Not to Start a 'Jesuitical Argument' but There Were 50.87M Self-Reported Catholics in 2001...

[CorpGovActivist]

... according to the http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/">Census Bureau.

The http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/tables/08s0074.pdf">one-page PDF is an interesting read.

For the remainder of January, here are the primaries.

January 15: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan#Religion">Michigan (23% Catholic)

January 19: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada#Religion">Nevada (44%)

January 26: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_carolina#Religion">South Carolina (7%)

January 29: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida#Religion">Florida (26%)

**********************************************************

Then comes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Duper_Tuesday">Super Duper Tuesday.

Tomorrow night's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_presidential_debates%2C_2008#January_15.2C_2008_-_Las_Vegas.2C_Nevada">debate in Vegas could well produce some fireworks on this issue.

MSNBC has a link that allows viewers to http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22574335/">suggest a question for one or more of the candidates.

- Dave

P.S. Edited to add: Tim Russert - on the receiving end of Senator Clinton's quip about a "http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22jesuitical+argument%22+hillary">Jesuitical Argument" - will be at tomorrow night's debate.

[rodeodance]

1. I know lots of Catholics who will NOT vote for Dem cause of abortion issue

[wuushew]

2. Well its too bad that they suck that way

Please ask them to at least push the Republican party towards more progressive economic policies by voting in primaries.

[LostinVA]

3. Most Catholics I know are Dems

NJ and Massachusetts are probably the most Catholic states and the most liberal ones.

[CorpGovActivist]

4. How Do You Think This Plays in Louisiana? n/t

[RuleOfNah]

39. Why so so many wedgies?

It makes one wonder...

[CorpGovActivist]

41. I Want a Progressive Dem in the White House...

... and form follows function.

- Dave

[RuleOfNah]

42. I don't believe DINOs wil change course.

Behavior reveals motive.

[CorpGovActivist]

47. Ignorance Misunderstands Motive...

... and should stick to Clue.

- Dave

[RuleOfNah]

51. Now now.

Cover can be so fragile. ;)

[CorpGovActivist]

52. Oh, Ignorance Is Curable...

... with a little reading, and Clue players often graduate to chess.

- Dave

[RuleOfNah]

53. All hat, no cattle.

[CorpGovActivist]

61. You're Absolutely Right n/t

[Leopolds Ghost]

65. Louisiana Catholics don't strike me as the "Jesuitical type".

I could be wrong though.

[Ganja Ninja]

5. Yup. My family is catholic and they vote Democrat.

Probably always have and always will. The Dobson crowd is a minority in the catholic community.

[CorpGovActivist]

11. But How Would Moral Orel Vote? (Love Your Avatar) n/t

[nonconformist]

14. Ditto. My family is Catholic and are die-hard Dems for life. nt

[NewJeffCT]

26. I think CT and RI are the "most" catholic by percentage

last time I checked. But, I know what you mean. All four (with NJ & Mass) are blue states.

[LostinVA]

30. And they're all good on gay rights

[NewJeffCT]

31. Other than Mass

not quite good enough - yet.

[LostinVA]

34. Oddly enough -- even though Mass has gay marriage

They don't recognize it from other states/countries. NJ is the only state to do that. If Haruka and I went to Massachusetts, our marriage wouldn't be recognized, but if someone from MA came here, the marriage would be recognized.

[NewJeffCT]

40. hopefully, that will change in Mass, and also

eventually CT, VT, RI and elsewhere.

[CorpGovActivist]

43. !

[calico1]

19. That is really only the very devout ones and

even among those there are many who disagree with the Church's stand on abortion and birth control.

A am Catholic (not a good one, lol) and I will vote for the Democratic candidate.

[defendandprotect]

22. Just as many Catholic women have had abortions as any other women . . .

[Der Blaue Engel]

23. We should always pander to the lowest common denominator

This includes homophobes, racists, anti-science fundies, and just plain stupid people.

[LibDemAlways]

6. Nevada is 44% Catholic? Where did that statistic come from?

Every reference I can find has the Catholic population of Nevada at around 24%.

[CorpGovActivist]

9. See the Links for Each State n/t

[LibDemAlways]

17. I did, and the link directed me to Wikipedia and a

graph with no citation. Here's a link to where I found my info.
http://www.beliefnet.com/politics/religiousaffiliation.html

[CorpGovActivist]

44. Did You Look to See If There Was Sourcing...

... for the demographic data at the end of the Wikis?

- Dave

[LibDemAlways]

58. There is no source. Just "citation needed."

[NoPasaran]

7. Are you peddling the notion that "Jesuitical Argument" is some kind of anti-Catholic slur?

The campaign to discern some kind of sinister subtext in everything that Clinton says is really getting creative. I'm sure that if HRC mentioned she had watched Nip/Tuck DU would erupt with outrage over her new anti-Asian bias.

[CorpGovActivist]

8. Did You Watch the Segment on MTP and Make up Your Own Mind? n/t

[wuushew]

10. Well the word certainly was not a compliment in the context she used

Jesuit



Main Entry: Je·su·it
Pronunciation: \ˈje-zü-ət, -zhü- also -zyü-\
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin Jesuita, from Late Latin Jesus
Date: 1548
1 : a member of the Roman Catholic Society of Jesus founded by St. Ignatius Loyola in 1534 and devoted to missionary and educational work
2 : one given to intrigue or equivocation

[CorpGovActivist]

15. Scientia...

... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_is_Power">potentia est.

:toast:

- Dave

[MonkeyFunk]

13. LOL

that's what I was wondering. Well, if "Fairy tale" is racist, I guess "jesuitical argument" can be anti-Catholic.

[goodgd_yall]

37. Or was it supposed to be too pro-catholic?

I'm not getting it.

[CorpGovActivist]

45. It's Simple, Really: Why Did She Use That Word in Particular? n/t

[goodgd_yall]

60. I'm not understanding what you're suggesting

if anything.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. I used to be one of those.

"...They tried to make me go to Catholic school, too. I lasted a very short time. When the penguin came after me with a ruler, I was out of there." Frank Zappa

[CorpGovActivist]

20. Yeah, I Don't Think I Would've Lasted Either! n/t

[samplegirl]

16. Catholicism is one of the most liberal Religions

going. Didn't take the Catholic's long to turn against the pope when the birth control pill was first introduced. Most of the Catholic priests that I know are very Liberal Democrats.

[CorpGovActivist]

18. In the Context of the Primaries, How Do You Think Most React to the Comment Referenced in the OP?nt

[defendandprotect]

24. Yes -- but the hierarchy which controls the church and its $$$ is hardly "liberal" ---

in fact they still have the office open which ran the Crusades . . . Infada?

And STILL they do not acknowledge the full personhood of females as they acknowledge the full personhood of males ---

i.e., no females allowed in this clubhouse!!!

PLUS. .. still a very authoritarian church in its dictates and raised a coup on Vatican II to try to knock that out!!!

[goodgd_yall]

35. Some of the most liberal voters

are/were Catholics. The religion can have the capacity to foster an awareness of social injustice and the need to correct it.

[LanternWaste]

21. Sounds as benign as the term "apologia argument"...

Jesuitical Argument? Sounds as benign as the term "apologia argument"... As a matter of fact, with the analytical reputation of the Jesuit priests, I'd take it as a compliment were it directed at me.

But, insults are odd in that they can be found anywhere if you look hard enough... even in places where they don't exists.

[CorpGovActivist]

28. I Guess Only Russert Knows...

... how he took it.

- Dave

[LanternWaste]

38. Has he (Russert) stated how he took it?

Has he (Russert) stated how he took it? If not, who are we to presuppose if it is indeed an insult? If not, why continue the meme?

[CorpGovActivist]

48. Did You Watch the Show? n/t

[LanternWaste]

54. Oh for God's sake... Yes.

Oh for God's sake... Yes. I watched it. Jesus you act pedantic sometimes.

Maybe you could reply with an actual point rather than some passive aggressive posturing in your opposition to whateverthehell candidate you hate this week ...

[CorpGovActivist]

63. I Didn't Want to Assume...Some Have Indicated They Haven't...

... given that you watched, did you detect anything amiss with Russert's body language after the quip?

- Dave

[mmonk]

25. Catholics:

JFK, RFK, RFK Jr., Dennis Kucinich, Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, yours truly,.....

Beware of the broad brush Dave, it is a fickle tool.

[CorpGovActivist]

50. No Doubt, and No Argument...

... but the question remains: allowing that any given community is usually not kneejerk monolithic in its thinking, was the choice of words a baited barb for Russert, and - if so - will *some* Catholics (and non) view it negatively?

- Dave

[mmonk]

55. What were the exact words used?

[CorpGovActivist]

66. Here Ya Go...

... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2675848&mesg_id=2675848">Please note that the Netcast and the transcript are available in the P.S.

- Dave

[mmonk]

68. As someone brought up Catholic, I'll have to be honest with you.

I have no idea what he means.

[LanternWaste]

56. Then you yourself are unaware of whether it was an insult or not

"was the choice of words a baited barb for Russert..."

Then you yourself are unaware of whether it was an insult or not. In your quest for the truth, have you asked (Ohh... I dunno) Russert?

Have you tried? Or have you simply continued to post variations on a meme?

[CorpGovActivist]

67. In My Quest for the Truth...

... I like to hear how others perceived it.

I would really like to hear Russert ask her to clarify what she meant by it, especially as the IWR vote is such an important factor for primary voters this year.

- Dave

[Marie26]

27. OMG, Hillary hates Catholics?!?!

You're really reaching here.

[CorpGovActivist]

49. She Reached into Her Reservoir of Words, and Grabbed "Jesuitical"...

... to throw at Russert.

I don't think that's reaching.

- Dave

[LanternWaste]

57. Yes. It is.

"I don't think that's reaching."

Yes. It is. As a matter of fact, it's at the point now where you're simply advertising the fact that you've found an insult in a place where none exists.

[Marie26]

62. This is the best you can come up with?

Jeez, at least find a sinister facial expression or something. I'm a Catholic & totally unoffended by this comment. "Jesuitical argument" refers to an overly legalistic or esoteric argument. What's more troubling is that she apparently considers analysis of her Iraq War vote to be a useless endeavor- IMO that's where you should aim the smears.

[CorpGovActivist]

64. But I Am Nothing If Not Obedient to What Hillary Tells Me...

... and to focus on the issue she deflected from would leave me wide open to being labled as a Jesuitical Arguer.

QED

- Dave

[juno jones]

29. Strangely enough as a pagan

I find that not only are catholics the most tolerant to us (in my own experience) but are most likely to join in with us at events. Must be all the saints, makes it easier to think in plurals. The ones I'm closest to right now call ol' Ratty the 'Nazi pope'.

[LostinVA]

32. Well -- Catholicism has incorporated so many pagan elements

And a lot of the Druids I know are ex-Catholics.

[CorpGovActivist]

46. A Favorite Elective (on Celtic Culture) Explored Pagan Objects Found in Altars...

... in http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=altar+ireland+druids">Ireland and elsewhere.

The fertility gods were what many were actually praying to the first few generations, unbeknownst to the priests.

- Dave

[goodgd_yall]

36. I'd be one of them

I don't feel I can properly still call myself Catholic, but I have a devotion to a few saints and love the BVM. I've practiced wicca too.

[goodgd_yall]

33. WTF?

Soooo?

[rug]

59. I don't know a single Catholic who would vote to imprison a woman fot having an abortion

even though abortion is opposed on religious grounds.

Roe v. Wade is as much about criminal law as it is about privacy.