The more Obama supporters try to justify his action in the "McClurkin Affair," the worse it looks.

[Tyler Durden]

And the worse Obama looks.

The word BLOVIATE is beginning to come to mind when it comes to his "inclusive big tent" rhetoric. You don't confront bigotry by coddling it with "inclusive" speeches that validate the opinion of the bigots.

The opinion of the Black Religious Fringe that discriminates against LGBT people is just plain WRONG, as IS the opinion of the Klan and the Aryan movements that target ALL people of color, Jews and Muslims.

Do the Obama supporters and Barack Obama REALLY want to be included in THAT big tent?

History will judge the war criminals, the greedy rich, and those tolerant of bigotry for political reasons harshly.

[matcom]

1. why are people so quick to point out the Klan and Aryan's in Obama posts?

:shrug:

:think:

[Tyler Durden]

3. A bigot is a bigot is a bigot.

History is a harsh judge, Matcom. I merely suggest that when bigotry finally is eliminated, all people who tolerated it will not look good in that light.

I still can't see why Obama won't "do the right thing," so to speak. He would have looked like a much bigger man for it if he had done it the moment this travesty started.

[matcom]

5. and your insertion of the KKK in an Obama post is an equal travesty

poor correlation IMHO. would you insert a Nazi reference if we had a Jewish candidate you didn't like or would that be taboo?

[Tyler Durden]

6. Tell me then: how do YOU justify his tolerance of a bigoted stance?

And I'm sorry if I'm a little hot on the question of bigots. I view it like being a little bit pregnant: there is no such thing.

Is it harsh to put all bigots (as I perceive them, of course)in the same category? Yes. Is it wrong to do so? I'm not convinced it is.

Is it worse to tolerate an act of bigotry be cause of ignorance and bad upbringing, or for the purpose of political support? I think you know what my answer would be.

I am beginning to see Obama's actions as the calculated response of a dedicated and ambitious political wonk. Tell me I'm wrong.

[Terran]

27. "a little hot"?

You're so hot that you've lost all sense of proportion. "Black religious fringe"? what exactly is that? and where do they actually get the chance to "discriminate" against LGBT people?? I'm sorry, Black people in general don't possess the power to discriminate against anybody in any real way.

And don't assume I'm a supporter of Obama; I'm supporting whoever gets the nomination. But your lumping him in with violent racist gangs is just the stupidest damn thing I've ever heard on DU, and I've been here a looooong time.

[Tyler Durden]

29. And still clouding issues I see.

This has come to the point where it has very little to do with the racial religious demographic that Obama was trying to pander to so as to boost his performance in Southern primaries.

If he had STOPPED this incident from occurring as he should have, there would be no issue.
If he had performed DAMAGE CONTROL after the incident as he should have, the issue would have less impact.

NOW he's stuck with it, and should he be the nominee, you can bet this will be a boulder to overcome in the election.

And by the way, your attempt to distract from the ISSUE sounds almost exactly like Otter's Speech to the Greek Council in "Animal House." Look it up if you don't remember it.

[Hutzpa]

33. Its his fault that an adult,

an individual that have a mind of their own speaking about issues pertaining to them is the responsibility of Obama, what a load of baloney.

[Terran]

42. I do have concerns about this.

Don't get me wrong on that. But you make a lot of questionable assumptions and statements in your post that I have to assume are part of your thinking on this matter, and unfortunately it makes me wonder if this isn't merely partisanship on your part. The way you keep picking on this subject smacks of mere political tactics, not an honest concern about what's going on in the man's head and heart.

I am concerned, very concerned, about religious people thinking that their faith can "cure" gay people. I'm gay, so yeah, I get it, and I'm not trying to cloud any issue here. But I do also consider the possibility that some of those people have genuinely held beliefs and good intentions and don't actually hate gay people. You see, I think you make a big leap of logic when you equate what McClurkin said with "bigotry", and then an even bigger leap when you compute Obama's failure to address the issue to your satisfaction as making him anti-gay. The world is not so black and white as that.

[Tyler Durden]

60. I no longer respect discriminatory or bigoted "genuinely held beliefs."

Being Gay is NOT EVIL. My friends dead from "Reagan's Plaque" were not evil. My CPO in the Navy, my dear friend Milagro, was not evil. My friends at the "Oar House" in Norfolk WERE NOT EVIL.

They were not, and those that are still with us, ARE NOT EVIL.
They DO NOT NEED CURING.
If they are Christians (as most were) Jesus loves them just the same and does not wish them to change.

If Barack Obama first tells me that he WILL NOT let this man spouting BIGOTRY in the name of Jesus to be Master of Ceremonies, I'll believe him; then when it happens anyway, Obama is a LIAR. When this same man is not REFUTED by Obama, who then says we just all have to RESPECT EACH OTHERS' (FUCKING) OPINIONS.....(my FUCKING COMMENT)then Obama has condoned BIGOTRY.

These items are not up for debate.

UNLESS he repudiates, I WILL NOT support him. I WILL NOT put his sign on my lawn. I WILL vote for him if he is the nominee and I can conscience it, of which I will have to decide when the time comes.

These items are not negotiable.

The LGBT community has shown me LOVE and ACCEPTANCE when I got NONE from ANYONE ELSE, INCLUDING my extended family. To betray that is despicable.

It was put much better by Edward Morgan Forster

"If I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country."
-Edward Morgan Forster
(member of the Cambridge "Apostles" and the Bloomsbury Group. Brilliant, homosexual, writer, author of "A Room With a View")

[Chovexani]

82. Black people don't possess the power to discriminate?

Tell that to some of the kids I took GED classes with at Harvey Milk School, thrown out of their homes for being queer. Fuck, tell that to my family, who nearly threw me out for being Pagan and who still don't know I'm queer because I'm afraid of being disowned.

Do we have institutional power to do harm? Fuck no, of course not. But black folks discriminate every day in our own fucking families, hurting our own LGBT children. And yes, the black religious fringe TD referred to is a very large part of it. A great deal of homophobia in the black community stems from the backlash against the distorted images of masculinity forced on black men in America for the last 400 years, and that black religious fringe is right in the middle of that shit--NOI and the rest of them.

You have no fucking idea, do you?

[Hutzpa]

23. Desperate people do desperate things

the paying masters are scared shitless, so find something, just anything to discredit our opponent, not what they say, what they are for but just something to screw up the democratic push for power.

Well done genius.

[Tyler Durden]

30. Why do you people LIKE being on the side of the bigots?

Anyone who doesn't decry this, AND the other discriminatory issues in this campaign from EVERY camp is unworthy of the title "Progressive" or "Liberal."

These are OUR CAUSES. We embraced them from before the Civil War.

[Hutzpa]

37. When people speak of unity,

it means exactly that, united should be seen as a big word, Democrats, Republicans, Independent, Gay rights activist, everyone united in force, I think you're picking the wrong fight, its like looking for a needle in haystack, there just is nothing there to see, lets move on, lets all regroup, we have a bigger fight in our hands and we keep playing into the GOPs hands based on what some of us see as defeat.

The important factor here is whether HILLARY, EDWARDS and OBAMA wins we have the best chance to move the country forward, release the strangle hold the NEO CONS have on all of (remember them) us, lets stay focus and stop shooting ourselves on the foot.

[Tyler Durden]

39. As I said down thread: I will hold my nose and vote for the nominee.

That unfortunately puts the stain of expediency on MY karma, which I will have to accept, that or abstain which would be the pure path.

Aren't you TIRED of taking the expedient road? I am.

[Bake]

80. "Nothing here to see ... let's move on"

Are you SERIOUS???? If you are, are you LISTENING TO YOURSELF?

A lot of people were/are offended by the McClurkin episode, and Obama has yet to address it. A lot of people in my age group were/are offended by his "baby boomers need to get over it" comment too.

I guess we're all just supposed to bow before the Mighty Obama and accept his inevitability.

Not me.

Bake

[Radical Activist]

56. Adding sexual orientation to the Illinois Human Rights Code

and marching in the Chicago pride parade makes someone a bigot? Wow. News to me.

[shadowknows69]

2. Has he addressed that at all?

An admission of the mistake would go a long way in my book, not sure about our LBGT community.

[Tyler Durden]

4. It would be a START.

What I don't understand are the few LGBT people HERE who are most rabidly in support of Obama's actions.

Stockholm Syndrome?

[bigscott]

7. i agree

but when I point out this is an issue for the GLBT community, many people on this board accuse me of being a "one issue" person and tell me to "get over it" because "Obama is really not like that" :wtf:

[Tyler Durden]

8. When you come up against a fanatic stance, prepare to be marginalized.

Obama has become a kind of religious cause to his supporters.

He won't apologize for the McClurkin Affair? "But he wants to INCLUDE EVERYONE." Inclusiveness is no excuse for tolerating bigotry.

He doesn't answer questions in his press conferences? "Read his PLATFORM! I've heard the same thing from Fundamentalists telling me to read the Bible.

His Health Insurance plan is just Health Insurance on steroids? "Well, HILARY HILARY HILARY!" I don't like what Hilary wants either.

He employs Lobbyists in high positions of his campaign, when he said he would not? "He's a STATE Lobbyist, not a FEDERAL Lobbyist!" Say that out loud. Sound Stupid. Right.

ALL OF OUR CANDIDATES HAVE WARTS, but I'm tired of Obama Partisans being his political "Compound W." It makes ALL of us look stupid. Let him come out and address his issues, and he will be a bigger and better candidate for it, but neither he nor his partisans recognize these issues, so the point is moot. The respond in turn with a "No, YOU are, or YOUR CANDIDATE is..."

Stupid.

[bigscott]

10. thanks Tyler

I thought I was just being overly sensitive. us gays are prone to that apparently :sarcasm:

[Tyler Durden]

12. If I may be blunt....

FUCK bigots and all those who TOLERATE them.

And frankly, that includes ALL of the candidates on both sides (with the possible exception of Kucinich). Obama has just made the colossal mistake of showing his ass on the subject: he's not any worse, he's just NOW playing it stupid. It may cost him votes, but it's far past time to stand up for what is RIGHT.

[MuseRider]

35. With the exception of Kucinich, not possible but real exception.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=62602&mesg_id=62602

[ellisonz]

17. Yes. They're just beating a dead horse.

[Tyler Durden]

18. I'm sure your eloquent dismissal of the rights of the LGBT community is appreciated.

I really become ashamed of being a straight person when I see this stuff.

What do I say to my friends in LGBT? How do I explain having just one more hate group association tacked on to me by default? I'm WHITE, MALE, 55, ATHEIST, now STRAIGHT becomes one of the new asshole groups.

Gee, thanks folks.

"You know, those COLOREDS/JEWBOYS/TOWELHEADS/CAMEL JOCKEYS are just beating a dead horse." You know something? It pains me that there are people on this board that for all practical intents and purposes are saying exactly this.

And all for the sake of political expedience. Karl Rove couldn't say it better.

[Terran]

43. Our rights?

Look, your heart is in the right place, but this whole thing has ZERO to do with our rights as gay people. I don't have a right to tell Donnie McClurkin what he can believe, and I don't have a right to tell Mr. Obama who he can associate with.

[shadowknows69]

45. Well a person who may be responsible for the whole country's rights

Has no business associating with those who would take rights away or worse get on a soapbox of self loathing portraying homosexuality as a curable disease. If Obama wants to hang out with the he man gay haters club maybe he shouldn't be running for the highest office in the land.

[Terran]

48. Again, you make assumptions

Self-loathing? Come on man, that's a cliche I haven't heard used with any seriousness in quite some time, at least not by other gay people. Maybe Donnie McClurkin is honestly happy in his apparent belief that Jesus Christ saved him from being something he thought he didn't want to be. Did it never occur to you that hate may not be the motivating factor in this particular instance?

"He man gay haters club"...lol, I haven't seen a pic of McClurkin, but somehow I doubt that's an appropriate description. Is Obama hanging out with any other big burly homophobes?

[Chovexani]

83. Donnie is a liar and a hypocrite and you really need to be quiet

Because you clearly have NFI what you're talking about.

Donnie is a cynical snake-oil salesman who doesn't believe half the shit he talks, he preaches what he does in order to stave off suspicion about who he really is. This MF gets up on stage preaching against the homosexual menace and then spends half the night blowing his male singers at the hotel. I am well familiar with the gospel circuit (my gay cousin sang backup for Hezekiah Walker, another gay bashing closet queen) and watching people fall over themselves to justify this man and his self-loathing (yeah, I fucking said it) shuck and jive bullshit is comical to me. It is hate, pure and simple, Donnie hates himself, just like anyone on the DL hates himself.

I don't think you're self-loathing, FWIW, I just think you're clueless.

[readmoreoften]

52. McClurkin said "Gays are killing our children" on national television.

If a white supremist country singer had said "Blacks are killing our children" on TNT and any Democratic candidate gave that man a job as an emcee, that candidate would be the scourge of the party. Even if it turned out that he was upset because he had a Black great-grandmother and was just a troubled soul.

[xchrom]

9. ok -- mostly i'm on your side in this -- i don't love the KKK

reference or the Aryan Nation one -- BUT even a tent has boundaries.

and the notion that you can use bigots -- threatening bigots at that -- to make some point about inclusiveness just fails.

the use of mccurkin and the four anti-gay gospel acts has a point to it -- and it's unattractive.

[Tyler Durden]

11. As I say, I'm a little hard on bigots.

I don't see it as unattractive. I call it what it is: toleration of bigoted stance for the sake of political expedience, and it's vile and disgusting.

Didn't a lot of Southern politicians tolerate sheet-wearing bigots for the sake of getting elected? Aren't certain politicians in certain Northwestern states a little too cozy with the White Supremacists, maybe because of their anti-government or income tax stance?

I'm sick of this shit. There is no such thing as being a little bigoted. Maybe we should just go back to calling black people "colored folks" like I've heard from some old timers; it's not so bad, is it?

Bullshit.

Let Barack Obama repudiate discrimination of any stripe completely and totally (something he wouldn't have to do if he had just not gotten involved with McClurkin in the first place) or be lumped in the same category as other bigots.

There is no middle ground here.

[AndyA]

13. I had an open mind about all the candidates once.

I have always been mostly for Edwards, but I was trying to keep an open mind about Hillary and Barack as well. But Barack's stunt with McClurkin was insulting to me, and sent a clear message: gay people are second rate citizens in Barack's mind, because he's going to allow someone to get up on stage with a captive audience and talk about how praying "cured him" of homosexuality!

Barack knew the guy's history, and allowed him the opportunity anyway, and has made little to no comment about it since.

I call Barack a bigot, and a hypocrite. And his actions indicate this is true.

No doubt Barack would condemn someone preaching of a cure for being black. What's the difference?

Hillary has done a few things I don't like, but she still has my support if she's the Dem candidate. I will not, however, vote for Barack Obama until he addresses this issue and takes steps to FIX IT. I'm tired of double standards, discrimination, and bigotry in America.

I've watched it under the Bush Regime for 7 years, and I will not vote to continue this policy, especially since Barack should know better. Bigotry is bigotry.

[Tyler Durden]

14. That's something that I have found incredible about the whole affair.

How could a man who claims the mantle of an African American and the heritage of King even stand the APPEARANCE of bigotry?

I see that as hypocrisy of a transcendent order: perhaps he WILL make a great "politician" after all. I do not consider that a complement, by the way.

[LostinVA]

15. Good OP, Ty

[Tyler Durden]

19. I'm sure getting tired of repeating it, LVA.

As a member of the largest accepted asshole group by association in the USA (White, Male, 55, Atheist, and Straight), I would take this tack even if I didn't believe as strongly as I do, simply because IT'S THE RIGHT FUCKING THING TO DO.

Why some don't "get it" is beyond me to the point of distraction.

[FredScuttle]

16. Well said

The "Audacity" of coddling and welcoming bigots into a campaign is what's intolerable, not those of us who speak up about it.

[Tyler Durden]

20. I don't see why anyone sees ANYTHING acceptable about it.

I've come to the conclusion in my dotage that if you have to live under NAZIS to get along, it's far past time to vote with your feet, or with a weapon.

I DO NOT CALL OBAMA OR HIS SUPPORTERS NAZIS HERE, SO UNTWIST YOUR UNDERWEAR. That being said, you can stop trying to justify his behavior.

RIGHT NOW.

We don't buy it, and that fact DOES NOT mean we give anyone else (Clinton et al) a "pass" on it.

[jackpan1260]

21. Ooohh.... history will judge me harshly. I am scared.

Obama, like all the candidates, has said and done things I totally disagree with.
He still has my vote, and obviously the votes of many primary voters.

[Tyler Durden]

31. I guess it takes some physical maturity to see the historical perspective a little better.

And why do you fly the Rainbow Flag? It's credo is Acceptance for ALL. Your avatar and your post contradict each other.

[OzarkDem]

22. If he gets the Dem nomination, it will be brought up

He's been getting kid glove treatment by the news media and GOP so far. Should he become the nominee that will change very quickly.

[smoogatz]

24. On the other hand, the other two front-runners voted for the IWR.

In fact, red-state Democrat Edwards co-sponsored it. So they enabled and are complicit in the deaths of over 3900 Americans so far, and at least 600,000 Iraqis. Both Clinton and Edwards also voted for the patriot act and the destruction of the 4th amendment it unconstitutionally permits. How will history judge them, I wonder?

[Tyler Durden]

26. And Obama voted for the "Patriot" Act....

Hello? Different subject, not relevant to this discussion.

[smoogatz]

32. He did?

That's funny, because he didn't take office until January, 2005. The Patriot act became law in October, 2001.

And it's really not a different subject. Your point was, if I remember correctly, that "History will judge the war criminals, the greedy rich, and those tolerant of bigotry for political reasons harshly." Those who enabled Bush's war for oil are also war criminals, are they not?

On edit: It's my belief that history will also take a dim view of those who allowed themselves to be stampeded into voting for the Patriot Act, when they should have been watching out for our civil liberties and protecting the constitution, as they were sworn to do. But maybe that's less important than Ronnie McClurkin, or whatever his name is.

[Tyler Durden]

34. He voted for the RENEWAL.

So Bigoted Acts support our civil liberties and protect the constitution?

It's not McClurkin: it is what he represents, and what Barack Obama has not repudiated.

Again, you're sidetracking. A question: Equal Rights for ALL, or are there exceptions? If your answer is Equal Rights for ALL, then you should be on my side.

[smoogatz]

36. I'm on your side.

But I also want you to be intellectually consistent. If Obama's a bigot because he tolerates bigotry, then Edwards and Clinton are war criminals because they enabled war crimes. Given the choice, I guess I'd have to vote for the bigot-by-extension over the war-criminals-by-extension.

The version of the Patriot Act renewal Obama voted for did much to restore 4th amendment protections. I don't know if those provisions made it into the final, reconciled draft. Here's his statement, if you're interested:

http://obama.senate.gov/press/051216-obama_statement_13/index.php

[Tyler Durden]

38. And I see your points....

ESPECIALLY:

"If Obama's a bigot because he tolerates bigotry, then Edwards and Clinton are war criminals because they enabled war crimes. Given the choice, I guess I'd have to vote for the bigot-by-extension over the war-criminals-by-extension."

I agree with the entire statement, except that I would say Obama is TOLERATING bigotry. I do not know his heart, but if he feels differently, he should be feeling shame.

As to the "Patriot" Act, that just gave Bush and his "signing Statements" the cover they needed to do whatever they wanted. If Obama (AND Clinton. AND Edwards) do not realize that, then they are hypocrites and worse, they are naive.

I realize this is not a perfect situation. I will hold my nose and vote for the nominee, but I believe my position is 100% valid.

[ananda]

25. My take.

In my opinion, many people do not want to
appear racist, while it's still ok in
their minds to be homophobic.

In Obama they have a candidate who makes
them feel superior because he's Black and
supporting him can make them able to say
they're not racist any more... just as a
lot of fundie Reeps felt good about touting
their support of Colin Powell and Condi Rice.

The terrible thing is that glbt's are the
targeted bete noir now... and the upshot won't
be anything nice. In fact, it's going to get
so ugly and crazee that corporations will continue
using it as a divide-and-conquer strategy....

[Tyler Durden]

28. I don't think you're far off....

And the witch hunt will be more destructive and evil for the fact that in most cases there is nothing outward to distinguish a LGBT person from anybody else.

The will become like the Fifth Column or the "Red Menace"...gotta protect the CHILDREN doncha know.

The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.

[Hutzpa]

40. Your analysis is one of biased

and not opinion, you think this have anything to do with corporations....well amean yes...but, people like yourself with self contrite views are the ones playing into corporates hands, leading everyone else into this divide and conquer.

Playing it as if , its the end of the world if Hillary don't get the vote, I never hear Hillary speaks about uniting, never heard Edwards talked about uniting, as for the Republicans well, no need, they believe in dirty politics, thats what gonna get them there.

Throwing mud, swiftboating etc. What about the issues that matters to the people, what about that? Instead everyone is more concern about their pockets, how much back money they're about to lose.

Your statement and I quote

"The terrible thing is that glbt's are the
targeted bete noir now... and the upshot won't
be anything nice. In fact, it's going to get
so ugly and crazee that corporations will continue
using it as a divide-and-conquer strategy...."

[readmoreoften]

51. Huh???

:crazy:

I need a translation.

[IndianaJones]

57. excellent analysis. nt.

[xchrom]

41. i have to recommend this -- without a doubt he USED donnie and the other

gospel groups with full knowledge of what they represent.

and he also needs to be confronted with this statement of his --

"Giving them a set of basic rights would allow them to experience their relationship and live their lives in a way that doesn't cause discrimination," Obama said. "I think it is the right balance to strike in this society."
Sources: Chicago Daily Tribune, National Gay and Lesbian Task Force


my life causes discrimination? -- what is he talking about exactly?

[FredScuttle]

49. Don't forget, his campaign released a memo after the concert

that stated that "DONNIE DOES NOT WANT TO CHANGE GAYS WHO ARE HAPPY IN THEIR LIVES"

Thanks for clearing that up, Barack. :eyes:

[IndianaJones]

44. Obama himself thinks that he may be on the wrong side of history with his stance on gay rights. nt.

[blogslut]

46. Who's justifying?

It was a mistake. A bad one. It won't happen again.

[FredScuttle]

47. You just answered your own question

A "mistake" is getting the Prime Minister of Pakistan's name wrong. What Obama did was hire an "ex-gay" clown to headlline his campaign event and handed this bigot a microphone and a stage to spew homophobic filth to a receptive audience of religious bigots.

[blogslut]

50. Yes

He failed to vet an entertainer who had a despicable agenda. One time. He has not booked him since. He has not booked anyone like that since.

I do not agree with Senator Obama's compartmentalizing of marriage separate from civil union but the stance is virtually the same as was John Kerry's in 2004. I am hoping he changes that stance. But, to paint him as anti-GLTB, based on one singer booked on a campaign tour, is to me, disingenuous.

[FredScuttle]

53. What's disingenuous is parading around as some kind of "progressive" and then welcoming a bigot

into the campaign.

Obama didn't "fail to vet an entertainer". He put three notoriously anti-gay gospel acts on the bill for his campaign event in South Carolina (a state, funnily enough, where he was trailing Clinton among black voters) to draw the old reliable Christian bigot crowd. When numerous LGBT groups contacted him to protest, he turned a deaf ear to them all. "Fail to vet...", don't make me laugh

[blogslut]

55. He hired gospel singers

Isn't that what McClurkin is?

As for pre-rally protestation, you're going to have to provide me with evidence that he "turned a deaf ear". I know full well several GLBT publications wanted an interview with him and he ended up only speaking to The Advocate. I would like to know more about these groups that approached his campaign before McClurkin's appearance. What did he say to them exactly?

[FredScuttle]

59. McClurkin is a gospel singer

He's also an "ex-gay" clown who issued such lovely statements as:
"The gloves are off and if there's going to be a war, there's going to be a war. But it will be a war with a purpose? I'm not in the mood to play with those who are trying to kill our children"
"Homosexuality is a curse"
"Gays can be cured"
"There are countless people who are discontent in this lifestyle and want to be freed from it. They were thrust into homosexuality by neglect, abuse and molestation"

This clown isn't any garden variety singer....he's a pastor who's a huge draw in the gospel world, particularly to anti-gay bigots who wrap up their homophobia in the cloak of Scripture.

As for the warnings Obama received before the concert, will the Human Rights Campaign suffice?

http://www.americablog.com/2007/10/human-rights-campaign-issues-ultimatum.html

[blogslut]

65. So, it doesn't matter that Obama himself makes it clear

that he did not know the extent of McClurkin's homphobic message?

The Advocate Q: "How did this happen? Was Mr. McClurkin vetted?"

Obama A: "Obviously, not vetted to the extent that people were aware of his attitudes with respect to gay and lesbians, LGBT issues -- at least not vetted as well as I would have liked to see.

Having said that, we viewed this simply as an opportunity to have a gospel concert as part of our overall outreach, and since he was singing at a concert along with a number of other artists, as opposed to being a spokesperson for us, probably it didn’t undergo the same kind of vet that someone who was serving as a surrogate for me might have."

It doesn't matter to you that he goes on to say that he speaks in churches and disagrees with the religious homophobia present in those churches? It doesn't matter to you that he's trying to get disparate groups to talk to each other? It doesn't matter that on the same, infamous bill he booked an out, Gay minister to balance the presence of McClurkin?

How long will you punish him for this? Does none of the rest of his support for GLTB mean anything?

[FredScuttle]

73. What complete and utter bullshit

Obama was told, directly over the phone, by the director of the Human Rights Campaign, that he was hiring a well-known homophobe and "ex-gay" clown and that this decision would be insulting to the LGBT community:

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obama-pressured-on-gay-cure-preacher-2007-10-24.html

And here's another thing...if McClosetCase wasn't "vetted to the extent that people were aware of his attitudes with respect to gay and lesbians, LGBT issues...", then why did Obama release this statement 4 days before the concert?

“I strongly believe that African Americans and the (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered - LGBT) community must stand together in the fight for equal rights. And so I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin’s views and will continue to fight for these rights as president of the United States to ensure that America is a country that spreads tolerance instead of division,”

Sounds like Obama was well aware of Pastor Donnie's disgusting homophobia and still put him on stage. Like I said, gutless bullshit and pandering to bigots. :puke:

Does it matter to you that, for all the high and mighty things Obama professes to do for the LGBT community, than when push came to shove in a key primary state where he was trailing Clinton among black voters, he put up an "ex-gay" bigot to clown it up for him to the delight of a crowd full of like-minded religious bigots? That gives you no reason for concern that a so-called "progressive" candidate welcomed a bigot to his campaign and gave him a microphone and a stage to spew homophobic filth? Oh, and that "gay minister" you referenced? Do you mean the WHITE gay minister who opened the concert (when the arena was a quarter full) and then was shuffled off, never to return to counter-balance the anti-gay hatred that came from Pastor Donnie in the headlining set? That gay minister?

Obama should apologize...immediately.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

61. You mean like this guy?

[FredScuttle]

74. You must be referring to Pastor Donnie's appearance at the DNC Convention in 1992

That would be, you know, long before his rebirth as an "ex-gay" clown bigot who sang for * at the 2004 GOP convention.
Just making sure we have the timeframe clear and you're not taking a cheap shot at President Clinton in an attempt to defend Obama for welcoming a bigot.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

76. No, I'm referring to Don't Ask, DOMA.

Let's face it. Clinton's done far more harm to homosexuals than some dumb gospel singer.

[cooolandrew]

54. I don't believe Barack is bigotted I believe he has to get elected ...

...The congress and nation is so divided his best bet fro a productive time in office is to stop further entrenching each side to get things done once in office.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

58. Who's trying to justify it?

:shrug:

[Tyler Durden]

62. Just read down the thread, BHN!

He'll never do it again, he just wanted to, well he may have.......

SCREW that nonsense. Salute with the Nazis, count yourself a fascist. I feel that strongly about it. There have been many times when I had more LGBT friends than straight ones. I won't betray ONE of them.


"If I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country."

-- Edward Morgan Forster

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

64. You're not helping your argument with Godwin's law.

Or pretending people are justifying it when they're not.

The fact of the matter is, all three candidates have identical policies when it comes to gay rights, they're all equally homophobic. And as such, this whole argument is semantic at best and hypocritical at worst.

So you'll have to look at something else when picking a candidate.

It's the war, stupid.

[Tyler Durden]

69. I never said they WEREN'T.

I said saying Obama was not was hypocracy. Whole point of the argument.

And you're right. It's the War. That's why it should be Kucinich or Edwards.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

75. Edwards voted for the war.

Kucinich said to vote for Obama.

[Alexander]

63. No one. The OP is just whining because Obama's going to win NH.

[Tyler Durden]

70. NO, I'm countering idiots who claim Obama is NOT behaving like a bigot.

Or a homophobe.

You want to be the NEXT ignore? I collected one on this thread and 2 on another. I'm a grown man of 55, a Democratic Socialist, and except for Kucinich and maybe Edwards I could care less who gets nominated: they're equally useless to me...

Just don't piss down MY back and tell me it's raining. How old are you anyway with your idiot "WAAAHMBULANCE"? The maturity level of this place is headed to absolute zero.

[Kingshakabobo]

84. How'd THAT prediction work out for ya?

:rofl:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

66. "Black Religious Fringe"

Funny, I figured only people who were in the Klan or Aryan Nations would think such a thing existed. Wonder what that says about you?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

67. I can't believe a racist post like this got 18 rec's.

If you think it's not: Can you imagine the OP using Nazis as an example if Obama were a Jew?

[FredScuttle]

72. Or, can you imagine the OP using an "ex-gay" bigot like Donnie McClurkin if Obama was gay

Er, wait a minute....

[NorthernSpy]

68. who did the Gospel singers lynch?

The KKK and the Aryan Nations are/were terrorist groups. Where in the world did you get the idea to compare such criminal organizations to churches and Gospel singers?


:wtf:


Too crazy for words.

[Bright Eyes]

71. When Hillary Clinton's supporters try to justify her IWR vote,

Kyl/Lieberman vote, keeping troops in Iraq, saber rattling with Iran etc, the worse Hillary Clinton looks.

Edited to include invoking Al-Qaeda against Obama. Classy move, Senator.

[Disturbed]

78. Tyler is 100% correct.

Obama was well aware of Pastor Donnie's disgusting homophobia but Obama's political ambitions were more important than principles.

[Bright Eyes]

79. What Obama did was a bad move. I won't defend him on that.

But that doesn't mean he's homophobic(not directed at you, but I've seen some post here at DU claiming he was, based on this).

[Tyler Durden]

81. To use a phrase I hate....

As he relates to the homophobes, Obama takes the role of "The Good German."

[theboss]

77. Do 1 in 10 gay people even know what the McClurkin Affair is?

My prediction: If Obama wins the nomination, he wins 85 percent of the "gay" vote and is the most LGBT friendly president in American history.

[Le Taz Hot]

85. Look, Tyler, I'm on your side on this but

ENOUGH ALREADY, DUDE! :crazy: