Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I'll never stop demanding accountability and justice

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 03:26 PM
Original message
I'll never stop demanding accountability and justice
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:Human dignity denied -Torture and accountability in the ‘war on terror’


I. A familiar path to torture

Apologists for torture generally concentrate on the classical argument of expediency: the authorities are obliged to defeat terrorists or insurgents who have put innocent lives at risk and who endanger both civil society and the state itself… The accumulated evidence also gives a clear picture of the ‘preconditions’ for torture… Incommunicado detention, secret detention and ‘disappearance’ increase the latitude of security agents over the lives and well-being of people in custody.

Amnesty International, Torture in the Eighties, 1984


The torture and ill-treatment of Iraqi detainees by US agents in Abu Ghraib prison was – due to a failure of human rights leadership at the highest levels of government – sadly predictable.


"It is a recurring theme in history", said a senior United Kingdom (UK) judge in a criticism of US "war on terror" detentions, "that in times of war, armed conflict, or perceived national danger, even liberal democracies adopt measures infringing human rights in ways that are wholly disproportionate to the crisis".(7) Certainly, a glimpse at the history of torture in the 20th century was enough to ring alarm bells following the crime against humanity that was committed in the USA on 11 September 2001. The situation contained some classic ingredients that would demand principled leadership if human rights were not to suffer in the wake of such an atrocity. In the mix was an elusive, ill-defined and demonized enemy; shortcomings in intelligence-gathering; an official interpretation of the situation as new, unique and requiring special measures; and an apocalyptic picture painted by government of a stark moral choice between "good and evil" faced by society and wider "civilization".

A war mentality without commitment to the laws of war

Prior to 11 September 2001, the USA had "dealt with attacks as primarily a law enforcement matter".(16) This approach changed after the atrocities of that day. President Bush has said he decided that "we were going to war" the moment he heard that airliners had been crashed into the World Trade Center,(17) and early that afternoon he opened a video teleconference meeting with his principal advisers with the words "we’re at war".(18) He has characterized the ensuing "war on terror" as a "monumental struggle of good versus evil".(19) The President has maintained this tone, including in speeches to military audiences in his role as Commander-in-Chief.(20)




A war mentality is dangerous for human rights when a government extends the war framework to cover areas that should appropriately be addressed by law enforcement measures, and even then claims that existing laws of war do not cover this "new paradigm". Amnesty International does not believe that the so-called "war on terror" mandates a new legal framework. The territories and the circumstances in which the confrontation with al-Qa’ida or others actually takes place determine the applicable legal regime, within the existing framework of international human rights and humanitarian law. The US administration’s refusal to recognize this has fed its willingness to countenance the ill-treatment of detainees in the "war on terror".(21)


More:
Old arguments to justify torture: the concept of ‘necessity’
Not just a few ‘bad apples’

II. Human dignity denied: torture or ill-treatment of the ‘other’

Interrogation techniques with a discriminatory resonance
From stripping to sexual assault

III. Coercive interrogations and international law

Torture and ill-treatment as international crimes

IV. Human rights: the route to security, not the obstacle to it





I can't relegate the last 7 years to "the past" - some time so long ago that justice can no longer be truly achieved. As if we are helpless to do anything about it. I can't pretend the past 7 years were just some "crazy time" in America. As if what is happening is some sort of aberration never to be repeated again because somehow we know better now. War crimes were committed with the sanction and blessing of government. Intentionally. Methodically. Systemically.


I'll never stop. It's not in me.









Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nor will I Solly. k&r + a related archived leveymg thread
"CIA Detainee Torture, Memory Loss, and the Bush Administration's Falsification of History" (started 12-13-2007)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2462592
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Thanks, bobthedrummer
Great link!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. me neither
:kick:



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. (((Swamp))) Great bumper-sticker!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Great thread!
:hug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. I couldn't agree with you more, Solly...
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 03:38 PM by Blue_In_AK
If the new administration doesn't bring these people to justice, I will be very, very disappointed. We should have a Democratic president and a solid majority in both houses after this year. There's no reason not to make the criminals of the Bush administration accountable for their misdeeds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Absolutely no reason, I agree
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. Golly, you're angry . . . almost shrill
Can't we just put the past in the past, and concentrate on what's to come? Of course, without a thorough knowledge of what's gone on before, it's difficult to tell just how ruthless or bloodthirsty our adversaries might be. But since they're terrorists who want to kill us (ph34r!), we probably need to go at them with everything we have. Anyway, be assured that the Bush administration is investigating these very serious allegations most assiduously, and just like the leak of Valerie Plame, the public should understand that President Bush will do everything he can to discover the truth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. And now that I think about it
President Bush is pretty angry, too. So why don't we just say that mistakes were made on both sides, you libruls can apologize, and we'll just move on, mmmkay?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. You so funny :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. "Accountability"?? "Justice"??? Don't you know those are merely "False Hopes"??
Soooo.... 20th century, fox. :evilgrin:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. False hope...
Is that anything like expecting Bush to do the right thing? follow the rules? obey the law? play fair?

I've heard people actually held such hope when explaining their own actions...

:)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Touche. Sure does sound the same.
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R me neither
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Thanks, spanone
:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. The incoming Dem administration will likely try to steer us there.
This is going to be a very bumpy ride.

I'm with you, Solly Mack.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Hey, sfexpat2000
They'll be steering away from me if they do

I can't take that path
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. With you.
K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. ...
:hug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
20. kick
because it matters

and no number of elections will make it matter less
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
21. I stand with you.
I know at least one of the candidates has already said they would sweep this under the rug.
It appalls me.:mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. and we "the people" are choking to death because of that rug
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Amen to that.
:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC