Less than half of the 30 top jobs of 2008 pay more than 46,360.

[Mountainman]

I make nearly twice that and I find it hard to get buy in CA. Without my wife working we would not be able to afford a house and what ever else is part of the "American Dream."





http://msn.careerbuilder.com/custom/msn/careeradvice/viewarticle.aspx?articleid=1248&SiteId=cbmsnhp41248&sc_extcmp=JS_1248_home1>1=10785

[yardwork]

1. I know. How are people supposed to live in this country?

The top two percent have billions to waste frivolously, while most Americans can't afford the most minor luxuries. What's going on? THIS is the greatest country on earth??!!

[DesertFlower]

2. hubby makes 3x that amount.

and i have social security. we're doing fine. our kids are grown. we've got our mortgage down to $85,000 on a house that's worth about $700,000. we pay cash for our cars.

on the other hand, if we lived in california or new york city and had kids to educate, it would be another story.

honestly, i don't know how people do it. the american dream is gone. hubby has been with the company a long time and will get a nice pension. but the days of pensions are pretty much gone.


on edit: if one of us were to become ill and need long term care, we could lose everything we have.

[NC_Nurse]

4. How about getting long term care insurance?

My parents have it for just the same reason.

[DesertFlower]

8. we got it for hubby,

but they will not cover me because of a pre-existing condition. it's chronic fatigue syndrome. it's not like it's cancer or heart disease, but if they think they're gonna have to pay out, "forget about it."

his coverage only pays a certain amount for a certain amount of time.

[NC_Nurse]

21. Well, that sucks. I'm glad you got it for him at least.

[DesertFlower]

23. he got it through his employer.

he didn't need a medical exam. we tried about 20 companies for mine.

[NC_Nurse]

24. Damn.

I think my Dad got his from USAA for both of them. I could be wrong though.

[DesertFlower]

26. sometimes the companies make an offer like that.

[Adsos Letter]

15. Actually, with the personal statistics you provide...

you would be just fine in California...

My wife and I bring in, on average, about 180k per year...we bought our house in the Bay Area 15 years ago, so mortgage is quite manageable (about $1300 per month, including taxes and insurance).


We have put kids through 12 years of private school (we have two daughters) and 4 years of college (1 daughter has been in medical school the last two years, and the other is just getting ready to start a 4 year college).

However, this country needs desperately to provide work and wages which allow people to not just survive, but to actually enjoy life without the burden of stress over working 2 jobs (or more) and constantly being stressed over meeting the cost of the basics of life (and with the ability to save for things beyond the necessities).

Even with higher wages in California, many people who work very hard are still faced with stresses and uncertainties which they shouldn't have to face.

Developing a strong middle class, and seeing to it that even lower wage earners don't have to face a constant uphill battle, seems to me to be fundamental to creating a nation which represents the fullness of what is actually possible.

my 2 cents...

[DesertFlower]

20. yes. we would be okay,

but we wouldn't have the house we have here. we have a custom built, 2800 sq. ft. home with all the upgrades on a 2-1/2 acre lot with views to die for. it would run us about 2 million or more in san diego.

[LisaM]

3. A lot of it is housing costs - quite high in Seattle

In fact, an article came out last year saying that Seattle was the most overpriced city in the country, ranking what people earned against what things cost. Housing here is extremely high, but salaries are not as strong as they are in California or New York.

However, when I visit my family in Michigan, other than in Ann Arbor, I am amazed at how much less housing is. There is plenty available for under $150,000. Rentals are likewise cheap. It costs at least $1500 per month average in Seattle to rent even a crappy house, and many rentals are more than $2000 per month (or more). They are also trying to squeeze rental property out of the Seattle market as far as I can tell. We are lucky in that we have affordable rent (though we live in a tear down) but will be SOL when we have to pay more. We'll probably have to leave the city proper.

[knitter4democracy]

5. We live in Michigan and pay less than $1500/month for our house.

If we had the jobs, life here would be perfect. Great weather, cheap housing, all the creature comforts, gorgeous place to live, but we're hemorraging jobs and people left and right. *sigh*

[DesertFlower]

12. great weather?

isn't it really cold there?

[LisaM]

14. Michigan has fantastic weather

Four well-defined seasons. Yes, it has winter, but not as cold as in the Plains. Yes, it has summer, but not as hot as Florida. And the spring and fall are heaven.

[DesertFlower]

16. i like warm weather.

give me 70-90 and i'm in "hog heaven".

[knitter4democracy]

18. That's our summer.

Last summer was really dry, but it sure was pretty.

[michreject]

28. Michigan sucks

I'm moving to Tennessee in May. I live in Clarkston and got 15.5" of snow on Jan 1st. :mad:

[knitter4democracy]

37. Oh man, we only got half that. No fair!

:) The kids had fun in the snow today, though.

[LisaM]

38. Yeah, well, you can't take any of the Great Lakes water!

If you live in a hot, dry place, don't complain that it is hot and dry.........

[michreject]

46. Not hot and dry

I'll be in the mountains.:)

[Ilsa]

43. Sounds like heaven to me. I'm in south texas and it gets too hot in winter!

Series! I wear tank tops a third of the time from Dec thru Feb.

We have water worries, also. And groups are starting to fight over water, and if we build a nuclear power plant, will it drain off part of our water supply, and the forecast is to get drier over the decades.

I wish we cold move, but we are tied down to family, school, and job here.

[knitter4democracy]

17. Just wait, and it changes!

:D

Right now, it's in the twenties. Early next week, it'll be in the forties. Last summer, it would fluctuate between fifty and ninety. If you wait, you'll get the weather you want. :)

[DesertFlower]

6. that's sad.

i think people have to weigh the travelling expenses and time against living in the city.

[hfojvt]

13. under $150,000, that's simply astounding

Astounding to me that you list that like 'it's so affordable'. That's an astronomical price to me. I was looking for houses under $60,000, as more in my price range. Some of them were decent and some of them were junk. The house I got for $35,000 was much bigger, and on a bigger lot than a new one with no basement, and no driveway, and on a tiny lot that they were asking $110,000 for. And location-wise it sucked too, as far as having services like banks, libraries, groceries, post office, and churches within walking distance.

[knitter4democracy]

19. Battle Creek has some in that range.

They usually need work, but some of them are quite nice and in decent areas. :)

[DesertFlower]

25. i didn't think you could get a house

for that little.

[salin]

41. Mine was listed (originally) for 72k

it was only 5 years old and in foreclosure. In a 'transitional' neighborhood (a couple of blocks away is a small 'hip' area). But it wasn't selling (too much new construction in the burbs for much more - comparable house about 150k - but in the time of 'creative' financing to lower initial payments (this was 04) - there were no bites and the price dropped abit. I offered quite a bit less (figured there was about 15K worth of work that I would want done) and caught an eye at the 'viewing' list (folks sign in when they show the house) and noted that noone had seen the house for a couple of months. So I decided to further lowball the offer and approaching it philosphically - if it was meant to be, I would get it and if not, I would keep looking (though I doubted I could find any home that was comparable for such a low price as what I was offering). And I got it. I paid a bit more than the what is listed in the post that you were responding to, but not much.

When I was looking (with a friend) at properties in the Bay Area - homes this size went for 100 times more than I paid. It was a trip that I paid (and didn't have to take out a mortgage to do so) one tenth of the cost of homes I saw in silicon valley of a similar size. Granted those neighborhoods were much more desirable than mine (urban/Indianapolis).

My point it is possible to buy homes that are really affordable - depending on location and circumstances.

[hfojvt]

45. it depends on the town

I couldn't in Baraboo, Wi but easily could in many Iowa towns, (which it turns out were not worth living in) and could not in the KCMO metro area, although I never looked at KC proper, only ex-urbs. Some were kinda nasty too. One had standing water in the living room. My brother-in-law remarked after seeing one that was listed at $63,000 "I feel like I need a shower."

[knitter4democracy]

7. When we lived on less than that, it was really, really hard.

It was when Hubby was in residency and our two kids were very young. I remember reading at the time that we were considered middle class for government stats and getting really ticked off. How in the heck are people supposed to make it these days?!

[NashVegas]

9. Home Health Care Aids

Making less than 21k per year, while insurers claim the cost is $1k per week?

[DesertFlower]

11. insurance companies.

don't even get me started. every time i hear the words health insurance i want to puke.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

10. "get buy"

Freudian slip?

[Johonny]

22. The housing prices in CA

Are simply unreal. No way you buy a house on 46 K and keep that house.

[catnhatnh]

27. And 4 of the "Hot Jobs".....

pay less than full time minimum wage....does that give you a hint of how the economy is doing???

[horsewithnoname]

29. I have no idea how people can survive on that kind of money

I just don't know how people live on less that 50K a year, after they get done paying taxes and all the expenses they have nothing left. I make about 200K a year and my wife makes about 100K. After paying taxes and school expenses we have very little left. Now that the economy is falling apart I don't know if we are going to be able to buy a new car or go on vacation next year.

We as a country really need to tax the heck out of all those rich people and get them to pay their fair share. Maybe if we just took some of whatthey have they might get to see what its like to live hand to mouth like the rest of us.

[Beaverhausen]

30. Millions of people do get by on far less than that

They can't even think about owning a house or buying new car or taking a vacation.

By the way, welcome to DU! :hi:

[haele]

35. It;'s the expenses, not the income that destroy most families -

You and your family can be comfortable - and even have savings or investments - in San Diego on $50K a year income. IF -
1) Your mortgage is almost paid off - and your payments are under $1.5K a month. You have no student loans outstanding.
2) Your vehicle(s) are paid off and your insurance is low - no tickets, accidents or other things that drive it up. And there are no teen drivers on your insurance.
3) You have no medical problems in your family - or to pets.
4) You recycle, you have access to a garden for fruit and veggies and are otherwise environmentally responsible - which cut down on your utilities.
5) You shop wisely for food and regular purchases - including remaking thrift store clothes at home and cook at home/can and preserve for the most part. You don't carry debt on credit cards.
6) You have an existing workshop capability that can handle wood, drywall, common electrical/plumbing and automotive issues and can use your own tools.
7) You know how to barter and have good neighbors.
8) Your kids have good friends that won't think of stealing when they find out what the family's schedule is and won't drag the kids down into a shallow, consumer-based mindset just for the social acceptance. Also - your kids won't get into drugs, drinking and all the other costly vices common to the general teenage society.
9) You have secure employment that brings a regular income, whether or not you get raises or bonuses.
10) You don't travel for vacations, you can stay at home or have relatives visit you.

But - any one of these things missing or gets turned around, any little emergency, a job loss or chronic illness, a drama-queen of a kid getting in with a very bad crowd and into drugs, and the first thing that happens is that the savings start disappearing and you start paying interest on credit cards, then the paycheck seems to get smaller, then you're living paycheck to paycheck and then - you start falling behind.

And once you start falling behind, that's it. All you can hope to do is to keep from going further behind. Doesn't matter who you are, not everyone can win the lottery and rescue oneself.

I learned the hard way, for every one month you lose a regular "paycheck" or income - be it from unemployment, a sudden debt or emergency expenditure(say, due to accident or illness) that had not been "saved" for, it takes six months of that same income level to make up for that loss. Which means two months off that hasn't been budgeted for prior to the time off takes a year to recover from.

On Edit - Yes, I know the fellow you're answering is a smug troll who probably believes him or herself "self made" bootstrap type but still lives off the folks or sold their soul by The Suits (I highly doubt he or she is a doctor just starting a practice and paying off student loans!), but there are too many people beggering themselves for a middle class existance. And that isn't taking away from the fact that we do have too many poor people losing everything trying to survive.

Too many punishment fantasies about "them and us", and not enough honest discussion on how to make "them" become part of "us". It's "We the People", not "God save the King and his Lords", after all.

Haele

[Mountainman]

31. Now that's the "right" way to see this thread.

Being callous about the plight of others is the right wing way of seeing this tread.

[uppityperson]

32. Sometimes search is instructive.

[kath]

33. Indeed, search is VERY informative.

Loves me that search function!!

[uppityperson]

34. It be gone. Too easy.

[kath]

36. hmmm - I wonder which post did it in??

So sad...

[salin]

42. I live on a fraction of that

but don't have kids - so my expenses are much less.

I own a home outright, a two year old prius (out right), and am trying to challenge myself to sock away at least 1K a month.

But for much of my adult life before 35 I was either working nonprofit, or in school. I learned to live without a lot of things - and have kept living that way even after I started earning much more.

I look back and don't know how I did it, but I lived in the SF Bay Area in the mid nineties on barely 20k. Granted it was just me (no dependents), so the costs were lower - but at that time the region was noted as having the highest cost of living in the country. It can be done. It is very, very hard - but it can be done. (And I got a heck of an education - without accruing any debt; granted I also accrued zero savinsg.)

Most of my friends from college early on found that they had accrued a lot of debts. About ten years out I remember running into a number who would state something (with a bit of condescension) that they would love to pursue their passions work-wise (I was working to prevent drop-out in Detroit at the time), but that they couldn't afford the pay (as they had such large financial commitments. I hadn't thought it about it until that period of life - the idea that we learn to spend up to our income. Thus when I finally started making a real income (all things relative - a fraction of yours but a *huge* increase in mine) I consciously tried to keep spending at my previous income level. While it has worked to my advantage, I do have constant fears that what I am able to save and try to invest will *never* be enough for retirement, or be prepared if a serious health issue arises.

I agree with you about taxation. I work with families that have a parent (or in some cases two parents) that work 2 or more low-wage jobs - and find filling the gas tank a challenge. The daily life choices these folks make are astounding. Meanwhile to the 'little to no taxation for the rich and corporations' folks have left local, state and federal coffers strapped leading to extreme erosions of safety nets. :-(

[cutlassmama]

39. I get FAR, FAR less than that on disability and get "by"

[salin]

40. I *loved* living in No Cal, but I left for two reasons:

1) as one who works in nonprofits I would never make enough money to live (and rent - forget owning) and being able to save anything at all for emergencies, let alone for retirement; and

2) my family was more than 2000k away, and after living most of my adult life away from family, I had a little bit of homing instincts.

I miss No Cal. I miss being able to take a quick drive out to the Ocean, or a bit longer (but not long) drive out to the mountains. There is much to miss, and if I could have afforded to live (and save a little) on a nonprofit salary, I probably would have stayed put.

Now I have family, own (outright) a home, and have socked some away in savings (and meager investments). But I recognize that living in many markets, I could not be doing that with my salary.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

44. I wish I made 46K?!

[Silver Swan]

47. Did you notice

That three out of the five jobs listed that require a masters degree paid less than $46,360.00.

Education isn't a way to a higher paying job in this economy.

[elehhhhna]

48. lol..."Bookie" is number 26?

26. Gaming and sports book writers and runners
2006 employment: 18,000
2016 projection: 24,000
Percent growth: 28
Salary range: Less than $21,220
Education/training: On-the-job training