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Am I the only one who is extremely wary and suspicious of anyone who wants to be a leader?

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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:25 PM
Original message
Am I the only one who is extremely wary and suspicious of anyone who wants to be a leader?
I have been quietly observing the primaries (okay, not quietly..I've made a couple of inane comments here and there :P) and I'm sort of disconcerted by how easy other people find it to follow leaders.

This is not an anti-Obama thread. It is not an anti-Hillary thread. It is not an anti-Edwards thread. I really have no preference for any of them. And that's sort of my point. I can understand how somebody can mildly prefer one candidate over another...especially if they share their policies on issues that matter to you.

What I don't get is how anybody could let their emotions take over their reasoning so much that they feel personally threatened when someone disses their candidate. I've always been anti-authoritarian and extremely cynical of people who seek power. In my view, it is likely that all the candidates running for president really don't care about you and I as much as they care about power, control, money and priveledge. It's not that they don't care at ALL about us, but it is really secondary to their ambitions and their egos. It's the way it's always been with leaders throught-out history.

I HATE feeling like livestock. I HATE feeling like some sort of sheep. I HATE that people will fight and argue over people who don't have a clue who the fuck you are, and could really give a shit about you. I HATE that almost every Charismatic leader and cult leader has a huge group of people who will follow them to the grave if they have to. I HATE that people have no awareness of how they are being used by the rich and powerful. I HATE that people are so easy to manipulate and are willing to give their power as readily as their leaders are willing to take it.

I don't know how this post is going to be taken. I don't know if I'm going to be flamed or not.

But I'm still going to ask you to be more cynical. And not just with the presidential candidates or primary candidates. I'm asking you to be more cynical about your church leaders, your business leaders, you spiritual leaders, and your political leaders.

And remember this: I'll bet you that any random DUer, even one who doesn't support your candidate, would probably be 100 times as likely to help you out of a bind than any one of your supposed leaders. And if anyone ever calls you a sycophant or a sheep, maybe you should listen to what they have to say.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nope, none of these folks can be taken at his or her word. nt
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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. "I thought we were an autonomous collective!"
"Help, I'm being oppressed!"
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Haha...best scene.
"Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree with you so much. No flames from me. n/t
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. Of course, they're politicians.
These are people who will smile and shake your hand as they send your boy off to die for a few barrels of oil.

It's always been that way, it's always been about the least of many evils.
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yeah, no doubt.
It's bloody depressing.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I find it, ironically, encouraging.
Once you know the score, it's easier to move forward.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'll take working WITH us, tyvm.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. So will I.
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. It disturbs me. We shouldn't have leaders.
Edited on Tue Jan-08-08 01:36 PM by Touchdown
The USA is a Constitutional Representative Democracy. We don't have leaders.

Dictatorships, Oligarchies, Plutocracies, Feudalist Societies, Monarchies, Single Party Nation-States. They all have leaders.

We have public servants, representatives, or elected officials. We Americans do not have leaders

And it pisses me off to no end that some of our servants in Washington forget that, and even use the terminology.

"Leadership" language makes my skin crawl.:scared:
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. The theatre of the absurd...
The Theater of the Absurd
<2008 presidential election>
by A K Gupta
www.zmag.org, December 8, 2007
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Political/TheaterAbsurd_2008election.html

The presidential race is about many things: money, branding, celebrity, the media and theatrics. The one thing it's not about is politics.
Going into 2008, there are six major issues confronting the United States: the Iraq War and the "war on terror," global warming, healthcare, immigration, the deteriorating economy, and the expanding police state. Not one of them will be substantively addressed during the next year of presidential campaigning.
There will be a lot of screeching about immigration and terrorism when the general election gets underway and the Republicans play the fear and terror cards, but no intelligent discussion.
Don't look to the mainstream media for this. It will obsessively deconstruct the semiotics of hairdos and outfits, facial expressions and body language, but will skimp on discussing real policies that might address the numerous crises.
It's a theater of the absurd. Even as political issues increasingly become a question of life and death, the national stage-managed debate shrinks from them equally fast.
Look at the presidential campaign, which has turned into a two-year-long death march that began after the November 2006 elections. First was speculation over who would run. Then the contest was to secure high-profile consultants, pollsters, campaign managers, spokespeople, and bloggers, followed by jockeying for celebrity endorsements - Oprah for Obama, Chuck Norris for Mike Huckabee, the Osmonds for Mitt Romney, Bonnie Raitt for John Edwards and about half of Hollywood for Clinton.
The most ludicrous stage, a media creation, was the "money primary:" the race to connect with wealthy donors to generate the heftiest quarterly fundraising totals. In this second Gilded Age of America, a candidate must have the golden seal of the moneyed elite to be considered "serious."
Thus before voters cast a single ballot in any primary, the presidential field has been winnowed to those who could pass these hurdles. The serious Democratic candidates, as the mainstream media define it, are Clinton, Edwards and Obama.
There is a not dime's worth of difference between them. None promise a full withdrawal from Iraq by 2013. None endorse single-payer healthcare, the only real solution. All three favor unproven and corruption-prone "cap-and-trade" mechanisms to combat global warming, rather than strictly regulating pollutants at the source. All are largely quiet on immigration, trying to quadrangulate between corporate need for cheap labor, a populist storm of jingoism and the power of the Hispanic vote.
On the Republican side, the field is more open, but all the candidates are lunatics. Almost without exception they compete to show who hates immigrants the most, who will ban abortion the fastest, who will bomb Iran the fiercest, who will waterboard the most terrorists and who will stay the course in Iraq the longest.
----------------------------------------------------------
Politics are only for damaging an opponent's brand identity. Clinton's adversaries seized on her wavering response over whether she supported driver's licenses for illegal immigrants to remind voters she has no beliefs other than what the latest polls or her biggest donors tell her. Not that the other Democrats, except perhaps Kucinich, have a coherent plan beyond cobbling together buzzwords like "enforcement" "secure borders," "guest workers" and "path to citizenship."
Edwards has turned the head of many progressive because he actually talks policy, but he's starring in a well-known role. Lacking the party machine backing Clinton, and the media hagiography illuminating Obama, Edwards packages himself as an issues man, which is the role Jerry Brown filled in the 1992 race and Howard Dean in 2004.
Among Democrats, talking politics means having to address how corporations and the upper class - the ones who fund presidential campaigns -plunder the government. In one television ad, Edwards says, "We don't have universal health care because of drug companies, insurance companies and their lobbyists in Washington, D.C." In another, he states, "Do you really believe if we replace a crowd of corporate Republicans with a crowd of corporate Democrats that anything meaningful is going to change?"

Those are strong words, but if Edwards somehow does manage to get the nomination - mainly because the party bosses quake at the thought of either a woman or Black man heading up the ticket - he will start singing the virtues of the free market. So far, issues candidates have not been nominated in the post-Watergate era. They can contend because they generate a groundswell of support, but eventually they fade as they are unable to shake enough money from the corporate tree to buy huge blocks of television advertising needed to compete.__So most candidates choose to avoid politics and concentrate on branding to create a product that fulfills emotional needs of a public that looks to shopping as the palliative for any social, emotional or spiritual ill. (Political branding is also bolstered by Hollywood and educational narratives that reduce history to the deeds of great individuals.)

A.K. Gupta is an editor of The Indypendent, a biweekly newspaper based in New York City. He is currently writing a book on the history of the Iraq War to be published by Haymarket Press. He can be reached at ak_indypendent@yahoo.c
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Interesting article...I guess I'm not the only one who thinks that everyone running is full of shit.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I've been sucked in so many times....
I figure one more won't hurt. I guess I like a little fantasy with my reality.
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conspirator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. We live in an artificial society based on deep pyramid hierarchies
where the person on the top doesnt give a fuck, and doesnt even know the people on the bottom. But his decisions can kill or hurt thousands of them. Until we figure out how to live again in tribes rather than cities that's how it is.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm wary and suspicious of puppets who don't want to be a leader...
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. Imagine how the actual livestock feels
Well, we probably bred that emotion out of them. So, really, I'd say consider yourself lucky.
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
16. This has always bothered me. Who in their right mind would
Edited on Tue Jan-08-08 01:50 PM by spenbax
want to step into the pile of shit that the Bush administration has created for a job that pays half a million a year compared to just about any CEO job that pays millions a year. It's a power trip; plain and simple. I can truthfully say that I have NEVER wanted power over any soul, and when I was working I was a supervisor and the worst part of the job was telling people what to do when they knew damn good and well what to do. It was always disappointing that I had to order them to do their job. People do need people to tell them what to do, but I hated that part. Still, I worry about people who relish ordering people around at their will.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. No, not by a long shot
Sometimes I think our representatives should be determined by the same system that we use to pick juries.

You get a letter in the mail... "Aw, shit, I'm a Congressman next year!"

Randomly pick like 20 people from a congressional district, discard the criminals and those with serious mental or physical illnesses, and the remainder draws straws.

After the term is up, the people vote: keep'em, or start a new pool.
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Hmmm....I wonder how that would work out......
It's an interesting idea anyhow. I always figured that power NEEDS to be shared among several people. Like, for example, taking out the position of president or having several presidents. And a "draft for congress" is an interesting idea. There NEEDS to be access to civil positions by people who aren't necessarily rich or super charismatic. Divide the power, and make it more accessible.

Alas, who can change human nature?
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