There is an extremely serious point to be cleared up here regarding the "McClurkin Affair."

[Tyler Durden]

Barack Obama has stirred an enmity that seems to require clarification. I know that as a Straight White Male of 55 I'm pretty close to being everyone's asshole, but I am also an atheist, an ex-hippie, and a Vietnam War Protester, so that DOES make me sort of part of a minority.

To the issue:

The "Donnie McClurkin Affair" is still STRONGLY resonating. The reason for this is the absence of any comments from Obama not just distancing himself from the blatant Religiously Homophobic comments of McClurkin, but the absolute disavowal of the bigoted nature of these comments declaring homosexuality an evil that Jesus had cured him of.

Mind you, as a side issue, it must be remembered that McClurkin was making these comments while he was doing exactly what Obama said he would not be doing, that is, acting as the Master of Ceremonies for an Obama supporting event.

To understand the depth of this feeling, one must have a sense of discrimination on a basis that is part and parcel of the person who is the victim of such discrimination. This should be obvious to any woman, black person, "hippie", anti-Vietnam war protester from 197x, or, as in this case, a gay man or woman. There isn't any way to describe being marginalized, other than to experience it; but there is actually a worse situation: to have this crime MINIMIZED by someone who has not experienced it, does not recognize it or otherwise. To have the feeling that one's suffering was "...no big deal..." is so hateful that you have to experience it to understand it. I have.

To expect LGBT people to go along with the "big tent/'...no more identity politics...'" excuse without so much as a comment is worse than nonsensical; it is naive.

This being said, it is acknowledged that any Republican Nominee is completely unacceptable to LGBT people (with the exception of the Log Cabin Republicans. I can't understand them either). It is also acknowledged that as some were going to "hold their nose" and vote for certain other Democrats should they be nominated, it is completely illogical to expect LGBT people to do anything else should Barack Obama become the nominee without showing his support for their community. The same is true of us not of that community but in solidarity with it.

We shall not "call you out" on what is perceived as your tolerance for bigotry, no matter how close to the margins it is, but you on the other hand must not expect that your "...oh come ON, it's not that bad..." or "...don't you see, he NEEDS South Carolina..." rationalizations will be welcomed with anything less than scorn.

Despite the somewhat Pollyanna feelings of a few, this is shaping up to be a most contentious and possibly divisive nominating and election process here on the Democratic side of the fence. Early in the process, candidates have come very close to burning bridges and perhaps it would be very wise of their supporters to use kid gloves when dealing with the groups on the other sides of those bridges still smoldering.

Here endeth the lesson.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Meh. The other two contenders aren't any better.

:shrug:

[Tyler Durden]

2. Edwards is MARGINALLY better.

I know that's like being slightly pregnant.

Yeah, I'm tired of grasping at straws and suffering lousy candidates, too.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. No he's not.

He's against gay marriage too.

[Tyler Durden]

4. That's where the "Marginal" part comes in.

He's spoken out for LGBT Medical issues, especially HIV.

That gets him only 1/2 a point in my book.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Sounds like hypocritical hair splitting to me.

[Tyler Durden]

9. How can you do anything BUT that in this fucking election?

Show me ONE CANDIDATE who stuck to their guns and showed themselves a true progressive. There isn't ONE.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. This sounds cynical...

but if all three candidates are homophobes the only real thing to do is focus on some other issue where there's a legimate difference.

[Tyler Durden]

13. Yes, it does, yes it is, and what other CHOICE do we have?

It makes me long for the fall of civilization. Maybe the next time we'd get it RIGHT.

Yeah.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Secretly, I'm hoping for a Jimmy Carter.

Back in his Gubernatorial race, Carter reached out to white supremacists. I'm talking real dirty "segregation forever" style fuckheads. As soon as he got the vote and got in office, he told the racists to fuck off, apologized to the black community, and did everything in his power to help them.

It's probably wishful thinking.

But sometimes candidates, even good ones, have to play dirty politics.

[Tyler Durden]

17. I remember that well.

We can but hope, but I'm really tired of the centrist tripe that's being palmed off as "Holy Writ."

Hope in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first. I want ACTION and I don't think this guy's up to it. We shall see.

[readmoreoften]

53. Gay marriage is not the only issue.

Edwards has come forward on transgender health issues, saying that trans people should receive equality in medical treatment. This is a huge issue for us and one that isn't tied to status quo Dem politics.

Obama has also stated that he thinks marriage SHOULD BE a state issue. This concerns me. How will this effect immigration of gay couples from separate nations? How will it effect MY emigration if I move out of state?

[MuseRider]

79. Thanks I did not know

that Edwards supports equality in medical care for the transgendered. That really is huge. That really is great news.

[Tyler Durden]

5. Well, I thought it was important. Guess people would rather FLAME than understand.

Sure stirred up a flame fest in another thread.

[MuseRider]

6. Have I told you

lately that I love you? Slim Whitman version complete with popping heads..............not yours.

I can't even begin to describe how painful this is to me as an ally, I can't imagine how it feels to be part of the group sustaining all the minimization of their feelings and their very lives.

What I do not understand is the rationalization. I know, I keep bringing it up but WTF? If I was an Obama supporter I would have dropped him flat but those who have not should at least be bitching up a storm trying to force the man to do the right thing and apologize. Don't you think? Instead we get hundreds of posts with his GLBT policies with the spitting, "SEEE? So there." He pandered and sold out an entire group of people who are discriminated against and have never been accepted in our society as equal citizens. Sometimes I just have to walk away. It is too sad that there is so little empathy or even an attempt to listen and understand here these days. I could not give one flying fuck if Obama wears angel wings, he needs to account for this. It may not bring him into good standing but it will at least look a little bit like he understands and cares.

If he stands for hope then who is getting to experience that hope? It sounds like it is limited to me.

[Tyler Durden]

11. I swear, if I hear his voice with "HOPE" one more time.....

I didn't want HOPE this election. I wanted a JUNKYARD DOG to kick ass on the rePukes and their racist, bigoted fellow travelers.

It seems like the only hopes I have left is for something better after the collapse, because none of these posers is going to pull our chestnuts out of the fire, IM not so humble H.

[MuseRider]

18. Oh god do we ever need

a rough, stand up, junkyard dog more than ever. Someone to shock this nation into seeing how truly small and broke we are and why.

I have to make nice here to get things done but it is oh so very hard.

Federally we need to kick ass and take names to pull this country out of it's oh so self important, rah rah we are #1, doltish slumber. I am afraid that collapse is coming but the way things are now I fear that the dog eat dog world out there now will be the only world to come out of it. I am certainly glad I am old enough to be able to say that I had a nice time, I'm ready to go.

Until then there is nothing more important than equality for me. I may get sad, I may back away for a little while but I see that I am very much in good company so we will continue.

Hey! I think you fired me up! Thanks, I needed that. :)

[Tyler Durden]

23. Wouldn't you LOVE a president who said...

"Hey, FUCK YOU!" when the situation OBVIOUSLY REQUIRED IT?

GOD, I think it would restore my faith in humanity.

[MuseRider]

28. LOL yes, as a matter of fact I would love that.

I also would like him/her to say more than anything, "EVERYONE is equal. If you do not like that then you are going to have to at least learn to keep your fucking mouth shut, your hands to yourselves and live with it." I mean really, how hard is that? It is constitutional so why shy away from it? Come on people! Is this America or is it not America?

Yes, a good "fuck you" would go a long way to stopping some of this crap. At least it would get people's attention long enough for them to close their own mouths. :) Mine included :).

[Tyler Durden]

30. I love your clarinet, by the way.

I've been living in the hinterlands far too long. There was a great jazz club off the strip in Galveston that had that in NEON over the door, 15' long! Needless to say, in Texas they didn't last very long.

[MuseRider]

35. Oh man

I did not see that! I have a great picture of a large Trumpet over a club from Galveston. I was there with my brother who was doing some musical directing for The Strand and we spent the day looking at all the great places there. He died of HIV/AIDS 5 years ago. I saw your post about your friends death. I am so sorry.

[Tyler Durden]

72. It was a Coronet!!!!

DAMN it's been a long time, and it sucks to be getting old and forgetful!

You've got it right, but I still love your Clarinet. Perhaps if I hadn't been STONED when going to that club I'd have remembered better!

[MuseRider]

76. :) n/t

[Chovexani]

7. Thank you.

Really. Thank you. :hug:

[Tyler Durden]

12. No, Thank YOU.

It is so HARD to keep hearing the broken promises, the failed terms of office, YEAR after YEAR.

Then to have someone preach HOPE out of one side of their mouth and doubletalk out of the other.

Yeah, he'll make a GREAT Politician. That's not a complement by the way.

[GirlinContempt]

15. Isn't this comment

disavowing and distancing himself from the statements?

"I have consistently spoken directly to African-American religious leaders about the need to overcome the homophobia that persists in some parts our community so that we can confront issues like HIV/AIDS and broaden the reach of equal rights in this country," Obama said. "I strongly believe that African Americans and the LGBT community must stand together in the fight for equal rights. And so I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin's views and will continue to fight for these rights as president of the United States to ensure that America is a country that spreads tolerance instead of division."

[JuniperLea]

19. Got link?

I've never heard this before. Still, talk is cheap... and actions speak far louder than words.

[peacebaby3]

34. Not sure if this is an exact link, but covers this and a lot more. He also has an 89%

voting record rating with HRC.

<http://outfordemocracy.org/arch/000649.html>

[JuniperLea]

41. Thanks! Do you happen to know why...

You can't look at his campaign site without first subscribing? I really hate that.

[peacebaby3]

45. There is a link right below "join the campaign" that says continue to the

site. They want you to join, but you certainly aren't required to view the site.

Here's a direct link:

<http://www.barackobama.com/index.php>

I don't think you should even have to go to the front page with this link.

[JuniperLea]

52. Thanks! eom

[GirlinContempt]

40. Sure

I found it here
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/23/obama-takes-heat-for-link-to-mcclurkin/

[Tyler Durden]

20. As long as he wants me on the same side with his "well meaing" homophobes...

(those were my quotes)

...by saying that the "Identity Politics" of the 90's are gone....

Being a homosexual and standing up for your rights is "Identity Politics??"

Sorry, but it's too soon to tout Obama to me. The wounds are fresh. Wait a month or so.

[GirlinContempt]

42. I'm just saying

that he did say he disagreed with the statements made and didn't support them.

[mondo joe]

67. Actions speak louder the words. If he really didn't agree, Obama shouldn't have

given him a platform to spew bigotry.

[GirlinContempt]

68. And I made no comment

on his actions.

[mondo joe]

70. No, but my point is that his actions don't reflect his statements. So I don't

give a lot of credit to his words.

[GirlinContempt]

71. That's fine.

I don't know why, but I can just be a stickler about stuff like that. Maybe just because I see a lot of stuff go way downhill way fast because of misunderstandings and miscommunications. When I see stuff I know isn't true, I'll correct it regardless of my feelings on the matter at hand. I'm being literal, don't mind me :)

[hulklogan]

21. Obama's constant depiction of HIV/AIDS as a primary GLBT issue

Is one of the things that makes me think he just doesn't 'get it'. We've owned the HIV/AIDS issue in the GLBT community for almost 30 years now.

Obama's statement shows that he still doesn't understand the hurt and betrayal that many GLBT Americans feel as a result of his embrace of bigotry. If he strongly disagrees with McClurkin's views, why did he proclaim him one of his favorite singers and hire him to MC a campaign event? I don't believe a word of it.

[Chovexani]

24. No, it's not

Not when his campaign comes out with "we got what we needed"* and has done zero to reach out to the black LGBT community, or the LGBT community as a whole since then.

Jesus, how hard is it to just admit that he fucked up royally on this? Are y'all that wedded to this cult of personality?


* http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0711/S00439.htm

[GirlinContempt]

43. I'm not 'wedded' to his anything.

I just remembered reading that. You can still be pissed off or whatever, but it isn't like he never said anything and openly agreed with what McClurkin said. That's all.

[yardwork]

26. If he strongly disagrees with McClurkin's views, why did he give McClurkin the soapbox?

I happen to believe that Obama is not homophobic. I also happen to believe that his use of McClurkin was pandering to the homophobic, plain and simple. Who will Obama pander to next? He's already in bed with the health insurance industry. It disappoints me to see this behavior defended. Obama may be our best candidate. That doesn't mean he's perfect. I'll be damned if I shut my mouth about bad behavior just because a Democrat does it.

[GirlinContempt]

44. I'm not defending anything.

I just think it's disingenuous to claim he never made a statement disavowing or distancing himself from McClurkin's views.

[FredScuttle]

58. He may have issued a statement distancing himself from the "ex-gay" clown BEFORE the concert

but, curiously, why did the Obama campaign issue, after the concert and the "ex-gay" clown's homophobic rant on the campaign event stage, a press release that seemed to many of us to be defending the "ex-gay" clown?

"MCCLURKIN DOES NOT WANT TO CHANGE GAYS AND LESBIANS WHO ARE HAPPY WITH THEIR LIVES"

http://www.americablog.com/2007/10/obama-issues-3-page-memo-explaining.html

Seems like Obama was telling the LGBT community that you better be happy little gays, or else he's going to sic Pastor Donnie on your ass!

[mondo joe]

31. That's like saying "The jury will ignore the prosecution's slander" in a court.

He can say he disagrees. But who gave him the forum to say it in the first place?

Hell, it's too kind an analogy because in a court the judge doesn't know every objectionable thing that will happen. But Obama knew. And let it happen anyway.

[sendero]

80. No,.....

.... that is called saying one thing while doing another. In the world of talk vs action, I'll take actions every time.

It is much like what HRC does all the time, vote for something pernicious and indefensible, and then issue a statement about why her vote means the opposite of what it does.

In fact, I consider Obama's entire campaign style to be HRC with a dollop of "hope".

[hulklogan]

16. From one side of a smoldering bridge I say 'excellent post!' n/t

[Name removed]

22. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yardwork]

25. Thank you very much.

As a lesbian, I have really tried not to be an asshole about this issue. I've tried not to fall into politics of divisiveness. I don't intend to come off as demanding that any candidate show special favoritism to any demographic group.

The McClurkin issue has really upset me, mainly because many straight posters on DU have dismissed concerns about the incident in insulting, demeaning terms. Those of us who raised concern about the incident have been told that we are engaging in "faux outrage." We've been told that we are secret Hillary supporters. We've been told that we're hypocrites for pointing out one example of homophobia while supposedly "ignoring" others. We've been told that "90% of Christians in the United States would drop their support for Obama if he apologized." We've been told that "scientific studies" prove that gay people make up only 1.2% of the population, so we don't matter anyway. We've been told by posters that their Christian beliefs demand that they consider gays to be an abomination. We've been told that that attitude is not bigotry because their religion requires it. And, over and over and over, we've been told to "get over it."

The McClurkin incident itself, as bad as it was, pales compared to the insulting way in which people's concerns about it have been mocked, ridiculed, and dismissed.

Returning to the incident itself, I am discouraged that so many supposedly progressive DUers dismiss it or compare it to simply having homophobic people working for one's campaign. Obama did not merely "ask McClurkin to sing." Obama invited McClurkin to headline and emcee a major campaign event, and allowed McClurkin at least a half hour to speak to the crowd, during which he repeated his oft-repeated belief that being gay is akin to being a murderer, and that only through the intercession of God can gay people be saved from eternal damnation.

If ANY other minority were attacked in this way, nobody on DU would question the outrage.

[Tyler Durden]

You couldn't BE more right.

It was the "gee, get OVER it! Barack's so COOL!" all the fucking time that was making me get to the point of mayhem.

Maybe if one of these people had our personal experiences, they wouldn't feel so cavalier about it.

[yardwork]

37. Some of them haven't had our personal experiences because they're too uptight.

My assumption is that most of the "get over it" posts come from people who are afraid of gay people and therefore have no gay friends. Too bad for them.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

75. I understand what you are saying

However, as an Obama supporter I'm getting tired of people demanding that we must stop supporting him over this, or else we're homophobic bigots on a par with McClurkin. They are every bit as arrogant and presumptious as straight people dismissing your feelings. Some of the outrage over this is genuine, but some of it is clearly control freaks who want to be obeyed. They've contributed their share to the degeneration of the discussion.

"If ANY other minority were attacked in this way, nobody on DU would question the outrage"

Ever seen any of the threads about obese people? How about the lovely misogyny that is such a frequent feature of this site?

[Beausoir]

27. How am I supposed to vote for someone who purposely hired a gay basher?

How can I do it?

Thank you for your well thought out post.
You put things much more eloquently than I could.

[Tyler Durden]

29. The same way we were expected to hold our noses and vote for Hilary.

See, it's only if it's not one's own personal ox being gored that one should be asked to overlook it.

What utter horseshit.

I'm so tired of politics, but what else is there? These guys have their FOOT on our NECKS.

[libnnc]

32. You "get" it. I wish others did.

Thank you.

All Obama has to do is apologize and stand up to the conservative, religious element in his own community. If he did, then all would be forgiven on my end. But I'm afraid that yet again, we're going to be the muddied political football kicked between two candidates who are trying to "out Jesus" each other.

Here we go again...

[Ignis]

33. The cry of "identity politics" is such a farce.

How could anyone who grew up as a minority in the US not understand that? Like you, I'm very disappointed that Obama hasn't apologized for this incident.

Thanks for keeping this topic alive. Some of us aren't going to forget it easily.

[Lex]

36. It sucks and it's scary

about McClurkin.

[Gonzo Gardener]

38. K&R

:applause:

[bullwinkle428]

39. Excellent post, TD! I'm willing to make a vow

(NOT a loyalty oath, BTW) now, that if Obama is the Democratic nominee, I will not only vote for him, but will do all of the necessary work (canvassing, phone-banking, etc.) associated with getting out the vote, simply because the stakes are too high to even think about risking another 4 years of being ruled by dirty, filthy Neander-Cons.

HOWEVER, I'm not willing to forget about that whole pathetic episode in South Carolina, and this will just make me even more attuned to anything Obama says or does in the area of civil rights...

If Obama can actually win the Presidency, he will have opportunities beyond his wildest dreams to leave a legacy that will be marveled at by generations to come (not unlike * right after 9/11) - I just hope that opportunity isn't squandered...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

46. Where, outside of a small corner of the lefty blogosphere, is the McClurkin thing resonating?

Let alone STRONGLY. Please.

I have a challenge for you: Pick 20 random people at your local shopping mall and ask if they know anything about it. I'd shit a brick if one single person did.

Then just to make the odds more favorable to you, walk into a local gay watering hole and do the same thing. Even then, you'd be hard pressed to find a soul who knew about it.

I recently asked just about every GLBT activist that I know about the McClurkin concert and what they thought about it. You know what? Only one had heard about it. He didn't think it was a big deal. These are GLBT activists, mind you.

At the night of the much agonized (on DU anyway) concert 14 LGBT activists* managed to make it out there to protest it.

Fourteen.

You'd think something that was such a huge affront to a community would muster more people from that community, wouldn't you?

*On edit: Actually 15 to 20 protesters showed up. Still, hardly evidence of a STRONGLY resonating issue.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/obamas-gospel-concert-tour/

[LostinVA]

47. I find it amazing that someone with your avatar doesn't see the problem with it

[mrreowwr_kittty]

49. Did I ever say I didn't see a problem with it?

I find people's ability to project things onto me amazing. I'm telling you that other people, including GLBTs, are not sharing in your outrage about the McClurkin. I'm merely pointing out the astounding level of dissonance in so many DUers where this is concerned. That doesn't mean I think Donnie is a nice, harmless man. He's not. But the amount of sheer vitriol being leveled at a candidate, one with an excellent record on gay rights BTW, because of a freaking gospel concert is just stupid. People on DU are acting like he picked McClurkin to be his running mate or something.

Oh, and you must have been AMAZED by last night's results.

[LostinVA]

60. "Oh, and you must have been AMAZED by last night's results"

??? I have no idea what that means.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

62. You're easily amazed. nt

[LostinVA]

63. Still don't get your point, although it seems to be getting personal now

For some reason. Whatever.

[hulklogan]

48. I'm proud of the 14-20 brave protesters

Even if the McClurkin Affair only hurt one person, it still wouldn't be right.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

50. Yes.

15 to 20 people WERE brave enough, and good for them. Too bad more of their counterparts couldn't have joined them to make it a more meaningful gesture.

Thank you for editing your comment.

[MuseRider]

51. Ahhhh I see.

Nobody knows about it so we should all just shrug our shoulders and let it go away. People you know don't know about it except for one and your gay friends don't care so we should just let it go away. I can tell you that my friends know about it and are not going to let it go and this is a large activist group in Kansas of all places. Your little experience is just that, little. My little experience is just that, little. Doesn't matter, it was wrong and offensive and scary to pander to people who would lock up some of our citizens in camps and pray the gay away. It is dangerous. Still, we should just forget this happened?

That isn't really what you are saying is it?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

55. No I'm not saying that at all. Keep demanding that Obama apologize.

I've got an idea! How about contacting the Obama campaign about it? Have you ever done that? Or do you confine your complaining to the rest of the choir here on DU?

BTW, I sure hope you support Kucinich because none of the other candidates are squeaky clean when it comes to gay rights.

[MuseRider]

64. I have always supported Kucinich.

As far as your comment about all I do, well sweetie, that pisses me off a bit but I will let it slide. I have contacted Obama through an organization that I belong to. Funny, the response was kinda like what I see here. No biggie. How's THAT for hope.

I would like to say more but I am in between jobs and will not be back for a while.

Really. This had nothing to do with my questions, it feels very much like an attack to distract. I will not be distracted and I will not stop until this is settled properly.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

74. Boo hoo. Poor little attacked you.

If you contacted Obama already and got a response (whether or not you found it satisfactory) then why are you asking his supporters? Oh, I know, because you think we should obediently stop supporting him because you say so.

Sorry, control freak, ain't gonna happen.

[MuseRider]

77. What a kind response.

Control freak? I have no control nor do I want any, I simply asked you some questions that you apparently could not or would not answer. That is fine but the attack instead of answers was a little over the line to me. So your response is to paint me as a baby?

Listen, I am not feeling attacked personally, at least not yet. I am feeling like I live in a country full of people who will excuse anything as long as it does not personally affect them. Let things like this slide and it will be all of us at some point. I don't even give a shit about that, this is what is happening now and it has to stop. Oh yes, it is just the GLBT's, there are not enough of them to worry about huh? At least not enough for you and some others to see fault with "your guy". I never called him a bad man but this is a bad thing that he did. So he is human and you and others can't even let that be and will paint discrimination as no biggie. What does that say? How do you suppose that makes people feel? Like shit maybe? Like trash maybe? Like they don't count maybe? Like someone who foments violence against them should be part of the campaign of someone who may be their next president and they should just let it go? Do you think that might be frightening? Do you really expect them to think that this was a one time thing? Once they get thrown under the bus for bigot votes all the "good" GLBT things he has done are set back a long way and you expect them to let that slide? Do you think maybe they are tired of not feeling safe in their own country and then this happens? WTF are you thinking? These are people just like you and just like me and they are treated like second class citizens at best and in many cases afraid every single damned day when they go to work. Afraid their boss might find out and fire them and they have no recourse and a potential block when they apply somewhere else. I could go on but I am certain you have stopped reading because it is just not that big of a deal and those of us who are trying to push this because it is just plain the right thing to do are tainting "your guy". OK, so if civil rights are not a big deal just what the fuck is?

His response? We got what we wanted. Boom, none of you count, at least not while there is an election to win but don't worry your pretty little heads. I won't govern like this, K? Promise, cross my heart. :eyes:

All I was really asking his supporters to do was the right thing. Bummer it is just too much.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

81. What, exactly, is the right thing for his supporters to do?

Having McClurkin appear for him was wrong. He should have disinvited him. You'll not find anyone here who disagrees with that. And you'll never hear me telling you that your feelings are invalid. So what do you want from us? You say you want questions answered but when we answer you don't accept it. I can only conclude you want us to stop supporting him. I definitely get the sense from the post you just made that anything less than a complete rejection of our candidate, because he won't respond to the McClurkin incident exactly the way the lefty blogosphere commands him to, is collusion with homophobic bigots. You are entitled to feel that way but don't expect me to jump to comply with your demand.

If you already got your response from Obama, and you're not trying to command us to stop supporting him, then what do you want from us supporters? Wear a hairshirt and flog ourselves? Abandon Obama and get on the Clinton bandwagon, because she only hires homophobes and gets public endorsements from them but that's totally different from having one get on stage for her so she's okee-dokee? John Edwards, who said that his Christianity forbids him to support full marriage equity? Kucinich, who is about as good as it gets on LGBT issues but has about as much chance of being elected as my dog?

Of course, I'll never support Kucinich because he was anti-choice until just recently, and I don't know if I could trust him not to reverse on that. But I don't expect you to stop because of that if he's your guy. Nor do I DEMAND answers from his supporters on the probability of his future actions.

"His response? We got what we wanted. Boom, none of you count, at least not while there is an election to win but don't worry your pretty little heads. I won't govern like this, K? Promise, cross my heart."

Has he ever given reason to believe that he wouldn't govern the right way? What's his record on LGBT issues?

[MuseRider]

82. You appear to be reading a lot

into my posts. That is OK, this is a nasty issue and emotions are high and quite frankly I am sick and not thinking as clearly as I wish I was but I will answer and I promise not to get snarky because I think we can come to some agreement here.

No, I am not asking you to stop supporting him. I do find people here who support what he did, they were out front for a while and probably either not commenting anymore or I put them on ignore, something I am loathe to do but it has certainly helped me keep from popping a blood vessel.

The questions have not been answered. Putting out his LGBT platform, giving us statistics about his LGBT support do not answer the question. He may say those things and I actually suspect he might mean them but I am not certain he means them enough anymore. I am actually not looking for answers but an apology. Now that may seem a bit presumptuous of me to ask the great one (OK a little snark but I would use that against anyone who did what he did and was defended for it) to say he made a huge mistake. This man wants to be our president, he owes an apology to those he offended. He put them at risk and then he minimized their feelings about it (we got what we wanted). He has gone on to speak of hope and healing of divisions yet he created no hope and created division by sectioning off a part of our society and said, without saying the words himself, that they meant less to him than the potential votes he was getting. I think they are owed an apology, not a dismissal.

Bringing in Edwards, Clinton are beside the point and have nothing at all to do with what Obama did, he owns it. Is it so unreasonable to ask for him to be accountable for making a huge and hurtful mistake?

All I ask is for his supporters to stop hurting people and if they don't think calling this a small, insignificant incident is hurting people then I wonder if they ever even feel it when they cut themselves. It is cold blooded. Write to him. We have but it is more difficult to get an answer as someone who cannot call or write as a supporter and our response was less than adequate. You know how difficult it is even as a supporter or a citizen to get any of them to respond. He may very well win this thing. I want to know if he can acknowledge a mistake and have the compassion and guts to apologize for it. I want to know if he is responsive to us as citizens when we have a problem with something. If a leader is allowed to lead without criticism then things will build from where they are now. I am not saying he would do this but if he believes that this was a small and insignificant incident what is to say that he will not think it is OK and move on from that point if no one speaks up? Blind faith is not going to cut it. He has to hear from all of us. We do not want him crucified we want him to acknowledge his mistake and make amends to those hurt by it. I do not think that is unreasonable, especially since he is running to lead the country.

I am speaking for myself, not for the GLBT community as I am an ally and activist and not a member. If I am being unreasonable do not fry them for it, it is just me.

BTW. Kucinich did explain is great detail why he changed his mind on choice. He has stated repeatedly that pro choice is a litmus test for him. I know, it is really hard to know any of this because who even knows he is running? :( Your guy has the mike and the power to make this all go away. He really needs to do it for our country, we have to climb out of this angry mess we are in and this was not a step forward.

One more thing then I am out of here for a while.

"Has he ever given reason to believe that he wouldn't govern the right way? What's his record on LGBT issues?"

His record is about the same as the others, not great but better than many. Yes, this incident led me to believe he just might govern the wrong way on these issues.

Edit to say that I do appreciate Obama standing up for Kucinich concerning the debate tonight. See? I am not totally unreasonable :)

[readmoreoften]

54. Yup. If the MSM doesn't cover it like Martha Stewart, it doesn't really matter.

It was just a private little nod from Obama to the anti-gay evangelical community. Wink-wink, nudge-nudge.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

56. Way to smear the people at the concert. Nice going.

Because we know that everyone really goes to gospel concerts to receive secret homophobic messages. The funny thing is, how is all that winking and nudging going to help him with those "anti-gay evangelicals" when they look at his actual voting record.

That must be some powerful winking and nudging there.

[FredScuttle]

57. When the "ex-gay" clown proclaimed from the stage "God delivered me from homosexuality"

and those religious bigots in the crowd stood and cheered loudly, what precisely are we supposed to call them? Are supposed to show deference and respect to bigoted morons who don't show an ounce of respect to the LGBT community?

When I see a bigot, I call him or her a bigot and make it my duty to shame them. I don't reach out to them, I don't try to understand them, I don't try to walk in their shoes...I point and go "look at the bigot moron in front of us!"

[Prism]

65. Thank You

There is this strange dissonance between what I read on blogs and here over the McClurkin issue and what is discussed between my friends and the local community.

I don't think anyone discounts the stupidity in Obama's choice of McClurkin, intentional or not.

But Obama has the best record on LGBT rights of the Democratic candidates. Nevermind that he gives speeches standing up for our dignity and equality in front of conservative Christian audiences.

Senator Clinton has never done that. Senator Edwards has never done that.

And yet, people want to ignore Obama's positions, his actions, and his actual fighting for our rights in the lion dens of bigotry because something like McClurkin? It seems very much like missing the forest for the trees to me.

Obama screwed up with McClurkin. He disavowed McClurkin's views. But he didn't do exactly what some on the blogs and forums thought he should've, and so they shall hate him forever - no matter how much he supports us.

Sounds more like wounded pride than thinking about what's best for our community in the long run. JMO.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

73. You got it. It's all about wounded pride. And missing the forest for the trees.

Much as I love the blogosphere, there is a tendency to engage in pointless collective mental masturbation on them. That and grossly overestimating the impact of their opinions on the outside world.

The McClurkin event was a tremendous gaffe on Obama's part but the level of outrage on this site has just gone off the charts. That Donnie McClurkin is held out as the MAIN reason not to support Obama is the height of absurdity. Donnie McClurkin eclipses the war, the economy, health care, everything. The really tragic irony is that for some people like this OP, it even trumps LGBT rights themselves. They'd be happy to see Mitt Romney in office, so long as that Obama got what was coming to him for not responding to McClurkin exactly the way they commanded.

[Bluebear]

78. Do provide a link & transcipt to one of these speeches "standing up for gays in church"

I keep hearing about them but have never actually read what was said.

[Prism]

83. Short video

Transcripts are little difficult to find (google anything about Obama, homophobia, and church, and you end up with several hundred thousand McClurkin articles).

Here's video from the Logo forum with Obama explaining what he told a gathering of ministers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iJS2fX3PaQ

Another episode that comes to mind is when Obama spoke at Rick Warren's church. The congregation was in an uproar over the senator's pro-gay and pro-choice positions. Yet there he was, speaking truth to people who desperately needed to hear it.

[NorthernSpy]

69. nowhere

If the McClurkin thing hadn't happened, the people who are so obsessively bashing Obama over this would be obsessively bashing him for something else.

[xchrom]

59. recommend

[Gloria]

61. Reminds me of Huckabee, decrying the neg. ad...then showing it

"Mind you, as a side issue, it must be remembered that McClurkin was making these comments while he was doing exactly what Obama said he would not be doing, that is, acting as the Master of Ceremonies for an Obama supporting event."

[MuseRider]

66. Very good. n/t