Strait of Hormuz - "It's a Fake"

[reprehensor]

It's a Fake

by Hooman Majd, January 9, 2008

The Pentagon's version of the encounter in the Strait of Hormuz on Sunday morning, involving U.S. Navy warships and Iranian Revolutionary Guard patrol boats is, at the very least highly suspicious. On Tuesday, the Navy released video footage and an audiotape to back its claims that the Iranian boats acted in a threatening and provocative manner, but neither the video nor the audio are particularly convincing as proof that Iran had hostile intentions. The video, which shows what is claimed are Iranian boats speeding around U.S. ships, doesn't show any of the boats hurtling directly towards any of the navy ships, nor does it show what the Pentagon claimed the Iranians then did, namely dropped "white boxes" in the water. (I would have opened fire at those, wouldn't you?) The audio tape is even less convincing, mainly because the person speaking doesn't have an Iranian accent and moreover, sounds more like Boris Karloff in a horror movie than a sailor in the elite branch of Iran's military. (The tape is also separate from any video.) Any Iranian can immediately identify Persian-accented English, particularly if the speaker has had little contact with the West, as is the case with Revolutionary Guardsmen and sailors. Iranians, you see, have difficulty with two consonants such as "p" and "l" next to each other; even Iranians who have lived in America for years will often pronounce "please" as "peh-leeze", or in this case, "explode" as "exp-eh-lode". On the tape, "explode" is pronounced perfectly, albeit as if the speaker was a villain addressing a superhero. Further, it is unimaginable, given what is known about the Revolutionary Guards (and I have met many), that one of its corps would speak in a such a manner, even if the accent were correctly Persian...

Continued...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hooman-majd/its-a-fake_b_80682.html

[malaise]

1. Duh!

Wag that dog!!

[Lugnut]

28. You beat me to it.

A picture of the two small boats was in our local paper today. I pointed it out to the other half and asked him if he could tell whose boats they were. They must think we're stupid.

[dmallind]

2. No the Strait of Hormuz really exists

interesting info on accents though.

[screembloodymurder]

83. Yes, it's right next to the

Gulf of Tonkin.

[K Gardner]

3. Here's another aticle/link. I saw this video today and my first thought

as I heard the "robotic" voice from the alleged Iranians was that something was amiss.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/010908F.shtml

Gulf Video "Fabricated," Iran Says
The Associated Press
Wednesday 09 January 2008

Iran on Wednesday called video and audio released by the Pentagon showing Iranian Revolutionary Guards boats confronting U.S. warships in the Strait of Hormuz "fabricated," an English-language state-run television station reported.

State TV did not give the name of the Revolutionary Guard figure and did not offer more details about how the official knew the footage was "fabricated."

The Pentagon on Tuesday released a four-minute, 20-second video that included audio showing small Iranian boats swarming around U.S. warships in the Persian Gulf. In the recording, a man speaking in heavily accented English threatened, "I am coming to you.... You will explode after ... minutes."

The Iranian boats appeared to ignore repeated warnings from the U.S. ships, including horn blasts and radio transmissions, according to the video, which was shot from the bridge of the destroyer Hopper.

From the Hopper, after spotting the approaching Iranian boats, a U.S. Navy crew member says over the radio: "This is coalition warship. I am engaged in transit passage in accordance with international law. Intend no harm."

The audio and video recordings were made separately but were pulled together by the Navy. Often uneven and shaky, the video condenses what Navy officials have said was a 20-minute or so clash.

The top Navy commander in the Persian Gulf has said the Iranian fleet of high-speed boats charged at and threatened to blow up the Navy convoy as it passed near but outside Iranian waters on Sunday. The Iranian fleet "maneuvered aggressively" and then fled as the American ship commanders were preparing to open fire, Vice Adm. Kevin Cosgriff said. No shots were fired.

In Tehran, Iran's Foreign Ministry has suggested that the Iranian boats had not recognized the U.S. vessels. Spokesman Mohammed Ali Hosseini played down the incident. "That is something normal that takes place every now and then for each party," he told the state news agency IRNA.

On Wednesday, Iran's Defense Minister Mostafa Mohammad Najjar reiterated that the incident was not unusual.

"The identification of vessels passing through the Strait of Hormuz by Iranian navy units is a natural occurrence," the official IRNA news agency quoted Najjar. "Islamic Republic of Iran Navy units always put questions to passing vessels and warships at the Strait of Hormuz and they need to identify themselves. This is in accordance with the normal procedures."

Najjar called Western news reports that the boats threatened to blow up the U.S. warships as "mischief."

" Navy units ... asked them to identify themselves. They responded accordingly and continued their path," IRNA quoted Najjar as saying.

President Bush on Tuesday denounced the incident as a "provocative act."

"It is a dangerous situation," Bush said during a White House news conference. "They should not have done it, pure and simple.... I don't know what their thinking was, but I'm telling you what my thinking was. I think it was a provocative act."

Cosgriff also has disputed Iran's claims that the incident was a routine encounter, saying Iran's "provocative" actions were "deadly serious" to the U.S. military.

-------

[Eurobabe]

79. They sounded kind of Hispanc to me

I'll have my friend who speaks Farsi listen to it tomorrow.

[screembloodymurder]

84. And another.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/10/pentagon-says-threat-may-_n_80954.html

[Hydra]

4. Dur!

"Water is proven wet- more at 11!"

Bushco thinks we're idiots- their s*** is so transparent. OTOH, they know we'll do nothing to stop them, so why bother making it convincing, hmm?

[DanG2012]

54. thought it was bogus

the moment I heard it.

[Dawggie]

5. I have CNN on and just heard the tape for the third time and damn if I didn't think

of Boris Karloff. It sounded waay too melodramtic.

[K Gardner]

7. It sounded robotic. It was just not a natural sounding "voice" to me, also,

Bush ratcheted up his Iran rhetoric today at the presser, where he looked absolutely hungover with one eye half shut.

[bdamomma]

61. maybe it was cheney?? what has he been doing lately.

[Supersedeas]

69. handy little recording device too -- very sensitive to voices in an hairy environment at sea

duncha know

[thevoiceofreason]

6. I was thinking of another Boris

Quick Natasha -- get the Hush-a-boom!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

8. And is it routine to videotape bridge activities at all times?

Are there any active or recent Navy personnel who could answer that?

Otherwise, why did the video camera just "happen" to be running at precisely the time that the boats showed up?

I can guess why. This sounds too much like the Gulf of Tonkin incident, and this time the Busheviks wanted to have "proof" of their put-up incident.

[Disturbed]

11. Gulf of Tonkin replay?

This sounds like a feeble attempt to ramp up the "Iranian Threat".

[reprehensor]

16. Daniel Ellsberg on the Tonkin "incident"

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/reprehensor/42

"The messages were vivid. Herrick must have been dictating them from the bridge in between giving orders, as his two ships swerved to avoid torpedoes picked up on the sonar of the Maddox and fired in the darkness at targets shown on the radar of the Turner Joy: "Torpedoes missed. Another fired at us. Four torpedoes in water. And five torpedoes in water.... Have ... successfully avoided at least six torpedoes."

Nine torpedoes had been fired at his ships, fourteen, twenty-six. More attacking boats had been hit; at least one sunk. This action wasn't ending after forty minutes or an hour. It was going on, ships dodging and firing in choppy seas, planes overhead firing rockets at locations given them by the Turner Joy's radar, for an incredible two hours before the stream of continuous combat updates finally ended. Then, suddenly, an hour later, full stop. A message arrived that took back not quite all of it, but enough to put everything earlier in question.

The courier came in with another single cable, running again, after an hour of relative quiet in which he had walked in intermittently at a normal pace with batches of cables from CINCPAC and the Seventh Fleet and analyses from the State Department and the CIA and other parts of the Pentagon. I was sitting at my desk - I remember the moment - trying to put this patchwork of information in some order for McNaughton on his return, when the courier handed me the following flash cable from Herrick: "Review of action makes many reported contacts and torpedoes fired appear doubtful. Freak weather effects on radar and overeager sonarmen may have accounted for many reports. No actual visual sightings by Maddox. Suggest complete evaluation before any further action taken."

It was a little after 2:00 P.M. The message had been sent at 1:27 P.M. Washington time. Half an hour later another message from Herrick, summarizing positive and negative evidence for an attack, concluded: "Entire action leaves many doubts except for apparent attempted ambush at beginning. Suggest thorough reconnaissance in daylight by aircraft." * ...

...The president's announcement and McNamara's press conference late in the evening of August 4 informed the American public that the North Vietnamese, for the second time in two days, had attacked U.S. warships on "routine patrol in international waters"; that this was clearly a "deliberate" pattern of "naked aggression"; that the evidence for the second attack, like the first, was "unequivocal"; that the attack had been "unprovoked"; and that the United States, by responding in order to deter any repetition, intended no wider war.

By midnight on the fourth, or within a day or two, I knew that each one of these assurances was false." - Daniel Ellsberg, Secrets, pp. 9-12

[GrahmMan]

33. It is procedure to have a camera on the bridge at all times

And for anyone who actually has been through the Strait, they know that there are about 40 folks up there and they are ALL ready to grab that cam.

They likely saw them approaching on radar before and knew a threat was enroute.

I saw the OPREP from this and it looks the same as the account.

I know some people on the PORT ROYAL (the other ship in formation) and they will get back to me once they are "off the grid".

[RL3AO]

9. What is the point of faking it?

If the US Gov't wanted Tonkin II, they would have actually attacked the Iranians right? They are not going to invade Iran because they got close to our ships.

[sabra]

12. generated some great headlines to coincide with Bush's ME journey?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

14. It's called escalation of tension... What is so hard to understand?

The same tactics that got us into Iraq, remember.

[rockybelt]

25. The Gulf of Tonkin incident

never happened either. That is the whole point. It's a tail wagging the dog thing. They have lied so successfully for so long, they do not even realize that people are starting to doubt their stories and check some facts. Thank God.

[GrahmMan]

36. It happened I am certain of that n/t

[rockybelt]

39. What happened

the Hormuz thing or Tonkin? If the Gulf of Tonkin, you are not a student of history.
If the Gulf of Hormuz, you are jumping with no solid proof.

DO NOT AUTOMATICALLY ASSUME THAT WHAT THE GOVERNMENT TELLS YOU IS THE TRUTH! THAT IS A HORRIBLE MISTAKE.

[GrahmMan]

41. I am referring to the Hormuz thing

and I am relying on my years of experience and not jumping to a conclusion.

Also a friend of mine on the PORT ROYAL (the other ship in company) has assumred me that it did indeed happen.

DONT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS ABOUT A POSTERS SOURCES unless you have "solid proof"

[rockybelt]

48. Maybe I am jaundiced by this administration

but I still do not believe it.
First off, we're in their waters and we're saying that they are the aggressors? Come on.

[GrahmMan]

49. We were absoloutely NOT in their waters

The Strait of Hormuz in an international Traffic Separation scheme, classified as international waters by ANY standard.

Be jaundiced all you want, but we were executing standard passage which happens every day by warships from hundreds of countries.

Even if the aforementioned concept did not exist, there is still the concept of innocent passage which would also apply.

[rockybelt]

68. And are not the Iranians allowed in international waters?

Do you not believe that bush is trying to start a war with Iran before he leaves or is forced out of office?

[GrahmMan]

70. I do not hve any opinon at all about the President

He is my commander in chief and I am an active Duty Officer, I do not criticise my superiors in open forum.

[rockybelt]

73. You can't give your opinion

I know that. I was in the military probably before you were born. I also know that you have an opinion and you have some facts there on the ground. being military, politics is and should be out of your realm.

Just remember the rule about disobeying unlawful orders.

[GrahmMan]

74. Appreciate you service.

I never forget that rule, I was at GTMO for 9 months, it was always on my mind.

[rockybelt]

80. I trust you read the latest on the Hormuz deal.

Navy seems to be confused.

This is just my opinion. THEY LIE! No response required.

[rockybelt]

85. Just to let you know

When I was in the military I was with the Army Security Agency which was under direct supervision and direction of the National Security Agency.
I served in North east Africa and was stationed on top of some mountains there. We knew what was happening 1962-1965

[IsItJustMe]

60. And Iraq had wmd, right!!! Don't believe everything our msm tells you.

[IsItJustMe]

59. They invaded Iraq for having wmd, what makes you think these folk are rational?

[Blue Velvet]

10. Interesting info. My first thought when I read about this "incident" was

Why only a twenty second video for a twenty minute incident? Even some of the more editorially-contrived reality TV shows have a better ratio than that...

[GrahmMan]

37. It was sanitized for consumption

They did not want to publicize the ROE for the SOH, those are classified.

[lovuian]

13. they get caught every time

this is getting to be really funny

[louis-t]

15. I'm tellin' ya, it's Cheney's voice

Darth has been practicin' his Farsi accent. Unsuccessfully.

[momster]

24. It's Why We Don't See Him Much

He's been spending his time on Maryland's Eastern Shore practising with a speed boat for just this occasion.

[Bok_Tukalo]

17. "All your straits are belong to us"

<OPE>

[populistdriven]

21. Tell the US that spawn camping is against the rules

[shadowknows69]

26. GAMERS!!!

Busted!!!B-)

[Rockholm]

Classic.

[Gonzo Gardener]

18. Filmed on location...

NEW AMERIKAN CENTURY FILMS Presents An AMERIKAN EMPIRICAL Production
~ A Film Written & Directed By *DICK CHENEY*

[malaise]

19. Seriously

Have you ever seen such amazing timing. Hours before Bush arrives in Israel this happens. Sorry I don't drink Kool-Aid. This is so fake it isn't funny.

[jgraz]

20. No, wait! Hillary really won!!

Whoops, wrong conspiracy theory. Never mind.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. Either way, it's hilarious.

"you will explode in minutes."

:rofl:

[TankLV]

42. They should have had the chicken - less explosive than turkey...

[formercia]

23. I bet Boris didn't have a gold key around his neck either

as any self-respecting Revolutionary Guard would. (The key to Paradise)

[Wednesdays]

27. Those little boats looked like there were a bunch of water skiiers

[bdamomma]

62. or drug runners!!!

[IamyourTVandIownyou]

29. What if there was an Iranian Gunboat off the coast of New Jersey?

Aye?

[seemslikeadream]

30. The Straites of Tonkin?

"Coincidence Theory: By shear chance things just happen repeatedly and coincidentally to benefit their interests without any conscious connivance by them, which is most uncanny. There is also: Stupidity Theory, Innocence Theory, Momentary Aberration Theory, Incompetence Theory, Unintended Consequences Theory and Innocent Cultural Proclivities Theory."

- Michael Parenti

[7 of 11]

31. Normally I would roll my eyes and say, Oh another conspiracy theory

But I would not put it beyond Chimpy to pull off a stunt like that.

I mean this is the same guy that makes fake new conferences, and fake hostage rescues, and fake turkeys at GI thanksgivings parties. I really have to take into account the possibility that this was faked too.

[two gun sid]

32. 20 years ago I was on a frigate in the Persian Gulf...

basically, we went into Iranian waters to fuck with them and possibly get them to take a shot at us. The Revolutionary Guards used to come tear-assing out at us in rubber Zodiac boats. I guess I can believe this recent encounter happened but, fuck, it's pretty hard to believe anything the military says.

What I'd really like to know is if the USNavy war ships were inside Iranian waters when this incident happened. If they were, and they have a history of provocative acts against Iran, they were in violation of international law and they can't really complain about the RG's actions.

[GrahmMan]

35. They were not in Iranian Waters

They were in the international Traffic Separation Scheme. What they did was in CLEAR violation of International Law.

BTW, when you were doing that exercise were you doing it in the 12NM zone or the bullshit "EEZ" that goes out 50 miles?

[two gun sid]

38. 1986....

we went hot, dark and quiet one night and almost drifted into a "oil platform" around Kharg Island when 3A diesel would not start and we ran out of air. Got pretty tense for a minute. We used a pressurized N2 tank on the air start to get the D/G going and get the plant back up. Did a lot of patrolling in the "Hot Box". Iran threatened us with Silkworm's when they first got them operational in the straits. Ahhh, fuckin' good times.

We were in close enough to see land.

[GrahmMan]

40. Yeah Ive been at that party

ABAT & KBAT duty in Iraq, I was there when the FIREBOLT sailors were killed, that was not a fun time. I hate dhows.

[two gun sid]

44. Just before we were relieved....

the Iran-Contra scandal broke. I always wondered where the RG's got those brand new OMC outboards for their brand new Zodiac boats from. Turns out it was us. The Stark, who was homeported with us, got hit that spring. I knew a couple of the EM's that were killed. Jesus, I hated that fuckin' place. Steamin' at just a couple of knots after dark to push the mines away from the hull with our bow wake. Those poor kids they suckered into volunteering for a Stinger detachment.

Hey man, thanks for your service. I hate fuckin' dhows too.

[GrahmMan]

46. I served on the ELROD

which was built a little before the STARK. I was the DCA, so all we did was freaking training on that effing scenario.

[two gun sid]

47. FFG4

Talbot. Long since turned into razor blades. We trained on the Sheffield scenario from the Falkland's War. Exocets up our ass.

Did you stay or are you still in Engineering?

[GrahmMan]

50. Im in Medical these days

Talbot is in Turkey now I think :)

[two gun sid]

76. Our Talbot Association website says she's been scraped...

she was old and unsafe. I'm glad she's gone.

Medical? OK, Doc.

Welcome to DU. I'm glad we've got another shipmate.

[Guitarman]

55. I got you both beat... FF-1047

USS Voge doing link 11 ops with the AWACS out of Riyadh '80 and '81. Back when there were all of three US ships sailing in the Gulf.

[two gun sid]

77. OK, Sea Daddy...

I remember the Voge.

We had 3 tin cans in the Gulf when I was there and the LaSalle. Brits had a tin can over there, too. And the Iranians got one of their tin cans underway for a couple of weeks. They used to chase us around and lock their FC radar on us.

Glad to know you, shipmate.

Peace.

[TankLV]

43. Suuuuure - just because YOU say so!

[GrahmMan]

45. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

I was not in at that time (grade school :) ) but their deal hasnt changed to much since then.

[Squatch]

56. Actually, it sounds like our Navy DUers know what the hell they're talking about

[GrahmMan]

57. Thank you...G-d forbid someone mention their personal experience :0

[Squatch]

58. Well, since your experiences haven't been published by the MSM

(who, BTW, we also cannot trust), it's SOP here on DU to discount the expertise of people like us who have lived and seen this kind of shit firsthand.

You get used to it. :)

[two gun sid]

75. It happened 21 years ago. Sea Stories can...

take on a life of their own so, I have no problem being questioned about my experiences. I'm glad it is SOP. And anyways, No Blood, No Foul.

Peace, Squatch.

[demgurl]

82. Actually, Iranians would disagree with you.

There is a dispute about who owns what in the waterway and Iranians claim (long before this incident) that that area belongs to Iran. The US would be privvy to this knowledge and could easily use it to their advantage knowing most of the world accepts it as an international waterway whereas Iran does not.

[bdamomma]

63. I have a question and I am not a military person

so it's that easy just to find yourself in Iranian waters when you think you could be in International waters?

[GrahmMan]

71. Not if your Navigator is worth a rats ass

The GPS systems and gyros on modern ships are insanely accurate, there is no reason in that International Traffic Scheme to be out of the Strait it is very wide. Most of the Islands they claim in the gulf are disputed as well.

[two gun sid]

78. In our case we did it on purpose...

The Navy did it all the time when I was in and I'll bet they still do. They used to steam up into the Gulf of Sidra and fuck with Gaddafi in the '80's. Remember the Gulf Of Sidra incident? 12NM, 50NM, 62NM in the case of Libya and Sidra. It's a big fuckin' game really.

[Swamp Rat]

34. It was Bushler and his evil dad in one boat, and Dickhead Cheney in the other.

[Rockholm]

51. As I said yesterday...IT WAS BORAT!!!!!!

[eridani]

52. Looks like voice-morphing isn't an option for the foreign language and culture challenged

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x3185

[Zodiak]

53. I know an Iranian

Recently arrived from Iran. He has a Persian accent....lovely accent, actually.

The voice on the tape is not a Persian accent, which is more sing-song than this Boris Karloff dude.

The tape is too much like a movie bad guy....almost contrived to sound like that.

[bdamomma]

65. I wouldn't put anything past *co.

[zorahopkins]

64. One More Reason To Impeach NOW

What will it take to convince our elected leaders that we must IMPEACH Bush/Cheney NOW!

This sort of thing -- faking an attack -- and being so ham-handed in doing so -- is just so typical of Bush.

Impeach Bush/Cheney NOW!

[HamdenRice]

66. Karloff? Sidekick? F**K YOU!

I'm sorry, the mention of Karloff always makes me think about the great line in "Ed Wood" by Bela Lugosi (played by Martin Landau):

Karloff? Sidekick? FUCK YOU! Karloff did not deserve to smell my shit! That limey cocksucker can rot in Hell for all I care!

Anyhoo, yeah this video is about as convincing as an Ed Wood film.

[Snarkturian Clone]

67. "IT'S a FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!!!!!!!!"

[Atman]

72. Were there two different radio communications?

The voice in the radio clip does not come close to matching the voice in the video clip, in either tone or cadence. In the video clip, the officer on the radio sounds "official," stating his demands forcefully, quickly, professionally. The dude on the supposed radio clip sounds like they gave the mic to some guy in the studio and told him to read a script...he doesn't sound too intense, too concerned, too anything but laid back, certainly not as if he's concerned that he might be about to get exploded.

Just another crock of shit with impeccable timing for Mr. Bush.

.

[malaise]

81. Bingo

There must be excitement for his arrival in the region. That fucker is sick.