to what he's telling us, or if they are just blinded by charisma.

Obama's campaign is centered on the PROMISE to let us down.

He makes it clear in every speech that he WANTS to compromise. He has announced his intention to work WITH the Republicans, not against them.

Anyone who has ever had a harsh word for Reid and Pelosi -- why, why, WHY would you support a candidate who seems to think that they haven't worked hard enough to accommodate Republican needs?

[PeaceNikki]

2. I don't get it.

Are you saying that these 2 are the only candidates who *GASP* might not do EVERYthing they hope to do?

[blues90]

5. I bring them up simply because they are the two who

are in the money and well backed , they are the chosen ones .

I would change the word HOPE to do , to promise to do .

I have heard these same sort of promises over and over for decades now and all came to be nothing more than making points to get elected .

I any hopeful wants to be clear and precise then leave out the bashing crap , this alone shows me who they really are , children .

[PeaceNikki]

8. pssst

ALL the candidates are politicians. There will ALWAYS be some level of "making points to get elected".

ohh wait, wait... I know. You're going to tell me how noble and trustworthy Kucinich is, right?

[blues90]

11. SOME LEVEL ?

Yes it is some level all right , just keep up the same old game and all will work out fine , don't be honest just make the talking points .

PSSST , No I was not going to bring up DK , that was not at all my point .

You are the prime example of someone who makes the personal choice of making points with swarmy sarcasm , instead of any sort of respect for anyone who may not see it quite your way .

[PeaceNikki]

12. So, what was your point, if not to further fling poo at Clinton and Obama?

It was worded in a manner meant to put someone on the defensive. As though these 2 are the only candidates where broken promises are even a possibility.

And, do you and I have a some history on which you base this assessment of me? Is my name on some "enemy list" you're keeping?

My single post was as full of "swarmy sarcasm" as your OP was with passive aggression.

[blues90]

13. It was your take I meant to "fling Poo "

It was your first and second reply that got to me , or don't you see how you pass judgement with the opening remark of pssst ?

No I don't have a history with you or a stupid childish enemy list .

I brought up the two candidates who are the most backed and the most talked about and the most pushed by the media and also brought up Kerry . I never said they were the only two with broken promises , there are other responses there that I say I have seen this for decades and it is time to change this same old crap of bashing , what people refer to in the past as dirty politics or mud slinging , but people have forgot about this tactic as if it is still acceptable , I don't feel it is .

It was not passive aggressive , it was a simple question and that's all and I used the two hopefuls who do this the most .

I am sick and tired of mud slinging by the very people who want the peoples vote . stick to the issues they support , tell the truth , give reference of how they intend to make the changes they say they can and why , that's all . If they can't do something then stand up and say so .

Haven't we had enough of lies and been jerked around long enough ?

I don't what to hear what someone thinks I want to hear , I want to hear what they can do and know they can do , anything less is a damn lie .

[PeaceNikki]

14. You set the tone with:

"These candidates base almost everything on mistakes made in the past by other candidates who lost , this in no way makes them the right choice "

You said that. You said this isolating Clinton and Obama. That sentence alone made it more than a "simple question" and, in my opinion, wide open for "swarmy sarcasm" of which I am now the poster child. :eyes:

You do see how the choice of words in your OP and elicit specific reactions, don't you?

[blues90]

15. There is no way on earth I or anyone else can predict others reactions

And if anyone claims they can then they are a liar .

My personal opinion is candidates base much of their campaign stratagy on past mistakes made by others , it's just my opinion . If you choose to make it into something person I have no control nore do I want control over that .

You tell me how you would change my use of words to prevent any sort of reaction for walking on the safe side which is something I really don't care to do , walk on the safe side . I didn't offend everyone who replied , some got my point and others decided to imply who I supported or suggest I had no business here if I felt all Dems would fail .

I have to assume and mind you only assume you are either in support of Obama or Hillary and simply feel DK is useless . So you do see just in your response alone you isolated DK .

[gateley]

3. Regardless of who the nom is, I'm going to feel deeply betrayed if they don't

try to keep their promises to us. If it becomes apparent that much of what s/he said was merely to "win", I'll be furious.

And I'll probably say "I told you so" a lot. :7

[johncoby2]

4. Uh....let me guess.......

Vote Kucinich?

[TwilightZone]

6. Why are you here?

My question is a serious one. If you are already assuming that the next Democratic president is going to fail, why are you here? Your agenda seems misguided, at best.

Newsflash: Kerry isn't president, but has still accomplished much. What "shining light" do you expect him to be?

[blues90]

9. First of all they are not the only ones who could be the next Dem president

Do you suspect Hillary or Obama have it in the bag , that's what I read in your comment ? I brought up two names here .

As far as Kerry goes he jerked the people around with all the promise of fighting with lawyers if the voting seemed unfair and he walked away and tossed it in the next day . What more do you need ?