Why am I scared more of Obama than Clinton?

[Ioo]

Let me be honest, I do not like Clinton or Obama... but my gut tells me Obama can note get elected... (Before you go and post some slamming BS please make sure you read what I am saying)

I am from the south and I live here in West VA and I just do not see how Obama could ever ever win a Florida or a Mississippi... I think that we would be doing the same thing we did last time, nominating the guy we can stand the most, but was really never electable.

Here is my impression of Obama...

- He says he is the change we need, but he is a Senator, so he is part of the problem.
- I have never seen him use the position of Senator to stand up and stick his neck out for something WITHOUT it being tied to his pres'dl run.
- Something tells me in my gut that he is just paying lip service to crowd at hand, doing it in a spectacular way, he is a charmer if I ever saw one, but it does not feel real to me.
- I do not think he cares for gays at all, and while I think the Democrats have consistently asked the gays for support, they have never really stuck their neck out for us. His stunt with the anti-gay preacher was a HUGE turnoff.
- He is to calculating, it does not come off to me as real. I just want someone to do the right thing, not to just do the half ass so as not to step on anyone's toes.

I have my thoughts about Clinton as well...
- She comes across as a spoiled bitch
- I think she to is just as fake in what she is telling me, you, and the nation.
- She is a politician if there ever was one
- She and Obama will not really stop the war in Iraq (when they say they will there are so many * all over it it is silly)
- I do not see her as anti-gay (EDIT: I am gay, and I see Obama as anti-gay)

These are my thought, they are not ment to slam one or the other. I am a proven Dem that is scared with option A and B. Yes I think Clinton can get elected, I do not think the same in the case of Obama... I do not thank any amount of charisma and charm can passify the south. HELP ME I AM FREAKEN OUT!

[NYCGirl]

1. I appreciate your concern and will give it the consideration it deserves. NT

[MethuenProgressive]

2. Obama: "Hope, Change, and I'm Not Hillary" won't beat the GOP in the general.

Other than chants and high school cheers, his is an empty message.

[aquart]

54. A stuffed toy will beat the Republicans in the general.

So if it's Obama, we're fine. I seriously hate arguing for him, but if he draws independents in NH the way he did in Iowa, we're golden.

You have to shake your head hard and rid yourself of the fifty/fifty concept. We massively outnumber the Republicans. They can ONLY win with a HUGE majority of independents. If Iowa didn't make it clear to you that they will NOT get them, nothing will.

We need a mere 13 million independent voters. Do you get that our ill-educated young are coming out of their campuses and VOTING? Obama is coming off as young, hip, energetic. And NEW. Nothing can top Generation Y's feeling of nobility and virtue in being the first generation to vote for a black president. No previous generation has ever been so fine and egalitarian as theirs. It perfectly fits the smug superiority they've been raised to have.

WE DO NOT NEED A SINGLE REPUBLICAN VOTE. NOT ONE. But in Iowa, we got them. Republicans voted for Obama.

I am now going to barf in a nearby wastebasket.

[ccpup]

3. spoiled bitch?

if one had everything handed to one on a silver platter, then calling Hillary that would make sense. But if one has had their nose buried in policy, has been working hard since at least 1978 and has been forcing first State Governments and then Federal Governments to offer better education and health care to children and, later, those in the Reserves, then that label doesn't fit.

I do see Obama as a charmer, though. Kind of someone you'd want to have a beer with. But certainly not run the Country.

[Ioo]

6. I do - I think she is acting like we should just installer her as the NOM

I think she is acting a little like she should not have to earn our vote

[ccpup]

23. I mean, it's not like she's out there in the freezing cold

knocking on doors, going to diners, talking to voters, answering the questions of people she meets.

In fact, isn't she in Florida right now?

[Ioo]

24. I would expect her to do that... She still thinks we should install her.

[ccpup]

25. I think the mistake being made is assuming

that any of us KNOW what someone else is thinking. You KNOW without a doubt what Hillary thinks? Could this not be said about Obama as well? Or even Edwards? Just who are these people who think we should elect them to what many believe is the highest job in the land?

Truth is we don't KNOW what Hillary or Obama or Edwards are actually thinking. We make assumptions, we guess, we decide, but we don't actually know.

I just read in a response further down-thread where you said we all navigate from gut instinct. There are some of us, though, who recognize that intuition -- or gut instinct -- and then seek out information to verify it or prove it wrong.

It appears as if, with Hillary especially, you've stopped at your gut-instinct, visceral dislike of her, decided she's a "spoiled bitch" who thinks we should just give her the Nomination and that's that.

But this belief you have isn't squared by the facts. She's a fantastic Senator who actually kept her promise to serve her full First Term (unlike some in the race), she's got a record of achievement stretching back to at least 1978 and, with a resume like hers, the term "spoiled bitch" just doesn't apply.

It might be helpful to actually take a look at the work she's been doing for the past 35 years (a simple Google search or Wikipedia might be useful), before making such a harsh judgment.

[Ioo]

32. No I said that your gut is a DATA POINT... not the decider, that is Bush

Look I think if I had to pick one of the 2 I would want Clinton, but I do not want either. I also think she has done good things, but I also think they are not because they are the right thing to do, but the right thing to do to run for President. I think her whole Senate runs have been for this day... She is a smart lady, but every move in the last 8 years have been for this day.

I am glad she kept her promise for a full term, she was smart not to run in 2004... that was more a timing issue, not a promise issue. She knew that she would not win, she needed more time to get her ducks in a row. She knew that Dick was not running so 2008 was going to be totally open on the Repig side. NOTHING she does is done without a focus to this day, she has been running for president as far back in 1992 when I forst meet her...

She is smart, she is strong, but I think that my statement is still true... She wants for nothing, she has everything, the only thing she can not buy is the presidency, and she learned that on Thursday...

[aquart]

56. Well, no. That seems to be Barack.

And all his dear supporters. But you've been told that's how she is, so that's what you see. Personally, I would be embarrassed to be that easily manipulated.

[Matariki]

52. Thank you ccpup.

The opening post lost any credibility for me with that line. Both Clinton and Obama have their problems, but those aren't it..

[Selatius]

4. I live in Mississippi. I don't think anybody short of FDR 2 is going to win Mississippi.

Jimmy Carter was the last Democrat Mississippians ever elected, and that was only because the Repubs were still toxic after Nixon and the Dixiecrats had not changed their party registration papers yet to the Republicans.

Personally, I think the most powerful candidate the Dems could field is an old-school FDR-style economic populist, the kind who stands up for working class America, the poor, the sick, the disempowered, and the the disenfranchised. Somebody who is not afraid to call it class warfare.

[iamjoy]

9. You Mean Like John Edwards (n/t)

[bullwinkle428]

63. WORD!!!!!! You just beat me to the punch!!

[Union Thug]

41. Spot on.

I can't add anything useful, you summed it up perfectly.

[Berry Cool]

5. You don't see Clinton as anti-gay, and you regard that as a problem?

I think you need to work on your writing skills a bit. Then maybe you will be able to present your thoughts a bit better, and it will be easier to take you seriously.

But I really don't think I agree with your concerns.

[Ioo]

15. Thank you for the English lesson - very helpful and getting us nowhere

I used the term anti-gay when speaking about Obama, I was using the same term with Clinton. It did turn out to be a dub negative, but I wanted it to be... NOT anti-gay means means pro-gay (or kinda). I choose the words I used. thank you.

[Rockholm]

60. Your wording was just fine.

[mmonk]

7. I am from the South

and the few Republicans and independents I know, most say they will not back Clinton in any circumstances but will vote for the democratic nominee this time as long as she's not it. Yes, they said they would vote for Obama. So for every story about Obama's electability question, I can respond with another story.

[pacalo]

49. Which state?

[aquart]

58. Yah, a woman president scares so many shitless.

We should all be very proud of ourselves.

[KaryninMiami]

8. Then join the many of us who have turned to Edwards

I came to realize many of the things you've pointed out, a while ago, which is the same time it became clear that my first choice (Al Gore) and second choice (Dennis Kucinich) candidates were just not going to happen. Edwards can get elected, he has the strength, vision, compassion and integrity and is a true progressive. For me, an Edwards-Obama ticket would be terrific. It would give us 8 years with Edwards who, frankly, is probably the only one who can really clean up the Bush Co. mess and get this country back on track. Then, provided they do as promised in the first 8 years, Obama would be able to just step in and we'd have 8 years of an experienced VP and by that point, he will be truly ready to embrace the position.

Jump on to the Edwards campaign - he needs your support. Think about it. It's a win-win for all.

[Ioo]

11. He is who I will support if he makes it to WV Primaries - by then it will be over... NT

[skipos]

10. Answer to q#1: I have no idea. I am the opposite.

We don't need to win MS. In fact, NO Dem is going to win MS. We don't even need the south. Kerry states plus New Mexico plus Virginia = Dem win. Kerry states plus Ohio = Dem win.

- He says he is the change we need, but he is a Senator, so he is part of the problem.
But by that standard, so are Hillary and Edwards.

- I have never seen him use the position of Senator to stand up and stick his neck out for something WITHOUT it being tied to his pres'dl run.
Have you seen/read his speech against the War in 2002? Back when anyone against the war was called a traitor or unpatriotic? Back when most people were for the war?

If you don't like him, or don't think he is "real" I don't think anyone is going to convince you otherwise. That is how I feel about CLinton, not Obama.

[Little Star]

12. I thought with the leadership of Howard Dean we were going to run a 50 state strategy?

The last two times we tried to run it the way you describe, we have lost.

[skipos]

31. Dems pumping money into MS for a *presidential* election

is like Republicans pumping money into Rhode Island.
There are about 20 other red states that are more realistic than MS. At some point, you have to prioritize. I guarantee you if Dean won the nomination in 2004 he would not waste a bunch of money on MS.

[never_get_over_it]

21. I'm not too hopeful of VA for Obama

or any Dem for that matter - the last Dem to win VA was LBJ. It may be doable this year with a good turnout in Northern VA which is how Webb beat macaca man. It would be SO COOL if VA finally turned completely BLUE - but once you get out of Northern VA there are a lot of good old boy rednecks....

[skipos]

33. But what do you think of the Partisan Voting Index in VA for the last few elections? nt

[Ioo]

36. A Disagree, Obama could win VA... NOVA runs this state now...

the 4 co. up by Washington DC are the greatest voting block in VA, and they are very much going D more and more. Locally we just had the dems take over a few co governments. If the minority vote turns out in Richmond then he has a lock on the state.

[never_get_over_it]

46. Oh I'm not saying

that I think for sure VA can't go to a Dem - I just said I'm not too hopefull - it could happen and believe me I think it is HIGH time it does.... much better chance of VA going to Obama or a Dem than this idiot state I live in now....

[aquart]

59. Do we NEED Virginia?

Just remember that the military is not going to vote to continue this war. And Virginia has lots of military.

I'm arguing for Obama again. I need to lie down.

[amandabeech]

53. Thanks for bringing the reality of the Electoral College to this thread.

We really don't have good information about how the three leading candidates will do in the swing states. You've pointed out New Mexico, Virginia and Ohio, but New Hampshire, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Colorado, Nevada and maybe Arizona also could be in play.

Florida, Louisiana, Arkansas and Tennessee have gone Democratic from time to time, but I don't think that we need to worry very much about Mississippi and Alabama.

[SoFlaJet]

13. The elephant in the room

that you didn't mention is that he's black. THAT'S what I fear the most from his 'electability" factor. You didn't say it but you thought it-does everybody really think this country is going to elect an African-American? I just don't see it-there is a lot of racism in this country still and I just don't see Joe Sixpack from the rural south EVER pulling the lever for Obama-I'm sorry that I have to say this and I don't agree with it. I like Barrack Obama-he's my second choice behind Edwards.

As for Hillary, she reminds me of Reese Witherspoon's character in Election...the Miss Perfect candidate that thinks SHE deserves the presidency-she's done everything right, she has the best organization, she even bakes cookies for her classmates-but nobody really likes her and sees right through her-and she doesn't win-without the help of Matthew Broderick's rigging the vote count.

[amandabeech]

57. I don't think that our victory rests in the rural south.

Democrats have won with the Kerry states: New England, Mid-Atlantic, several Great Lakes States and the Pacific Northwest, plus a couple of other pick-ups like Ohio, Florida or some combination of smaller states like Iowa, New Mexico, Nevada etc..

Mississippi and Alabama don't figure much into the Democratic presidential strategy, although it sure would be nice to have such a popular candidate that we would take them, too!

[glowing]

14. Agreed... so many of my southern friends have just out and out said

this country is not ready for a black man or a woman president. I disagree.. But personally, I don't like the candidates policies.. I wish I could actually participate in voting for one of them... but I can't. And I agree with Elizabeth Edwards... the idea was to work towards it not mattering.. no we aren't there.. but a lot of young people are.. most people my age or younger just do not give a shit what color you are or who you sleep with or what you pray to or don't pray to at all... One day the old people with their bigotry will be gone and we may have true equality.

[Onlooker]

16. Obama's a preacher

In the same way that JFK was. He talks in lofty ideals and broad visions. He will use the bully pulpit and succeed in making some dramatic change to the United States. But, his success will very much depend on the people he hires. They will be the policy wonks, who do the nuts and bolts that are vital to change. Hopefully, he'll bring in people from the Clinton administration who were very good at that.

As far as the way he is being packaged and his campaign is being run, it's so far very effective, but I think he understands its a necessary means to an end. All the candidates do this if they want to have a prayer at winning.

[Ioo]

19. Really? Bush Spoke a like drugged out moron and he won... I think this is not true

I am sorry, Bush throws this whole thing on its head... If I recall Gore did the same in Gore v Bradly. If we are going on pure charisma we would be in the waining years of the Bill Bradly era.

[cali]

17. worry away.

I think that's what you want to do. So what would be the point of defending Obama either on character or electability to you?

[Ioo]

20. Very helpful, thanks for nothing...

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. On your points

* A President can do more to effect change than one Senator, especially when the Senator is a freshman Senator in a gridlocked and obstructionist Senate. Obama did great work in Illinois, and managed to produce real change that affected people's lives and the way the state conducted itself (see videotaping of suspect statements to police, for instance).

* A fair point, I guess, but the points above apply. What, specifically, are you referring to here?

* "Something tells me in my gut..." Oy, it seems we forget the lessons of Colbert too quickly. I know your "gut" must be producing a really TRUTHY feeling, but it is YOUR truth, isn't it?

* His gaffe with the anti-gay preacher was awful. It has been leveraged as the end all and be all against him by forces with even more questionable credentials. That said, I think any of the three viable primary candidates would vastly improve the situation of our LGBT brothers and sisters in America.

* See point above about truthiness of your gut feelings. That said, it's a bit silly to be "for change" but not be "for compromise." Charging forward is good, but you don't actually get anything done unless you work with people. Ms. Clinton works closely with people on the other side as well. On these boards, it's anathema, because this is a griping and "enemy-hatin'" board that doesn't really have to DO anything but pressure our politicians not to compromise TOO MUCH. That's a fine role to play, and a needed one. But it's necessary but not sufficient when it comes to actually changing stuff.

ON CLINTON

* "Spoiled bitch???" Oh no you di'nt. Come on, now. That's just inappropriate and ridiculous on so many levels that it's barely worthy of a response.

* Fake, a politician - Guess what? People who run for office are politicians. They have to reach out to strange and sometimes unseemly coalitions that you never have to bother with. So, you can retain your phony "authenticity" because you never have to actually do anything that requires people who do not initially agree. The grown ups in the world, on the other hand, sometimes have to backtrack, reach out, persuade, draw in, cajole, plead, and prostrate themselves in order to make real changes in the real world. I'll take a "phony" producer over an "authentic" sideline commenter any day of the week.

Your point about the South is moot. We don't know that Obama can't win in the South. I personally think that he wins Virginia in a general election (albeit by a slim margin). If your contention is that he can't win in the South because he's black, I think that's wrong. He can't really win in the South because he will have a D after his name, but that applies to ALL the DEMS in 2008. Unless you think Hillary will win Georgia?

[Ioo]

22. Thank you... here are my thoughts

Thank you for the thoughtful post...

the Clinton Spoiled Bitch comment comes from how she is visibly shaken that she did not in in Iowa, she really does think that we should just installer her as the nominee.

And you are right that a lot of this is in my gut, but we all use that as a data point as we navigate life. If Obama is the nominee I will support him, he will get my vote, but my gut tells me that he will not win in WV. (WE HAVE ONLY ONE STATE WIDE REPUBLICAN IN CONGRESS - 4 DEMS 1 - REPIG)

I also agree with you that all politicians are fake as hell, but when I hear his speak it all comes across as a little to scripted, a little to "pre-recorded", I do not think anything is said from the cuff, so to speak.

Look, I have been, and still am, backing Edwards / Richardson ticket... but I am also a realist that knows that the question and feelings I have are going to need to be addressed because of the reality on the ground... Edwards is going to have a hard time fighting the piles of cash the other 2 have in the bottom of the bus.

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. I didn't say all politicians were fake as hell

What I meant was that the very distinction "authentic/fake" is almost always a false one, and certainly one that's much easier to maintain when you don't actually have to do anything. Anyone can be "authentic" in a closed room. It's when you have to interact with many kinds of people that you must open up to question what is actually "authentic."

[Ioo]

38. Fair

[kestrel91316]

27. Nah. You're skeert cuz he's a MOOSLIM!!!!11!!! And BLACK!!!!

[never_get_over_it]

48. The original poster most likely is not skeert

cuz he's a MOOSLIM and BLACK - but the repunk switboaters are going to do their best to make sure a whole hell of a lot of mericans are - and that is the unfortunate problem....

[pacalo]

55. Yes, that is the point.

It has nothing to do with being "skeered". The 'thugs are chomping at the bit for an Obama or Hillary nomination. The only chance the 'thugs have for winning is by character assassination; they certainly can't do it on their record.

I don't see the fight in Obama to handle swiftboaters. I think Hillary could handle it well on a personal level, but will she be able to overcome the same media hoogy-boogy "she said there's a right-wing conspiracy!" crap again & again, convincing the talking-point-a-day newswatchers that the media is full of corporate venom? Will the people want to re-live the daily swiftboat treatment of the Clintons all over again? If these two, Obama & Clinton, haven't been fighters against the 'thug "my way or no way" machine in the Senate during the long list of crimes against this country, what makes anyone think they'll be able to overcome the inevitable cheap shots that will be used against them in trying to right the wrongs?

That's what has me "skeered".

[kestrel91316]

69. My point exactly.

[aquart]

28. You really see what you want, dontcha?

You are not, however, seeing what's there.

I am coming to actively dislike Obama, but the Democrat is going to win. ELECTABILITY IS NOT AN ISSUE IN THIS ELECTION.

The Hillary I see, however, comes without the filter you use. I see a warm, loving, caring, HARDWORKING, energetic, INTELLIGENT, AMBITIOUS WOMAN. Phonies do not raise daughters like Chelsea. They raise daughters like Jenna and Barbara. I see a determined woman who has been personally attacked in every possible way for over a decade and still maintains her cool...and never goes vengeful, never goes spiteful. She's a way better person than I am. But it has made her careful and cautious in what we're allowed to see. Because people don't see Hillary Clinton, they see the ambition and American women aren't allowed to get away with that. Would she like to be the first woman president of the United States? YES! Just as much as Obama would like to be the first black one. I also don't think anyone would see him as all that special if he were white. But who knows.

I think the media hates Hillary's guts. They put a gaggle of woman on her press bus? Have you seen the coverage of those...the word I'm reaching for is harpies but I promised someone here I'd watch my language. The MSM is leaping on Obama's bandwagon like a herd of gazelles.

I've noticed that nobody here forgives Hillary's husband for making friends of his enemies...like Bush the elder. Like Mellon Scaife. We hear people linking Bush/Clinton as if they're a continuation of the same line, the same family: a dynasty. But making friends with his enemies is EXACTLY what Obama promises to do.

They aren't that different in policies and votes. Obama's big plus is that he wasn't in the Senate for the IWR vote so he can say he would never have voted for it. I think, judging from his record, he would have voted "Present" rather than "No" but he could well have succumbed to pressure and voted "Yes." His supporters buy his integrity. I don't see where it's actually been tested. I don't see his courage votes in the Senate NOW. Has he filibustered one of George's nominees? Done something impressive I haven't heard about? Telling me what he would have done doesn't sell for me.

I still haven't changed from supporting Edwards, although I don't appreciate the way he's positioning Hillary. It's beginning to look like Obama and I are alike but I'm white. The guys on one side, and the big bad Hillary (linked as being the same as Bush which a nanosecond of actual thought would show you is a flat lie) on the other. If Edwards keeps doing this, he loses me.

[Ioo]

34. Oh yah, we all do, that is what makes us human...I do not think Dems will be installed as Pres

I think that is the fastest way for us to have 4 more years of a REPIG...

As for the rest of your post, thank you. I do think she is a great mother, Chelsea is a strong lady that will be a force in the future of America if she wants. I also agree that Hillary is strong and forgiving, but I do not think that was done just because she loves Bill. I am sorry but many pundants wrote the play we are now watching a decade ago, and they were right.... She has wanted to be here, in this race for a long long time, and I do not think any move was made without that being thought about.

Agreed I want to see Edwards, but I also need to get my head around what the other outcomes can be...

[okasha]

40. And if she were a man,

that planning for an ultimate presidential run would be called "far-sighted," "persevering," "steadily building toward a goal."

[Ioo]

42. Not sure, I have no issue with her sex. My boss is a strong woman, I respect her and

would do anything for her. So I do not have an answer...

[thesubstanceofdreams]

29. Regardless of who is the candidate...

it is quite likely the democrats will win the electoral college (even by a big margin) without carrying any confederate states. Ohio, Iowa, New Mexico and other non-Southern states are more likely to turn blue than Mississippi, by a huge margin.

[Ioo]

35. I think if we think it is ours hands down, we will loose. We thought that in 2004.. NT

[JohnnyLib2]

37. I sure agree with that!

[JohnnyLib2]

30. Hillary supporter here, chiming in late.

--I work with youth and have been aware of the excitement for Obama for a year or more. He may well be our nominee and there would be an opportunity to change the visible face of government. Symbolism really does count and he seems to be an effective leader.

--The "spoiled bitch" theme is galling. My support comes from following her totally public actions since at least 1990. Hard worker, no frivolity, up and moving at all times, world-wide exposure and contacts. And her work for children and education resonates highly in my family and professional circle. Again, the symbolism of her as president is exciting in itself.

In short, I can see two potential winners well worth the support of Democrats in general. My preference is for the better known HRC.

[1620rock]

43. I love Obama...but....he can not win in racist AmeriKKKa.

[JerseygirlCT]

66. So what would it take then?

Is the answer to give up and never nominate an African American?

I think his personality is one that could absolutely persuade a number of people to his side, whatever their race. I could be wrong, but I sure hate the idea of denying someone a shot because of some sense of "they can't win because of their race or their gender".

[Beelzebud]

39. Thanks for your concern.

[eallen]

44. I rate Clinton's chance of winning Mississippi at zero.

George Washington could return from the grave, take the Democratic nomination, and would still lose Mississippi to Bozo the Clown, if Bozo were running on the GOP ticket. So who are we kidding here?

:hippie:

[farmbo]

45. Points taken...but if he takes Ohio, Colorado and New Mexico...

... he won't need any states south of the Mason-Dixon line. And right now-- even before the Iowa surge-- the head-to-heads show him beating the GOP nominee in those states.

And keep in mind: 1) He did vote against the Iraq War resolution when everyone else was in a full-throated, jingoistic panic, 2)his "inexperience" is actually an asset, since he carries no baggage and can still run "against Washington", and-- most importantly-- 3) he just seems to make people feel good about being Americans.

[smoogatz]

47. Obama would have to win either Florida or Ohio

along with all the traditionally "blue" states won by both Gore and Kerrey. His best shot is in Ohio, where massive election fraud was committed in 2004, but which now has a Democratic governor and a Dem secretary of state who seem committed to conducting fair and honest elections. One thing the Iowa experience shows, too, is that white independent voters may be likely to turn out in support of Obama in far greater numbers than for either Hillary or Edwards, both of whom also happen to be white. That's an interesting and unexpected phenomenon that could make a huge difference in the general. I think the fact that Obama (a nee-grow!) won't win the racist niche vote probably won't hurt him all that much. Neither would Hillary (a woman!) or Edwards (a commie!).

[Bright Eyes]

50. What makes you think that the same people who wouldn't vote for a black man

Would vote for a woman?:shrug:

EDIT: I understand what you're saying, but those states are typically 'red states' anyway. I think the majority would vote for a Democrat, no matter who the nominee is.

Hillary Clinton worries me more, because so many Democrats refuse to vote for her due to her hawkishness.

[amandabeech]

61. I think that it would depend on the woman.

Margaret Thatcher would probably win their votes.

I don't think that Sen. Clinton is a liberal Thatcher, or at least she hasn't had the forum to really who it. Additionally, she does come with some baggage that some people just simply can't accept.

Don't get me wrong, I'll pull the lever for her in the general election, but I don't think that she's a shoe-in.

[killbotfactory]

51. If it were up to people like you

we would never elect a black president for the next hundred years, at least.

Thankfully, it's not up to people like you.

[Rockholm]

62. Thank you for your post.

[MzNov]

64. I am a loyal Edwards fan, but I would have to agree with a lot of what you say

even if I were not. At first I was very excited about Obama, and I really liked Hillary. But you can't just go by their charm, intelligence and wit. :sarcasm:?

Obama sends up red flags all over the place. I've watched his speeches, looked at his voting record, and read whatever I can find about him. He's not our guy. He's not showing us his true self. There is something very insincere in all his projected sincerity.

I don't agree with you about Hillary. She's not a spoiled bitch. She's not any kind of a bitch. She's a woman politician. Her being too far to the right may just be her only problem. I'm getting really really tired of the b word.

Edwards has a plan. Edwards is actually talking about all the things that are wrong in this country! A lot of them anyway. He does not appear to have all of his answers rehearsed or scripted. He is spontaneous, direct and honest. He's a politician too, just like the others, but he isn't talking about himself, he's talking about other people, Americans, not "I" this and "I" that.

Obama keeps talking about sweeping ideals like "Hope" and "change". To me he sounds too much like Pelosi.

[JerseygirlCT]

65. Well, I'm not in the south, so I can't really address your concerns

there other than to remind you of the large populations of African Americans there -- who presumably won't have a problem voting for a black man, even if some others will. Good turnout could be tremendously important for the Dems.

I don't see him as "anti-gay", though the whole McClurkin thing was at the very least stupid. Frankly, none of the major candidates are supportive enough of gay rights for my taste, but that's not the only issue.

I don't think Hillary is a bitch, myself. My beef with her is how careful and calculated everything she's done has been. I really need to see someone willing to challenge the status quo right now. I don't think she's the one to do it. I'm sure she's actually a warm and lovely person, but I need more than that right now. And I cannot tell you how badly I'd love to see a woman in the WH. Just not this woman, I think. (Though whoever is our nominee gets my full support).

To me, Edwards comes across as the one too slick by half. I want to like the guy (I sure like his wife) but he's always left me with a nagging feeling that I'm being had. Hopefully I'm wrong about that.

In any case, our potential nominees are all hugely superior to the offerings of the GOP. Any one of them would be a tremendous improvement. So I'd love, personally, to see less bickering and nastiness. It will only come back to bite us in the general.

[spanone]

67. i'm not scared of any of the democratic candidates....i'd vote for anyone if they win the nom

[thatsrightimirish]

68. Good Concern bu think about this

Will racisists ever vote for the Democratic candidate anyway? I think it unlikely that Joe Bob in Mississippi will support Clinton, but not support Obama because he is black. It doesn't make any sense. But neither does politics I guess.

Will Catholics in New Mexico vote for a former Baptist minister?
Will Evangelicals in Colorado vote for a Mormon?
This is going to be an interesting election/

[superkia]

70. So from what I see here on DU, no Democrat can win. Thats all I...

see around here, everyone pointing out how the other democrat cant beat the Republicans. So, can a democrat win at all or are the republicans the obvious choice to better our lives? I may have to change my voter registration if there is no chance of a democrat winning and go vote for the lesser of the republican evils.