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Fingerprints of Election Theft 2006 – Removing Exit Poll Bias from the Equation

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 08:05 PM
Original message
Fingerprints of Election Theft 2006 – Removing Exit Poll Bias from the Equation
Though election fraud has undoubtedly played a part in every national election since the founding of our country, it has probably never posed as much threat to our democracy in the past as it does today. I say that because of the enormous potential for massive election fraud posed by the computerization of our elections (using secret software code) and because of the evidence indicating that it was used in 2000 and 2004 to install and maintain in office the most disastrous Presidential administration in our nation’s history, and in 2002 and 2006 to help Republicans win seats in Congress.

Independent investigations by qualified security experts have shown electronic computerized voting to be wide open to systematic insider manipulation (See here, here and here). This fact has been acknowledged in the mainstream American press, and even in government reports. Yet those who suggest that purposeful manipulation and election theft may have occurred in at least some recent elections are ignored or ridiculed by our corporate news media.

In this post I’ll discuss a recent report by the Election Defense Alliance of an analysis of the 2006 mid-term U.S. House of Representative elections, which I co-authored with Jonathon Simon, Bruce O’Dell, and Josh Mitteldorf. This analysis goes beyond previous analyses of suspected election fraud in 2002, 2004, and 2006, by taking a hard look at the possibility of exit poll bias (sometimes referred to as “sampling bias”) and finding very strong evidence against that possibility. To put that analysis in context I first need to briefly summarize the pre-existing evidence of election fraud mediated by electronic voting machines in 2004 and 2006. But keep in mind that this is merely a brief summary. There is much more evidence for election fraud in recent elections than what I discuss in this post – such as what I’ve discussed here and here and here.


A BRIEF SUMMARY OF EVIDENCE FOR ELECTRONIC ELECTION FRAUD IN 2004 AND 2006Exit poll discrepancy in the 2004 Presidential election

The best known case of strongly suspected election theft was the 2004 presidential election, where exit polls showed a nation-wide victory margin of 2.6% for the Kerry/Edwards ticket, and yet the “official” vote count showed a nation-wide victory margin of 2.8% for George Bush – a discrepancy between the official vote count and the exit polls of 5.4%, which was the largest exit poll discrepancy (pollsters refer to this as a “red shift”) in a U.S. presidential election ever demonstrated. An even larger red shift was demonstrated in 2004 in Ohio, which gave the electoral victory to the Bush/Cheney ticket. The national exit poll discrepancy was so large that it had a statistical likelihood of occurring by chance of approximately one in a million.

Our corporate news media responded to this mostly by ignoring it. When they did respond they claimed simply that the red shift was explained by exit poll bias. In other words, the argument was that Bush voters must have been under-represented in the exit polls. Perhaps Bush voters just didn’t care to participate in the exit polls as much as the Kerry/Edwards voters.

Shortly after the U.S. presidential election, a similar episode occurred with the Ukrainian presidential election, which showed the Russian favored candidate winning the official vote count but the U.S. favored candidate winning the exit polls. A big deal was made out of this by the U.S. press and the Bush administration, and consequently the election results were overturned, and the Bush administration’s candidate, Victor Yushchenko, was installed as President. Yet with all its hand wringing over the exit poll discrepancy in the Ukraine, the U.S. corporate news media refused to consider the possibility that the U.S. presidential election was similarly stolen.

Exit poll discrepancy in the 2006 Congressional elections

Something very similar occurred in the 2006 Congressional elections. The official nation-wide result for House races on Election Day 2006 showed a Democratic margin over their Republican opponents of 7.6%. Comparing that to a nationwide exit poll democratic margin of 11.5%, the difference between the official count and the results predicted by the exit polls was nearly 4%, just a little bit less than the red shift of 5.4% in the 2004 Presidential election.

The 4% red shift in the 2006 mid-terms – if that represents election fraud – was not nearly enough for Republicans to maintain control of either the House or the Senate. But in 2004, it would have been enough to throw the 2004 Presidential election to George Bush – in the nation-wide popular vote, as well as in Ohio, where Bush “won” his electoral vote victory. As described by Jonathon Simon in “Landslide Denied”, the 2006 exit poll discrepancy was far beyond the margin of statistical error. And, it is also important to note that the calculated red shift when comparing official 2006 House results with exit polls is almost identical to the calculated red shift when comparing official House results with pre-election polls.

If the red shift demonstrated in the 2006 mid-terms was due to election fraud, that fraud was obviously not enough to prevent the Democrats from taking control of both the Senate and the House. But it certainly was enough to deny the Democrats a large number of additional House seats that would have constituted a landslide of much greater proportions than what the official election results indicated. Yet this was met with even more silence from our corporate news media than was the case in 2004. Presumably this was just another case of exit poll bias, where Democrats were more likely than Republicans to participate in exit polls.

Now let’s take a look at the recent Election Defense Alliance study:


FINGERPRINTS OF ELECTION THEFT: WERE COMPETITIVE CONTESTS TARGETED?

There is only one explanation other than election fraud that can possibly explain the huge red shifts found in both the 2004 U.S. Presidential election and the 2006 U.S. House elections. That potential explanation is exit poll bias, as described above. After the Election Defense Alliance published “Landslide Denied” and once again was completely ignored by the U.S. corporate news media, they decided to attempt to put the issue of exit poll bias to rest by further analyzing the results of the 2006 exit polls, this time with primary emphasis on attempting to rule out the possibility of exit poll bias.


Designing an analysis to rule out exit poll bias

The concept was pretty simple. If exit poll bias explains why Democrats have much better results with exit polls than they do with official election results, that means that Republican voters are less likely to participate in exit polls than are Democrats.

So, to eliminate exit poll bias, the following study design was chosen: First, several counties were chosen where pre-election polls demonstrated at least one “major contest” to be “competitive” (meaning within 10 percentage points) and at least one major contest to be “non-competitive” (meaning a difference of 10 percentage points or greater). A “major contest” was considered to be the elections for U.S. House, U.S. Senate, and Governor. So, counties where at least one of those races was “competitive” and at least one was “non-competitive” were chosen for this analysis.

If the previously demonstrated red shift was due to election fraud, it makes sense that election fraud would have been more likely to occur in “competitive” races. Why commit a federal crime for an election that isn’t even competitive? So, this study was designed to compare competitive races versus non-competitive races in the same counties. If the red shifts are greater in competitive than in non-competitive races, that would be additional and sound evidence of election fraud.

So, why would this study design eliminate exit poll bias? That’s very simple: If the study demonstrates larger red shifts in competitive than in non-competitive races, that could not possibly be explained by exit poll bias. Why not? Because the exact same voters are statistically evaluated for each of the comparisons between the competitive and the non-competitive races. Nobody can explain those results away by theorizing that Democrats are more likely to participate in the exit polls than Republicans because the exact same voters are analyzed for each comparison. In other words, even if it was true that Democrats are more likely to participate in the exit polls than Republicans, that still wouldn’t explain why competitive races demonstrate a larger red shift than non-competitive races.


Study results

As we expected, the results showed much larger red shifts in the competitive races than in the non-competitive races. In the competitive races the average red shift was 3.6%, whereas in the non-competitive races the average shift was 1.7%, but it was actually in the other direction (we call that a “blue shift”). Thus, the difference in red shift between competitive and non-competitive races was 5.3%.

The results were analyzed statistically using three different statistical tests: linear regression; Student paired t-test; and, Student non-paired t-test. In each case the differences between the competitive and the non-competitive races were highly statistically significant – virtually ruling out the possibility that the results could have occurred by chance.

The analysis was actually somewhat more complicated than what I’ve described here, as I’ve simplified the issues a little bit to make this post easier to read. If you’re interested in more details you can read them here.

Here is a chart that lists the results by County:


Election Defense Alliance discussion of the meaning of the results

Here are excerpts from the report that discuss the meaning of these results:

We have already discussed the evidence for an aggregate mistabulation of votes in 2006 of a magnitude sufficient to alter the outcome of dozens of federal and statewide elections. The aggregate evidence is based on the quasi-official exit polls conducted by Edison Research and Mitofsky International (‘Edison/Mitofsky’) for the media consortium known as the National Election Pool (‘NEP’).

Yet whenever a direct comparison between poll results and official vote counts is made and a discrepancy is noted, it is, inexplicably, always the polls (in other words, “exit poll bias”) that the media chorus hastens to discount and dismiss. Demonstrating the lax standards of computer security and the inadequate procedural safeguards universally applied to our electronic voting systems seems to make no impression. The present study was undertaken because we anticipated – correctly, as it turned out – that direct poll-vote comparisons, if they appeared to indicate outcome-determinative mistabulation, would likely face hasty dismissal, predictably on the grounds of sample bias (in other words, exit poll bias). We therefore sought a methodology that would serve to eliminate any effect of sampling bias from the equation.


Conclusions of the Election Defense Alliance

And here are excerpts from the conclusions:

The result shines a powerful triple beam into the dark corner of secret electronic vote-counting in American elections. First, it detects a clear pattern indicating a wholesale shift in tallied votes. This is consistent with our study of aggregate vote shifting presented in Landslide Denied. Second, it identifies the overall direction of the shift: in favor of Republican candidates, once again corroborating our aggregate findings in Landslide Denied. Third, it confirms the common-sense notion that any group with the will and ability to secretly manipulate vote tabulation would likely focus their efforts on changing the outcomes of close contests, where the power of electronic vote-shifting would be maximized through selective targeting, while at the same time minimizing the size of the aggregate shift – and the corresponding risk of discovery.

We restate here the concluding sentences of Landslide Denied, as these latest findings only serve to increase the urgency of our warning:

‘The vulnerability is manifest; the stakes are enormous; the incentive is obvious; the evidence is strong and persistent. Any system so clearly at risk of interference and gross manipulation cannot and must not be trusted to tally the votes in any future elections.’

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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. First Rec! I'll read later, after pizza. It will be good, I'm sure!
And when is your book being published? :)
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Thank you puebloknot -- I'm afraid that
I may have to wait 7 years, that is until I retire, to write another book.

And I'd like to clarify something about my post, as I see a major typo that may cause some confusion. The first major heading and subheading in the post are stuck together. It should read:


A BRIEF SUMMARY OF EVIDENCE FOR ELECTRONIC ELECTION FRAUD IN 2004 AND 2006

Exit poll discrepancy in the 2004 Presidential election

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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. My blood is boiling again.
When will we get some politicians with the guts to address this issue?
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Very nice work. Thank you.
I hope this gets spread far and wide.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Thank you -- I hope so too
This information needs wide distribution, and there needs to be a national discussion on this whole issue of electronic voting. It is unconscionable that in a so-called "democracy" we have electronic voting done by secret software, with no means of ascertaining whether or not the vote count is accurate.
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FREEWILL56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. I agree with you it is very nice work, but one can draw one other result
from all of this: It is mathematically against all odds that each time a swing would happen that it would swing in favor of 1 party only unless it is being fixed. This is akin to a coin toss always coming up tails 100% of the time when it should come up heads 50% of the time.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. Yes, that's the main point
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smokey nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R!!!!
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mojowork_n Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
4. Excellent work. I have your Journal bookmarked.
You really caught my attention with the post a month ago that included the Tom Feeney/Ray Lemme story. I missed it on Bradblog.

I think a lot of people are suspicious of conspiracies, on the basis of the 'how would you hide it, how many people would you have to buy off/dispose of?' factor.



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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
32. The deaths of Raymond Lemme and Margie Schoedinger
Another couple of deaths that IMO should have received a lot more attention than they did:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5567680&mesg_id=5567680
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. another WOW here
still have to finish reading
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sss1977 Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. Very interesting stuff
Thanks!
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Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
7. K&R!!!
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
8. K & R
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
11. “It’s not about if you win or loose, it’s how you play the game”.
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 10:28 AM by Larry Ogg
I wrote this as part of a reply to another poster in you last thread, but I think the first part will compliment this awesome thread as well…

First posted http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2676101&mesg_id=2695962 "> here, please do go back and read the whole thing – as well as the conversation so as to put in proper perspective…

I’m sure you have heard the saying, “It’s not about if you win or loose, it’s how you play the game”. Yet still - it seems apparent and natural that people would think, if their guy is winning - the game is being played fair, and if their guy is loosing - the game is rigged; I guess you could call it selective discernment of right and wrong - yet for some the truth is bitter or sweet according to their character. So it is that we allow such a state to become a mitigating factor in our electoral process, ware the judges have become bias to the dictates of unfamiliar mortal masters, and the forth estate is now a trophy mounted high upon a wall of corporate greed, and now - by what new standard do we then call ourselves a Democracy, for the door is open to the most aesthetic cheats, and integrity must compete in a world of buyer beware as justice becomes everything but fair… <sip>


K&R Dr. Dale


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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. Well, we try not to base our assessment of election integrity on whether our candidate wins or loses
With respect to the 2004 election there was a great amount of evidence of election fraud, much of which I've linked to in the OP, and much not linked to in this OP, and much of it was not related to the exit poll discrepancy at all.

Of course the main reason for pushing this so much is that our elections are still not transparent. We're supposed to rely on machines that include secret "proprietary" software to count our votes, with no way of verifying the vote count. That has to be changed, and I would hope that Republicans would join in that effort as well.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
12. Excellent analysis, as always. Would it be possible to see the analysis for all TN counties?
As you know, only Tennessee elected a new Republican Senator in 2006, whereas all other open Senatorial races went to Democrats. Given how much opposition there was to Bob Corker (R) in east Tennessee (traditionally a Rethug stronghold here), we expected Ford to win. It would be great to be able to see this analysis for all TN counties (or for the state as a whole), so that detractors cannot accuse you of cherry-picking one TN county that confirmed your hypothesis. This would be very helpful now, as we are working for a VVPB bill in our legislature.

I hope OnTheOtherHand and Febble weigh in on this thread, as they have been the biggest proponents of the exit poll bias argument here on DU. I think I will write them and ask that they chime in here.

Thanks again for your efforts to demonstrate that the most obvious explanation (election fraud) trumps the corporate media explanation (shy Rethugs).
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. this is based on specially commissioned surveys
If you think there is something specifically skanky about the TN returns, we could try to look, although the pre-election polls already had turned against Ford.

I don't think this is going to stand up. In many ways it's a great research design, but I don't think the survey data will withstand critical scrutiny. Be really careful about tethering a VVPB bill to a Ford-won argument, or even seeming to, when there are so many other arguments for VVPB. (That's my quick reaction -- I have to focus on another state for a while!)
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. The Ford race doesn't enter the discussion here. We can talk about equipment ...
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 02:53 PM by Fly by night
... problems reported in over one-sixth of our counties in 2006, coupled with what is now known about vulnerabilities and misrepresentations that weren't known in early 2006 (including our own look at the Diebold central tabulator in Memphis/Shelby County).

Believe me, there's lots for us to say and we've been saying it for three years now. The question is: can we be heard? That's still up in the air here -- amazingly -- after all we know and after so many other states have already implemented reforms. Just what is it we're waiting for?
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. OK, that's fine
I mean, the part where you have plenty of solid arguments to make and you're making them.

The part where you don't get heard, that's frustrating as hell. I don't claim to know any Tennessee back story.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. Thank you Fly
I'm sorry, but we don't have the data for TN counties. EDA had a limited budget, and we only polled the counties that are listed in the chart in this OP.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. (gulp)
Tfc, I stumbled upon this report (which seemed to have been around for a while) while I was looking for something else. I wrote an analysis a little while ago and gave it to Febble to review.

I think your polling data are bad. It looks like the interviews were generic-format robocalls (unnamed candidates). The differentials between races are just plain too small -- AFAICT they don't jibe with anything we know about American politics. I think your result is an artifact.

That conclusion is also supported by analysis of all the candidate-specific surveys in the pollster.com database (or, more strictly, all the averages in the database). I see no sign there of discrepancies concentrated in competitive races.

I apologize for not giving you a heads-up immediately. Honestly, the whole thing just depresses me.

I can send you my draft in a little bit -- I bet I have your e-mail around here somewhere.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I don't understand your criticisms OTOH
1. "The differentials between races are just plain too small"
We used three different statistical tests to evaluate this, including linear regression and the paired t-test. As you know, those statistical tests take the differentials into account, and yet they still came up highly statistically significant: p=0.007 for the paired t-test and p=0.00002 for linear regression. So how could the differentials be "too small"?

2. "It looks like the interviews were generic format robocalls".
I don't see how generic format applies to this. Unlike pre-election polls, where candidates may say that they intend to vote for one Party, and then change their minds when they see the names, these were exit polls, and the subjects were asked who they voted for. Do you not consider Survey USA a legitimate polling firm?

3. "They don't jibe with anything we know about American politics".
I don't know what you mean by that.

4. "I think your result is an artifact. That conclusion is also supported by analysis of all the candidate-specific surveys in the pollster.com database (or, more strictly, all the averages in the database). I see no sign there of discrepancies concentrated in competitive races."
Again, we conducted statistical tests on these data. You see no sign of discrepancies concentrated in competitive races -- but then, why do the results indicate a very small probability of obtaining these results by chance. Do you believe that the statistical methods we used were inappropriate?


The bottom line is that we used three different statistical tests that all pretty much ruled out chance as an explanation for these results. Sampling bias is pretty much ruled out by the fact that we used the exact same subject sample for the competitive and non-competitive races. So, it seems to me that if someone objects to our interpretation they should have an alternative interpretation to counteract it.

My e-mail address has changed because we had a fire in our house several months ago, and I lost my computer and we were living in a hotel for several months. I'll pm you later, or you can pm me. Gotta run now.



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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. it's a data problem, not a statistical problem
I imagine that the die was cast when the question wordings were set: "Did you vote for the Republican? The Democrat? Or someone else?"

I do consider SurveyUSA a legitimate firm, but in this case someone let you down. (Their methodology is controversial, but I have no reason to think that that is relevant here.)

But that part is speculative, although the inadequacy of generic questions is established. What I can say is that the small differences in the robopolls between the Senate and governor races in Hardee and Okeechobee are hard to reconcile with pre-election polls and historical precedent, as well as the official returns. The rate of ticket-splitting should be much higher. There isn't enough information to say exactly what respondents were doing, but I surmise that to some extent they were reporting that the incumbent(s) they liked were of the party they liked.

You're right to wonder, if this is a bad-data problem, how you ended up with statistically significant results. I think it was a fluke of the design: of your six competitive statewide races, five were paired with races that strongly favored the Democrat. That could be because of massive miscount, but looking at the races, I doubt it.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. How can you say that the rate of ticket splitting should have been much higher?
Take Okeechobee County, for example, which is one that you brought up. The Republican won the Governor race by 51-46, but the Democrat won the House race 51-45, and the Democrat won the Senate race by 64-35. That sounds like a fair amount of ticket splitting to me. How can you say that it should have been much higher?
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I mean reported ticket-splitting in the survey
It's the survey data that I question. (I mean, I'm happy to question the official counts, too, but it's the survey data that had me scratching my head the moment I reached the crucial table.)

Hardee: 49/45, 50/46, 51/45 (R/D in gov/Sen/House respectively)
Okee: 45/51, 44/54, 45/52 respectively

Not all the county survey data look like that, but way too many are bizarrely close.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Let's suppose you're right that there's less ticket splitting than one would expect
according to the exit poll survey.

Still, as you say, there are counties where there is a fair amount of ticket splitting.

The report says that Survey USA asked the subjects who they voted for, not what party they voted for. Yet you're making an assumption that they were asked the latter.

You're also assuming that if the latter is the case, that would result in inaccurate data. Even if that assumption has some validity when applied to pre-election polls, I don't see why it would apply to post-election polls. It seems to me that voters would know who they voted for on the evening that they voted.

And again, as you've acknowledged, even if your two assumptions are correct, that still wouldn't explain why we had such strongly statistically significant results.

Thank you for sending me your full critique. I'll read it and get back to you on it later.

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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. well, I'm reading the survey reports
I can't be sure that SurveyUSA reported the question wording accurately, but they say they asked by party. Not just speculation on my part.

"You're also assuming that if the latter is the case, that would result in inaccurate data."

Not really. I think it poses a big methodological question, but FWIW, my thinking process went in the opposite direction. I looked at the survey data, concluded that they made no sense, and then looked for something that might explain the anomalous data. I certainly don't know whether it does, although it has decent warrant.

I think I have a pretty good reason for the statistically significant results -- better than any reason I've been offered for why the named pre-election polls don't indicate miscount targeted in the most competitive races. We basically know FL-13 came out wrong, so there's always that. As for the rest....
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. K&R
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
18. That was a brilliant analysis--to look at exit poll results for the same set of voters.
Not surprisingly, the "red shift" in competatitive races was 5.3, virtually identitical to the difference in the shift from Kerry and for Bush in the "official" election results.

The one thing that surprises me about this entire scandal was that Edison/Mitofsky seemed to offer no defense for their figures.

Why didn't these exit pollsters defend themselves by doing these same studies . . . and screaming bloody murder about it?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. It's very complicated
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 07:06 PM by Time for change
Edison/Mitofsky did actually do some studies to look at the issue. They claimed that their studies showed that bias was not a problem. However, a lot of important details were missing from their studies, and many weren't convinced, including myself.

They couldn't, however, do the type of study that we did here, because that kind of study needs to be planned in advance of the election. The election was over by the time this controversy arose, so they couldn't do this type of study for the 2004 election.

Later studies were done by others which did in fact show some evidence of bias in the exit polls. But the main question is not whether or not some bias existed in the 2004 exit polls -- the more important question is whether or not enough bias existed to account for the huge gap between the exit polls and the official vote count. I don't feel that that question was ever answered satisfactorily. But there is also a lot of ancillary evidence for vote switching type election fraud, including studies that looked at reports of observed vote switching by voters, who saw the votes switch right in front of their eyes. Such reports that favored Bush (vote switching from Kerry to Bush) outnumbered those that favored Kerry by a ratio of more than 10 to 1. Also, we have the evidence from Clint Curtis that he was actually told by his boss to write a computer program to switch votes -- and Tom Feeney, a Republican Congressperson, was involved in that. Here's that story:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5567680&mesg_id=5567680

And then there's massive voter suppression, for which there's even more evidence than electronic vote switching type fraud:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1297&mesg_id=1297

I believe that is the type of fraud that lost the 2004 election for Kerry/Edwards.

Edited to add: This is also complicated by the fact that our corporate media wants no discussion of this. Essentially, stolen elections are a taboo subject in our country. That's my opinion anyhow.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. Probably for the same reason that they denigrated VNS.
Edison/Mitofsky used to have a statement on their website that said they won't make the mistake that Voter News Service made in 2000. But VNS accurately called Florida for Gore, they never made any mistake there. By every account their exit-polling was flawless.

E/M doesn't seem to be concerned at all about trying to cover up or in any way hide their own inappropriate conduct. They're either totally incompetent or they are criminals IMHO.
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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. VNS didn't
call Florida "accurately" for Gore. Their data wasn't good enough for an accurate call either way.

That's not to say Gore didn't win, he did, probably by tens of thousands of votes. But probably not by enough to show up in the exit poll, given the very sparse precinct sampling.

They happened, if you like, to be RIGHT when they called Florida for Gore. But that was because two errors cancelled out - their own precinct sampling error, and the "error" by which thousands of voters either cast votes for Buchananan that were meant for Gore, or cast votes for Gore that were never counted.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Bullshit, I saw it with my own eyes. Are you calling me a liar now?
I saw the VNS guy say there were going to be 20,000 "missing votes" for Gore; 8,000 of them in Palm Beach and Broward Counties (there were only 3,000 erroneous votes there for Buchanan, IIRC) and 12,000 of them up in Duvall County (where we are supposed to believe that one out of every five voters didn't know that you could only vote for one person for president).

As it turns out, VNS was exactly right, much more "accurate" than the official count, and they said all this immediately after they had "uncalled" the race in Florida.

Are you going to argue that I didn't see the VNS guy say all that, while pointing out the locations of the two areas with suspect returns on his tiny little teleprompter, or are you going to try and make an argument that he was somehow mistaken?

You don't know what you are talking about on this. Or you are just being dishonest.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
33. Kick. (nt)
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