When people hit the ballot box...they changed their minds...

[cynatnite]

I think that's what happened tonight for a lot of people. They got to their ballot box and voted their conscience. The pollsters got it wrong. It's happened before and probably will again. Now, the whole race is up for grabs and there isn't a clear winner. I suspect we won't know until early Feb who the presumptive nominee is and even then...there is room for doubt after what happened tonight. We may not know the nominee for some months afterwards.

It's a shocker and this is a good thing, IMO. It's a race that's still undecided and that's good for the American people. They will decide who they want. Personally, I think we'll get a Dem in the WH and no matter who it is I will support that Dem as avidly as I support my own candidate of choice.

Yes, that's Hillary and if she should lose, I'll gladly support, cheer and work toward putting a Dem in the White House with no regret.

Night All!

[Raine]

1. Some change their minds but

I think a large percentage of them were lying when they were asked beforehand.

Edit: spelling

[cynatnite]

3. Why would they lie? n/t

[Raine]

28. "Bradley Effect"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect

I hope that ia not what it was because I thought we had moved way beyond this but I can't help but wonder.

[Bitwit1234]

27. You know what did it....CNN showed it all afternoon

Older people were coming OUT in droves. I tell you and they don't believe it, they don't like Obama flaming Ted Kennedy, BECAUSE Ted Kennedy works for ALL the people young and old. And the young people who can be swayed so easy when they see a rock star type, had better learn right now, you can like a person and think he is a good guy, like they all like Obama. But when it comes to running the country, doing for everybody and knowing what you are doing, people who have lived and know what is going on in this world are going to pick the best candidate. And right now, Obama is not showing he knows what he is doing. I don't care how much people have grown to hate Hillary because of the constant spreading of that hate by the republican press, she IS a better candidate.

There are now 48 states to go..It is hard to tell who will be the winner, but that person can not be the rock start type. And if Obama is going to win he should show substance, not just go out on a stage and jump up and down to impress the doodle boppers.

[donheld]

2. Or there was fraud

Did that happen in 2000 and 2004? if then why not now?

[cynatnite]

4. Why would it happen on the dem side of the first primary?

there are still 48 states left to go. Seems to me if Obama or Edwards had won...we would't be seeing all these folks crying 'foul'.

[dailykoff]

5. Hugely important, and easily rigged.

Don't forget Junior's amazing primary upset there in 2000.

[cynatnite]

6. What does that have to do with tonight?

:shrug: I'm confused. There are all these claims, but no reasonable explanation or facts. All anyone has is pointing to elections that she wasn't even a part of.

[dailykoff]

7. We're talking about tonight. (n/t)

[cynatnite]

8. There have been claims without evidence...

I just think it's presumptuous and it sounds like some are crying 'foul' because a candidate they didn't like won.

[dailykoff]

9. The evidence is a huge and inexplicable spread

between the internal and entrance polls and the final vote tallies.

[cynatnite]

10. The exit polls have agreed with the end result...

from what they've said on TV. Women gave Hillary the win.

[dailykoff]

12. Network exit polls are adjusted to reflect final vote tallies.

That's why I didn't include them before.

[cynatnite]

13. This was before the final tallies...

right after they called it for Hillary.

[dailykoff]

15. They adjust them as the results come in.

They aren't particularly reliable IMHO, particularly on CNN.

[cynatnite]

16. Well, this was on MSNBC...

Norah O'Donnell was reporting on exit polling.

Either way, there is no evidence to support the claim that the Dem side of the first primary was fixed.

[cynatnite]

18. Do you have any idea how tin foil that is?

It would take the pollsters, statisticians, those running the elections, those in charge of the voting machines, networks, newspapers and more to conspire for Hillary Clinton to win one primary on the democratic side.

That's a hell of a lot of people.

[dailykoff]

21. SOP.

Stick around, you'll see.

[cynatnite]

23. Okay...gotcha n/t

[avrdream]

11. CNN exit polls said she had won - we got that news all the way down here

in Australia. That was at least 2 hours before the AP called it for her.

[dailykoff]

14. That's why I didn't mention exit polls

mainly because they're concocted by the networks.

[Maven]

26. Right, the networks

which were conspiring with Diebold in the "coverup"

Gotcha :eyes:

[donheld]

19. Why would it not happen on the dem side first primary

You think they only do a select few? They mean business.

[cynatnite]

22. Why?

What's the rationalization? Why risk an election, her status as a senator and everything else by cheating in one primary?

Who is 'they'? Be specific.

[donheld]

25. The same ones who rigged the 2000, 2002, and 2004 elections

As to why it's about control. Do you really think they are about to relinquish what they've worked to gain. They've (Bush, Rove, Neo-cons, AEI etc.) worked very hard the last 7 years they aren't going to let it all go come next January.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

17. The discrepancy between the vote and the polls is very disturbing,

You may spin it so that you get a warm and fuzzy from it... I do not get that feeling at all.

[cynatnite]

20. Those who are crying foul can't even rationalize it...

nor is there evidence to back up the claim that a primary was fixed. Just seems to me that if Obama or Edwards had won...we wouldn't hear one word about rigging a primary.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

24. However you want to frame it, but closing your eyes doesn't negate the facts

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2637736&mesg_id=2637780