I Respect the Hell out of Edwards, but My Reynolds Wrap Remains in the Kitchen Where It Belongs

[CorpGovActivist]

You win some; you lose some.

Am I anguished that Edwards didn't fare better in NH? Yup.

Am I willing to review any tangible, credible evidence that emerges to suggest chicanery, tomfoolery, shenanigans, hijinks, skullduggery, or early April Fooling? Uh-huh.

Did I think it was a little fishy that Edwards' percentage never budged from 17% all night? Yeah, having crunched stats for a long, long time, that raised both eyebrows.

Did I do a slow burn that MSNBC's graphic for the GOP showed the top three most of the night, while their graphic for the Dems most of the night showed only the top two? Yes, that raised my temperature some.

Am I hopelessly naive about the reality of election fraud? Oh, no, I've seen it up close and personal. I spent a month of my life dealing with it, having to make the difficult decision to http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=230630">overrule my good friend (who was trying to be a good guy and strike a feel-good compromise by proposing that both candidates share the office). Not content to see a future Council plagued by a similar problem (or a future Parliamentarian plagued by ceaseless phone calls, visits, and - yes - bribes), I ensured that http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=158856">we re-wrote the rules to close the loophole.

The point is, surprising shifts happen. Sometimes those shifts are organic and natural. Sometimes they're synthetic and saccharine.

But you have to carefully and soberly weigh the facts.

Reynolds Wrap is for leftovers. Yankees ballcaps are for hats.

My Reynolds Wrap is staying in the kitchen, where it belongs.

If there was fraud, I have confidence that Senator Edwards' team will ferret it out.

- Dave

[Der Blaue Engel]

1. Well there's your problem: Reynolds Wrap isn't made out of tin

But I thought it was the Obama voters crying foul. I must have gotten the Glad Wrap mixed up with the tinfoil again.

[CorpGovActivist]

2. I'm Not Allowed Near the Glad Wrap...

:rofl:

Really, I'm not.

That stuff is the Devil's web.

- Dave

[mother earth]

3. As an Edwards supporter, I'll repeat he never expected a win

in NH, and I will repeat THIS is a 3-way race to the end. Not a one of these people are going to drop out. Wake up and smell the coffee, Edwards is the only one that translates into a dem victory. The repub machine will tear up Clinton & Obama. I respect all the candidates, but I believe in Edwards, he can't be bought & he WON'T be defeated.

[CorpGovActivist]

4. Amen!!!

I agree 100% with everything you wrote.

- Dave

[shadowknows69]

7. Hear hear

It was no real surprise that Clinton took this one. New Hampshire is her people. Nearly New York, fairly affluent and conservative. If Edwards takes South Carolina he will be a force to be reckoned with and I doubt even the MSM will be able to ignore him then.

[CorpGovActivist]

17. From Your Lips... n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

12. ...

:thumbsup:

[helderheid]

23. Amen

[Hekate]

37. From your lips to the Lady's ears. I would be ecstatic if our first 3 races went one to each.

:hi:

Hekate

[CorpGovActivist]

42. Good Meme!

The voices in my head can barbershop quartet to it!

:rofl:

; )

- Dave

[hack89]

47. Why won't it also tear up Edwards?

what makes him so invulnerable?

[CTyankee]

48. That's why I'm hangin' in there with John! n/t

[defendandprotect]

64. I'll be doing my best to continue to support him --- meanwhile,

it seems that MSM succeeded in totally discouraging many who support him ---
in one fell swoop --- they seem to have encouraged Edwards' voters to move on!!!

[Virginia Dare]

5. Save the tinfoil for November, good move Dave..

I'm not counting Edwards out yet, there's still hope!

[CorpGovActivist]

6. Yup, Edwards Should Fare Well in NV and SC...

... and would've done very well in Michigan, too, methinks.

My hope is intact, and my tin foil is secure.

- Dave

[lame54]

8. Here's an ad i was asked to make about...

voter fraud and electronic voting - tell me what you think
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MxF4y9tSG08

[CorpGovActivist]

10. Nice! Harks back...

... to some of the best agitprop, and is within the attention span of most Americans.

I liked!

- Dave

[defendandprotect]

65. Excellent !!

[radfringe]

9. WELL, I still say rocks are the solution...

you get a long table, put up boxes with each candidates name on it. each voter is given a rock (all rocks are of standard size/weight).

voter goes to the table an drops a rock into the candidates box.

after all the rocks are dropped, boxes are weighed - the one that weighs the most wins. this is called the WEIGHT OF THE VOTE.

next - the winner's rocks are put into storage, if at any time during his/her tenure the public becomes disgusted with the official, the storage room is opened and you can go get your rock back and throw it at the official.

the hell with impeachment - bring back stoning... :rofl:

tonight when I get home, I will take my Red Sox hat, wrap it in saran wrap, followed by a layer of aluminum foil - if that doesn't keep out the radio waves - nothing will ;)

[CorpGovActivist]

11. Don't Ever Speak to Me Again...

... be still my batting cage arm!

A RED SOX FAN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Say it ain't so.

- Dave

[radfringe]

14. I'm originally from Massachusetts

someone gave it to me a couple of years ago... I mentioned it because of you mentioned the Yankees... knew it would raise your blood pressure a bit..

I don't follow football, so yankee or red sox...phhhttt... ;) :rofl:

[CorpGovActivist]

16. Let Me Get This - Er, Straight ...

... your mother raised a Red Sox fan?!?!?!?!?

Where did she go wrong?!?

Worse, she raised a rainbow flag gal who doesn't know football from baseball?!?!

Did she make your formula with Boston Harbor water?

:rofl:

- Dave

[radfringe]

21. ACTUALLY

she raised a YANKEES fan.. she's originally from New York

enny who - I don't follow sports, too many yahoos out there trying to be the big hotdog. YAWNnnnnnnn

lived on the other side of the state - where we still pronounced our "r's".

as far as formula goes... it was mixed with grappa... (am 1/2 italian.. other half is german.. WOP-sided kraut..)

[CorpGovActivist]

24. But...

... you *kept* a Red Sox hat in your house?

My in-laws (well, they would be, if my partner and I could get married) put a VHS tape of the Red Sox come-from-behind victory in my never-before-used entertainment system in the trunk of my vehicle. When I finally got around to using it, I was puzzled to find the tape. I thought maybe it was an instruction video for the darn thing, so I pushed play.

:mad:

"lived on the other side of the state - where we still pronounced our 'r's'."

Ever seen the poster that depicts a Bostonian's view of the universe?

:rofl:

The area (or "area-er," to add the r where it doesn't belong) where you grew up is out near the periphery of the poster.

- Dave

P.S. Remind me not to make you angry.

[radfringe]

25. Red Sox hat in house

I gave it to the puppy for a chew toy... not much left to it

Bostonian's view of the universe: once you are west of 495 - there be dragons..

grew up in Pittsfield...family moved to greenfield when I was 16, then northampton - after that I moved around alot before settling in Orange for about 16 years. Now I'm in PA (10 years) - but we are looking to possibly move to northern CA or Canada in a couple of years

[CorpGovActivist]

26. I'm Calling PETA!

Poor puppy!

"Bostonian's view of the universe: once you are west of 495 - there be dragons.."

*snicker*

So, yeah, you know.

"Now I'm in PA (10 years) - but we are looking to possibly move to northern CA or Canada in a couple of years"

Where in CA and CA?

- Dave

[radfringe]

27. near

Humbolt in California.. Joy has some cousins living there

or somewheres in the Vancover area

[CorpGovActivist]

28. Not Familiar...

... with Humbolt.

Vancouver: NICE!!!

- Dave

[radfringe]

35. arcada..? .redwoods...

about an hour or so from oregon border

[CorpGovActivist]

43. I've Seen Pictures...

... but haven't made it there in my wanderings, yet.

My partner likes CA ... I have a thing about quakes.

- Dave

[kineneb]

72. Arcata

you would be several counties north-west of me

Humboldt Co. is nice if you don't mind fog most of the year. I prefer to be inland farther, in the coast foothills, where we actually get four seasons.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. That's because you, according to your own narrative, didn't do drugs in college.

If you had been a pothead, you certainly would be familiar with Humboldt. :hippie:

[CorpGovActivist]

44. Huh?

What were we talking about?

:rofl:

- Dave

[conscious evolution]

46. LOL!!!

Americas finest!!

[Buttercup McToots]

13. The most important statement in this thread is...

John Edwards can not be bought!
HRC can be...and my fear is that OB could be bullied
or fooled by the status quo, due to
inexperience, into doing what
they want him to....
Scares me...
I just keep focusing on Edwards
and sending him what pocket money
I have.

[CorpGovActivist]

15. Good on Ye!

Well said!

- Dave

[judaspriestess]

18. did I miss something from this morning?

who's crying foul? John Edwards knows he's the dark horse in this race. I don't think he believed he was going to win New Hampshire......

2 down 48 to go baby!!!

[CorpGovActivist]

19. In the Wee Hours...

... there were a few Edwards supporters joining in on the fraud meme.

- Dave

[Two Americas]

53. "fraud meme"

A few comments, if I may Dave.

- I didn't see any Edwards supporter claim that Edwards was a victim in this. Did you?

- "Fraud" is a word the right wingers use, as in "voter fraud." That is their attempt at shifting the question from "are the voters being cheated?" to "are the voters cheating?" I don't think we should use it in conjunction with electoral irregularities.

- Suspicion about the electronic voting machines can hardly still be called "tin foil" can it?

- I think that a Clinton victory in New Hampshire was the better outcome for Edwards than an Obama victory, so I am not sure that Edwards supporters have a stake in this feud.

- There are many people who have been investigating and reporting on the irregularities with the voting machines for years, and I do not think that there is justifiable cause to question their integrity. I wish the same could be said for our elections.

- The integrity of the elections should take precedence over the fortunes of any candidate in any race.

- With voting that is not transparent, it is inevitable that there will be suspicion. We should not blame those who raise suspicions. If anything, we should thank them.

[CorpGovActivist]

54. Clarifications

"- I didn't see any Edwards supporter claim that Edwards was a victim in this. Did you?"

Yes, there were a few statements to that effect. They were mild, but they were there.

"- 'Fraud' is a word the right wingers use, as in 'voter fraud.' That is their attempt at shifting the question from 'are the voters being cheated?' to 'are the voters cheating?' I don't think we should use it in conjunction with electoral irregularities."

I understand that semantics can matter. What's the term experts prefer? I meant it as fraud perpetrated on the electorate, not by the electorate.

"- Suspicion about the electronic voting machines can hardly still be called 'tin foil' can it?"

Nope. However, before I'm going to break my pitchfork out of the vault and join an angry mob, I want to have clear and compelling evidence. I'm still having a really tough time understanding why the paper trail / audit trail advocates have been so ineffective to date.

"- I think that a Clinton victory in New Hampshire was the better outcome for Edwards than an Obama victory, so I am not sure that Edwards supporters have a stake in this feud."

I wholeheartedly agree.

"- There are many people who have been investigating and reporting on the irregularities with the voting machines for years, and I do not think that there is justifiable cause to question their integrity. I wish the same could be said for our elections."

I didn't mean to question their integrity. I do, however, question their effectiveness, their organization, their tactics, their strategy (or lack thereof), their game plan, and their timetable.

"- The integrity of the elections should take precedence over the fortunes of any candidate in any race."

You're preaching to the choir. The links referenced in the OP entailed my devoting untold hours to what - for me - is a sacred thing: the fair, equal, and impartial exercise of the franchise.

"- With voting that is not transparent, it is inevitable that there will be suspicion. We should not blame those who raise suspicions. If anything, we should thank them."

Raise the suspicions? Fine. Solve the problems by being effective, organized, strategic, persistent, and persuasive? Even better.

- Dave

[Two Americas]

58. a thing of beauty

Thanks Dave. Great post. I am in complete agreement with you. Thanks for the clarifications.

[CorpGovActivist]

60. As the Second Story Link in the OP Suggests...

... I am a HUGE proponent of civil discourse. The factions on the Council learned from one another once the three-ring circus got tamed. The measures that were passed benefited from everyone's thinking, once people started listening, and giving each other a chance to clarify initial, unrefined thinking.

- Dave

[bobbolink]

68. I'm an expert, and I insist you say "Election Fraud"

or...

Electile Dysfunction.

That is all.

:hi:

:pals:

[CorpGovActivist]

69. I'll Go with Option #2...

... now let's see if I'm using it correctly in a sentence: "Despite his lip service to campaign finance reform, John McCain suffers from electile dysfunction."

:pals:

- Dave

[bobbolink]

70. .

:rofl:

You're either a damned good writer, or a colossal smart ass.

.
.
.
.
.
.
.

I'll take door #1.

:pals:

[CorpGovActivist]

71. They're Not Mutually Exclusive

:pals:

:hug:

- Dave

[bobbolink]

73. Where's the white flag emoticon when I so desperately need it?!

Yes, you bear a striking resemblance to Samuel Clemens!

:hug:

Good night, Dave.... thanks for keeping us on our tippy toes!

:yourock:

[CorpGovActivist]

75. Nighty Nite!

Sleep well, and thanks for the reminder that I need a birthday haircut!

LOL!

:hug:

- Dave

[bobbolink]

79. Did you get that haircut today? ~~~chortle~~~~

I got a new one for ya today.......

You might wanna engage in a battle with the Brother sewing machine company, after what I discoved today. Hate speeech?????

I noticed in the section on describing the various stitches, they called one "faggoting". SURELY they should be brought up short on that one, eh?

:hippie: :think:

OK, you're right.... I probably need more rest.

:+

[CorpGovActivist]

80. Nope. Too Cold.

You need more rest.

:rofl:

- Dave

[CTyankee]

51. 5th generation Texan? Lordie, I'm impressed!

My mother and daddy were 2nd generation so I was 3rd, but this was a long time ago. Fifth generation was when? Before Texas was a state?

I'd love to hear about your genealogy!

[balantz]

20. I know conspiracy theories are frowned upon,

and I can see why as they can get carried away. But while we're on the subject, can someone tell me how it was that Edwards was polling so high at the beginning of the Iowa caucus, only to have the numbers roll back and then stay down? I think I remember hearing that the first numbers were from rural areas in favor of Edwards or something, but it looked awfully funny to me watching that lead evaporate.

[CorpGovActivist]

22. Advanced Electoral Data Dicing...

... includes one all-important exercise: note which areas' returns come in at what time.

Often, more densely-populated/urban areas report late. That stands to reason, since - all things being equal - fewer votes to count means smaller townships/precincts can wrap up their tallies and send them in to the state officials.

There may well have been a rural/urban split in Edwards' vote tallies, and the early lead eroded as a result.

- Dave

[Two Americas]

62. depends

It all depends on which precincts report first. Nothing suspicious in Iowa. It was fun seeing Edwards in the lead for a while though, eh?

[EFerrari]

29. Your trust is misplaced. Politicians typically stay out of these problems,

voters take the lead.

[CorpGovActivist]

30. Well, I'd Still Say...

... that any top-tier candidate, presented with credible/tangible evidence of foul play, would be receptive.

- Dave

[EFerrari]

31. Gore was tradduced for his trouble and with very little support.

He had to preside over his own screwning.

Kerry wouldn't even go there in public although his campaign did file a lawsuit.

Dave, it's not going to happen that way. The gains we've made in this area over the years have been small and slow and hard won, funded and staffed and supported by us.

Another way to look: the spread of delegates is satisfying enough for the three candidates to make the calculation to move on, no? It would be a very dicey proposition to lay yourself open to claims of "bad form" at this point in the primary season. That's why the Ohio recount was left to the third party candidates last time out. No one wants to pay the tab for cleaning up our elections.

[CorpGovActivist]

32. I'm Not Calling You a Numbskull...

... in this http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2643489&mesg_id=2643489">thread.

:hug:

But you did spark the thought.

- Dave

[EFerrari]

33. I do often evoke the numbskull idea for many people.

lol

:hi:

[CorpGovActivist]

34. PHEW! I Thought You'd Know...

... I was needling you, but these days, you never can be too careful!

; )

- Dave

[Blackhatjack]

38. I am an Edwards supporter... But I am also interested in Election 'process' and policy...

Accurate polling is essential to assuring that elections are conducted fairly. That is why the US relies so heavily on exit polls when we send 'observers' to other countries to determine whether their elections are fair or rigged.

I don't point the finger of accusation at anyone regarding the N.H. outcome because we have nothing which tends to support the outcome.

AS I said in another thread, those of us interested in the political process and conduct of elections will be studying this one for some time given the number of respected polling organizations, and the candidates themselves, who got this one wrong.

'Something' happened. WE do not yet know what the 'something' was. We have an obligation to find out what that 'something' was and how it came about in this primary.

That is not a 'tinfoil' theory. That is an assertion based on facts we do know.

[balantz]

39. Please educate me on this if you can.

When you say "given the number of respected polling organizations" just who owns these organizations? Weren't the exit polls conducted by CNN? Believe me, I would love to feel that everything is fair and not corrupted by major corporations which have giant stakes in elections, but which polls are truly "public entities" or some such thing? Are the conducting of these polls monitored?

[CorpGovActivist]

41. I Would *Never* Accuse You of Wearing...

... a tinny beanie, you know that!

:toast:

This is one for the history books. Onward and upward, my friend!

- Dave

[Stewie]

40. The reason his numbers didn't move

Is because he got 17 percent in a small, homogenous state and he has pretty much the same appeal in rural and urban areas. As your voter share gets lower your base of support is more stable. Guiliani and Paul both stayed at 9 and 8 percent all night. Heck, Hillary got more than twice his share and hers only moved four percent.

And I do recall seeing one network graphic showing Edwards with 20% early.

[CorpGovActivist]

45. Thanks!

Good to know, love your screenname and your avatar, too!

- Dave

[OneGrassRoot]

49. I was thinking IF - and that's a big IF - IF Edwards could...

bring the ISSUE to the forefront, he's in the best position to do so now.

It should have been brought up BEFORE the primaries, as a continuing systemic issue worrying many voters. But, since it wasn't - or it wasn't picked up on by the media if any of our candidates did raise the issue - now is the time, way before the GE.

And JRE is the one to raise it because there really isn't anything to contest as it concerns him since he is such a distant third in NH. He wouldn't be contesting it on his behalf or Hillary or Obama. He'd simply be acknowledging the issue has been raised by concerned voters.

The issue has reared its ugly head already, so it needs to be brought up as a topic of discussion that requires attention. He could do it, whereas it would be unseemly for Hillary or Obama to at this point.

[CorpGovActivist]

50. Why Not Howard Dean? n/t

[OneGrassRoot]

52. Absolutely! Of course, as an Edwards supporter...

I was thinking of a way for him to address a legitimate citizen concern and get air time...lol. Hillary and Obama clearly cannot do so at any point henceforth.

Nice to see ya, Dave! :hi:

[CorpGovActivist]

55. Nice to See You, Too!

I didn't think you meant to write Edwards off as the sacrificial lamb.

; )

- Dave

[Two Americas]

56. Gravel

Mike Gravel could do us all a great service here.

This is all so destructive. I don't blame the Clinton supporters here for being upset. None of this is their fault. The central tabulators can be hacked and compromised. It could be done as a set up to ruin the campaign of an innocent candidate. See what I mean? What if you wanted to take down, oh say Huckabee? Hack into the central tabulator, give him a tainted "win," then blow the whistle on him. All with him being completely innocent. His candidacy would be destroyed. Far-fetched, maybe, but the point is that without transparency we have no way to know what is happening, and we have the right to know.

Just look at the damage this is doing right here today. Yet, we can't tell people to be silent and not raise concerns.

So long as there is suspicion about the integrity of election results - well-founded suspicion! - we will always be living under the shadow of this, and the possible ramifications and implications down the road cannot be known.

[BuelahWitch]

57. Hey, I'd wrap myself in Reynolds Wrap for JE!

But somehow I think his wife would object...:evilgrin:

[CorpGovActivist]

61. All Righty Then! LOL! n/t

[ileus]

59. maybe he should sue.

[defendandprotect]

63. There's more than 10 months to the election . . . are you resigned to a corporate candidate?

Recognizing all you do about what happened with the NH "vote" . . .
many questions which aren't getting answered ---
but if you feel in your gut something may be wrong, then why not acknowledge it?

What you're describing is outright BIAS by corporate-media who do not want an anti-corporate
president!!! Why not acknowledge that?

I didn't watch any of it ---
WHY? I don't trust Diebold --- not with our elections or with polling so why trust a primary
delivered by corporate-media?????

Evidently, it will work to discourage people from continuing to support the candidates they
believe in ???

[defendandprotect]

66. I don't watch MS, but from what's being described . . . only TWO Dem candidates listed . . . ?

yet THREE Repug candidates ---

Looks like outright and blatant BIAS to me from corporate-media --- !!!

And, that would just be the most OBVIOUS clue ---

[CorpGovActivist]

67. Not in the Least n/t

[LostinVA]

74. Edwards is a very strong second choice for me

I admire his background and I must admit, I really like his wife.

And the Reynolds Wrap does need to stay in the kitchen.

[CorpGovActivist]

76. As I've Stated Elsewhere...

... Elizabeth and Cate Edwards' influence on John (e.g., on LGBT issues) is just one reason of many that I am supporting him.

Where in VA? NOVA here, but lots of family throughout.

- Dave

[LostinVA]

77. I'm no longer in VA

I used to live in Central VA (around C-ville), but I moved up to NJ this summer, when I married Haruka.

I agree with you about Elizabeth and Cate being a good influence on John.

[CorpGovActivist]

78. Congrats!!!

:hug:

Were you at UVA?

How do you like Jersey?

Who's your current top choice?

- Dave