It is very exciting to see a black man have a real shot at the presidency

[mudesi]

I will say that about Obama. This is the first time in the history of America that a black man can, in fact, become the president. It actually speaks volumes about the mainstream media's constant lying about just how many Americans are racist.

He is among the front runners, and it looks like he may take New Hampshire as well. He is an incredible public speaker and he oozes charisma. He has already made history and he may just do it again.

The vast majority of Americans are not racists. Despite the naysayers, the country is ready. Make no mistake that his skin color is a factor in this race, and it should be. He would be the first black president, and no matter what your disagreements on the issues (And I disagree with many of his stances), that is something to be proud of.

[Kahuna]

1. If he won, it would change our whole society for the better. Think about

how it would change the perceptions that black youngsters would have about themselves, their futures and their place in our society. They would no longer have any excuses for failure. That would be huge.

[Rosemary2205]

4. Excuses for failure?

I started to tell you to go fuck yourself but I have no idea where you are coming from so I'll just stick with sitting here gritting my teeth.

[IntravenousDemilo]

8. I suspect what the poster was getting at is...

...that when you think the system is completely stacked against you, if you think there is no hope for advancement, often you'll not bother because, well, why bother? One of the things that has made America great is the notion that anyone technically can become President of the United States, and that young children believe, and are taught, that it could just be possible. So far, the vast majority of kids who feel that way have been white, and especially male. But with a black president representing a role model who has succeeded in reaching the top, maybe more children of colour will stop making excuses like, "Oh, the American dream isn't for me because I'm black, so why even try?" It's good to inspire in children, all children, the audacity of hope.

[Hutzpa]

38. Yeah I know this one

so it make it easier for white people to be completely racist now...does'nt it, because the new buzz would be "well the President is black, they should be able to find a job, they are just plain lazy"

it will never stop, racism in America is sooo deep rooted its not funny, I see this as weak ass move by certain individuals who are just not competent enough.

[Rosemary2205]

51. They aren't excuses

The roadblocks to any sort of success for most Blacks in America are real and substantial. Young blacks aren't "making excuses". They and their parents and the grandparents work their asses off everyday. To say blacks are not hitting the upper levels of our society in large numbers only because we don't try is so incredibly offensive.

Are there "lazy" "excuse making" blacks? Sure- a few - a very few. Given the percentage of the total population I'd say it's a hell of a lot less than the number of "lazy" "excuse making" whites.

[Kahuna]

59. Putting words in my mouth won't work. I mean really! Your self

esteem must be really low to have such a viceral reaction to something I said that is true for a lot of people. Not all. And I never said all so piss off.

[Kahuna]

48. Like I give a damn what you do. Seethe all you want.

Tell me to go fuck myself. I've been told before. The fact that you would even do so in light of my post from which I speak from experience (black in the inner city) reflects poorly on YOU. Not me. You're an ignorant asshole.

[Rosemary2205]

53. Then you would know the roadblocks are REAL

they aren't just perceptions. The racism is real. You should know better than to call it "excuses" and claim kids don't even bother to try.

[Kahuna]

58. Just piss off. In the first place it's totally idiotic for you to try to pretend

that I think ALL black youth use excuses. I don't know anybody who make such and outlandish statement and you were just trying to pick a fight. But you chose the wrong person to pick THIS fight with.

For the record, some of the road blocks are real. Some are self-imposed. I'm a grandmother of three marvelous grandkids, two of them teens. I've lived in the inner city all of my life.

I've seen kids that excel and make it because they strive to do so, and I've seen others who join gangs, sell drugs and are just plain old anti-social. Mainly what I'm seeing today is that if black kids apply themselves they can "make it." Some are poor and disadvantaged and maybe they feel victimized. But there will ALWAYS be racism. But that is no excuse to give up and not strive to make it. At least try. At least don't give up before you try. If that were true I wouldn't be here right now. Get it. Racism???? I was born in the 50s. I could write a book about it.

[Rosemary2205]

61. You really need to go back and read what you posted.

Even this post doesn't speak well for you. IMHO.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. I'd like to see a HUman with a plan run for president that had a real plan.

No bullshit dreams, no depression era woody guthrie, no baggage.

[Rosemary2205]

3. Yes and No

We may or may not be ready for someone with dark skin who fits into what whites consider "professional". We are no where near ready for someone who could hang with Snoop/Flav or Sharpton.

[Irreverend IX]

46. Well, we're nowhere near ready for the members of Motley Crue to become president either.

Dark skin or light skin, you have to fit into the "professional" mold to be considered for president.

[Rosemary2205]

54. Sharpton, Jackson, Keyes, Braun

They are all professionals who have recently run for president. Some of their ideas were very like those of their white counterparts and like those of Barack Obama now. They were never taken seriously as candidates.

Barack Obama has managed to punch through the wall - I am glad for it. But I am not anywhere near convinced America is ready for a president that whites identify as culturally black.

[regnaD kciN]

5. The irony about this thread...

...is that the rationale is the exact same one Hillary supporters are making on her behalf -- in other words, it would be "inspiring" and even "healing" to have a woman get elected president.

[Bluerthanblue]

9. Hillary said it HERSELF last night-

"But I think I am an agent of change. I embody change. I think having the first woman president is a huge change -- (applause) -- with consequences across our country and the world. "-
HR Clinton- St.Anslems College Jan. 5 2008

People are not using the word 'change' very accurately- change happens- all the time, often times in spite of our actions or desires-
But being able to 'steer' the change that is inevitable- that is something we all desire, and are sometimes successful in doing.

John Edwards and Barrack Obama spoke very well last night-

I'd be happy to vote for and work to elect either of them in the general election- and I would vote for Hillary if she was the nominee-

[Radio_Lady]

30. Bluerthanblue, I completely agree with you. I don't know why there is so much HRC bashing going on.

[UndertheOcean]

6. Actually , Obama is half white...

I won't raise by hopes up for America until a full African American gets a chance to become president.

[Bluerthanblue]

10. well- that's like being a little bit pregnant

-

imo- from the experiences of my loved ones.

[UndertheOcean]

12. No , its not at all like that .

[Bluerthanblue]

16. that may be your opinion-

/perspective-

which is no more or less valid than my own-

peace,
blu

[UndertheOcean]

21. No , mine is based on genetics

A baby inherits half his chromosomes from the father , the other half from the mother , so that baby is then half white /half black.

Your opinion is based on the racist social conception that a little bit of black genes make you black all the way.

Why do I have to explain this , its very clear.

[Bluerthanblue]

31. your basis of opinion is

no more valid than mine-

You may be able to geneticly prove that someone has genetic material that might influence the chances an individual may have to be treated with respect, equality, and fairness in this american nation-

Yet, my loved ones experiences speak their truths with much more validity to me.

And all you can look at the history of racial predjuce in this nation to underline my point.

The mere fact that Obama's ethnic background is even mentioned is proof enough-

You are trying to look at this scientificly- that isn't realistic. People don't elect leaders based on facts- predjudice towards or against people factors in heavily- in all aspects of life.

:shrug:

peace,
blu

[Riktor]

41. Not quite

Your genetic make-up is determined by the number of dominant/recessive genes present in your parents' gametes. Dominant genes overrule recessive ones. Thus, there is actually a very slim chance anyone would be exactly "half black" or "half white".

Not that this argument really matters, as there is no gene for race. Qualities seen as pertaining to the American social construct of "race" are actually controlled by a small number of insignificant genetic markers that determine physical appearance.

[UndertheOcean]

42. thank you for the information

"Qualities seen as pertaining to the American social construct of "race" are actually controlled by a small number of insignificant genetic markers that determine physical appearance."

I totally agree with the point that race is mostly a social construct , what could be simply seen as human variation is seen as different races.

"Race" is a very shaky concept based on just biology. A way to divide us..

Hopefully as we evolve into more humane and rational creatures , and start intermarrying more , we will relegate "race" to the dustbin of history

[Riktor]

45. It could happen

Different physical traits exist only because human populations remained isolated for a number of centuries, which relegated genetic variability. Intermarrying spreads out genetic information and increases variability. The only obstacle to this is people's insistence on a nonexistent concept called "race".

[shugah]

13. ah, yes. not black enough.

:eyes:
what is a "full African American?":shrug:

[UndertheOcean]

15. One whose mother or father is not white.

[shugah]

18. well, then, you're going to have to define "african american"

it's not that many generations since slavery in this country. what if a candidate for president had a great-great-grandmother that was offspring of a white plantation owner and a slave? would that person qualify as a "full african american"?

[UndertheOcean]

19. It is all a matter of degree , but if your birth MOTHER is white then you are half white definately

Also half black , I don't subscribe to the racist idea that if you have one drop of black blood in you you are no longer white,I find such categorization abhorrent.

[shugah]

22. well i'm sure that all the black people with

"one drop of white blood" that have never been white are thrilled that you are the one who gets to categorize if they are white or black. i couldn't stand the pressure, myself. good luck with it!

"definately!"

[UndertheOcean]

23. see post #21

[shugah]

29. half white/half black

based on genetics... mother and father - no consideration of the genealogy of either the maternal or paternal family tree. or the branches above that.

you're either white, "full african american", or ... ?

[UndertheOcean]

32. whats your point ?

do you find my classification morally suspect ?

[shugah]

34. nah! my point is - you're tiresome

and i'm not goin' to talk to you no more!

best wishes finding your way!

[Bluerthanblue]

35. I find your classification

functionally suspect-

In theory it shouldn't matter what 'genetic' background anyone has. Fractions/percentages/ whatever.

In reality, society, particularly american society does not, and has not looked at individuals with their eyes and minds 'wide-open'.

Prejudice is very real, and doesn't rely on 'science'- or percentages.

[Riktor]

44. It isn't suspect, it is scientifically groundless

The number of slave women raped by the masters was so severe a large population of African Americans posses some European genetic heritage. Furthermore, your opponent has simplified the process of sexual reproduction to the point of absurdity. The traits you inherit from your parents are not doled out 50-50 just because it takes two to create a baby. Your characteristics are determined by your parents' comparative kereotype. Recessive genes are overruled by dominant ones, so the percentage genes you inherit from each parent is directly related to the number of dominant/recessive genes in their make-up.

For instance, my parents divorced and my mother remarried. Both of my biological parents are of Irish and German descent, and both had blue eyes. Thus, I have blue eyes. However, my two half brothers, who were born from my mother and her second husband, who is Chinese, have brown eyes. This isn't because genes are handed out proportionately, but because brown eye pigment is a dominant trait whereas no eye pigment (blue) is a recessive trait.

Furthermore, trying to argue "race" from biological perspective is pure nonsense. "Race" is a social construct, and the concept varies across different cultures. The Human Genome Project proved quite conclusively there are no human subspecies, and thus, there is no such thing as race.

[shugah]

7. I agree!

i found myself rooting for the wealthy white guy while watching the iowa results coming in, but i also realized that it would be a mighty proud moment for this country to be able to pull the lever for a black man for president.

i'm a kucinich idealist/dreamer/supporter and am tending towards edwards as the 'viable' choice - i really like what he is saying. i am doing the best i can to keep an open mind about all the candidates. if obama gets the nomination, i'll vote for him, with a flutter of my heart, because da-amn! what an accomplishment - not just for obama (yes, for him too) but for our country.

[TahitiNut]

14. Funny thing .... I agree with your post - word for word. It describes my feelings to a 'T' as well.

Strange. But I'm glad of it. :shrug: (IIRC, it isn't the first time, either.) :hi:

[shugah]

24. that makes me happy!

thanks TahitiNut!

:hi:

[Breeze54]

11. But he's a white man!

:P

I was very excited when Deval Patrick was elected as Governor in MA too!

My youngest son went with friends into Boston to see him sworn in!! ;)

[mb7588a]

17. shit man... it's very exciting to see a DEMOCRAT have a shot! woot. nt.

[Radio_Lady]

33. Ding-ding-ding! That's the message we should be pumping out!

:hi:

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shugah]

26. your "understanding of ending racism" is flawed

seriously flawed.

[Blue-Jay]

27. Great posit! [sic]

:thumbsup:

[fishwax]

39. you're quite mistaken

"I mean seriously, my understanding is that to end racism we need to see things as colorblind."

[noto]

40. So instead of just saying 'you're quite mistaken'

Why not provide your own opinion? It seems like that might foster a certain discourse, don't you think?

[fishwax]

43. i did provide my own opinion

namely, I suggested that it's mistaken to believe that "to end racism we need to see things as colorblind." :shrug:

[Karenina]

49. "Colorblind Racism!"

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

http://www.bc.edu/schools/law/lawreviews/meta-elements/journals/bctwj/24_2/07_TXT.htm

[Oak2004]

25. No, the vast majority of Americans are still racist

This shows in many ways, some quite ugly (the incarceration rate for black men being one of them). That said, overt racism is ebbing, and people are becoming open to "exceptional" African Americans.

There's a long way to go, but yes, we've made some progress.

[avenger64]

36. I'm glad you said it like that ...

... 'majority of Americans', because there's plenty of black racists as well. I completely agree.

However, on your parenthetical, crime statistics indicate that black men commit a disproportionate amount of crime. Perhaps the institutions of a society that has so much crime in the black community need to be examined, especially in the sphere of economic opportunity, but personal responsibility is still crucial.

[Brewman_Jax]

62. Plenty of "black racists"?

really? I've never seen any in any cross-burning photos.

There's a difference between having your feelings hurt and having your rights, choices, and opportunities limited because you have the wrong skin tone.

[Radio_Lady]

37. Where is your proof that the vast majority of Americans are still racist???

This is the second time I've tackled you tonight and I'm getting fed up with your positioning of this primary.

You are in one of the whitest states in the US (Vermont) and in Burlington, of all places, one of the most liberal cities in the US. My kids grew up in that area -- their stepmother still lives there and my kids still have stepsiblings and friends there.

You are using prison statistics to prove that the country is overwhelmingly racist? How does that prove ANYTHING? Give me a break. I just don't get it.

[Oak2004]

47. Most sociologists who have studied the issue agree that racism is very much alive in America

Every metric that measures social standing by race indicates that racism is alive and well. The incarceration rate, which you dismiss so blithely as "prison statistics", is so atrocious that international human rights groups regularly cite it among America's human rights failings. There is a demonstrated income disparity. Clever tests, such as asking instructors to grade a paper and telling one group it was written by an African American, and the other by a white student, have shown bias in grading. Bias has been demonstrated in hiring, with African Americans significantly less likely to be hired than whites with comparable qualifications. Housing in America is still as segregated today as it was when fair housing acts were passed nationally and by the states. When researchers have controlled for income level and insurance status, it is still the case that African Americans receive poorer health care (many are never even offered lifesaving treatments which are standard and are routinely offered white men). And I have barely scratched the surface: the evidence is overwhelming.

What sociologists have demonstrated is that contemporary racism in America is quite often sublimated. Individuals who discriminate are often unaware of their racism, or rationalize it. One group of Harvard researchers has found a way to reveal racism and other hidden biases, the Implicit Association Test, which can be accessed on the net at https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ . You may want to see how you score on their test of racial preferences-- it's unlikely to be "unbiased".

Your claims defy a vast body of research, the opinions of international human rights groups, and the consensus among civil rights activists. What's more, your entire argument boils down to "you live in Vermont, therefore you're wrong", which amounts to a personal attack (in fact you admit as much in your choice of language, saying you're "tackling" me rather than phrasing it as a debate on the issue). As I mention elsewhere in my other reply to you, I come from the south side of Chicago, became an activist when Martin Luther King Jr. began a campaign for fair housing in Chicago, and I moved to Vermont in 1998. Even your ad hominem argument falls apart.

You are the one making claims that fall well outside the mainstream. You're the one who has the burden of proof. Provide evidence that racism in America is largely dead. And if you can make such a case, I'll bet a few scientific journals will be interested in publishing your results (just as anyone who can prove Newton and Einstein were wrong about gravity would find scientific journals falling over each other to publish such an astonishing discovery).

[Imagevision]

28. Get your sh*t together, listen to Obama's speech/content, adding 'he's black' sez not much about you

The so-called Barack supporters are doing nothing for this cause by adding the racist bs.

[Perry Logan]

50. We're beyond racism. But sexism and misogyny are still going strong.

[mudesi]

55. Like it or not, he is the FIRST black person to have a REAL shot at winning

It is absolutely noteworthy. After centuries of slavery, segregation, and institutional racism, America has shown that it can move beyond it.

[treestar]

52. Right on! The Right Wing Talking Point about being "ready"

should just be responded to with "yes" and then moving on to the issues. We need to finally learn not to let the right wing frame everything and lead us around being defensive.

[donheld]

56. Yes it is very nice

In spite of ourselves we're making progress

[hiphopnation]

57. disagree strongly with this sentiment

The vast majority of Americans are not racists

it's simply not true -- 2007 was the year of the Jena 6 and the Imus debacle (sure he was fired, but he's back on the air!). 2005 was the year of Katrina.

I guess I am one of the "naysayers" of which you speak. There may not be burned crosses on the front lawn of your neighborhood black family, but institutional racism, arguably a lot more damaging as its so elusive and hard to identify, is alive and kicking. Jim Crow is now Jim Crow, Esq. Think about it.

Pointing to the nomination this early in the dem primary of a half-Caucasian, half-Kenyan who spent most of his formative years OUTSIDE the United States (with its own unique brand of racism) as evidence that most Americans are not racist is a very, very weak analogy.

his skin color is a factor ... and it should be.

This sentiment is, in and of itself, a form of racism. Why should his skin color be a factor in his bid for the presidency?

His ethnicity may very well be a factor, but should it be? Hell no, IMHO. The ONLY thing that should be a factor in his election is his ability to handle the job, to tell the truth, and to fight for the causes that are deemed most important by those who vote for him. That's it!

[dkofos]

60. I would be prouder if he wasn't a corporatist.