"round them up and send them back to mexico"

[angrycarpenter]

Whenever I hear this my blood turn cold. Do they really want this to happen in this country?

Do they want our police agencies to pull up in large latino neighborhoods and try to herd thousands into paddy wagons? It would not be pretty. There would be resistance and the police would be vastly out numbered.

Do they want to deport US citizens? Many immigrants have US born children with the same rights as the bigots who want them to "get out of my country".

They want to treat them as felons. Did these people get together and work up a plan to undermine the economy? No they came here to have a safer life for their children. There is no criminal intent there. If the legal way in was fair they would come here legally.

Who will mow your grass, mop your floors, build your exclusive housing developments, watch your children, wash your humvee, pave the road it rides on. change your diaper when you get old, and dig your grave when you die?

Who do they think will do all this rounding up if it ever happens? The police know that it would be as risky as taking away handguns in Texas. The army maybe? Many soldiers are latino and they will not capture grandmas and little children to be taken away.

To capture and detain 12 million people would cost billions. More than the Iraq war I would guess. But the human cost would be greater. Sending all of these people away with nothing but the clothes on their back would be similar to making thousands of indians walk to Oklahoma. What about the possessions they would be forced to leave behind? Seized by the government and resold would be my guess.

Now assume it has been done. There are 12 million pissed-off people on the other side of the border with no money, food, or a place to live. What happens then. Will they attempt to re enter in mass? Will our national guard have to repel them by force? Bet mr. conservative likes the thought of that.

I am a life long carpenter. The flood of cheap mexican labor has had a serious effect on my wages. But I do not blame them for coming here. If I could sneak into Canada and make 50 times the money I do now I would go. I blame the businesses who have made this a reality. I blame the insurance companies who have made it impossible to pay a working American a decent wage. In other words I blame the business community at large for this mess. Why not punish the greedheads who sold us out for a hand full of cash.If they cared about America so much why did they put so many out of work to hire these wage slaves with no rights and no say? I think that question answers itself.

500th post. Thank you all for putting up with me.

:patriot:

[cutlassmama]

1. The government was keen on open borders, even after 9/11 because

we were buying oil from Mexico. Now that their fields are running low, there is talk of deportation.

[muntrv]

2. Many border patrol agents are also of Mexican descent.

[Raine]

3. Congrats on number 500!

:thumbsup:

[blondeatlast]

4. Word, my friend! That's the way to mark a landmark post. K&R

:applause:

[MedleyMisty]

5. When I was in elementary school

my mother was talking about how the people she worked with thought like that - she worked in a sock factory and so yeah, it did seem as if "they're comin' up here and takin' our jobs".

I said that all the people who said stuff like that should be rounded up and sent somewhere else. At first she thought I meant the immigrants and said, "Yeah, right." I corrected her.

She's much more tolerant now after having raised me. :) I had a good influence on her. Of course, I still struggle with dehumanizing prejudiced people just as much as they dehumanize the groups that they hate.

I don't know why people don't want to put blame where it belongs - maybe somehow it's easier for them to place it on some Other than on people they see as their superiors? Or maybe they just really don't understand how it's the fault of corporations?

[NNN0LHI]

6. My Republican parents say it all the time

It used to be the black people they wanted to send back to Africa. When they finish with the Mexicans they will get back to that I am sure.

Don

[EFerrari]

7. Congratulations.

:toast:

[gaspee]

8. I'm with you

But we are minority in this country, including here on DU. You might or might not be surprised at the anti-immigrant mentality even here on DU.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

9. It's gotten better. I remember some 300 plus posts threads arguing about

"them" vs. "us" and that rancor seems to have died down, thankfully. I think we lost some posters over that who turned out to be Lou Dobbs lite.

However, the powers that be need us to pitted against each other, because if middle class Americans joined with 12 million immigrants to demand fair pay and citizen representation, well, the powers that be would be no more.

Imagine our collective power, for instance with boycotts, when you're talking millions of people.

But, no, with the hate mongers stirring, stirring, stirring the pot, we're stuck with the BS, only a little less so. MKJ

[angrycarpenter]

10. It's hard to be sympathetic when you just lost your job.

I know. I also know that many are here just to stir things up and gather ammunition for that place they really post.

[jody]

11. I have many friends of Hispanic origin that agree "round them up and send them back to mexico". n/t

[angrycarpenter]

12. do they golf at the same country club you do? nt

[jody]

13. No, they eat at the same fast food pit I do. n/t

[angrycarpenter]

14. sorry for the assumption

But do you really want to put our country through the not farfetched nightmare scenario I have described?

[jody]

15. One can dream up special case scenarios pro and con. I have friends who are illegal aliens and

others who are legal immigrants. I also have friends whose ancestors came over on the Mayflower and some who entered last year.

I believe we should enforce our immigration laws and encourage nations from where illegal aliens came to implement economic programs that reduce the pressure to enter the U.S. illegally just to feed their families back home.

If I were in their shoes, I would be the first in line to sneak across our border. On the other hand, I realize we cannot accept everyone from every nation.

Given that fact, we must enforce our laws re immigration.

[angrycarpenter]

17. I am in agreement there

my post was concerning the phrase "rounding them up" and what it would mean if we as a nation attempted such thing. It is about treating people as pests to be dealt with rather than thinking, feeling individuals. It's good to enforce our laws and protect our border. Its not good to load millions of people into cattle cars and ship them out of the country as if they were nothing.

[jody]

18. I agree with using humane methods. I took "round them up" as a figure of speech, not literally. n/t

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

22. I've been told by my friends of Mexican origin that they're Mexican, not Hispanic.

And, my friends of Mexican origin are tired of being dissed. MKJ

[jody]

26. That's my experience also from my friends. n/t

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

28. Good for them. They also hate Tancredo with an understandable passion.

MKJ

[matcom]

16. I'll be in Mexico in 26 days

and I have a feeling I'll have a hard time coming back to this racist land o' mine

[kelligesq]

19. "Did these people get together and work up a plan" No Pres Fox & Calderone did

to get rid of their poor who might bring revolution to their country, demanding decent housing and care in their own country.

When the country of Mexico prints up maps of where to cross over into the United States, and distributes them, its planned.

When Calderone says "Wheverer there's a Mexican it is Mexico - it's planned.

So since they're being so loose with borders, how is it that Fox and Calderone dont let people into Mexico to stay through their southern border?

Tell you what. You go to Germany and tell them wherever there's a Mexican, its Mexico. Let's see what happens to you.

Who will do the landscaping and cleaning?

The same people who didnt have to compete for those jobs at lower rates, before the invasion of the illegals.

Their children are American citizens? Well there is a question about that, which has not been settled in the Courts yet.

But if the children are American citizens it's between the paents and the children whether they go back to Mexico with the parents or stay in America.

Yes. They snuck in avoiding the list to enter legally, jumping ahead of millions of people on waiting lists to come here legally.

Not exactly fair.

Furthermore, they haven't helped the economy -- their economy is an underground economy and their earnings are sent back to Mexico. Their presence has taxed hospitals into closing because of course they dont buy insurance, their presence
forces Americans taxes up to pay for their food stamps, their free health programs, their free medicine, and various other free programs meant for poor Americans that they now have taken advantage of.

Ship them home.

Yes.

[angrycarpenter]

20. yes, let's punish the most helpless population we have seen in decades

Hey, why don't we give them all a punch in the face before they go. Do you have that much hate for these people? How about we just herd them into camps and kill them in gas chambers? cheaper that way, and they won't sneak back.:sarcasm:

[Romulox]

21. If you had as much sympathy for poor people in Detroit or Cleveland, say, you'd be more convincing.

:hi:

[kelligesq]

24. Romulux you beat me to it, I was still typing when u got this up

:mad:

[angrycarpenter]

30. Poverty is what I care about the most.

And I have deep sympathy for any one put out of work by this mess(I am one myself). I live below the poverty line and I have not had a real raise in pay for 7 years).

I am saying that punishing the poor for being poor is wrong.

Punishing the immigrants and leaving business blameless for this mess would be the worst miscarriage of justice ever.

enforce our immigration laws and make new ones that make hiring an illegal so risky and expensive they will not do it. and the illegal will go home without having to round them up at gunpoint.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[matcom]

25. yeah, most Mexicans are 'dope runners'

:puke:

got news for you. MOST Mexicans are the hardest working people and the proudest I know. I can't WAIT to get down there next month and pump some $$ into the economy.

oh and want me to score you some good dope whilst i'm there?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[angrycarpenter]

32. That is because of our porous border

I never said that we should just fling the doors wide, far from it. Drug enforcment is our responsibility. You want to punish 12 million mostly decent people for our ravinous hunger for drugs?

[kelligesq]

36. I want this country and that country and people to follow THE LAW

no man (or woman) is above the law,

remember that one - we use to believe it until we got a lawless cheating dishonest wh resident

[matcom]

37. no man (or woman) deserves to live behind a FENCE

we are HUMAN

[angrycarpenter]

33. I was talking about America

and Mexicans in America. As to what I have done for the poor. I fed anyone who showed up at my door hungry for 15 years, I had 26 one night.

[pinto]

46. It might be worth noting that dope doesn't come 'on foot' over the borders

with people looking for work. It comes on trucks, boats and planes, in large part.

It's an unfortunate conflation of the border discussion when smugglers, terrorists and people looking for work are lumped into one broad framework.

Large scale meth, as in Quaalude, is stoppable at the original source - the handful of Indian and Chinese pharmacies that make the primary base as part of cold/sinus medication. They are unregulated, sell the product to middle men - and so it goes.

Meth does routinely get made locally, in small quantities. The limitations on OTC cold medications has been an attempt to stem small local supply for the base.

Heroin remains *big* business. As does coke.

Families and single guys sneaking over the border for work are another point entirely when talking about the drug trade.

I know it's a hot button issue, yet I really wish folks would get some perspective.

:hi:

[Ghost in the Machine]

35. I've worked in the squash, bean & tomato fields of Homestead & Florida City, Fla

and have personally witnessed, on the last of the picking season, these pickers come to the fields dressed in their nicest clothes, with no intention of working, and having their bags packed... soon afterwards, 5 or 6 busses from the dept of immigration show up, along with about 50 officers. They all just sit there, waiting to be processed and put on the bus for a free ride home. Don't tell me they don't have plans....

I've also worked as a framer and I've seen several independent contractors, including myself, lose out on building contracts because some crew would come in and pick up a slab, then the next thing you know they have 20 guys pouring out and throwing up a house in 2 or 3 days while you're taking a week or so with a 6 or 8 man crew. Next thing ya know... these guys have 3 or 4 crews in there doing the same thing. The developer is tickled because he's getting his development up quick and getting quick occupancy, but the building quality isn't as good. The guy running the crews isn't making a lot of money off of one house, but he makes up for it in volume.

On a good note though.. I also ran steel erection and commercial roofing crews, and i got to the point where I would ONLY hire mexicans. These guys work their asses off for you, no questions asked. Best damned bunch of guys I ever worked with, bar none. Thing is though, they were here legally. They also got paid well. They weren't slaving for near minimum wage wages. I hired know-nothing laborers in at $8/hr and experienced guys got anywhere from $10 to $15/hr, depending on experience. We worked out of town a lot and if I worked these guys for 8 hours, they begged for 10.. I worked them 10 and they begged for 12... after 12 hours, they were ready to go to the motel. I had a great time with these guys, and I miss the hell out of them. Though I've been out of the business for over 6 years now and have moved to a different state, I still keep in touch with some of them. I even had one, who went on to start his own company, call me and ask me if I wanted to come run a crew for him because he appreciated how I treated him and his fellow workers with respect when they worked for me.

There's good and bad in every race, color & nationality. I have nothing against immigration, but they should follow the rules, period. Illegal immigration can and does hurt us socially and economically. It's just a fact that some people are willing to overlook....


PEACE!

Ghost

[angrycarpenter]

38. I am too liberal I guess

It would be impossible for me to turn a hungry person away from my door. Much less throw them out like the trash. I have been affected more and more every year by this but I cannot bring myself to hate them or any other group of people. Making this a purely law enforcement problem is the same as making drugs purely a law enforcement problem. This problem will not go away without social and political solutions here and in mexico.

[kelligesq]

40. Carpenter= Mexico has no intention of working toward any other solution

then urging their poor to illegally cross over to America.

That's the problem.

And this country cannot economically, socially, labor, schooling handle the influx of 12 to 30 million people all at once. That's what's happened. It's good for the big companies who take advantage of these people, but not for labor and unions and the lower middle class of this country - it causes the Americans to lose jobs - and not be able to find any work becausae they work for $15 -16 an hour in order to support a family and live decently.

Our culture, yes , it does have three generations living together, grandparents, parents, children, but does not live with aunts, uncles, nephews nieces and neighbors in one house all working at $8 an hour and of necissity having to live so many people crowded together.

Often a basement apt for two is rented to one person, and then the wife arrives, and the parents , and brothers and sisters and uncles etc etc. all illegal. I know of one casae where unfortunately a cop lived across the street from where that occurred, he kept quiet through 4, 6, 7 people living in an apt for 2, but when it became 13 people he had enough and called the building inspector and reported it. Then all had to leave.

[angrycarpenter]

42. That's the way it is all over the world

decency takes a backseat to economic necessities. Have we too become so crowded that it is us or them? Is mexico so corrupt that it cannot be saved? If it is so then western civilization is dying and cannot be saved.

[kelligesq]

45. When the LAW is ignored western civilization is almost dead = thanks to junior.

.

[NOLALady]

41. You're too sensitive,

compassionate and kind.
The world needs more people like you.

[kelligesq]

39. Bravo Ghost. Nice to hear of your decency and the importance of legality to you.

I also have been helping a family of 7, 5 children - he;s just been turned down
for legal residency even though his mother who is a citizen put in his papers 4 years ago...worse yet he is caught in the subprime mess - and I'll be going to the bank with him next week to see what can be done...Countrywide got him good - his house is a little dump and they just raised him from 1500 to 1900 a month!

[Alcibiades]

43. Since when does enforcing the law equal hate?

This whole thing is a set-up, designed by the rich to get around the labor protections our grandparents fought for. We all agree that the real culprit are those who would exploit workers, so why be so quick to charge someone with hating, simply because they want to enforce the standards in our labor market that created the American middle class?

[kelligesq]

44. well said Al-the breaking of the labor unions & hard won benefitsn/t

.

[Aristus]

31. I salute you, angrycarpenter, for not losing your humanity in a difficult work situation.

:patriot:

We are all brothers; we need to remember that. You give me hope, sir.

[angrycarpenter]

34. Thank you

glad someone in this thread likes me.