Voter ID law is nothing but a scam

[babylonsister]

Voter ID law is nothing but a scam

Cynthia Tucker

Monday, January 14, 2008


(01-14) 04:00 PST Atlanta Journal-Constitution -- If the U.S. Supreme Court upholds Indiana's harsh voter ID law, as its justices seem poised to do, hundreds of thousands of black Americans should march in protest. So should hundreds of thousands of Latino Americans. Native Americans, too. Political activists from across the ethnic spectrum should convene the biggest political demonstration since the historic March on Washington in 1963.

Where is Al Sharpton when a genuinely critical issue comes along? Where's Jesse Jackson?

The GOP-led campaign to pass stringent voter ID laws is a greater injustice than the prosecutions of the Jena Six, more significant than the incarceration of Michael Vick, more damaging than the insulting rants of Don Imus. This is a frankly brazen effort to block the votes of thousands of people of color who might have the temerity to vote for Democrats. And it's un-American.

As happened in several states, including Georgia, the then-GOP-dominated Indiana Legislature pushed through a rigid law in 2005 requiring state-sponsored photo IDs at the ballot box. While the Republican spin machine has worked mightily to portray this as an effort to curb voter fraud, it is no such thing. There has never - never - been a single case of "voter impersonation" at the ballot box, with a fake voter using an electric bill or phone bill to pretend to be a valid voter.

Earlier this month, radio journalist Warren Olney pressed Indiana Secretary of State Todd Rokita about the prosecution of voter impersonation cases in Indiana. "Oh, yeah. We suspect it happens all the time," Rokita said. "Suspect?" Olney countered.

"Well, are you saying you want to define whether or not there's fraud based on whether or not its prosecuted?" Rokita answered, adding, "It's a hard type of crime to catch. ... It's hard to catch one in the act."

OK, then. Got that? It's a little like the search for life on other planets. Extraterrestrials are out there, even if none have actually been spotted.

more...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/14/EDAQUDC8K.DTL

[bunkerbuster1]

1. Boy, do the Georgians LOVE them some Cynthia Tucker!

I can't wait to read the usual LTE tomorrow from some right-winger complaining about Ms. Tucker "playing the race card" or suchlike.

Per usual, she's right on target.

[cgrindley]

2. Voter ID law is common sense

produce a driver's license or other ID card or don't fucking vote. Making excuses for people... oooo they can't go and get an official ID card or they don't trust the government to give them an ID card is just retarded. Jesus. People should grow the fuck up and get a god damn ID card. Try being a permanent resident... try going through the hassles necessary to get a green card. I have no sympathy for any asshat who claims that they can't muster the energy or intelligence to get a proper ID. God's balls.

[babylonsister]

3. You need to educate yourself:

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/10/supreme_court_considers_voter_id_law

Try googling for lots more.

[countryjake]

4. Are you saying that my 89 yr old mother should grow up?

Explain please!

[babylonsister]

5. Crickets! nt

[countryjake]

11. ROTF! God's balls, indeed!

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cgrindley]

40. Yes. She should grow up.

She should produce ID to vote. If she can't muster the energy or ability to obtain an ID, she should not vote.

[countryjake]

118. Why? Explain to me why she should produce ID to vote...

You sit there banging away on a typewriter, ranting at me that a woman who has lived on the same land for 89 years needs some fucking piece of plastic in order to exercise her RIGHT TO VOTE.

Please, why is that necessary? What possible reason, other than fascism, would require a person who has barely been off of her property for the majority of her life, to give a diddley SQUAT if anyone else knows WHO she is or WHAT she looks like?

I don't know where the hell you come from, but welcome to America. My mother's people had to fight this fucking government to even be recognized as citizens in their own homeland. My Great-grandparents had their farm and fields confiscated by the godamned rich white ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS who decided my people weren't HUMAN enough to hold a deed to dirt they had cultivated for over a hundred years.

There ain't no national ID or government that has a right to tell my mother she cannot vote. My gramma marched and fought for her right, my mother's right, and MY right to vote for who represents US in this country and there ain't no weaselly little somabitching fascist rightwingnut gonna take that right away!

[cgrindley]

120. It's the 21st century

welcome to it. I don't think that "liv on the same land for 89 years" gives anyone any special rights. No special rules. Produce some official ID if you want to vote.


PS I dare you to call me a fascist rightwingnut again. I am infinitely more democratic than you are... you've just argued that "liv on the same land for 89 years" should give someone special privileges. Well, guess what, sunshine, it don't. Or are you claiming that your grandmother has a better claim to vote than all those who immigrated to this country.

[Leopolds Ghost]

130. Yawn. It's the 21st century, we should have offshoring and iris scans

For anti-globalization activists who get sent off to jail
protesting the ineffectuality of the ballot box in the first place.

Remember "this is the 90s, stupid!"

"This is the 80s!"

"This is the 20th century -- a time of increasing government efficiency,
of machine societies! it's a whole new era! Out with the old, in with the new!"

[Moochy]

132. Your Brand of Technofascism Sucks!

Mine is better.... newer. It's got more megabytes, more features, and more exemptions for telecom spying.

In the future, fascism will be more efficient. You will need proper biometrics to prove that you are who you are, and not some voter-fraudster!!!

[Leopolds Ghost]

134. I'd say Moochy is doomed if (s)he's up to something. But then, I'm not Moochy. Or am I?

Fred (Arctor): I'd say Arctor is doomed if he's up to something. And I have a hunch from what you're saying that he is.

Fred: Crazy job they gave me. But if I wasn't doing it, someone else would be. And they might get it wrong. They might set Arctor up, plant drugs on him and collect a reward. Better it be me, despite the disadvantages. Just protecting everyone from Barris is justification in itself. What the hell am I talking about? I must be nuts. I know Bob Arctor. He's a good person. He's up to nothing. At least nothing too bad. In fact, he works for the Orange County Sheriff's office covertly, which is probably why Barris is after him. But that wouldn't explain why the Orange County Sheriff's office is after him. Something big is definitely going down in this house. This rundown, rubble-filled house with its weed patch yard and cat box that never gets emptied. What a waste of a truly good house. So much could be done with it. A family and children could live here. It was designed for that. Such a waste. They ought to confiscate it and put it to better use. I'm supposed to act like they aren't here. Assuming there's a "they" at all. It may just be my imagination. Whatever it is that's watching, it's not human, unlike little dark eyed Donna. It doesn't ever blink. What does a scanner see? Into the head? Down into the heart? Does it see into me, into us? Clearly or darkly? I hope it sees clearly, because I can't any longer see into myself. I see only murk. I hope for everyone's sake the scanners do better. Because if the scanner sees only darkly, the way I do, then I'm cursed and cursed again. I'll only wind up dead this way, knowing very little, and getting that little fragment wrong too.

Luckman: This proves you got somebody out to get you real bad Bob.
I just hope that the house is still there when you get back.

Fred (Arctor): Yeah I didn't think of that.

Barris: I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Luckman: You wouldn't! Christ! They may have broken in and ripped off all we got. All Bob's got anyhow. What if they stomp the animals?

Barris: Don't worry about it. I left a little surprise for 'em.

Fred: What?

Barris: Yes. Anyone entering the house while we were gone today will receive a little surprise. A little something I perfected earlier this morning.

Fred: What kind of surprise? It's my house Jim, you should ask me before you start wiring up my house.

Barris: Why would you get so uptight about protecting your house from intruders? Why would you care?

Fred: I'm just saying it's my house, that's all. You can't start going around booby trapping my house.

Barris: Okay, okay! I mean jeez. Or as the Germans would say "leise" which translates to "be cool". Just be cool.

--A Scanner Darkly

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405296/quotes

[proud2BlibKansan]

145. You are promoting fascist rightwing beliefs

So if the shoe fits. . .

[Richard Steele]

166. You say as if he's ever done anything else.

He hasn't. Not since the day he first plopped in.

He alternates between expounding support for every lockstep
fascist notion that comes down the pike, and sadly transparent
attempts to "SUBTLY"(lol!) create the impression that he's some sort
of wealthy, well-educated elitist snob.

Problem is, he's not clever enough to keep his story straight, and
he keeps tangling his web every time a DUer points out a discrepancy
in his bullshit.

He originally claimed to be in Canada; he had to invent the whole
"expatriot with a green card" storyline in a hurry after he was caught
admitting he lived in the USA.

He claims to have several advanced degrees, and to be a published author,
yet just today he arrogantly derided the 'uneducated palates' of the
ignorant proles who turned up their noses at "sweatbreads".

The word he wanted was "SWEETBREADS", and no one but a bullshit net-posing
little TROLL would ever make the spelling mistake he did.

If he likes "SWEATbreads" so much, I'll formally invite him to drop by
for dinner, and jam a home-baked hardroll between my pale hairy asscheeks
before I spend 6 hours slaving over that hot stove.

I got Mr. Grindley's SWEAT breads RIGHT HERE, knowhutImean?

[proud2BlibKansan]

170. And he admits he can't even vote!!

After hours on this thread, he let that little factoid out! LOL

[Richard Steele]

172. Give him a few hours on ANY thread, and he'll let something slip. He always does.

He's a pretty good troll, as far as trolls go...but he's
just not as clever as he WISHES he was, and he doesn't
have the self-control necessary to prevent his ridiculous EGO
from wresting control of his typing fingers from his forebrain.

He does RESEARCH before he enters a thread with his bullshit-
every time he plops by, he's armed with a superficial grasp
of some subject he's never mentioned before.

But you get him going, and his "knowledge" quickly falls apart into a steaming
pile of misspelled words, mis-applied phrases, and a whole lot of pathetic
attempts to "explain" and SPIN his previous statements.

[cgrindley]

179. No spin here

1. a working democracy should require its citizens to produce voter registration cards prior to voting
2. a working democracy should require a test of voter competency

I guess the US doesn't really have a working democracy.

[LanternWaste]

189. Maybe not according to your definition

"working democracy should require its citizens to produce voter registration cards prior to voting" Based on what other than your own opinion? Seems to me we've had a pretty good number of elections not requiring a mandated national ID in which the system worked.

"a working democracy should require a test of voter competency" Again-- based on what other than your own opinion? Competency based on what? Cooking? Mechanics? Who decides this-- a governmental or private organization? Why? Why do we disenfranchise the incompetent-- don't government decision affect the lives of everyone, rather than merely the clever amongst us?

"I guess the US doesn't really have a working democracy." Maybe not according to your definition. But, according to your definition, the U.S. has never had a "working" democracy as we've never mandated either...

[Moochy]

175. These are the Trolls of Our Lives!

Great Stuff! Riveting Storyline! :)

[Richard Steele]

176. Nice paraphrasing! *golf clap*

Y'know Moochy, you're kinda like that guy who owns the house
two doors up from mine: I see you around alot, but I've never
actually TALKED to you.

And it's not as if we're really "talking" now, of course...
but I feel the need to mention that you just rubbed me the right way!

Intriguingly surrealistic juxtapositional combinations of iconic phrases
are some of my favorite things, dontchaknow!

And KUDOS on your excellent "nice storyline" wind-down phrase!!

MAGNIFICENTLY UNDERSTATED, sir- well done! :toast:

[proud2BlibKansan]

144. She is dead now

But I am sure she would be thrilled to hear your opinion! :sarcasm:

[wuushew]

6. When is the last time you have been to a government office?

Government services are bad and getting worse, I won't tell you how long it took my folks to get their latest passports even after contacting our Congressional representatives.

I was recently at the DMV and the computer system went down for six hours! I pity you for not having any compassion for elderly or disabled people.


Do you know of any documented cases of voter fraud where you live? Even accepting that fraud contributes incorrectly to a vote count why would you be in support of legislation that would have the effect of making the tally even less representative of the overall population?

[cgrindley]

18. I got my greencard last year

it was irritating and horrible, but that was a greencard. When I went to the DMV, it took less than 20 minutes to exchange my foreign license for a CT one.

PS All citizens and permanent residents should carry and produce ID when the government requires it for reasonable purposes.

[Leopolds Ghost]

102. "All citizens and permanent residents should carry and produce ID when the government requires it"

Or else what?

That right there is a fascist remark, and yes, I realize that's how
they do it in post-fascist Europe where they regard the Bill of Rights
as a peculiar and unsuccessful American experiment, and prefer to
legislate liberalism from a statist position that is not too different
from the one they copied from National Socialism in the 1930s. They
don't like to talk about it but that was quite the model for struggling
economies seeking to escape the Depression. Cf. "It Did Happen Here"
and "The Conquerors". That's where national ID acts and the like came
from. Although of course Britain & co. had internal secret police long
before the US even considered legalizing its own (and still doesn't.)

[LanternWaste]

190. My mistake... I took you seriously.

My mistake.

It would seem as though I erroneously took you seriously and didn't realize that you're simply acting out of frustration, and seem to have an abiding need for the government to protect you from...well, freedom.

Sorry. Again, my mistake. :hi:

[Hellenic_Pagan]

30. Goverment offices suck

They are understaffed, dont have enough resources, are overworked and have too many people coming to them for help.

I think this is all because of the Repukes and their desire to prove how bad "the governement" is so they can have some "private corporation" take it all over.

I think this is a way for them to deny more people the right to vote.

I saw voter fraud in 04. There were two voting places by my apartment.

One was a church, and it was where the mostly rich white district voted. They had a shitload (10) of machines that all worked, and no line. Across the street was the school where the mostly black and hispanic working-class district was supposed to vote. They only had four machines, two of them were "broken".

The line for the school (where I was supposed to vote) was around the block and took over 2 hours to get through. It was frustrating for many of the people in line, who were taking off work (and losing money they needed to earn for their families) to vote.

That is the second election for President I got to vote in. The first was in 00. I was excited in 00 beacuse i had just become of age to vote, and was eager to speak out.

I am angry that BOTH presidental elections i have participated in were stolen by Bush. I am scared that this voterID is a way for them to steal another one.

[proud2BlibKansan]

146. What you saw wasn't VOTER FRAUD, it was ELECTION FRAUD

Big difference.

[Hellenic_Pagan]

156. OOOPS! Wrong term!

Sorry!

I forgot - voter fraud is by the voters, election fraud is what happened to us.

My bad!

Anyway, Im still PISSED about it!

[Leopolds Ghost]

97. Note that producing a passport would not give you the right to vote.

That right there is a clear 14th Amendment violation.

I didn't even know this had reached the Supreme Court
but I DO know that the ACLU Democrats have NOT defended
the INHERENT RIGHT TO VOTE argument. They are focused
on disparate impact because there are many twits in this
country who think that only poor and ignorant homeless
people lack ID and we are only supposed to do this to
protect them, not to defend the inherent right to practice
rights as a a citizen with or without "papers please".
Most of the Big-Government Big-Business Nanny-state
Yale-Harvard Dems who are our only allies on this
issue do NOT understand that argument. They think
only "ignorant slum dwellers" don't have ID or drive.
All of their years of court precedents that they feel
they must draw upon support the interests of the MACHINE.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. No you are the one who needs to grow the fuck up

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/proud2Blib/15

Get thyself educated.

[babylonsister]

9. Proud! Thank you for the link; I do remember this from last

summer. :hug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. I have a feeling it will need to be reposted many times

It blows my mind that people who call themselves 'progressive' actually think there is nothing wrong with voter ID.

And for all you naysayers: I go in my polling place and give them my name and I vote. They cross my name off the list. No one else can show up and claim to be me and vote in my name. No ID is necessary. I called and asked if they had a problem in my state with people claiming to be other people and voting on their name. I was told there have been NO CASES EVER of this happening.

Voter ID is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

[Hellenic_Pagan]

34. Repukes are great at that

Creating a "problem" that doesnt exist so they can "solve" it by making some policy or law that takes away our freedoms!

Say no to VoterID!

PS - I had friends who are native american, and they drove like three or four hours to vote, but were turned away for "no id" while they let the whites in line vote without any.

If people see this as a solution, they are really clueless.

[proud2BlibKansan]

153. So are certain DUers.

:crazy:

[countryjake]

10. Excellent journal entry!

There must be a million stories like that out there! My mom was also born in her mother's bed, hasn't driven for thirty years, and get this, my long dead daddy's "metal box" has curiously been emptied of all the army papers, bank books, deed, car titles, and other assorted ancient documents, and now holds pics of my niece's kids!

We don't need no stinkin' badges!

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. I honestly thought my mom was an isolated case

until I started researching this and was STUNNED by how many people have no picture ID and no way to get one easily. Last figure I heard for Missouri was 65,000. :wow:

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. We were actually proud of the fact that my mom didn't have an ID

We took care of her. We paid her bills, we bought her groceries, we drove her where she needed to go. We thought we were being good children by taking care of her.

[cgrindley]

21. Well, that's just stupid

why are you proud of this? That isn't anything to be proud of.

[gmudem]

65. Wow

This guy is a pretty good example of why post count does not affect the actual content of the posts. This guy is an asshole through and through. And sounds a lot like a Repuke.

[cgrindley]

69. Did you just call me a repuke?

That's against the rules here, jackass.

[gmudem]

116. Well you do support this fascist voter ID law

The Voter ID law is a Republican wet dream and if this law goes into affect it will just be a legal way for them to disenfranchise poor and minorities. I don't see how any Democrat in good conscience can possibly support this.

This country has never required ID's to vote, and as has been repeated over and over again in this thread, voter fraud is a completely non-existent problem, and Republicans are using that excuse to get around the 15th Amendment.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cgrindley]

140. It's the law in Canada, do you think Canada is fascist? (nt)

[proud2BlibKansan]

155. Um our constitutional rights don't apply in Canada

I am surprised you don't appear to know that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

148. " That's against the rules here, jackass."

So is calling someone a jackass.

[cgrindley]

177. Au contraire, everyone here is supposed to be a jackass

or have you forgotten which party we support?

[proud2BlibKansan]

143. I explained that in my post.

Maybe you should read it again.

[cgrindley]

19. If she's senile enough (your words) to lose her passport and driver's license

she doesn't need to be voting.

[GrantDem]

25. wow???

:wtf:

[cgrindley]

29. He called his mother "senile". I'm quoting him (nt)

[wtmusic]

49. Whether she needs to or not, she has the right

What right do you have to take it away from her? Forgetful people aren't allowed to vote?

It don't work that way.

[cgrindley]

53. That needs to be considered. The senile should NOT be voting

I do favor removing their right to vote. Just as I favor an age limitation on automatic driver's license renewals.

[wtmusic]

62. No.

Are you going to test everyone?

What happens when Republicans start deciding what the criteria are for determining "voterworthiness"?

You can see the problems, and why it would never work.

[Leopolds Ghost]

89. That's a bold statement about his mother coming from someone who doesn't have the right to vote.

[cgrindley]

92. I didn't call his mother senile, he did (nt)

[Leopolds Ghost]

106. Why shouldn't the senile have the right to vote? We allow Bush supporters to vote.

Spelling requirements for voting were declared unconstitutional because they barred many people from the polls.

[cgrindley]

107. Bush supporters shouldn't have the right to vote (nt)

[kineneb]

139. then many registered "R" should not be voting

some have the IQ of wilted lettuce...but they still vote

[proud2BlibKansan]

150. There is no voter competency law

Boy you are really on a roll in this thread. Why don't you contact your reps and ask for a voter ID law AND a voter competency test? You could just take your posts in this thread and paste them into an email. You have certainly covered all the right wing we need voter ID talking points.

Be sure and comeback and let us know how your reps reply, okay? :hi:

[LanternWaste]

191. Do you have a list of those you'd like to disenfranchise?

Do you have a list of those you'd like to disenfranchise?

You've already mention the incompetent and the senile... any other groups or people? On what is that list based? Who makes the list? Maybe the blind? The deaf? The illiterate? Nuns?

C'mon,-- I'd really like to see the list of those who feel should be disenfranchised from the voting process... really. I'd really like to see an all encompassing list of those that you personally feel aren't worthy enough to vote...

[Richard Steele]

16. Just like refusing to allow folks wearing JEANS to take the White House tour, right?

Just like all your "opinions" are correct, and the
majority of DUers are always stupid and wrong...:eyes:

[cgrindley]

20. Yeah, sort of

why are people so lacking in common sense.

PS last week, my eldest son (age 14) and I went to DC. There actually is a sign on the Vietnam War memorial urging visitors to show respect and NOT climb or sit on the motherfucking thing. Why oh why is this necessary? Oh yeah... Americans have no god damn common sense. Yes. DO NOT WEAR JEANS to the Whitehouse. BRING ID TO THE POLLING STATION. Jesus.

[Kingshakabobo]

22. Will you get off your high horse for a second and concede the republican....

.....party doesn't give a FUCK about "voter fraud"? Will you at least do that between jerkish posts? Will you at least concede this is part of the republican history of voter disenfranchisement and vote caging of minorities and poor people?

Can you at least concede this is all part of the big picture along with the attorney general scandal as it pertains to pressuring assistant AGs to prosecute non-existent "voter fraud" cases?

Huh? Can you give an inch?

[cgrindley]

28. I don't care which party is in favor of it

identifying yourself via proper ID at the polling station is entirely reasonable.

[proud2BlibKansan]

152. So do you favor providing ID for people who don't have one?

Should the govt pay for the necessary documents needed to get an ID? And the ID too? They also probably need rides to the DMV to get the ID, since these are people who don't drive.

Now remember that if voters have to pay ONE CENT for ID, that would be called a poll tax. And that is REALLY illegal.

Oh wait, don't tell me . . . you approve of poll taxes, don't you?

Shoulda figured that one out before I posted this!

:rofl:

[Gormy Cuss]

24. Here in America, most of us have voted by simply stating our names.

It's worked historically. That's after providing documents (not always an ID card) in order to register. Changing a system that isn't broken doesn't fix a damn thing.

[cgrindley]

27. But that's dumb

show a proper ID card in order to vote. It's not like you're even in the 19th century.

[Gormy Cuss]

41. You can't even vote here yet you know that our system is dumb?

In which great ID-flashing democracy are you a citizen? Did the ID rules come about as a response to fraud or has it always been that way?

There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud in this country. It's not the problem. If anything, the risk for voter fraud is greater with absentee votes rather than polling place ballots. No one asks for ID before counting those votes. A signature is the only verifiable item on the ballot. How 19th century.

[cgrindley]

45. No. I'm calling people without ID dumb

and I'm calling people without the energy, common sense or motivation to obtain an official ID card dumb.

PS the absentee voting system needs to be completely overhauled to include voter identification verification.

[Gormy Cuss]

61. There is no widespread fraud in this country.

Imposing ID requirements is like using an atom bomb to kill a solitary ant. It's a waste of resources for communities because additional poll workers would be needed. It's a waste of time for voters.

No one wins except those who are trying to suppress the vote of those who don't have the resources to get ID just to jump through this hoop.

[cgrindley]

68. How can you possibly know that? (nt)

[Gormy Cuss]

98. Know what?

That there is no widespread voter fraud? Even the Election Assistance Commission's expert panel came to that conclusion, although the bipartisan EAC issued its report with the weak language that the level of fraud was 'in dispute.'

That no one wins except those use voter ID as tool to suppress the vote? Read the literature linked by others here.

[nonconformist]

31. I've been asked for ID the last several times I've voted nt

[CottonBear]

42. We can currently use up to 16 or 17 kinds of IDs including utility bills here in GA.

If the Voter ID law is upheld, it will be very difficult for the poor, disabled, elderly, minorities and those without transportation or the ability to drive (they don; have drivers license) to vote.

[cgrindley]

47. THE GA DMV HANDS OUT NON-DRIVER OFFICIAL ID CARDS

it won't be a burden to anyone with half a god damn brain.

[CottonBear]

64. It is a burden to those who can't get to the DMV. GA DMVs are not located in cities

and are not accessible except by car.

You don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

I, on the other hand, live in GA and know exactly what the situation is and the problems with the Voter ID law are.

We do have to show ID: we can currently use up to 16 kinds including utility bills.
This will all change if the Voter ID law is upheld.

[cgrindley]

71. It's not a real burden, it's a pretend burden

Come on.

[CottonBear]

80. You don't live here. I do. You don't have a clue what the situation in Georgia is. n/t

[Leopolds Ghost]

82. We recently had a Maryland Democrat say everyone should be required to drive

And take mandatory drivers' ed and maintain a drivers license, including immigrants, because "too many immigrants were walking around on the streets and sidewalks getting run over, or driving in unlicensed vehicles and don't understand the rules. In America, we drive."

That is certainly their answer to the notion of the DMV being "inconveniently located"
to pedestrians.

[cgrindley]

91. I'm not even coming close to suggesting that

an official ID card is NOT a driver's license.

[Leopolds Ghost]

104. It will eventually be both a drivers license and a credit card, according to security experts

According to the Washington Post,

Futurists who attend security conferences at the Dulles Expo Center (amid
the ranks of display booths advertising books on counterinsurgency warfare
and non-lethal crowd control weaponry) are heavily attended by government
contractors, industry professionals, and top-level insiders who are
seeking to create an "electronic citizenship society" where people without
a "chip" on their person (be it a card or what have you) will just be shit
out of luck.

[cgrindley]

105. It didn't in Canada (nt)

[proud2BlibKansan]

158. Pssst this is NOT Canada

I realize we DO share a continent and that might be causing you some confusion.

[proud2BlibKansan]

154. How much do these IDs cost?

pssst . . . POLL TAX!!!

[cgrindley]

180. In Canada, voter registration cards are free (nt)

[Gormy Cuss]

46. In three states I have yet to be asked, but my understanding is that it's more likely in the South.

Under HAVA they have proposed that we all show our REAL-IDs for voting starting in the next decade. We've all been assured that REAL-ID compliant drivers licenses are nothing like a national ID card but...

[cgrindley]

48. Every single state SHOULD require it

it's astounding that every single state doesn't.

[proud2BlibKansan]

171. Here I found some real voter fraud for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EQzlHr7gJ0

[Leopolds Ghost]

129. Why, nonconformist? Do you think the government's "need to know" "protects" you from something?

Do you feel safe knowing that nobody out there is pretending to be you?

That anyone who claims to be you will be questioned until he/she
(i.e. you) can prove identity?

It is just more creeping authoritarianism designed to give the government the power to grant and deny the right to vote, just like they grant and deny permits to do anything else, even congregate in the town square.

Of COURSE almost no permit requests (except the ones that obnox them)
will be denied, provided you pay the attendant tax -- in this case a
poll tax, er I mean permit application fee to vote.

[cgrindley]

136. Do you support handgun registration?

just asking. it is also a constitutionally-protected right, and yet no one seems to be bitching about the expense of getting a permit to own a gun.

[nonconformist]

137. Why what? I was just stating that I have been asked for ID

In response to the statement that Americans aren't asked for ID at the polls.

That's all.

Honestly, it surprised me when they started asking. Fortunately for me, I have a drivers license, but I know that it will be a hardship for many.

[Hellenic_Pagan]

36. JIMMY CARTER wore JEANS TO *HIS* White House!!!

Are you saying he has no class?!?!



My dad told me he was a good man, and I believe him.

[cgrindley]

52. Carter's a good man but he has no dress sense

wear a suit in the white house. show some respect to the office. Why do Americans need to be told the obvious? Why doesn't anyone in this idiotic country have any common sense?

[CottonBear]

70. Why don't you go back to Canada if you think we Americans are so stupid and disrespectful?

Jimmy Carter is one of our greatest Americans.

George W. Bush, on the other hand, disgraces the office daily while weraing a suit and tie.

[cgrindley]

73. Yes, Bush does disrespect the office, but jeans are ALSO disrespectful (nt)

[gmudem]

114. Are you kidding?

I wouldn't care if a President was running around the white house with underwear on his (or her) head as long as they were doing the righ things for the country. Wearing a suit and tie certainly hasn't helped Bush, Nixon, Reagan, etc etc.

[cgrindley]

124. No, I'm not

What's wrong with dressing in a suit if you're visiting the White House or serving as President?

[proud2BlibKansan]

157. Now we are getting into dress code arguments??

WOW

How's that authoritarianism workin for ya??

[Hellenic_Pagan]

74. Why does everyone have to dress like you?

I know, im gonna start a shitstorm about my generation. Ive heard all about how "generation Y" doesnt know how to dress, blah blah blah.

But I dont see anything wrong with wearing jeans or flip-flops in the white house. People my age dont dress like baby boomers or generation x. We arent Yuppies.

I dont see what the big deal is.

Maybe when we get a REAL PRESIDENT in the office, i might entertain your point, but till then, I think its a bunch of BS to not let people wear jeans. Its the "American uniform" anyways.

Ive traveled all over the world, and everywhere i go, people love american jeans. They are cool comfy and stand up to wear and tear.

I think we should have the freedom to wear jeans in the white house... its not like we are freaking Brittney Spears showing her fleshy twat or anything. At least if youre wearing jeans, youre covered!

Geeez.

[cgrindley]

78. They don't. I ONLY wear jeans

I'd have to buy a suit to go to the White House. I don't consider that to be an unreasonable burden.

[Hellenic_Pagan]

83. I do. n/t

[cgrindley]

87. So we both wear jeans? Good. Here's a deal for you...

the next time we both get invited to a state dinner in the white house, I'll buy you a fancy set of clothes to wear.

[Hellenic_Pagan]

94. Yay!

:bounce: NEW CLOTHES!

But ONLY if its a DEM!

I might get SICK if i had to eat with a Repuke! :puke:

[Divine Discontent]

167. you do realize your words come across as pretentious and snooty in context

you appear to expect everyone to behave just like you and "know" what things are uncouth based on your chosen opinions.

I find your comment at the end blasphemous, but do I have any right to tell you to stop doing it when I don't know you? No. So, who cares if Jimmy Carter wore jeans to the white house on certain days, do you have nothing better to bring to the table then a gripe about how 'disrespectful to the office' it is that a certain cut of clothing was not worn inside his work location. Good grief. This argument reminds me of a preacher smiling while ripping off the donation plate or screwing one of the church members behind his wife's back - but he smiles, how could he do that! The BFEE has crapped all over the "g&& d&&& piece of paper" as George calls the Constitution, but thankfully he did it in Armani... A man who wears nice clothes would never do such a thing - he's in Armani!

[CottonBear]

32. Only 1/3 of GA counties have DMVs and most are in rural areas w/ no public transit.

The poor, carless and elderly may not have drivers licenses and can't get to where they are issued and can't afford to pay for them (poll tax.)

GA is the biggest state east of the Mississippi River. I live in a very blue college town with a large population of poor minorities and the elderly. There is no public transit to the DMV which not even in my county but is located in a rural county. You have to have a car to get there or pay a small fortune for a long taxi cab ride down a limited access highway.

(R) Gov. Perdue got rid of the DMV drivers license service center which was located inside an in town Kroger and accessible by car, bus, cab, foot or bike.

[cgrindley]

37. People are not utterly incapable of making an effort are they?

From the DMV website:


Georgia residents who don't have a driver's license but need identification can apply for a non-driving ID. Anyone, regardless of age, can apply with the Department of Driver Services as long as you can provide a signature.
Why Do I Need ID?

An identification card is good to have for a variety of reasons. Suppose your driver's license has been suspended or revoked, or you simply don't have one. You need some type of picture ID to cash checks or use credit and debit cards, buy liquor or cigarettes, obtain a passport, and even see some movies. Minors may need ID for school functions or extracurricular activities. It is also a good idea to have ID in case of emergency.
If you don't have a Georgia driver's license, consider getting an ID card.
How to Apply

You must apply in person at a driver's license customer service center. The cost for an ID card is the same as for renewing a driver's license:
$20 for five years
$35 for 10 years
To apply for an ID card, you must prove your Georgia residence by providing at least one of the following:
Utility bill in your name with a Georgia residence listed
Bank statement in your name with a Georgia residence listed
Employer verification (pay stub and W-2 are two examples)
Georgia driver's license issued to your parent, guardian, or spouse

Seriously. People should get a friend to drive them to the nearest bus stop. They should borrow 20 bucks off someone. Otherwise, perhaps they shouldn't be voting.

Really. If people can't get the energy up to obtain an ID card, fuck them. They shouldn't be voting.

[Leopolds Ghost]

55. "If they dont have an ID card, they need one to live in the US. Fuck them. They shouldnt be voting."

Is that your attitude? Because a majority of people consider it socially acceptable, it should be required, and those without it second class citizens? I bet you're one of those -ahem- people that think homeless people shouldn't be allowed to vote either, and want vagrancy laws requiring people to have money AND ID at all times, like in New Orleans and California.

[cgrindley]

79. Yeah, everyone should have an ID card

and no one should be illegal. Of course, I believe that permanent residency should be automatic if a person meets certain minimum standards (eg no huge list of felonies).

[Leopolds Ghost]

95. SO what do you call people without an ID cards? Illegals by your standard. n/t

Instead of doing it based on citizenship requirements,
you want to give the franchise to yourself and take it
away from people that don't have it because they don't
meet other, irrelevant requirements you think they
should meet to be a first class "global citizen" of
the 21st century, such as money in their pocket and
an id and a credit card and an automobile and a detailed
background check on file at the local FBI office.
As long as they're part of the "accredited" classes
they get to vote in the US.

[cgrindley]

100. Yeah, I guess I would

everyone should carry an ID card. But everyone should have the ability to get an ID card. If you refuse to carry one. I guess it's time for jail.

[proud2BlibKansan]

159. How about just tattooing the ID on everyone's forehead?

That seemed to work well for the Germans.

[CottonBear]

76. Once again: there are no fucking buses to the DMVs. DMV are in rural areas. n/t

[cgrindley]

81. So what? Get a friend. A relative. Walk (nt)

[CottonBear]

88. You obviously do not understand the politics, demographics, transportation geography

and the history of voting in Georgia and the South.

[cgrindley]

109. Georgia is 230 miles by 300 miles... you could walk it in a day (nt)

[Elidor]

33. We've gotten along just fine without them for our entire lives

The US Justice department uncovered all of 54 cases of "fraud" in the 2004 election, most of which were shown to be simple mistakes. I believe they ended up prosecuting a small handful. Vote fraud is a non-existant problem in this country, much to the dismay of the Bush Justice Department which, you may recall, has recently lost its top officer for firing US Prosecutors who would not prosecute bogus cases of voter fraud. If real fraud was out there, they would be screaming it to the hills, but they have nothing.

Despite all this, you feel we should all carry an extra form of ID to prevent a problem that does not exist. And your reasoning for this is...what exactly? Oh, yes: you have no sympathy for people. One should generally have at least a passing aquaintance with the facts before talking out of one's ass.

It bears mentioning here that the Justice Department under George Bush has indeed made prosecuting voter fraud a priority -- and came up empty. That fact hasn't stopped voter ID law proponents from claiming hundreds of demonstrated cases of voter fraud. It's quite a morass of innuendo, but the Brennan Center (which has filed an amicus brief with the law's opponents) undertook the staggering task of disproving every one of those claims one by one. It's a 75 page document (pdf).

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/005040.php

Voter ID laws are nothing but an attempt to disenfranchise minority, elderly and lower-income voters, who tend to break Democratic. Strange to hear you spouting off in favor of it on a progressive board.

[cgrindley]

35. So what? It's not 1952 anymore

The world of you antique baby boomers does not exist anymore. It is now the 21st century and voters should have proper ID in order to vote.

[CottonBear]

38. Are you a citizen? Can you vote? You stated that you have a green card.

How could you possibly have first-hand knowledge about voting, especially in the Southern US?

[cgrindley]

43. I can't vote in this country

I can and have voted in Canada. I can and have voted in England. I have produced ID to vote. It's not a big deal.

Honestly. If people lack the intelligence, common sense and energy to obtain an official ID card. THEY. SHOULD. NOT. VOTE.

[CottonBear]

56. You lack the ability to recognize the truth and the facts about the Voter ID law

and the fraudulent claims about "voter fraud" when the actual problem is election fraud.

Obviously, you've never lived in the South and have no concept of the historical disenfranchisement of black Americans and the poor. You also have no concept of living in an huge state with little or no public transit in the majority of the state.

[cgrindley]

59. I'm from British Columbia. It's bigger than WA, OR, CA combined

I think that I know a lot more about coming from a huge difficult to negotiate landscape than you'll ever know.

Producing an official ID card is a perfectly normal activity worldwide for voting. The US--as always--is simply aberrant.

[CottonBear]

85. You are abberant here on DU. Why are you wasting your time here? n/t

[cgrindley]

93. That's a stupid thing to suggest (nt)

[proud2BlibKansan]

162. This from the author of this little gem:

"Georgia is 230 miles by 300 miles... you could walk it in a day (nt)"

[Leopolds Ghost]

58. Well, that explains it. You are a Commonwealth SUBJECT not a citizen

Americans are CITIZENS not SUBJECTS and do not need to PROVE their right to vote, it is INALIENABLE UNDER THE TERMS OF US LAW AND WHY WE FOUGHT TO ESCAPE FROM BRITAIN.

[cgrindley]

63. That's just silly

without meaningless bluster or noise, tell me why someone shouldn't have to prove their identity prior to voting?

[Leopolds Ghost]

108. It is possible to show residency without the need for special additional qualification of a certain

type of card or pass certifying that the Gove't likes you.

For instance, if it's true that this has gone all the way
to the Supreme Court and they're about to uphold it, it
means passports and numerous other documents will not
suffice to guarantee ones' right to vote. But a drivers
license WILL, with no further effort required on the part
of the sheep (most of whom, if asked, would tell you that
people walking on the side of the road, who obviously
don't own a car, don't deserve the right to vote because
they are "incapable of living in our society" as liberals
in my blue area keep telling me.) That right there is
disparate impact. Oh yeah, and the only thing needed to
get a voter ID? Assemble ALL aforementioned documents
that would otherwise be needed at the voting booth, and
cart them to the DMV (Department of MOTOR VEHICLES --
what the fuck are they involved in licensing of non-drivers for?)

One last thing -- where **I** vote, we aren't REQUIRED to
prove who we are because our names are on a fucking list
and we can vote only ONCE. they take our word for it as
citizens, with rights, including the right not to be
questioned unless we are suspected of a crime.

[cgrindley]

125. I'm not taking anyone's word for anything that important

sorry, but I don't live in fantasyland but on planet earth.

[Leopolds Ghost]

131. You're awful protective of the right to vote in a country that has always held these ideals

Under common law that the British Commonwealth started dispensing with
around the time we broke away from them. I expect when you DO get the
right to vote as a US citizen, you'll demand your voter ID (because a
drivers license shouldn't suffice, should it?) be processed quickly
because you are a first class citizen who understands what America
SHOULD be, and not what America IS or WAS. Why do you consider
citizenship in need of verification out of fear of Mexicans and
Canadians (and inner-city blacks or other suspicious looking characters
who cannot show their papers) when you aren't a citizen yet?

We (liberal Americans) are the ones who are saying that we don't
have a problem with US being able to vote as we always have done,
without being asked to prove we aren't Canadians. This puts you out
how? If National IDs are so "modern", why are thay needed in a state
like, oh, I dunno, Australia? To keep Osama Bin Laden from voting?
Or do you just want to feel like your citizenship means something,
that "someone somewhere isn't gaming the system while you're working
hard to become one"?

How come labor and capital recruited by big businesses can move freely
in the new "ultra modern" free trade zones, yet citizenship rights are
personalized, granulated by region (which schools you can enroll in,
where you can get a license etc.) and tied to an object (a card) and
thus restricted, while the European Union tries to sideline
democratically elected parliaments in favor of Soviet-style
superrepresentation?

[LanternWaste]

192. Well, for me it's because...

"tell me why someone shouldn't have to prove their identity prior to voting?"

Well, for me it's because I don't support poll taxes...

[proud2BlibKansan]

161. We really need a Civics 101 site to refer these people to

:rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

160. WHAT!!!!????

You are all over this thread, calling my dead mother names, being a complete asshole on this topic and NOW you tell us you CAN'T EVEN VOTE????????

Next time someone asks me to define "dickhead" I will point them in your direction.

[cgrindley]

178. Voter competency tests and voter registration cards are rather average

requests to make.

a civilized democracy should have a voter competency test and it should require its voters to identify themselves at the polls.

[proud2BlibKansan]

185. Absolutely not

Unlike you, this is my country and unlike you, I never miss an election. So as an informed voter, I strongly disagree with you.

And my vote counts. Yours does not.

[Elidor]

50. And what was your reasoning for that again?

You do have an actual reason, don't you? Other than just because you say so? Tell me you have some assertion why it should be so.

[cgrindley]

57. No no no no... it's not my duty to defend producing ID to vote

it's your obligation to suggest why voting should operate on the honor system. That's just goofy.

[Elidor]

99. No, it's on you

The system has worked fine all of our lives, but now we're supposed to have Voter ID and you can't even cough up a reason for it? How pathetic. How utterly lame. You want us to fix what isn't broken and you can't even come up with a single reason why? You're beneath contempt.

Here's the site you should be on, you miserable excuse for a troll:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/browse

[cgrindley]

103. No it isn't.

Canada and Mexico both require voter ID cards. Surely, the States is simply being backwards and antiquated on this issue.

[Leopolds Ghost]

51. FASCISTS PLEASE LEAVE DU.

Anyone who knows anyone about the New Deal knows that we were promised
America would never have internal passports or "citizenship papers"
such as an identity card that people of YOUR persuasion believe we
should carry around at all times, and risk arrest if it is not on
our possession (as in the case of Louisiana and California).

Couple that with the right of all citizens to vote REGARDLESS IF THEY
OWN A HOUSE OR ANY OTHER "CERTIFICATE" LIMITING THE RIGHT TO VOTE TO
A PERCENTAGE OF THOSE ELIGIBLE.

I suspect cgrindley supports vagrancy laws, like the Maryland Democrat
who wanted to require ALL residents to have a drivers license and
learn to drive, and be prosecuted otherwise, in order to enforce
"safety" in a state with numerous immigrants from rural areas with
few cars.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Leopolds Ghost]

60. "Papers, please." -- Not allowed under the explicit intention of the 14th Amt. and Voting Rights Act

[cgrindley]

66. Producing an ID card does not meet the standard of "abridging"

access to voting. Producing an ID card is entirely reasonable.

[Leopolds Ghost]

75. Requiring voters to pre-register at all, if they can prove residency, is unreasonable.

The 14th Amendment to the Constitution says that the rights enumerated
under the Constitution including the right to vote cannot be alienated
from voters on the basis of any test unrelated to actual citizenship,
be it race or car ownership (and several of the states the High Court
is apparently endorsing do not have ID cards for non-car owners,
they are ALREADY considered second class citizens
and demeaned by well-off suburban DUers for not
having the "mental wherewithal" to get a car or a credit card.)

[cgrindley]

84. the basis of any test unrelated to actual citizenship

so that obviously DOES allow for citizenship cards....

[Leopolds Ghost]

111. A non-driver ID card is not a citizenship card

it is a mark of a second class citizen, doled out by conservative
MOTOR VEHICLE department heads to people they view as second class
citizens (which is why the DMV never has a sidewalk running up to
its door, bus stop or no.)

Not to mention that in America, people are naturalized as citizens
and traditionally, under the terms of the "big-government" New Deal
and certainly before it, not required to prove they are not an
illegal immigrant. All the poll-taker wants to see is proof of
residency in the voting district.

[cgrindley]

126. Well, let's have a national voter registration card system

like there is in Canada. That's the sensible and fair approach. Have it compiled through tax returns.

[Thothmes]

141. Our local DMV

Has a bus stop next to it. A sidewalk to the door and it has a drive through window.

[proud2BlibKansan]

163. If you are going there to GET a license, how are you going to DRIVE thru?

:rofl:

[Thothmes]

182. Very useful

for tag renewal, tag turn in, forms pick up, License/ID renewals.

[Leopolds Ghost]

115. To be fair I'm glad cgrindley is willing to defend his position

Though I fundamentally disagree with it.

Most Dems I know quietly support an ID requirement,
along with standardization of voting booths, under
the unspoken assumption that "shady characters"
going to the polls and not knowing who to vote
for are responsible for our string of recent defeats.
This is what they think "voting fraud" refers to.

They, of course, quietly reflect exactly the sort
of bias that the ACLU is referring to in concentrating
on the poll test issue, since they quietly assume
that anyone without ID probably shouldn't be voting.

That is most Democrats (and probably most middle class
blacks I know) sadly. Most people don't have a problem
with creeping authoritarianism, they want to "set things
right" and have the government screw the people they
disagree with, whoever those people might be.

However disparate impact is not as important as
constitutional rights, such as the inalienability
of the franchise.

[cgrindley]

135. You know me... I'm a big fan of huge nanny-like government

voter registration cards don't scare me. Why? Same reason handgun registration doesn't scare me. And that, too, is a pretty important constitutionally-protected right.

[Leopolds Ghost]

86. Besides which, you're saying people should have to make special effort to retain the franchise.

That's unamerican.

[cgrindley]

90. No. I'm not. An official ID card is NOT a special effort

it's a staggeringly non-special effort.

[Leopolds Ghost]

113. Since I've never been asked for anything but a library card to vote, I take offense

at being asked to take ANY effort to prove I am not "illegal".

It is my right not to be questioned without justification for suspicion.

I suppose we should start arresting anyone who shows up at the Louisiana Polls in 2008 without proper ID, like the local goons threatened to do in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004 whether the law there supported it or not? Creeping fascism...

The only reason I have a "non drivers ID" is because I applied for a gov't
job once (a contractor position, thank god, because I have no intention of
meeting the new Federal fingerprinting requirements -- on
both philosophical and political grounds -- I agree with the Amish.
Of course, the banks are starting to push to implement fingerprint
requirements for everyone who gets an account...)

[cgrindley]

119. Are you calling Canada and Mexico victims of creeping fascism?

having an ID card requirement for voting is unspeakably ordinary around the world. The US is simply behind the times.

[Leopolds Ghost]

123. Yes. Part of the global corporate police state. Bill of Rights is "behind the times"

According to commonwealth "experts". For instance, in France you can be fined for wearing a veil in public buildings. This enforcement of dress code is considered the height of modernity.

[cgrindley]

127. Canada isn't oppressing world freedom, Yankee (nt)

[rAVES]

112. Oh yes.. and if you cant afford it? to bad.. no vote for you.. which party suffers?

[meow2u3]

151. You dumb idiot, mandatory voter ID is a stealth poll tax

You have to pay to get a state-issued ID, and for an ID card which requires a fee to acquire in order to vote, it constitutes a covert poll tax, which makes it unconstitutional. Where the unconstitutional poll tax is collected is irrelevant; a poll tax is a poll tax, whether the tax is collected at the polling station or the local driver's license office.

[cgrindley]

181. Not if the card is free (nt)

[LanternWaste]

188. the burden to convince is on those calling for the new law...

How many people have been convicted of voter fraud from the voter-side of the equation? Is it such a growing problem that we need Voter Id?

And honestly, the burden to convince is on those calling for the brand-spanking new law costing both the government and the private citizen.

God's balls indeed. I'd love to see peer-reviewed statistics rather than mere anecdotal illustrating that voter-side voter fraud is a serious problem. From my perspective, it's less the voters and more the process that is questionable.

[dkofos]

7. It's a scam alright. And it has nothing to do with voting. This is more about

a national ID than than voter IDs.

[wuushew]

39. What about the environmental impact of hundreds of thousands of new lamenated cards every year?

Why do you hate the Earth? :shrug:

[Leopolds Ghost]

67. They are relying on most citizens to already have one before it is required, then the noose will be

tightened further.

Already, criminal background checks are used to remove peoples' rights.

Credit rating is next (and the credit bureaus and banks have been pushing
to legalize credit rating and access to a credit card as a mark of citizenship for over 50 years). Credit card companies will push to allow credit cards as proof of citizenship.

Then you'll have mandatory fingerprinting or iris scan, as you already do on certain "premium" Tokyo subways and to work for any government job.

[suffragette]

15. Include college students in the list of the disenfranchised

by restrictive Voter ID laws.

And, yes, it is all about the disenfranchisement of voters.

Looks like a student who was at Kenyon College in Ohio (remember the long lines there) has organized and is working to address this and other voter issues.

http://savevoting.org/news.html

[Hellenic_Pagan]

44. Of course it includes college students

I had a hard time voting in 00 because i was in college.

Its becasue most college students are liberal, democrats or independents.

If college students were repukes, then they wouldnt be included with minorities, disabled and poor people.

The way we treat the weakest members of our society says who we really are as a nation.

We need EQUAL RIGHTS for ALL - especially the poor, minorities disabled and others who are "disenfranchised". That would make us a great country again.

[suffragette]

110. Bringing it up because so often they aren't mentioned

when voter iD is discussed and it can hit them hard.
Great points about why they are disenfranchised and the change we need to make.

[GrantDem]

23. For some of our less "enlightened" friends...

There is a reason why the republican legislature pushed this bill through and it wasn't to protect us from voter fraud. Very informative study at the link below:

http://www.brennancenter.org/press_detail.asp?key=51&subkey=50867

[wuushew]

26. kick

:kick:

[Lyric]

72. The Voter ID law is a poll tax

Until the vital documents that are required in order to obtain a government-issued photo ID are provided FREE to the public, and until the IDs themselves are provided FREE to the public, ANY voter ID law is a poll tax. Period. You are being forced (indirectly) to pay in order to vote.

I am absolutely 100% against this.

[TCJ70]

77. I'm fine with people needing to show ID to vote...

...but why don't they just choose a few things that everyone already has:
1. Drivers License
2. Utility Bill
3. Something for students to supplement a utility bill

I think the law is on the right track but still not being done efficiently.

[TCJ70]

96. For everyone saying this is an effort to suppress the vote

Which may or may not be true, I don't have an opinion either way. Is this not a good opportunity for some activism? I'm not talking about protests (after all, if you protest this you won't get to vote anyway...so what does that prove?)

There seems to be a lot of concern about GA in particular. DMV's only being located in rural areas and such. Contact churches and other social organizations in the area to coordinate transportation for the elderly and poor to places where they can get ID's. Any church worth anything isn't going to ignore people without any other options.

I don't live in GA and have never been there. I'm just thinking that if this passes, there should probably be some attempt to provide a structure for people who need help getting these things.

[CottonBear]

101. We used to have satellite drivers license center in urban areas but the GA GOP got rid of them.

Our previous ID law worked just fine and didn't burden anyone.

Why does the GA GOP want change it?
To disenfranchise poor, elderly and minority voters and student voters, that's why.

[Leopolds Ghost]

117. Why is everyone ignoring the constitutional right not to be questioned for ID?

Proof of residency in the voting district is all that is required.

If any other poll test is introduced, universal franchise ceases to exist.

Requiring a piece of plastic, or a letter from the governor, or
fingerprints, or sobriety tests, or a background check or what
have you is NOT just an inconvenience.

Contrary to the ACLU's and the plaintiffs' Losing court argument,

This is not just about Poll tests having "disparate impact" on
people we assume are incapacitated and/or unintelligent enough
to not have a drivers license and credit card on them at all times,
like most Americans assume when they see people almost get run over
at the curbside bus stop.

Citizens are Not Required To Produce ID To exercise their Rights
under the constitution (unless they are operating a licensed
piece of machinery, such as a vehicle, which is not a right
but a privilege.)

Poll tests are an infringement on the 14th Amendment, Period.

I don't know if the plaintiffs have even bothered to make that argument, however.

so sure are they that only the incapacitated will be inconvenienced
enough to influence the election, as if that is all that matters.

The reality is, this is how power is consolidated into the hands
of a machine apparatus -- by the public perception that only a
small, unpopular group (that is often blamed for their own troubles)
will be affected by each new measure, because
the rest of us can afford to go along with it.

Hell, these days when a driver runs over someone without papers on him,
the driver gets treated and the person who got run over will have to
prove citizenship and insurance because he has "no identification".

Doesn't anyone remember that the word-bond of a citizen is the
basis for Anglo-Saxon common law? I am who I say I am, the
burden is on the government to prove I am not. What should
the evidentiary requirements be when I tell someone my name
and address? Much less than for a prosecutor. That is how
our traditional (pre-decline of the Republic) legal system worked.

[LanternWaste]

193. As per the ACLU concern letter about the GA law...

As per the ACLU concern letter about the GA law...

1. The racially disparate transportation barriers created by the ID requirements.
2. Lower levels of literacy among African Americans in Georgia, which create a disparate impact because absentee balloting inherently disenfranchises more African Americans. For example, the six counties in Georgia with the highest percentage of their voting age population at the lowest literacy levels also have African American populations above 55 percent.
3. The racially disparate impact of the economic obstacles to obtain photo identification stemming from the cost of certain documentation, including certified copies of birth certificates, as well as the cost of taking time off work and traveling to obtain photo ID.
4. African-American voters rely more heavily on the use of signed and sworn voter affidavits to prove their identity (which are eliminated under S.B. 84) instead of photo identification.

[Leopolds Ghost]

121. The only way this would be "fair" would require EVERYONE to get a NEW, special card

Specifically to allow them to vote.

Then hear the complaints start from people who think it's
no big deal for other, po folks, but TOTALLY OUTRAGEOUS
to require THEM to get some new card to vote.

See. here. My license. I am a HOME OWNER, GODDAMNIT!
I PAY PROPERTY TAX! I OWN A CAR! I AM NOT ONE OF THOSE
DEADBEATS! Sure, they may need a citizenship card but I
already have one -- my DRIVERS LICENSE THAT PROVES I CAN DRIVE!

No... sorry buddy. Get in the line for a new Voter ID like everyone else.

No, you don't get to butt in front of that homeless guy just because

you "already have the right to vote"

because you "pay property tax and they don't."

Security!!! I've got 50 angry "homeowners" here!!!

Not just people who don't "already have" a drivers license.

As if a drivers license entitles one to vote, but proof of residency doesn't.

I mean, the state of Georgia and Indiana is permitting drivers licenses
to count as proof of citizenship, but people who don't drive have to get a special card, specially for people who don't meet the standards of first class property ownership of a car and a house, to allow them to vote like they did in the old days.

Separate but equal.

Who cares if you have to pay money to get it?

It is illegal and unethical. A badge of shame.

How many people have been denied jobs because they didn't drive? I have.
And I'm white.

And then, of course, if you DID require EVERYONE to get it,

Only THEN would the apathetic Dem majority wake up and say

"that's fascism".

Because a national non-drivers-license ID for all "registered"
citizens is almost as bad as a national ID that segregates drivers
and non-drivers into two separate lines. Guess which one is
more politically acceptable to the masses? The plan that makes
them think they already have first class citizenship rights when
they passed Drivers Ed.

[candymarl]

128. Yeah it's starting

I got my "make sure you have the proper ID" letter today. Gee, I've only voted in every election since I've been in Georgia. Before this year, no questions asked. Showed up, had ID, voted. I'm pretty sure I'm me.

[B Calm]

133. I think they do better if they looked into election fraud before blaming the voters!

[ileus]

138. Should you be able to vote anywhere and mutiple times.

Without any ID or verification of address how do you keep people form voting in 15 different districts? What’s to keep a person that has no legal right to vote in American elections from voting once much less 100 times? I live near the border of WV should I be able to cross over and vote in their elections if I so desire? Just because it’s perceived we get the advantage from non-Americans, felons, and inner city homeless could vote multiple times doesn’t make it right for them to do so does it? I really don’t get the problem with people voting within their proper district and assuring they only vote one time.

[wuushew]

142. Do you know of anyone who would find recreation or profit in such an activity?

and would any such gain be in proportion to effort expended?

[MH1]

147. Voting fraudulently is a felony in most places, I believe. Most people would want to avoid that.

It doesn't require photo id to enforce laws against impersonating another voter.

Btw, I am an election inspector for my precinct and am reporting how it works in my county.

In my county, voting precincts are small enough that there are very few people who walk through the door, that aren't personally known by someone either on the election board or a poll watcher.

Of the few registered voters who are unknown to any worker at the poll, if someone wanted to impersonate one of those folks, they'd have to a) be pretty sure the person wasn't going to show up; and b) look about the same age, because the inspector looks at the birth date printed in the poll book to make sure they are having "Charlie Jones" sign on the blank for the 26-year-old Charlie, not the 75-year-old Charlie.

As for a), if you're thinking of bringing up "voting the cemeteries", that's a lot harder to do now that PA updates the voter registry from death certificate information.

I hope that answers your question.

[meow2u3]

164. We Dems can have a little fun with the voter ID laws

For instance, we can go into heavily Repuke, "Christian" polling spots, assume their IDs are fake and dare them to prove they're not. Demand they provide thumbprints; three credit cards with their numbers, expiration dates, and the 3- or 4-digit security code; and that they're not currently, or have previously been in, an intimate relationship with and close relative. They also have to show they have a full set of teeth -- dentures don't count, unless you're over 55. :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[proud2BlibKansan]

165. How often does that happen?

I live in a bi-state area too and it's not a problem here.

[candymarl]

169. First of all homeless people don't usually have cars.

They are not going to walk miles just to vote multiple times. They're too worried about not starving to death to hatch any voter fraud schemes. Felons have the right to vote in some states when their time is served. If that's not true in a particular state then it is the state's responsibility to keep those records.

The biggest problem is with the voting machines, not the voters. I watched a Diebold machine flip ALL of my votes in 2004. I had to call the election worker for help. I'm still not sure whom I voted for. No paper trail you see.

Why do the poor and illegals get blamed for everything? They have neither the money nor the power to game the system. The government and corporate America do.

I grew up poor in the inner city. NOBODY I knew cheated when they voted. The poor, those who have been imprisoned, illegals(they do anything to stay below the radar for the most part), are easy targets. But they don't write the laws. Neither do they have the power to enforce them. That's our representatives jobs. It's why we elect them.

Every state I've ever voted in required some form of ID. It's nothing new. The neocons are trying to convince people that there's a secret cabal of poor, felon, illegals just waiting to steal elections. That idea would be funny If it weren't so sad.

[proud2BlibKansan]

173. My state doesn't require ID to vote

[lonestarnot]

149. They made me go home and get something with my address on it!

D.L. not enough. I never miss any election, ever and this is the shit I get for exercising my right as a fucking American! :patriot:

[Divine Discontent]

168. they're really out to cause probs this time with minorities voting

more than normal. they're making so many rules and forcing the promise of having your voice heard not be so certain anymore.

we've gotta stand up to this bullshit.

[lonestarnot]

184. Yeah it was my hispanic last name.

[Divine Discontent]

187. interesting indeed n/t

[ordinaryaveragegirl]

174. Disenfranchisement at its worst, IMHO

Indiana would make the voting problems of Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004 look like a cake walk. I hope there's a huge outcry to stop this in its tracks...there should be.

[Brewman_Jax]

183. No evidence of voter fraud

but, like most repub positions, requires a solution to a non-existent problem in order to disenfranchise those that don't vote republican. On the other side, there's evidence of vote recording/counting fraud, but there's no push to fix an actual problem. :shrug:

[Chango]

186. Another reason it's illegal

Consider that half the voters in California are voting by mail this year and will not be asked for a photo I.D. Thus the I.D. requirement at the polls - but not the mail - is a double standard. You can't have two unequal standards, or two classes of voters.