Okay. I just saw the Hillary clip where she tears up a bit. My gut reaction...

[Emit]

...for what it's worth.

My first thought was ... Edwards. She was emulating Edwards. Edwards, during the debate, brought the cause to a personal level for himself. I can't recall his specific words, but it was when he was talking about the personal nature of his lifelong work, fighting against powerful insurance companies and special interests. This resonates with voters, and some of the criticism that Clinton has had following Iowa and this NH debate is that she was going on about herself -- her 35 years of experience -- and not talking about the voters like Edwards and Obama were.

I don't think she intended to become tearful to manipulate voters or the media -- I think, though, that that was a byproduct of her getting personal because she's tired and stressed -- and it's not her usual message. It's very hard to try to be in control all the time and then let yourself be vulnerable to personal emotion. It's also hard to cry on demand unless you're a seasoned actor, and despite her public persona, I don't think that's her forte. So, I think the choking up was for real, not pretend.

I think someone in her camp, or herself even, realized that she needed to add something personal to her message - something the voters can get impassioned about enough to want to vote for her. The Hillary camp can't be so naive as to not see that a lot of the grassroots enthusiasm that propels the Obama and Edwards campaigns is their reaching out personally and connecting to would be voters. To bring it to a personal level as a reason for fight instills some sort of passion, which seems to be lacking in Hillary and her supporters thus far, IMHO. Makes her less status quo, in a sense, too.



Thoughts?

edit typo

[Justyce]

1. I'm not an HRC supporter, but as a woman, this whole thing

is pissing me off. If she doesn't show emotions, she's a bitch. If she tears up, she's faking. The media will ridicule her no matter what. It's ridiculous.

[Mike Nelson]

2. It's astonishing how much the media HATES this woman!

Why don't they pick on George W. Bush?

[Inkyfuzzbottom]

3. Because it's not politically correct

to pick on the mentally disabled?

[Flabbergasted]

19. Oh I LIKED that one. Duzy possibly?

Welcome to DU

[Inkyfuzzbottom]

41. Thanks

:)

[LibraLiz1973]

32. YOWZA!!! that was great!

[Maat]

4. Exactly ...

who subverted the Constitution repeatedly by starting an illegal, immoral war and illegally spying on people?

[aquart]

17. Disproportionate, isn't it?

[Rageneau]

23. Because they hate Hillary and they love Bush.

The MSM loves Bush. He wouldn't be president if they didn't, and he would have been deposed years ago without their protection.

True, Smirk's incredible incompetence has ticked off even some of the nation's top pundits to the point where they have to reluctantly criticize him. But only superficially.

Be you a Clinton, OTOH, and the press will second-guess your every statement and ridicule your every thought. Meanwhile, they will try to dig up dirt on you and if they can't find any, will make some up.

The MSM is not picking on Bush because Bush is not the kind of politician America's mainstream media EVER picks on.

People named Roosevelt, Truman, Carter, and Clinton are the kind of people the American press picks on, and they always have been.

[rodeodance]

36. BINGO

[superkia]

37. I wish they treated Dennis Kucinch like they do Clinton.

[Emit]

53. !

That would speak volumes.

[hlthe2b]

7. I could not agree more... The misogyny is appalling....

I've seen many a male become teary and emotional when they are exhausted and are feeling strongly about something.... I'm really pissed at this and I'm not committed to Hillary Clinton or any other candidate. But, this is just damned wrong. Seems racism is verboten, but sexism and blatant misogyny is the last bastion of "acceptable" bigotry.

[Emit]

27. I mean not to imply she was faking.

Nor that she is a bitch if she doesn't show her emotions.

I'd like to think that my perceptions here are on a broader level. I do not think that gender should preclude a discussion about the actions or suspected motives behind the actions of a political candidate. She's a seasoned politician and should not be surprised at the attention this is getting. A male counterpart would receive scrutiny, as well; they're all under the microscope now.

Since I have no access to cable media, are they discussing this in terms of 'she's faking', or 'she's weak', or are they ridiculing her in some specific way?

[NoSheep]

34. It was the timing I think. A fellow DU'er downpost has an interesting take on it.

I think the candidates may be afraid of showing a true face due to the manipulation of things by the neocons. This is the very first time I have considered this where Hillary is concerned. Still, doing the "it's personal" thing after Edwards just did it looks kinda bad. Please don't take this as a personal affront. I'm just thinking (typing) out loud trying to figure this out like everybody else.

[NCarolinawoman]

43. I am getting really tired of it too.

If my primary were tomorrow (it's not), I would vote for her because as a woman I feel the need to fight back and stick it to the people doing the pile-on.

To be clear, I was/am a Joe Biden supporter and wish he were still in the race.

[calimary]

51. No kidding. She may have set some sort of record for being persecuted.

They've done everything but tie her down and waterboard her. It's really schmucky!!!

I feel bad, too, because there's a large part of me that, frankly, yearns - really yearns to see a woman as the Occupant of the Oval Office. That's a little bit of me standing up there, too. I'm almost her age. She is a standard-bearer. And with CONSIDERABLE brains, which is the kind of thing I think we're gonna be needing an awful lot of in the years ahead, because it's going to be an obscenely huge challenge fixing everything these bastards have fucked up.

But dammit, she voted for the war. Not only did she vote for the IWR, but it means she was still eagerly giving bush every benefit of every doubt. And that came up again and again for quite a long time as she voted for funding package after funding package. Undoubtedly trying to walk the tightrope of appearing strong like a commander-in-chief would. I think she was trying to position herself so that there would be less of a convincing argument that because she's "a girl," she can't be tough against external terrorists.

Fairly early on, SO MANY of us here and elsewhere among the liberal/progressive Democratic base, were able to recognize that it was a pretty bad idea to take bush at his word - there was ALWAYS another angle, an ulterior motive, an unseen scam, and you ALWAYS had to question - "who benefits?" - from every burp and fart this individual has emitted since he came on the national scene. We knew. As time went on it became clearer and clearer, and more and more of us realized it. But she "stayed the course." SURELY she had enough information and input and impartial tip-offs and observational skills to smell a rat. We did. Why didn't she?

And it comes down to that poor judgment, or willful suspension of judgment, that kept manifesting in her overall votes. Really hurts me to the quick. 'Cause I want SO BADLY to vote for a woman president. I want to see a woman working while seated at the Resolute Desk. I want to see a woman addressing both Houses of Congress, and her her words and messages. I want to operate from that sensibility, and let that mindset observe, interpret, and call the shots for awhile. And I think Hillary is smart enough and capable enough and hard-working enough and resourceful enough to make a difference and do a good, even great job. But it's that judgment thing. Who else will she misjudge, to whom will she give an undeserved benefit of the doubt? I mean, after awhile, the truth about bush has grown rather stunningly glaring, donchathink?

I dunno - just spewing. But I do know it hurts me to think I can't yet witness, and share, a landmark historical moment in the story of America. A leap in the proverbial seven-league boots. And I just can't go there. Dammit.

And for the record, I, too, think she was just plain tired, and frustrated. It's not easy to shoulder adversity in public, especially when you did once command the lead. Plus, along with the Iowa blow and the Saturday quote during a debate question about how a lot of people don't like Hillary. Imagine hearing that being said about you on all the newscasts including the hyenas who hate you anyway and see this as an acid-reflux Christmas echo. I think she's exhausted, frustrated, disheartened, embarrassed, and a little bit of it just leaked out. Not even Superwoman is immune to krypton. I don't think she faked it. And I have never heard her voice like that - soft, gentle, circumspect, and with a rather lovely timbre. It humanized her a little. Hers is quite a remarkable story in the history of the progress of American women, and she stands as a giant on that landscape. In that one episode of "West Wing" when First Lady Abbey Bartlet was pissed at her husband not taking seriously the accomplishments and glass ceiling punch-throughs of women throughout American history, and not bringing them out into the open where people can study, honor, and appreciate them. Hillary Clinton would be on that list, for certain.

[Emit]

52. calimary

That deserves its own post.

[earthlover]

5. shades of Edmund Muskie....

When Muskie cried....it was all over for him.

So will Hillary be held to the same standard as a male?

I truly sympathize with Hillary. I believe her tears were genuine. But so were Muskie's....

[druidity33]

38. see H2OMan's thread...

Apparently, Muskie said it was the snow melting on his face...

[spooky3]

45. and it was 30 years ago. You have no way to show that

he would have been treated the same way today, that the standard imposed on her today is the same as would have been imposed had he done the same today.

I personally don't think he would have been. Just as a lot of other conditions have changed, conditions for male politicians have changed.

[tulsakatz]

6. I thought it was interesting........

I think it's a good tactic to seem more personal, as if she's letting you into a part of her life that she might not always reveal to people. I also think the emotions were genuine. I don't think she could have planned that. You're right.......it would have taken some good acting skills to pull that off.

However, I don't believe she is the only one who can change this country. I believe she was sincere about what she said but if any democrat is elected, things WILL change! I just don't think she's the only one who can do that.........

[AlCzervik]

8. maybe she's just tired. Sometimes when i get really tired and i know sleeping isn't

in the immediate future i get grouchy, maybe she just gets a bit teary.

[Swamp Rat]

11. Exactly!

:thumbsup:

[Emit]

29. Heck.

As I told another poster, same topic, I cry these days when I hear "The Little Drummer Boy."

[salin]

9. Since I came on tonight, I have read about this clip, but I haven't seen it

can anyone give me a link?

[Emit]

12. It's here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVlwH7-05Fk

And the related subject, in case you need that one too: Bill Clinton Can't Make Hillary Taller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKOjXho8dfE&eurl=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/07/watch-bill-clinton-says-_n_80231.html

[salin]

26. Thanks for those links

it helps to have a sense of what all the talk is about.

[11cents]

10. This debauch of hatred is making many women very very angry

Very. And not just HC supporters by any means.

[Emit]

13. Are you referring to my post?

Because that was not the intent. Quite the contrary. I'd like to raise the level of discussion here.

[11cents]

24. No.

Sadly, I could have put that remark in any of dozens of topics today; this one probably wasn't the most apt.

[Mz Pip]

14. I don't think it was staged

I think she had a genuine moment of emotion. That's hardly a bad thing. Running for president is an emotional experience.

However, when she said "This is personal" she went back to making this about her. It's not about her. It's about all of us.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Hoof Hearted]

15. Well then maybe Edwards shouldn't have attacked her for it right after he got done saying in the

same sentence that he wasn't going to say anything about it. The schmuck. Since she was just imitating him, after all.

[Emit]

20. Lol, I read his response and wish I could see a clip of it to get his tone.

The report (ABC) I read made it seem more vicious than he probably was -- using words like "pounced on the opportunity." Elizabeth apparently showed a great deal of compassion.

[Mutineer]

16. The men are tired and stressed too

Anyone seen any of them tear up lately?

[LibraLiz1973]

35. Are you fucking KIDDING me??

Wow, low blow. Really low blow.

[MiniMe]

18. Hell, John Boner cries while making speeches on the house floor

[Horse with no Name]

21. And he is soundly trounced for it here everytime it happens...n/t

[Emit]

48. True

As was Voinovich when he teared up on the Senate floor during the Bolton nomination.

edit typo

[Emit]

22. Frequently, too! n/t

[Uncle Joe]

25. I was thinking of Edward's moment during the debate as well.

I'm paraphrasing here, he stated that he wouldn't take pac money or have any lobbyists for corporations or foreign governments in an Edwards Administration, he said it was personal and he was committed to fighting for the average American against entrenched corrupted corporate power and if you took money from them, you couldn't fight against them.

He said if you believed just as he did, but only in an academic or philosophical manner and it wasn't personal, you wouldn't have the courage to go through with the fight. He cited his parents or maybe it was his grandparents working in the mills as the basis for his emotional commitment and I believe this was his finest moment during the New Hampshire debate.

I believe Hillary Clinton realized it was his finest moment as well, when she became emotional after that question about why she does it using the word personal as well, the corporate media played that scene simultaneously on all three networks at the very beginning of their broadcasts. I couldn't help but feel the whole thing was scripted.

[Ilsa]

28. I found it appealing, although I am not changing my vote from Edwards.

She was farned if she did and darned if she didn't. There are people out there that love to hate her and spread lies about her being unlikeable. Chris Matthews said she is a very engaging and likeable person.

[NoSheep]

30. I can see your point. In our house we discuss how all the candidates must be fearful of showing

their true feelings because the rovian machine is so adept at double speak and manipulation.
I'm glad you pointed this out. It really creeped me out when she did this.

[robbedvoter]

31. Soo...she tried to pull an Edwards, but you caught her? Your candidate did too

cuz Mr "oops" thinks a POTUS is not allowed to show emotion...Go figure :shrug:

[Emit]

42. Please explain this part of your post, if you will -- I don't follow

Your candidate did too
...
cuz Mr "oops" thinks a POTUS is not allowed to show emotion...Go figure

edited to add please and if you will

[rodeodance]

33. I watched it tonight--got a very tight throat myself. She is a strong woman.

[undercutter2006]

39. i support edwards

because he is the most anti-corporate of all the main candidates and doesn't take too much money from special interests

but all this sexist idiocy is making it really hard to not vote for hillary clinton just so people would be forced to get used to an idea of a woman in charge

[weeve]

40. This is exactly...

... the kind of clip you want circulating right after the other clip from the debates where she was strident and aggressive. Whether it's heartfelt or great acting, the end results were achieved. Savvy, is the word that comes to mind.

I haven't read many of these threads, but does anyone feel that the question itself was a plant/set-up (as unfortunately, that HAS happened before) ?

[scarletwoman]

44. That's not just incredibly offensive, it's fucking absurd.

You know, it's just possible that this was a completely unplanned, genuine encounter. These things actually happen in real life, in the world out there.

I am no Hillary Clinton supporter. In fact, I've been saying for months that if she won the nomination I would not vote for her in the general election. I detest her politics, but I do NOT detest her as a human being.

As a woman, I could absolutely *feel* where she was at in that moment. It was a moment of her genuine self leaking out -- just for a moment -- because her state of fatigue and stress had weakened the tight guard she's kept on herself.

She is not without a soul. She may have sold off most of it in exchange for power, but there's some left.

sw

[Emit]

50. I felt it, too, scarletwoman

And strangely, it was an endearing moment in a way for me. I got a wee bit of the same feeling when that guy in the NH debates asked her about the likability polling in NH -- the one comparing her to Obama -- when she paused and her voice softened and she said, "Well, that hurts my feelings." I think it really did hurt her feelings. I could imagine how I, myself, would've felt being asked that in front of millions of viewers and being expected to respond with composure and grace.

Anyway, I think the decision to talk about a personal connection may have been planned or encouraged, but her reaction in the moment seemed genuine.


edit typo

[Kajsa]

46. I believe it was real- she was dead tired,

the stress had worn her down and she was probably
sleep deprived. I felt this as I watched that clip.

I can cry at the drop of a hat when I'm in that state.
And I don't cry very often.

It's little wonder she became emotional.

She does love our country and hates what Bushco
has done to it.

[never_get_over_it]

47. Well for my two cents

I think she is exhausted, shocked at the results in Iowa and polls in NH, disappointed and that what we saw was probably the most authentic version of Hillary ever - where she actually acted like a real person male or female. One of my criticisms of her is that she for so long has put her finger in the air to see how the wind is blowing - following it that she has long since forgotten who the hell she really is and what the hell she really stands for. Not unlike her husband. She would be much better served if she got in touch with what she actually friggin believes and STAND FOR IT and not listen to political freaking advisers who have steered so many of these politicians down the prim rose path.

[Emit]

49. My SO just saw the clip for the first time

SO's reaction? "That's similar to what Edward's said... what he was talking about during the debate"

(And I never shared this post with my SO until after)

[fightindonkey]

54. The Same Media That Puts On All Repugs 24/7. Dems Should Rally Clinton, Even If She Isn't Their

choice for nominee. Enough is enough. The Clintons gave us legs after two Republican Administrations. People have to stop making it that the Clintons are somehow evil. This site has turned into Freeperville. You don't have to support Hillary for the nomination, but come on, the woman is something to be admired for the position she is in, and all that she continues to accomplish. She was the one who knew how to take care of the Right wing smear machine, while all the other Dems just took it.