Ok, about the whole teaching creationism/evolution thing....

[Mother Of Four]

This is a branch off of this thread...but I felt it needed its own thread due to it being an idea.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2592457&mesg_id=2592457


I honestly think this would give the hard core bible thumpers a heart attack, but it's one way I see to really open the minds of our youth and let THEM DECIDE what to believe, if to believe...or not to believe at all.

Teach evolution in science, it's a much needed course. Learning how things change and develop, to me, is core in understanding how the world moves around us. Let our children explore all kinds of fact and theory, work those wonderful brains.

HOWEVER...also teach (in SOCIAL STUDIES!)

Hierology (Greek ιερος, hieros, "sacred" or "holy", + λογος, logos, "word" or "reason") refers to analysis and explanation through reasoned discourse of the sacred traditions or religions of the peoples of any time or place that tries to reconcile faith with reason. It especially refers to philosophical speculations about religion that involve the traditions of multiple cultures or belief systems. It differs from theology in that a god or gods are not necessarily a focus and in that it may include sources with no origin in Western philosophy or religion.

I had a FANTASTIC Social Studies teacher in high school, we'll call her Mrs. S

Each year she would take her summer vacation and go on hops (her husband was retired military) to places around the world. The following school year the lucky ones who got her class got a full 4 week study on beliefs, culture, music, god/gods/goddesses, economics etc from the area she visited.

Ours was Egypt...

In a word...WOW

She taught us about how religion had changed...what impact it had on the development of the society...the stories and different "roles" their gods played many thousands of years ago..and how they still effect things to this day.

When she would address a time/place...she made SURE to discuss the pertinent belief systems. In an UNBIASED and totally factual way. When she spoke of the Roman Empire, and the advent of Christendom...She was again very factual and up front about it.

She was so good at it, that my brother took her class two years before I did...

And neither of us knows what she personally believes.


On a side note...
I was FURIOUS with a substitute teacher who came into my daughters music class and asked all the kids what church they go to. (I live in the south, and we are the "odd ones")

My daughter was one of the last ones asked, and she stated very loud and proud "My parents let me believe what *I* want to, they don't make me go to church."

The way my daughter tells it, the whole class got dead silent...then erupted into laughs. The Sub didn't do a damn thing but say "Oh...well that's nice...confused..but nice" (Yes I filed a complaint)

My father fought my mother to keep me from being baptized into Catholisism... He was adamant that at least ONE of his children would grow to respect and learn about all sorts of beliefs before they chose for themselves what fit them, if any at all.

I've passed that same right on to my children, and educated them in different cultures as best I can. I truly feel this whole evolution/creationism fight is ridiculous.

Teach about ALL Cultures, in SOCIAL STUDIES...and teach about ALL Facts/theories...in Science.

Wala, dilemma solved.

[wtmusic]

1. It goes beyond teaching subjects in the proper context

into what weight is given them.

Natural selection is accountable for nothing less than how every living thing is structured. That is a fact.

Creationism is a belief held by some members of one religion of many, and as it already receives much attention outside of school in the US, it should receive a minute percentage of school time compared to teaching Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.

[Mother Of Four]

2. Allow me to clarify a little...

That's why I say that the whole evolution/creation argument is silly...

Hey..they want to teach religious beliefs? Give them more than what they ask for, give our kids access to ALL...like you said



"Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc."

By teaching it IN context and as part of a CULTURE (instead of as a science...Blech), that removes the "weight" creationism is given now. It would have no more wow factor than the stories of Isis...Zeus...Gaia...Thor...Odin...

Any of them.

[cynatnite]

3. They don't want creationism aka intelligent design...

taught in that context.

They want it taught in science and as a science giving it equal weight to evolution. Period. No compromising.

[Mother Of Four]

4. I understand what you're saying...

Maybe I'm giving too much credit to these people, of them maybe having the sense to realize that the only way they (the small minority) will actually be able to get what they want taught in schools is to have it taught as part of cultural studies.

I know a good amount of parents at my childrens schools that want religion taught, but when you sit them down and actually talk to them about it...

They are more than happy to have it be a part of Cultural Studies, the ones I know just want the option open for their kids instead of them being taught there is only one way, non-faith. (their words, not mine)

[cynatnite]

5. As a part of cultural studies....

totally agree. Except it should be taught in college. Not high school. I know a lot of folks would disagree, but I just prefer that any religion, no matter the context, should be taught in college. Just how I feel.

[wtmusic]

8. Double-edged sword

I didn't learn anything about Islam until I was well out of college, and I learned it on my own. Not that classes weren't available in college, but they certainly weren't taught in my high school.

The omission of education about other religions only reinforces intolerance and the idea in kids' minds that their religion is the "right" one. IMO.

[pop goes the weasel]

6. yes, you are giving them too much credit

What do you expect would be their reaction if their particular religion was to be placed in its cultural context and not taught as The Truth? I have taught about religious developments in college history classes, and the conservative Christians freak out even there that their own sect's interpretation of Christianity is recent or far less than universal. And they sure don't want to hear about it if there was a major embarrassment, like breaking away into a southern denomination because of support for slavery. Objectively taught cultural and historical studies can be just as damaging to dogmatism as science.

[orleans]

7. screw them. they deserve nothing from the idea of teaching kids

religion in public school--i don't care where it is placed or placed under

"Tammy Kitzmiller, et al. v. Dover Area School District, et al., Case No. 04cv2688, was the first direct challenge brought in the United States federal courts against a public school district that required the presentation of "Intelligent Design" as an alternative to evolution as an "explanation of the origin of life." The plaintiffs successfully argued that intelligent design is a form of creationism, and that the school board policy thus violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The judge's decision has sparked considerable response from both supporters and critics.

"Eleven parents of students in Dover, Pennsylvania, near York, sued the Dover Area School District over a statement that the school board required be read aloud in ninth-grade science classes when evolution was taught. The plaintiffs were represented by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), Americans United for Separation of Church and State (AU) and Pepper Hamilton LLP. The National Center for Science Education (NCSE) acted as consultants for the plaintiffs. The defendants were represented by the Thomas More Law Center (TMLC). The Foundation for Thought and Ethics, publisher of a textbook advocating intelligent design titled Of Pandas and People, tried to join the lawsuit as a defendant but was denied.<1>

"The suit was brought in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania seeking injunctive relief. Since it sought an equitable remedy there was no right to a jury trial; the Seventh Amendment did not apply. It was tried in a bench trial from September 26, 2005 to November 4, 2005 before Judge John E. Jones III. On December 20, 2005 Judge Jones issued his 139-page findings of fact and decision, ruling that the Dover mandate was unconstitutional, and barring intelligent design from being taught in Pennsylvania's Middle District public school science classrooms. The eight Dover school board members who voted for the intelligent design requirement were all defeated in a November 8, 2005 election by challengers who opposed the teaching of intelligent design in a science class, and the current school board president stated that the board does not intend to appeal the ruling.<2>



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District

[Mother Of Four]

9. You do realize...?

That by wanting to omit ALL study of any form of religion in any context you are then telling the schools they can NOT teach -

Certain Forms of Poetry
Shakespeare
Mythology

You are also telling children that they can't learn about different areas of History like the background of King Tuts tomb, the rise and fall of the Egyptian Empire, Nazi Germany/ Attempted Genocide of the Jewish people, The Inquisition, The Pilgrims and the Puritans, Mayans/Incans/Aztecs, The background and battles of our immigrations to the continent - and the reasons the indigenous people were slaughtered.

You are even telling our children that they can NOT learn about how our country came to be, because part of us becoming a nation was for RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.

The one thing all cultures have in common, is some form of worship. Whether it is honoring ancestors, nature, "Gods", or a ruler.

How would you explain the Pyramids, the Taj Mahal, the Sistine Chapel, Half the art in the Louvre, Runic writings...

By Omitting "religion in public school--i don't care where it is placed or placed under" you are literally depriving our children of a HUGE chunk of Social History.