New bulbs may be harmful

[flashl]

Candles are next to be banned

Earlier this month {DEC}, Thomas Edison’s GE, together with Sylvania and Philips won a legislative victory when Congress passed an energy bill that would outlaw sale of the standard light bulb by 2012.

Sylvania is the leading light bulb maker worldwide, and GE is tops in America. These two companies, together with Dutch-based Royal Phillips Electronics, concede they basically wrote the new light bulb law. It goes without saying that they stand to profit from it — at consumer expense.

That is because the energy bill raises energy efficiency requirements to a level that most incandescent light bulbs in use today cannot meet, which would force most people to switch to the more expensive compact fluorescent bulbs.

There is a new report that gives one pause:

Low-energy bulbs harmful to some

British researchers warn environmentally friendly, energy-saving, light bulbs could cause skin cancer and trigger migraines.

The bulbs' light, which is more intense than traditional incandescent bulbs, also can exacerbate eczema and other skin problems, The Daily Telegraph reported Saturday.

An estimated 340,000 people could be harmed if the British government phases out incandescent bulbs by 2011, as planned, without allowances for light-sensitive medical conditions, warned the British Association of Dermatologists and the Migraine Action Association.

"The government simply must allow incandescent light bulbs to be available to these people, their families, friends and employers, and at a fair price," said Dr. Colin Holden, president of the dermatologists' association.

UPI - Read Full Text

Each time there are sweeping changes driven by the markets, like the bulbs, the manufacturer's risks are those who are affected. Most times, those who are affected are told 'just get over it'. More discussion is needed.

[jakem]

1. i saw a news story on this-

it said that the migraine link is completely non-scientific-

obviously fluorescents have been suspected for some time by migraine sufferers, but has anyone seen actual proof of this connection with the new bulbs?

[crikkett]

4. it's the flicker that does it I think.

[sam sarrha]

6. are these the 'new' bulbs with mercury in them..?? what 'New' bulbs.. there some coming out with a

crystal on them powered by LED's.. the spiral lights that have mercury can be dangerous if you break one, the mercury will evaporate and contaminate your home for decades ..the mercury must be removed.. they came thru our lad all the time vacuuming all the edges and cracks in the tables and floors

[Tesha]

14. The amount of mercury in a CFL is insignificant.

> if you break one, the mercury will evaporate and contaminate your home for decades ..the mercury must be removed.

The amount of mercury in a CFL is insignificant and certainly
doesn't "contaminate your home for decades".

Where do people *GET* these ideas???

Tesha

[KatyaR]

2. Just like the bill that cancels analog broadcast of television signals in 2009--

it's so great to have a Congress that stands up for us common folk. :sarcasm:

[Tesha]

3. Whatever do these people do now? Do they *NEVER* go into a commercial setting?

Whatever do these people do now? Do they *NEVER* go into a
commercial setting? Because all commercial settings (whether
for work or retail) are jam-packed full of fluorescent and
high-intensity discharge lighting with cinventional incandescent
lighting only used for accent purposes.

In other words, this article is likely a bunch of unsupported
hooey.

Tesha

[piesRsquare]

7. The flicker of fluorescent lights causes problems

for people with photo-sensitive epilepsy as well. And yes, this is scientific fact.

I have such issues. My vision is 20/40, so I can even legally drive without my glasses, but when I go to a commercial setting for an extended time, I wear them inside the building because they're tinted (the tinting has no effect on flickering, but it "eases" the brightness of the light, which seems to help, for some reason).

Some places I can hardly stand to be in...usually places that have fluorescent lighting with exposed bulbs (like Home Depot or Costco).

Incandescent bulbs should remain available.

[TZ]

11. They will be for photophobes

Special exceptions will be made available. Also I think that a lot of places are going to the lower energy LED lighting which may be better than fluorescent.

[sam sarrha]

40. there is a new Crystal LED that is 50% more efficient..>Link>>

http://www.physorg.com/news7421.html

[Tesha]

12. I think I'll need a citation for that claim.

> The flicker of fluorescent lights causes problems
> for people with photo-sensitive epilepsy as well.
> And yes, this is scientific fact.

I think I'll need a citation for that claim.

The 120 Hz (North Armerica) or 100 Hz (Rest of the World)
flickering of fluorescent lights is far above the frequencies
that trigger photosensitive epilepsy. And many fluorescents
run on electronic ballasts don't flicker at all.

Tesha

[piesRsquare]

23. No problemo! :)

Here you go:

"Reflex epilepsy is the name given to seizures which are triggered by individual sensitivity to sensory stimulation in the environment.

The most common form is photosensitive epilepsy -- that is, seizures caused by exposure to intense or fluctuating levels of light. Some people have seizures triggered by flashing lights or rapidly alternating light and dark patterns. The condition usually begins in childhood and may be outgrown by adulthood.

A flickering fluorescent light, the flicker of sunlight while driving past standing trees, certain video games, or flashing strobe lights can trigger seizures in photosensitive people. The reflex response may be absence (staring) seizures, myoclonic (jerking) seizures, or generalized convulsions. Wearing polarized sunglasses with blue lenses has been cited as good protection against photosensitive reflex seizures." (emphasis added)

From here: http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/about/types/syndromes/reflex.cfm

[Tesha]

27. The "flickering" fluorescent light they're referring to is one that its malfunctioning...

The "flickering" fluorescent light they're referring to is one
that its malfunctioning and repeatedly attempting to start or
is at its end-of-life and rectifying.

There is a very specific set of frequencies that trigger
photosensitive epileptics and the 100 or 120 Hz flicker
of properly-operating fluorescents is *FAR* from that
range of frequencies.

Tesha

[pitohui]

72. tesha, you're telling the person with the disease that the disease doesn't exist?

i don't think you're going to win that argument, you just make yourself look unreasonable

the person is going to believe their experience and their doctors, not their invisible friend on the internet

for the record, i've heard of others besides this poster who have this condition, it may be unusual but it sure ain't unheard of

telling sick people that they're imagining things is rarely useful

[Tesha]

77. It's often true, though.

> elling sick people that they're imagining things is rarely useful

It's often true, though. And in the case of photosensitive
epilepsy, it's definitely true that properly-fucntioning
fluorescent lighting *DOES NOT* provoke seizures.

By the way, the person writing above makes no claim to having
photosensitive epilepsy.

Tesha

[EFerrari]

24. It looks like it's the combo of the lights with other environmental

elements. I found this:



What factors can affect photosensitivity?

* the number of light flashes per second (hertz)
* the intensity (brightness) of the light
* the amount of your field of vision that is exposed to the light or pattern. In other words, there is more chance of triggering a seizure if you are watching a very large TV screen or sitting very close to the screen
* the background light levels. For example, the flickering from a fluorescent tube light could interact with the light from a screen and trigger a seizure. The risk of this happening may be reduced by using non-fluorescent lights.

http://www.epilepsynse.org.uk/pages/info/leaflets/photo.cfm

/oops

[nebenaube]

32. wrong

its 60Hz in USA, 50Hz in Europe. Both fall within the physiological bandwidth of the EEG. The photosensitive seizures trigger on the subharmonics of these frequencies. Most EEG wavelengths run from 0.5Hz to 120Hz although the recordings filter the high end at 70Hz (sleep study) or 120Hz (EEG study).

[Tesha]

36. Unfortunately (for you), lights flicker at *TWICE* the mains frequency.

Unfortunately (for you), nearly all lights (except for LED
Chritsmas lights) flicker at *TWICE* the mains frequency.

So 120 Hz in North America and 100 Hz in the Rest of the world.

Tesha

[nebenaube]

38. really?

Got a source for that?

[Tesha]

39. Just any electrical engineering text in the world. Or...

Just any electrical engineering or lighting text in the world.

Or:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_fusion_threshold

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon-wheel_effect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_ballast

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_image_formats

Or:

You can hook a photodiode to an oscilloscope and see
this for yourself.

---

And while you're at it, give a read to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_epilepsy

Tesha

[mrfrapp]

65. High School Physics n/t

[conscious evolution]

74. This is correct.

A 60 Hz syatem will result in 120 on/off cycles per second.
Most people cannot detect this because of its high speed.Some people will see it with their peripheral vision.
Sometimes it can also be seen when a strobe light is operating.
I can see it when I am under the influence of certain illegal substances.

The long irregularily timed(a second or more) flicker everyone sees is an indication the ballast needs replacing.The ballast go bad because the bulb was kept in use past its lifespan.Flourescants can go bad and still operate.

How to tell if a bulb is approaching the end of its lifespan and needs replacing-If you see a black ring within a few inches of either/both ends of the tube it needs replacing.Even if there is no noticeable flicker or problem with the bulb.
I don't remember exactly what causes this but I do know that each ring doubles the resistance thru the bulb.The increased resistance will cause premature failure of the ballast transformer.

[Tesha]

78. The black ring is the effect of sputtering...

> I don't remember exactly what causes this...

The black ring is the effect of the sputtering-off of the electron-
emmissive material that coats the cathodes of the fluorescent lamp.

That is, at each end of the tube, there's a fine coil of tungsten
wire. This wire is coated with stuff that makes it easier for
electrons to be emitted (to jump off) into the gases inside the
tube. But as those electrons then smash into the wire at the
opposite end of the tube, they knock off bits of the coating.
Eventually, the knocked-off coating makes those black rings.
And when enough of the coating has been knocked-off of the
cathodes, the cathodes can't emit enough electrons to keep
the lamp lit and the lamp croaks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputtering

Tesha

[Catch22Dem]

21. I've never experienced flicker in my compact fluorescents

Now, I get it all the time at work with the old fluorescent lighting (long tubes) but not the compact fluorescents I use at home.

[Tesha]

29. The key is the use of electronic ballasts.

Electronic ballasts store more energy so the light doesn't
extinguish 100 or 120 times per second as the incoming power
cycles through zero volts.

All the "spiral" CFLs use electronic ballasts as do most
modern high-efficiency "long-tube" fluorescent lamps.
Cheap long-tube fluorescent fixtures still use magnetic
ballasts and flicker at twice the power line frequency.

Better magnetic ballasts ("Lead-Lag" ballasts) cause the
individual lamps to flicker at twice the mains frequency,
but the two lamps in the fixture flicker "out of phase"
with each other so the overall light output from the
fixture is pretty constant.

Tesha

[Catch22Dem]

67. Ahh, makes sense then.

I appreciate it. You seem to have a great deal of knowledge of fluorescent lighting. An odd thing to be an expert in. :D

[smirkymonkey]

59. I have had the flourescent lights above my desk unscrewed.

....and miraculously, no more pounding headaches at the end of the day. One place I worked at made me keep them on and I had excruciating headaches every day (even though I told them about it, they said it was "company policy" that all the light bulbs stay on. Of course, I left that job after one year - the lighting was just part of it, but it makes a huge difference to me.

Even at home I use 20 or 40 Watt bulbs because I can't stand bright light, but flourescent light is hellish for me.

[EFerrari]

9. I myself avoid them like the plague and, I'm not sure how I got through

school. The lighting does give me headaches and it changes my mood.

[Tesha]

13. How do you avoid them at work? At stores? In streets at night? (NT)

[EFerrari]

15. I work at home and shop mostly on line.

Seriously, I didn't figure out for a long time that part of the reason I hated shopping malls was because they give me a headache after about fifteen minutes. I thought I just didn't like shopping. Ditto for working corporate jobs. I worked for ATT for about a year and had daily headaches. I thought I just hated the job. :shrug:

For some reason, street lights at night don't seem to bother me as much. I don't know why.

[conscious evolution]

18. Street lights are different bulbs

Sodium vapor or metal halide.
They are basic ly incandescent bulbs on steroids.

Older fluorescent bulbs can cause flicker vertigo seizures but the newer electronic ballasts have solved that problem.

[Tesha]

25. No, they are *NOT* "basically incandescent bulbs on steroids"

> Street lights are different bulbs
> Sodium vapor or metal halide.
> They are basic ly incandescent bulbs on steroids.

No, they are *NOT* "basically incandescent bulbs on steroids"; they
are high-intensity discharge lamps that routinely flicker in exactly
the same way as conventional magnetic-ballsted fluorescent lamps.

And mercury-vapor and metal-halide street lamps give off ultraviolet
light in much the same proportions as fluorescent lamps.

Tesha

[conscious evolution]

69. Have you ever worked with MH or SV lights?

I have.I have installed thousands of the things
If you have you may have noticed the filaments.The ones flourescent bulbs do not have.

They may flicker for a moment until they are up to operating temperature after which they have a steady light emission.

Personnaly,I prefer LED or low wattage halogen lighting.LED lightbulbs use even less enerrgy than CFLs and halogens,combined with dimmers,use just a hair more energy then CFLs.

[Tesha]

70. Metal Halide and high-pressure Sodium lights *DO NOT CONTAIN FILAMENTS*.

Have you ever worked with MH or SV lights?

Mercury vapor, Metal Halide and High-Pressure Sodium
lights *DO NOT CONTAIN FILAMENTS*; they
contain tungsten electrodes.

o http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury-vapor_lamp
o http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_halide_lamp
o http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_vapor_lamp


Low-pressure sodium lamps and some fluorescent lamps
*DO* contain filaments, but they're not used for their
incandescent properties but rather for their electron-
emissive properties.

o http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp


All of these lamps derive their light directly or indirectly
from an electrical arc discharge, not from causing a hunk of
tungsten to incandesce.

You don't seem to really know what you're talking about.

Tesha

[conscious evolution]

71. So a wiki article makes you an expert huh?

Break open the arc tube of a SV or a MH light sometime.They are solid silica or quartz rod with gases imbeded inside.More like an incandascent bulb then a flourescant bulb,which works by exciting gases instead of creating an arc like the other styles.


Did you know incandescents were originally called arc lights?
MH and SV lights,like incandesent lightbulbs,do not flicker when at operating temperature.

By the way,the arc tube from a SV bulb makes an excellant knife sharpening rod!

One more thing.This year I have removed over 300 Kw of electrical demand this year from my clients homes.That is 300kw that never has to be generated again.
How many Kw have you taken off the grid?

[Tesha]

76. Well, it leaves me on more-solid ground than you.

> So a wiki article makes you an expert huh?

Well, it leaves me on more-solid ground than you. But you'll
also find that the various manufacturer's literature supports
everything I've been saying as well.

You, on the other hand, have proven you have no idea what you're
talking about.


> Did you know incandescents were originally called arc lights?

No, "arc lights" were orginally called "arc lights"
(and, in fact, still are).



Tesha

[EFerrari]

31. I think it's more that no one stares at a street light and

whatever flicker there is maybe be diffused or absorbed by the surrounding darkness.

[Tesha]

37. "Flicker" isn't diffused by the darkness.

But yes, people don;t normally stare at street lights.

Tesha

[Tesha]

48. If you have one of those "blue LED floating messages in space" alarm clocks...

> "Flicker" isn't diffused by the darkness.

Expanding on my own reply above, if you have one of
those "Blue LED floating messages in space" alarm
clocks and you've ever tried to sleep in the same
dark room with it, you'll see what I mean. While
persistence of vision tends to make the intensity
of the LEDs seem pretty-constant when you're actually
looking directly at the floating message, when you see
the rest of the room by the light emitted by the blue
LEDs, it's all flashing wildly at about twice the
rate at which the arm oscillates.



Tesha

[EFerrari]

58. I couldn't be in the same room with one of those thiings, lol.

I don't know what happens mechanically or physically with street lights. But, the effect sure isn't the same as being in a room where there are tiers of fluorescent lights. It may be as simple as there are so many other places outside to look and get relief.

Fyi, I didn't identify any of this until well into my 40s. For all the light sensitivity, I also have a pretty high pain threshold. In my 20s and 30s, I just chalked it up to having to deal with life on this planet and, did. When I started working at home, my productivity went up dramatically and that's when I started figuring out that the lighting might have had something to do with all those headaches and etc.

[Tesha]

22. Ahh, so you sit in front of a flickering CRT or a fluorescent-lit flat panel screen instead?

Ahh, so you sit in front of a flickering, X-Ray-emitting CRT
or a fluorescent-lit flat panel screen instead?

Sorry, you haven't convinced me.

Tesha

[EFerrari]

28. I can look away from the small screen.

The light isn't everywhere. It's entirely different.

[goddess40]

20. When I feel a migraine coming I avoid them if they're bothering me

They aren't a prime trigger for me but they can accelerate the onset and sometimes if I get away from them the migraine doesn't progress. I don't work as I'm on disability for something else but when I did work I sometimes had to go home - better that then heap of puking pain laying on the floor at work.

Perfumes and cigarette smoke are two of my primary triggers and they can be hard to avoid as well. Since the advent of some of the anti-migraine drugs I seldom have a full blown migraine. At least at home I can have light that doesn't aggravate the issue I think that's all anyone is requesting here.

I do believe that not all these type of bulbs are equal, some have a noticeable flicker and other use different light spectrum's which may effect each person differently. Between now and the phasing out of the bulbs I'm sure some changes will be made and it won't be a factor any more.

[pnwmom]

43. My son's ophthalmologist, a Harvard trained specialist, told him to

avoid these lights as much as possible, because of his migraines. He also suggested that he try to wear a cap with a visor if he has to be around them. Lots of doctors take this seriously, even if you don't.

[goddess40]

5. As someone who suffers from migraines

I don't believe these lights have ever caused one solely but they can aggravate one that is already started or if the conditions are right they can be the final impact that makes a migraine happen.

Many who have never had migraines find it hard to understand how horrible the pain is and if allowing some people to use different light bulbs would help some that are more sensitive them then I am I say they should allow it.

[depakid]

16. Heck, ANY halfway bright light (or sounds or smells)

exacerbate my migraines.

While it's only anecdotal. I haven't noticed any difference with migraine incidence since I replaced my old bulbs. Also, it doesn't seem to be a problem in Australia, where damn near everyone now uses them.

[Tesha]

26. Thank you! *THAT* sounds correct! (NT)

[TZ]

8. Old news...

And for photosensitives the incandescents will still be available. But yes, the commercial lighting in most offices is also hurtful to photosensitives like Lupus patients. I know at least one Lupus patient who has these bulbs and they don't get her a problem.
There is also the new LED lighting which seems like it might be less trying to photophobes.
BTW, tell me why a new bulb thats cheaper, and longer lasting and MORE environmentally friendly is going to be a big money maker to the corportations which you seem to be claim?
Your arguments are similar to those from the right...except they object because they don't like the slightly dimmer lights.Yes, lets not worry about the environment. Our comfort is more important.
IMO, you are one of the more biased posters around and don't seem to understand the topics you rail about very much or you will know that lots of "discussion" on this topic has been going on.
And no, this change was driven by the desire to save the environment. Or did you miss the part that the dems wrote this bill basically?
Oh I am sorry, you are the only one who is not a corporate whore oh holier than thou purist?
The right does not have the exclusive patent on anti-intellectual knee-jerks.

[flashl]

19. It is CURRENT news. Maybe OLD news to you.

Suddenly we are suppose to believe that corps who writes legislation for Congress has turned green and are acting in the interest of the public?

Somehow, we are supposed to feel good about light bulb legislation while this country is in the middle of a health care crisis. Is that the best that Congress can offer is a bill for light bulbs? Did you miss the past year where the dems have not been acting on behalf of its base?

The point of the article is, there are concerns raised about health issues for individuals with migraines, lupus, and epilepsy. If there are concerns from any group, their concerns and voices are equally valid and should not be muted.

In the name of 'efficiency' and 'cost effectiveness' we have an abomination call 'health care'.

[Tesha]

30. Not all "concerns" are actually valid, though. (NT)

[flashl]

33. Individuals self-reporting may not meet medical standards

How long did it take to observe complaints, from mostly women, to call it Chronic fatigue syndrome? Years went by, many went from doctor to doctor and were simply labeled as kooks.

How long did it take to acknowledge sick-building syndrome?

[EFerrari]

34. Same with mental health issues. There are still people out there

who deny that depression is real. "Medical standards" can go take a flying leap. The goal is well being, not conforming. lol

[flashl]

35. Yet, 'science' invents ADD to use a drug call ritalin

and 'science' will not acknowledge the harm of ritalin or prozac on our youth.

[originalpckelly]

56. We have a winner. GE is fucking with us. They couldn't give a damn about the environment...

they push nuclear energy for fuck's sake!

Our countries are fascist, and that means government intervention in the economy on the behalf of big corporations.

[MadHound]

10. This is wrong on many levels.

First, from the health and better life standpoint, there are many, many people out there who simply can't abide to live in a florescent environment all of their waking days. My wife is one of these, due to an eye injury her pupil doesn't dilate and contract normally, in addition to the scar tissue and such built up inside the eye. She sees well enough, but lights, especially certain types of lights bother her greatly, causing headaches, triggering migraines, and in general making her life miserable. There are many millions in the same boat she is, what are they supposed to do, live out their lives in pain and agony?

Second, CFLs simply don't fulfill all of the current lighting needs the way incandescents do. Photographic lighting, makeup lighting, small nightlights, three way bulbs, many antique lamps, all these and more are much more suited to incandescent lights rather than CFLs. What, are we going to throw all of that away?

Third, there is the environmental aspect. CFLs have mercury in them. Yes, there are half hearted campaigns out there to inform people about this and encourage them to recycle bulbs rather than simply trashing them, but is this really effective? No, it isn't, and frankly it won't be anymore effective in four years either. Thus even more mercury will be leached into our environment. Rather than focusing on the business end of electric chain, we need to focus on the production end and start switching away from coal to wind, solar and other renewable and clean alternatives.

But let us not once again throw an entire mature technology out without having an adequate replacement. Frankly, if this comes to pass, I'm going to stockpile lightbulbs over the next few years, because I don't want my wife living in agony the rest of her life because of an idiotic, short sighted Congress.

[riverdeep]

17. Competetive Enterprise Institute?

That's the first link. Here's a couple of CEI's Board of Directors: Michael Greve-American Enterprise Institute-that's home to such luminaries of personal integrity as John Bolton and Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle; Thomas Gale Moore -Hoover Institute-where they have bred freaks of the right for years like Condi Rice and Newt Gingrich.

As to the substance, I agree that consumer complaints should be taken seriously. While some here may tell people to 'get over it, stop being selfish and start saving the environment', in reality, people are going to do what they're going to do. Listening to their complaints, and modifying products accordingly, makes environmentally led policies much more likely to be successful in the long run.

And these bulbs are a good idea, most energy (90%) in an incandescant bulb goes into heat instead of light. But if people don't like the light they give off, if they have safety concerns, these need to be addressed instead of ignored to increase compliance.

[originalpckelly]

55. Yes, but last time I checked, UPI was the originator of the second story.

If a conservative says 2+2 = 4, does it mean it's not 4?

[sam sarrha]

41. this is new Technology... 50% more efficient, >Link>>

http://www.physorg.com/news7421.html

i have not had the new bulbs last anywhere as long as they say, i keep my reciepts and write the date i bought them on the light.. and take them back..

[begin_within]

42. Not to mention eyestrain!

I hate fluorescent light. In my opinion it causes eyestrain. I try to do as much work as possible in the daytime, using daylight from the windows.

[ThePowerofWill]

44. Entirely bullshit.

Cf's are only more intense if you are using 100w cf to replace a 100w incandescent, but you don't do that. You replace a 100w incandescent with a 20-25w cf, a 70w incandescent gets replaced by a 15w bulb. Yes they are more intense, but you are not supposed to use them as a watt by watt replacement. Also as with any flouro other than VHO's(very high output like t-8, or t-5's)the major intensity is all within one foot of the bulb. The light dissipates very quickly after that.

There is no flicker in a cf. All cf's are electronic ballast, which eliminates flicker. If you have a cf flickering it is faulty and needs replacing.

Have heard folks bitch about stark white light temps causing harm via headaches, and eye strain. This can be easily fixed because cf's come in a variety of color temps. They range from a very yellow 2,5-3,000k to ultra stark white or 9,000k+. So you can get the same color spectrum from cf's as incandescent.

[TreasonousBastard]

45. That was some article. It...

didn't say much more than what it said here, and didn't bother to identify the "British Researchers" or their work.

I don't buy most of the the health fears from flourescents at all-- they can be made in so many formulations that anyone with a problem should be able to find one that works. Brightness, color temperature, flickering, and spectrum are already available in CFLs that make them indistiguishable from incandescants. Many aren't available through common retail channels, but I already see that changing.

Ultraviolet is also controllable, with A, B, and C created with special phosphors, or filtered out as necessary.

Brightness and spectrum may be the biggest problems with some people. Cool-white fluorescents are usually greenish, while warm-whites are primarily yellow. Then there's the cheap daylight types that are too blue. Red phosphors are missing in all of these because they are the most expensive ones to use. Full-spectrum flourescents are more expensive, but add the red and come in 2800-3400K color temps-- the common range of incadescants.

My personal favorite "daylight" lamp is a full-spectrum 5000K and I've found close ones at Home Despot and even Pathmark-- 5200K at a CRI of 92%. (CRI= "color rendering index" and you want over 90%.) When you get away from the common cool- and warm- white lamps the bulbs put out fewer lumens, and the lumens in CFLs are already in a wide range.

About mercury---

http://www.informinc.org/fact_P3fluorescentlamps.php

So, we already use so many fluorescents that we're tossing 2-4 tons of mercury in the landfills now? That may not be good, but the less than a microgram or so in CFLs shouldn't increase that significantly. As it is, awareness of this problem is increasing, and where recycling is available it's only personasl laziness that prevents proper recycling-- the same as with cans, bottles, and plastics.

[NuttyFluffers]

47. yay, someone who actually knows something about bulbs!

i'm surprised so many here are buying into this when saying FL is such a broad brush statement. you can manufacture various types of FLs, and easily tailor it into something that's exactly like the lumens, color temp, and spectrum of your favorite incandescents. just up the flicker higher and you got a better bulb that saves energy, too. a lot of fear over partial awareness of the technology's capacity -- a pity.

[NuttyFluffers]

46. there's various FLs out there. should not be much of an issue.

there's those that operate at higher cycles, thus obviating any migraine, mood, and epilepsy issues and those that operate on broader or narrower spectrum, thus dealing with the eczema and UV sensitivity issue. the problem is many of these FL bulbs are poorly known and not in the mass market usage in commercial/gov't settings. a problem easily solved by encouraging the solutions already there to become more "marketable" and thus available.

yes Virginia, we can save energy and keep you healthy, all at the same time...

all we need is will to push these other FL bulbs into mass production. that requires grassroots organizations talking to bulb manufacturers and retail/gov't sectors is all. but it'll never happen. people like to complain instead. makes for better emotional release.

[flashl]

49. 'the problem is many of these FL bulbs are poorly known and not in the mass market'

Isn't that a good reason for discussion? IF the bulbs proposed are NOT in the marketplace? And, the need for consumer awareness?

[NuttyFluffers]

68. correction: marketplace and mass market are 2 different concepts

the bulbs exist, they are in the marketplace. the bulbs are not as ubiquitous as other bulbs, thus not in the mass market.

naturally yes, we need consumer awareness. naturally no, we do not need scare tactics by people blanketing an entire technology by the current popular models.

discussion is great, but letting things devolve into mob gathering and hand wringing is not productive, especially about a good technological solution. to fight back such destructive emotional responses over poorly informed awarenesses people must remind others about facts available. also a metaphorical foam bat to their head to 'wake up' tends to help stop the hysteria, too.

once the hysteria stops real solutions can be sought, such as buying specialty bulbs if you have special needs. but first you must stop the hysteria.

[Tektonik]

50. The new bulbs worry me a lot

We need a more high profile and easy way to recycle these bulbs. The new ones have trace amounts of mercury.

[Tesha]

52. What do you do with the existing fluorescent bulbs in your...

> The new ones have trace amounts of mercury.

What do you do with the existing fluorescent bulbs in your
shop lights/undercabinet lights/other places that use the
"long-style" fluorescent tubes?

Do you have a high-intensity-discharge outdoor security
light? What do you do with its old bulbs?


> We need a more high profile and easy way to recycle these bulbs.

Yes, absolutely. But please recognize that CFLs don't
change the existing situation (or need) very much.

Tesha

[dysfunctional press]

51. cfl's will be obsolete by 2012...

and i certainly hope that sylvania and ge both made the business decisions not to pursue the led as a possible consumer light sources.

[Tesha]

53. LEDs don't yet seem to be nearly bright enough or cost-effective enough.

LEDs don't yet seem to be nearly bright enough,
cost-effective enough, nor have a good-enough
color-rendering index yet.

Four years' time probably won't be enough to get them
there either, although they may get there eventually.

And what will you do if the particular LED technology
that eventually makes all that possible is a UV-emitting
LED fronted by a phosphor? Will we still here complaints
about the UV light emitted by the lamps?

Tesha

[dysfunctional press]

57. what i'll be doing is stock-piling real bulbs before 2012.

don't get me wrong, i have replaced the majority of my bulbs with cfl bulbs, including a dozen recessed floods in the kitchen- and i didn't even wait for the originals to burn out, as some do. BUT- there are some places where i don't like the fluorescents, like my reading lamp, my tv lamp, and a couple of fixtures with dimmer switches, and i will continue to use them in those places.

i also like my old-style christmas lights with the bigger incandescent bulbs- are those going to be out under the new laws as well?

[originalpckelly]

54. In Soviet Union, government chooses light bulbs for you!

Oh wait, this is the UK, isn't it?

Aw, I love the innate similarity between fascism and communism.

[Tesha]

60. Here, we let The Home Depot do it instead. (NT)

[Rex]

61. Two huge corporation write law in full transparency.

And Congress just goes along with it, fucking assholes.

[Ezlivin]

62. My submarine had only fluorescent lighting

We lived in it for months at a time, never seeing "real" light, yet none of us had epileptic fits.

As far as I know every submarine in the fleet uses fluorescents for interior lighting. We've been sending sailors to sea for years in ballistic missile boats and they spend months living in pure fluorescent lighting, yet I've never heard—either first-hand, second-hand or through any reports—that these lights trigger ill-effects.

[librechik]

63. oh. and by the 2way--you must also buy an expensive new tv set next year

even to get the civil defense code test!

[focusfan]

64. I have flourescent bulbs,I like them

I have always had them in my garage so did my dad no problem with them.I have been around them for 50 years now.

[LSK]

66. Tornados in January are more harmful

Hurricanes in NOLA are more harmful.

Wildfires in California are more harmful.

Droughts in Africa are more harmful.

[WinkyDink]

73. Overhead fluorescent lights give me migraines.

[and-justice-for-all]

75. As with medications...

Some can take them, while others can not due to reactions.

I have had the new energy saving bulbs for over a year and we have had no problems, I also do not sit under them for hours and they are all covered with a lamp shade.

[Tesha]

79. Lamp shades can help a lot.

Nobody likes to look at bright lights, so shades and diffusers
are useful, whether with fluorescent lighting, high-intensity
discharge lighting, or good-old-fashioned incandescent and
halogen lighting.

Tesha