Was just anyone allowed to caucus?

[kevinbgoode]

Please tolerate my bit of ignorance here, but I was reading in another thread that referenced a very good Newsweek story about one of the caucuses in Iowa - it's a good story and very insightful about the process, so I appreciate the OP giving us this link.

Now here is my concern, and this is NOT...I repeat NOT...directed against or for ANY campaign.

On caucus night, I was in a discussion forum with some longtime online buds discussing the results, and he remarked that one of his friends (a precinct captain in Iowa) noticed not only a large influx of people into the caucuses, but that people kept mentioning that many of them had never been seen before in the neighborhood. My buddy also mentioned that his friend thought there were a lot of "former" Bush supporters working for Obama. Now, before any Obama supporters get upset about this, let me just say here that it could be about ANY of the candidates.

Anyway, while I'm reading this little Newsweek story, the writer points out something at the beginning:

"Two days earlier, Hagerty, a Ankeny Democrat who was then "considering several candidates," stopped by an Obama houseparty; her friend, the host, had voted for George W. Bush in 2000 and 2004, so she was intrigued."

I keep reading little tidbits here and there with references to former Bush supporters (and workers) who support Obama. Has ANYONE else seen anything about that? One buddy in another discussion forum told me that at one caucus, a lot of people coming in to participate had never been even seen before in the neighborhood. And here this story references that Man from the South who came up to caucus - was it really that easy?

"Edwards also gained in realignment, thanks to C. Carlyle Steele, a mysterious silver-tongued Southern lawyer in a blue blazer and boots who flew up from South Carolina for the occasion. If only Lyle Lanley were a Richardson fan.

The night's biggest loser? Clinton. Her sourpuss precinct captain, P.J. Yusten, spent most of her speech railing against Steele, an outsider. . ."


Ok...now I just have a few questions - could ANYONE just fly into the state and participate in these caucuses?

Oh...here is the little Newsweek story...it really is a nice read:

http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/01/03/inside-the-quaint-chaotic-caucuses.aspx#comments

[AzDar]

1. Kick..

:kick:

[uberblonde]

2. A Dodd staffer...

A friend of a friend, said there were many reports of people coming in from Illinois to caucus who insisted they were from Iowa - even though no one ever saw them or heard of them.

[taylor egv420106]

19. Bull

Those "examples" are found every four years by staffers of losing candidates who are never able to actually cite even a single nonviable registered participant.

Dick Gephardt lost his shot four years ago when he accused Dean of preparing to commit that fraud and when he was called on it could not actually back up his claim.

[kevinbgoode]

3. Well now, look at this from the Des Moines Register. . .

Now I'd like to know why we didn't get more information about this from the non-stop national MSM coverage? :

"Maybe we should call these the Illinois caucuses.

Officials and campaigners in both parties are worried that zealous out-of-state staffers and non-Iowa supporters of candidates may try to vote in the caucuses, thereby skewing the results.

On the Republican side, GOP officials are watching precincts in Council Bluffs and Davenport to make certain people aren't driving across the state line to participate. They are particularly concerned about Ron Paul's over-caffeinated backers."

---snip---


Party officials say it is easy to register as an Iowa voter and participate at a caucus. That openness may lead to fraud. While Republicans say they will ask people who want to register at the caucus to produce some sort of identification, even those questionable registrants will be allowed to cast ballots on caucus night. On the Democratic side, officials say no identification is required to register and vote in their caucuses.

Obama's campaign is telling Iowa college students they can caucus for him even if they aren't from Iowa. His campaign offers that advice in a brochure being distributed on college campuses in the state. A spokesman said 50,000 of the fliers are being distributed. It says: "If you are not from Iowa, you can come back for the Iowa caucus and caucus in your college neighborhood."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071211/OPINION01/712110372/1131/COMM09

[John Q. Citizen]

10. College students can vote either where they go to school, or where they

came from. They can't vote in both places.

This isn't new...

[Robbien]

13. Funny, Mayor Daley kept predicting an Obama win

It was all over the news here, constantly.

Hmmmm.

[kevinbgoode]

4. And this issue isn't just limited to this year's campaign:

Apparently this was a concern four years ago as well:

DES MOINES, Iowa (Reuters) - Democrat Richard Gephardt's manager accused Howard Dean's presidential campaign on Thursday of planning to slip non-Iowans into the Jan. 19 caucuses to pose as state residents and support Dean.

Dean campaign manager Joe Trippi denied the allegation and told Gephardt manager Steve Murphy "sleazy tactics like yours are exactly the reason that people have stopped participating in the political process."

In a letter to Trippi and later in a conference call with reporters, Murphy said a Dean field organizer in Iowa told a Gephardt staff member some of the expected 3,500 out-of-state Dean supporters coming to Iowa to help turn out the caucus vote would try to participate.

"It has come to our attention that your campaign in Iowa is engaged in an effort to violate caucus rules and send out-of-state supporters to pose as Iowa residents and caucus in cities and towns across the state," Murphy said in the letter.

http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/51405%7Ctop%7C01-08-2004::17:33%7Creuters.html

[taylor egv420106]

20. And that accusation cost Gephardt

Iowans dont like sore losers accusing people of crimes and not being able to back it up. There was ZERO evidence to support Gephardt's claim and it was seen as the last ditch desperate plea for attention that it was.

[sandnsea]

5. Lots of DUers were in Iowa

And this is the reference to the caucuses that keeps getting repeated, over and over. One person complained about Obama people being mean to her, so she went and caucused with the Hillary people. Which flies in the face of every other report that says the Clinton, Obama and Edwards people were all exceedingly nice in order to woo supporters.

Anti-war DUers reject an anti-war candidate who spoke at an anti-war rally in favor of the co-sponsor of the IWR. :crazy:

And here we go with the conspiracy theories again.

:eyes:

[Lasher]

6. K&R

Might explain some differences between the polls and the actual Iowa caucus results:

           RCP     Actual

Huckabee  29.7       34
Romney    26.7       25
McCain    11.8       13    
Thompson  11.7       13
Paul      7.3        10        
Giuliani  6.0         4

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/ia/iowa_republican_caucus-207.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_caucus#Republicans

Is it possible that out-of-state religious zealots accounted for Huckabee's 4% boost? Could frantic Ronbots from elsewhere be responsible for Paul's 3% difference? Maybe so.

[mnhtnbb]

7. Here's a good summary of eligibility requirements to caucus--aimed at college students

It would appear from these criteria that the rumor Obama/Oprah bussed in Iowa college students whose parental homes were in other states could have happened.

http://iowacollegedems.com/2007/12/13/who-can-caucus/

[Little Star]

14. Would that be considered a contribution from Oprah?

[KoKo]

16. Says you MUST be a Registered Democrat to vote in the Democratic Caucus...

Who Can Caucus

As long as you will be 18 years old by Election Day, November 4, 2008, are a U.S. Citizen, currently live in Iowa (even if you are an Iowa student from another state), and are registered as a Democrat (or eligible to register when you get to the caucus) - YOU CAN CAUCUS. Below is more detailed information and resources on exactly who is eligible to caucus and why.

Statement from Iowa Democratic Party:

“Any student who attends an Iowa college or university may participate in the Iowa caucuses provided they are 18 by November 4, 2008, and are a registered Democrat in the precinct in which they wish to caucus.” read more

In order to participate and vote in the caucus, you must meet the following requirements:

* You must be a resident of Iowa and of the precinct in which you wish to participate (more below)
* You must be a U.S. citizen and otherwise an eligible voter (more below)
* You must be a registered voter and registered as a Democrat (more below)
* You must be in the registration line or signed in by 7:00pm

[taylor egv420106]

21. Even if it did

If they are eligible to be registered voters in Iowa they were RIGHTFUL participants, no matter what the cries from the sore losers may be.

[earth mom]

30. That's just dirty manipulative politics.

:puke:

[taylor egv420106]

31. No its not

How is it "dirty" and "manipulative" to give a legally registered voter a ride to participate in a primary?

[earth mom]

34. Because those kids would never have been there in the first place without the ride there.

It skewed the results to Obama's advantage which is dirty, underhanded and manipulative.


ma·nip·u·la·tion (m-npy-lshn)
n.
1.
a. The act or practice of manipulating.
b. The state of being manipulated.
2. Shrewd or devious management, especially for one's own advantage.

dirt·y (dûrt)
adj. dirt·i·er, dirt·i·est
1.
a. Soiled, as with dirt; unclean.
b. Spreading dirt; polluting: The air near the foundry was always dirty.
c. Apt to soil with dirt or grime: a dirty job at the garage.
d. Contaminated with bacteria or other infectious microorganisms.
2. Squalid or filthy; run-down: dirty slums.
3.
a. Obscene or indecent: dirty movies; a dirty joke.
b. Malicious or scandalous: a dirty lie.
4.
a. Unethical or corrupt; sordid: dirty politics.
b. Not sportsmanlike: dirty players; a dirty fighter.
c. Acquired by illicit or improper means: dirty money.
d. Slang Possessing or using illegal drugs.
5.
a. Unpleasant or distasteful; thankless: Laying off workers is the dirty part of this job.
b. Extremely unfortunate or regrettable: a dirty shame.
6. Expressing disapproval or hostility: gave us a dirty look.
7. Not bright and clear in color; somewhat dull or drab. Often used in combination: dirty-blonde hair; dirty-green walls.
8. Producing a very great amount of long-lived radioactive fallout. Used of nuclear weapons.
9. Stormy; rough: dirty weather.

un·der·hand (ndr-hnd) also un·der·hand·ed (ndr-hndd)
adj.
1. Marked by or done in a deceptive, secret, or sly manner; dishonest and sneaky. See Synonyms at secret.
2. Sports Executed with the hand brought forward and up from below the level of the shoulder; underarm: an underhand pitch.
adv.
1. With an underhand movement: Throw the ball underhand.
2. In a sly and secret way.

[0007]

8. Does the taste buds change or was it always the same?

Giving those sour grapes away here at DU

[kevinbgoode]

9. This isn't about sour grapes. . .it's about the process

And since the initial referenced story pointed out that a man apparently flew in from the SOUTH to caucus and caused quite a stir in the precinct (by the way, he ended up in the Edwards camp) and there are other reports AND an apparent history of this same problem (from 2004). . .is it just possible that a flood of people from other states could drop in to caucus?

[truedelphi]

12. I agree with you. Some might have sour grapes, but others want to know.

I want to understand the process.

It boggles my mind that were I to turn on my TV right now, I would hear endless explanations of what went on at the Spears home in LA the other night, but after weeks of the M$M drumming up the Iowa caucus, I have learned only a little about the actual process, and all of that was learned here on DU.

[taylor egv420106]

25. There is no such legitimate reference

I am so sick of this "I heard this happened, just dont ask me where, who did it or any other details that prove it" crap.

[0007]

35. More sour grapes, 'eh? Who you kidding? Your girl could have done the

same thing if folks were that nuts over her. Go Figure!

[kevinbgoode]

38. Uh. . .I have no "girl" in this process

But I live in Illinois. I'm just wondering if I could have just driven up and claimed to live in Iowa and dropped into a precinct to participate. Why is that a sensitive question?

[KoKo]

11. I thought it odd that kids who weren't elegible to vote until November were allowed to Caucus

and that was reported in several articles posted here on DU as just part of the story about how many young Democrats voted.

I find it hard to believe that in such a close knit state that folks wouldn't be aware if there were infiltrators. Don't they have to sign in a book showing their name and address? :shrug:

[DFLforever]

15. Those are standard caucus rules.

In Minnesota 17yrs old can caucus if they will be 18 by the November 2008 election.

Also, most of the colleges dorms weren't open yet on January 3 so it was smart to provide transportation to Iowa students who had gone home out of state for the holidays.

The issue of students voting where they attend college was a big victory won in the 1960's, I believe. Before that they had to vote absentee in their home states.

[KoKo]

18. I just saw the post above about the rules....and here's a snip

Who Can Caucus

As long as you will be 18 years old by Election Day, November 4, 2008, are a U.S. Citizen, currently live in Iowa (even if you are an Iowa student from another state), and are registered as a Democrat (or eligible to register when you get to the caucus) - YOU CAN CAUCUS. Below is more detailed information and resources on exactly who is eligible to caucus and why.

Statement from Iowa Democratic Party:

“Any student who attends an Iowa college or university may participate in the Iowa caucuses provided they are 18 by November 4, 2008, and are a registered Democrat in the precinct in which they wish to caucus.” read more

In order to participate and vote in the caucus, you must meet the following requirements:

* You must be a resident of Iowa and of the precinct in which you wish to participate (more below)
* You must be a U.S. citizen and otherwise an eligible voter (more below)
* You must be a registered voter and registered as a Democrat (more below)
* You must be in the registration line or signed in by 7:00pm

[taylor egv420106]

22. Yes they do

And as a matter of fact it would be a crime for them to have signed that and participated if they were not meeting those requirements.

You will notice lots of people will cite rumors and alleged claims of their brother's friend's cousin's sister's teacher's neighbor knowing about one, but they will never be able to cite where or a name.

[taylor egv420106]

17. Your friend is ignorant or a liar

The rules require you to meet the legal necessities to be a legally registered Iowan. There is absolutely ZERO evidence that anything other than legally registered Iowans voted. A few elections back one smartass reporter decided to prove how easy it was to "hijack" the caucus and went in, committed fraud by lying about his registered address and participated in the caucus. He then compounded his stupidity with a nice column published in the paper that served as a full and public confession of his voter fraud.

After his criminal charges were finished I doubt any reporter would be quite so stupid.

[Strelnikov_]

23. Could have happened, but insignificant

At my precinct caucus, in a major university town, 550 people showed up, the demographics between groups was somewhat similar.

The precinct I am in has some students (college town), but is a good mix of professionals, blue collar.

Participation was up from 385 in 2004, and that 166 person increase was sure as hell not all 'college students'. The age distribution at the caucus seemed fairly representative of what I see walking around the neighborhood. If anything, there were LESS student looking types than I would have anticipated, and this was a precinct where the bussed in college students would have been dumped.

- Edwards/Obama groups appeared to be a uniform cross section of the population.

- Richardson/Biden/Dodd groups few less younger/older, appeared to trend a bit more to Professional/Academic.

- Clinton group trended older.

The results:

550 total (385 in 2004) 83 required for viability.

1st/2nd/3rd Round (percentages in paran), Delegates

Clinton……125 (23)…..132 (24)…..147 (27)....5
Edwards….…90 (16)…..117 (21)…..127 (23)…..4
Obama…….162 (29)…...176 (32)…..179 (33)…..5
Biden………46 (8)…….34..
Dodd……….14 (3)……..0..
Kucinich……..7 (1)…….0..
NotCommit….40 (7)……0..
Richardson…..60 (11) .88 (16)…..97 (17)…..3
Gravel…………0……0

550 total final count, so everyone who came moved to a viable candidate.

So, in the end, Clinton and Obama tie (delegates). But the percent differences between Obama/Clinton/Edwards are somewhat similar to the statewide result. Richardson's strong showing in my precinct probably hurt Edwards a bit.

And as for "a lot of people coming in to participate had never been even seen before in the neighborhood" . . . 550 people in my precinct caucus, need I say more.

Also, I was one of those independents. I have voted Dem since my first vote in '80 for Carter. I generally register Independent. It's Iowa, have to cut down the robocalls somehow.

In the days leading up to the caucus, you could sense the Obama momentum. The win did not come out of the blue, and tracked fairly closely to the DMR poll a few days before the caucus.

[KoKo]

26. How could you vote? Iowa Rules say only Democrats can vote in the Iowa Dem Primary??

Maybe the Rule Book linked above is outdated, though and Independents are allowed to vote in Dem Primary now? :shrug:

Who Can Caucus

As long as you will be 18 years old by Election Day, November 4, 2008, are a U.S. Citizen, currently live in Iowa (even if you are an Iowa student from another state), and are registered as a Democrat (or eligible to register when you get to the caucus) - YOU CAN CAUCUS. Below is more detailed information and resources on exactly who is eligible to caucus and why.

Statement from Iowa Democratic Party:

“Any student who attends an Iowa college or university may participate in the Iowa caucuses provided they are 18 by November 4, 2008, and are a registered Democrat in the precinct in which they wish to caucus.” read more

In order to participate and vote in the caucus, you must meet the following requirements:

* You must be a resident of Iowa and of the precinct in which you wish to participate (more below)
* You must be a U.S. citizen and otherwise an eligible voter (more below)
* You must be a registered voter and registered as a Democrat (more below)
* You must be in the registration line or signed in by 7:00pm

[taylor egv420106]

27. Easy

You can register the day of the caucus. Plain and simple.

[KoKo]

28. BUT...the RULES SAY...only Dems can Register for Dem Caucus?

So how'd ya do it? :shrug:

[taylor egv420106]

32. What are you talking about?

If you aren't registered you register and you are a dem.

If you aren't a registered dem, you reregister as a dem. Plain and simple.

How is that difficult?

[Strelnikov_]

29. Which is what I did, and it was one long line

Didn't caucus in 2004 because I was backing Wes Clark who was not contesting Iowa.

Didn't caucus in 2000 because Gore was pretty much a lock.

So I didn't have to change my affiliation until the other night.

[kevinbgoode]

39. Thank you. . .

This is the kind of information I was interested in. . .and I think it's worth the discussion. Like I said before, this isn't aimed at anyone's campaign or anything like that...just to air the criticisms or claims that have been published.

And you Iowans who were there are the best sources to educate us about the process.

[loudsue]

24. Man! Elections in this country are SO FUCKED UP!

You'd think that an advanced civilization would have laws to live by, and means of enforcement to insure laws are adheared to.

Damn it! This is NOT rocket science! Elections are AN IMPORTANT PART OF OUR WORLD VIEW!!

Can't we get it right? If not, what is the point?

Edited because I can't spell today. :(

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

33. There are laws, or at least there are rules

but no way to enforce them. I'm not sure the polling officials can even request photo I.D. from an applicant. If not, it's easy to say "I'm an Iowanian, let me in".

Not saying that's what happened. I have no idea.

[treestar]

41. The system goes back to the day when people stayed put and

everyone knew everyone else in town.

[Blue Gardener]

36. You have to sign in

There is a list of registered voters. My name was on the list, I signed in. Very simple. My neighbor filled out a form to switch parties so she could participate in the caucus. Anyone from outside the precinct can participate as an OBSERVER, but not caucus for a candidate.

[kevinbgoode]

40. Thanks. . .

Now this helps me understand the process much more clearly. And we sure weren't getting this from the media at all. . .they treated this more like a drop-in and caucus event, no matter who you were, and that everything was dependent on your word.

[Blue Gardener]

42. You're welcome

Signing in slowed down the process considerably, but it is a necessary step. We stood in a very long line before we could get into the gymnasium to caucus, but it was well worth the time.

[Le Taz Hot]

37. The only entities placing important on

the results of the Iowa CAUCUS (not an actual primary) is the MSM and Obama and his supporters. It's just two more days until the New Hampshire primaries and I think we'll see less questionable results. It still may be that Obama ends up on the top of the heap again, but at least it will be through a more legitimate process.