Poll: Will the Libby jurors vote guilty or hung jury?

[PhilipShore]

Poll question: Poll: Will the Libby jurors vote guilty or hung jury?

The poll is not asking if you think he is guilty or not -- only how you feel the jurors will vote.

[SteppingRazor]

1. I think a hung jury is the least likely of all outcomes

In high profile cases, judges take a very dim view of juries that can't make up their minds. Even if it takes them weeks, the judge will insist on a verdict. Eventually, therough sheer attrition, the minority will concur with the majority, and we'll have a verdict.

[Hepburn]

2. IMO...

...when the defense argument is not to convict cuz he has two kids and a family??? Ummmmm....IMO, even they expect a guilty verdict.

[TahitiNut]

3. Since there are five separate charges, the poll is insufficiently diverse.

The jury can be unanimous or split on any or all charges ... and, if unanimous, they can issue verdicts on each charge independent of the others.

[Monkeyman]

4. What I heard a deal has been offered

[SteppingRazor]

5. Where'd you hear it? Got a link? n/t

[PhilipShore]

6. Hung Jury

The trial has to many hot button issues to be independent and reasonably just: politics, war, religion, and race, which will only work in Libby's favor -- so he will walk.

I am not a lawyer -- but I think the lawyer Kunstler said something like:

If I can't argue the fact argue law, if I can't argue the law - argue facts, if I cannot argue either facts or the law -- use the race card.

[Spazito]

8. Quite the opposite, imo

The jury is made up of educated people who, by all accounts, have been taking their responsibilities very seriously. The indictment lists 5 separate charges and within the charges are separate counts, any one of which if the jury finds Libby to be guilty would mean Libby is guilty of the overall charge. It is highly unlikely, given the evidence provided by the prosecution, the jury will hang on all 5 charges.

The defense is hoping, in vain, imo, for jury nullification as opposed to a hung jury.

Link to the indictment:

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/documents/libby_indictment_28102005.pdf

[PhilipShore]

9. Bush v. Gore

The jury is made up of educated people who, by all accounts, have been taking their responsibilities very seriously.


In Bush v. Gore, very educated people at the Supreme Court - neglected to look at the laws and the facts, because of politics.

[Spazito]

12. Comparing the decision of the USSC, made up of political

appointees, to that of a jury made up of citizens taking their responsibilities seriously is a non-sequitur, they do not equate in any way. Had the case gone before a judge alone, you might well have an argument but, seeing as that is NOT the case, your comparison is not relevant, imo.

Edited to add missing punctuation.

[PhilipShore]

16. I actually find it more relevant today -- because of the Supreme Court decision...

of Bush v.Gore. Now the average juror - can can appeal to whatever prejudgment they may have; because even the Supreme Court did it. Not everyone in this country wanted to end slavery, prejudice, etc.

I am not a lawyer - but at one time the Supreme court - even made prejudice the law of the land in the Plessy case.

I don't agree with it as a liberal, but it would be foolish, in my opinion - to not look at the devastating impact - Bush v. Gore - had on our entire legal system.

[Spazito]

18. Your argument doesn't wash because, imo, you are assuming

the average person on the street, including those now serving on this jury, has been focused on the Bush v Gore decision of the USSC yet all evidence is contrary to that contention. From all that has been reported so far, there is NOTHING to indicate this jury has been acting other than totally responsibly and have been taking their responsibility very seriously.

This morning they requested a flip chart, masking tape and post-it notes. I highly doubt they are mapping out how the USSC decided the Bush v Gore case. This says to me they are taking their job VERY seriously and are intent on getting this right based on the judge's instructions wrt the I.Lewis Libby trial.

[PhilipShore]

19. The delay says to me: Justice delayed is justice Denied

[Spazito]

20. What delay? Surely you did not expect a decision by now?

If a jury is doing it's due diligence, they will take the time to ensure they have considered all the facts, addressed each of the counts, etc. Given there are 5 separate counts and, within them, additional key elements to be decided, if the jury had already returned a verdict it would be more likely, rather than less, their decision was based less on the facts and more on an emotional response. This case is NOT a simple one, it is quite complex in it's charges. Again, evidence so far points to a jury that is acting responsibly and one that is intent on following the Judge's instructions, imo.

[PhilipShore]

21. 5 separate counts?

Given there are 5 separate counts and, within them, additional key elements to be decided,

I am not a lawyer, but, it seems to me it is not that complex. Did he lie? Yes or no. Once the jury does a poll of that, they then do another poll, which counts should we convict on? That process should take no more then a few hours.

If they are not sure, what the answer is -- then they discuss the laws and facts, and if that process lasts between 24 or 48 hours -- my guess is it will be a hung jury, because they cannot figure out and/or agree that they can all agree on what the facts and laws say.

[Spazito]

22. Wow, I find it somewhat sad that you seem so quick to relegate

this jury panel to the intellectual dustbin. Juries, by and large, usually get it right, are able to sort through the evidence in a complex case to reach a just verdict based on the charges and the evidence provided by both the prosecution and the defense.

I believe this jury is quite capable of sorting through the evidence and the requests they have made today ie, flip charts, tape, post-it notes and photos of the witnesses strengthens, rather than weakens, that belief.

[PhilipShore]

23. No, I was just trying to make the point...

that generally all court cases resolve around one issue, not many. I am not a lawyer, but -- regardless of all the legal mumbo jumbo of the number of counts, and due diligence, etc., -- it usually is clear what that one issue is -- or it is not clear.

[meldroc]

7. Probably guilty on at least some of the counts

but...

that depends on whether the jurors were covertly threatened to be hung...

Don't put that past those sons-of-bitches.

[Rosemary2205]

10. Guilty but it won't matter. - He'll get a pardon anyway.

No way does Bushco let the little liar go to jail.

[AndyTiedye]

11. Jury Tampering

Does anyone really believe that they haven't gotten to at least one of the jurors?

[PhilipShore]

17. I agree

[Jacobin]

13. I think its gonna hang

Hard to get 12 people to agree and all it takes is one person who identifies with the perpetrator and buys into the 'I can't remember everything' line and kaboom...you are hung

[Crabby Appleton]

14. hung or guilty, I'm not betting on the outcome.

I'd guess guilty on 4 of 5 charges or hung on all.

[wildbilln864]

15. guilty with ...

presidential pardon pending. :hi: