Why the fuck should I vote at all?

[Subdivisions]

Elections are a sham. The person that wins will be the person that is chosen for us by the powers that be.

So, tell me, if this can be done to Dennis, why should I even vote?

[AnOhioan]

1. I wish I could answer you....but I can't

[NightWatcher]

2. I dont think you should vote

it is a fix and we are all suckers

Out system is broken

[HughMoran]

6. Interesting advice

:kick:

[matcom]

3. you shouldn't. you are from Texas

we are giving you back to Mexico sometime around March '09.

:P





j/k




sorry.




:hide:

[spanone]

4. because you're here, you care....so vote.

[gateley]

5. To keep the WH out of the grips of Huckabee. nt

[geomon666]

15. That's the only reason I have for voting for anyone else but Kucinich.

I was going to write in Kucinich in the general election but I can't do that if Huckabee is running in the general. I draw the line on my ideals at the point where religious fundamentalism takes over.

[TahitiNut]

7. Here's an answer to that - that I wrote back in October 2002.

"Why I'm Voting, While I Still Can"

IMHO, every word is as relevant today ... over 5 years later.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HughMoran]

17. Hmmmm

You are voting Republican?

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HughMoran]

25. Ummm, you post was deleted because of that

You may be deleted too - no worries?

[2beToby]

27. Apparently (edited)

do you know if a mod gives you a heads up? I haven't gotten an e-mail, I'm doubling checking the rules now.

On edit: Okay I double checked the forum rules. And although it's not explicitly a rule, it is stated that DU is not for people who "wish for the Republicans to win" so I'm thinking that's what I did wrong. Regardless of intent. I haven't been contacted yet, but I respect the rules. Hopefully I'll just be warned, and I'll be sure to shut up next time. But if not, then yeah I guess, no worries, and all the best wishes to everyone here.

[Boojatta]

30. I missed the disapproval from Republicans about DK being excluded from the debate.

I assume, based on what you wrote earlier, that the Republicans must have expressed disapproval.

[HughMoran]

34. no

They said they were voting Republican.

[PFunk]

9. I'm starting to feel the same.

IF I do vote it'll be only to keep the supreme court from totally going right wing.

[blues90]

10. If they can do this to DK , think ABOUT what they can do to common people

I will never watch any station that can control who gets to speak . who the hell knows who to vote for . If no of these Dem hopefuls don't say something is wrong not allowing DK then what kind of people are they ?

[Desertrose]

29. By doing this to DK they ARE doing this to the common people

Only corporate interests are served....and clearly none of the three spoke up for Dennis or the people.

Its all about them.

[scarletwoman]

42. Thank you! Well said!

I wish more people understood this.

sw
:loveya:

[Desertrose]

43. Yup......and when they figure it out, it'll be too late.

:loveya:

DR

[scarletwoman]

46. Well, more and more I'm convinced that it's been "too late" since 11/22/1963.

At the heart of things, politics takes place in the realm of illusion. Only love is real.

:hug:
sw

[Desertrose]

59. I think you just made an excellent observation ,sw

Love this line...so true....

"At the heart of things, politics takes place in the realm of illusion. Only love is real."


:hug:
DR

[G_j]

82. absolutely!

and without love,
all is in vain

[truedelphi]

76. I could not bring myself to watch the corporate panderers debate

Amongst themselves.

Tried to work up some enthusiasm for Edwards, but his smiling so braodly while Kucinich was banned really spoiled the mood.

I am beginning to realize that being a Democratic candidate might not be the same thing as being a candidate for democracy.

[fascisthunter]

11. Good Question

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Been there, done that

I grew up in a country were elections were a sham... Everybody knew it

We still voted... IN DROVES!

We understood a couple things:

1.- If you vote, they will have to STEAL YOUR VOTE

2.- If enough people show up and VOTE... then it will be harder to steal

That is why you vote.

By the way, we will reach a point where we may reach the final box (if you listen to Malloy you need exactly which one I mean), since those never learn.

[NNN0LHI]

22. Recommend that post on this thread n/t

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[johnnie]

14. No doubt it's sham

I realized it for the first time in the bush/Gore election and decided to tell them to stick their vote up their ass. I was proven right. I voted in the next one because I was pissed, but I am really close in going back to making my no-vote count. It's a load of shit.

[LucyParsons]

16. Federal court appointments

That's the only thing that your vote may impact, IMHO.

That's what will, ultimately, be getting me to the polls to vote for the Democratic candidate, holding my nose.

That and that your local and state elections are very, very important, and your vote matters much more there.

[nonconformist]

18. JUDGES.

If nothing else, think about judicial appointments.

[scarletwoman]

26. Oh, I DO think about judicial appointments. Like Alito & Roberts with a Dem Senate majority.

I'll continue to vote in my state and local elections. But fuck the presidential vote. I'll write in Kucinich.

[HughMoran]

36. Minnesota might need your Dem vote

You could make the difference!

[scarletwoman]

45. Minnesota Dems will get my vote. Kucinich will get my vote for president. (nt)

[HughMoran]

49. Will Minnesota be Blue guaranteed (for President) this year?

I assume so, but who knows?

[scarletwoman]

50. Who knows, indeed. (nt)

[HughMoran]

52. I am saddended that you don't seem to care

A Republican president would be a disaster of all disasters - we'd have to live with a stacked Supreme Court for the rest of my children's lives :(

[scarletwoman]

53. I'm 58 years old. Things have going disasterously for many decades now.

Under both Democratic and Republican administrations.

It's not going to change until people demand it. And it's NOT going to change from the top -- it's NOT going to change through electoral politics.

It doesn't matter who sits in the White House, the Corporate Warfare State is the Sovereign Power, and both parties serve it.

All our energies should be put into building a societal foundation for a new paradigm. Electoral politics is just a distraction and sleight-of-hand.

The Supreme Court will be stacked by the Ruling Class, no matter what. The only war is the class war.

sw

[HughMoran]

56. That's a truly sad and distorted view of the USA

It makes me sick when I see people who have been tricked by the same people they claim are pulling the strings, except they have fallen for the real manipulation - they don't want us to participate. They want you in despair to try to convince others not to participate. You are promoting that we give up - that my children's lives have no hope. I've been depressed in my lifetime, but this is truly sad. You believe the true lie that they are selling - YOU are promoting the corporate lie. I cannot participate in this any more. :(

[scarletwoman]

58. How am I "promoting that we give up"? I'm saying, "build a movement".

How is that giving up?

[HughMoran]

63. "Build a movement" could take 10, 20, 30 years - who knows

The USA is not like a small Central American country - we do not change rapidly. We will not change rapidly. I have to consider the lives of my children if the Supreme Court gets any more right-wing. These are decisions that could/will effect their lives when they become old enough to have their own children or get dragged off into a war. My privacy matters to me. Science is more important that a stupid book written by men that heard voices in their heads. Huckabee said he wants to change the Constitution to include Biblical standards. I can't think of any more violent thing to subject my children to than another right-wing hate government that may try to send them off to fight some stupid war or try to steal their ability to make their own decisions WRT their own bodies. I will fight these right-wing psychopaths in the now, and in the future. I can't, I won't sacrifice their lives for my ideals.

[Desertrose]

65. Without ideals, you will get what we got...candidates bought by big money.

I disagree that change can't happen quickly.

Look how fast Bush changed things once he got in power.

[HughMoran]

70. People (like Bush or any elected official) can change rapidly

The system in this country is considered to be tried and true by a huge majority. The best way to effect change is by using the system to one's advantage. This is happening now as Dems are tricking the progressives into thinking they are no better than Republicans. This is good politics and it is how they are using the system to their benefit. Just like Bush changed rapidly once he got in office, you can bet that you know almost nothing about what the next president will do once they get in. My bet? They will move to the left once elected with a friendly Congress. I can't tell you which one will be best based on their performances for the corporate audience tonight, but I can tell you that they are all playing the system to some extent. We will see...

[hippywife]

84. The movement to push back from the bottom

has to start somewhere. It will never start if everyone says "not my children." Seeing how far our democracy has sunk into the state that it is now in over the past several decades, and more so in the one immediately passed, it has to start with us or it will be harder for your children to keep the momentum going.

If you want to do something for your children in this respect, teach them what was fought for before us, and what you are fighting for now and why. Teach them to fight for the same things, because they are going to have to anyway. That is exactly what the right has been doing all these decades.

Nothing we do now is going to make the sea change difference in their lives you want to see right now. That change is going to take time and lots of pushing to regain lost ground. Lay the bedrock they need to stand on to continue pushing in the right direction. They're going to need it.

I firmly believe we lost the last election because of this fear. We took whatever the powers that be gave us and tried to run with it even thought it was a poor substitute. Instead of standing at the polls on principle, we stood there shaking in fear hoping for immediate relief. That is why we lost. We weren't strong enough to fight for the real change we wanted.

The fight now is for everyone's children and their children into the future. No short term goal is enough anymore. The other side has gained too much ground doing it the way it should be done...with the vision for the long term goal in their sight.

[Rex]

61. True lie? Do you read what you post?

You seem not to understand how our federal system works. Now THAT is sad. And, I hate to be the wet blanket in the group, but you are ruled by the corporations. We all are. Deny it all you want to, it won't change a thing. Change?

Maybe a change would do us some good. Politics is about dominating people, surely you knew that.

[HughMoran]

66. I didn't say that I wasn't

I did say that giving up and not participating is what they want you to do.

Do you have an alternative that will lead to a better alternative for my children (I know nothing will change before I'm dead).

I am for change, you and I know the Dems are more likely to provide it, but nothing radical will happen until something revolutionary happens and I don't see this nation full of couch potatoes doing anything radical. I will do what I think is best for my children and that involves electing Democrats right now.

[Rex]

68. Push people far enough and watch out.

They lose interest in the couch when they no longer have a home. Laugh if you think it won't happen, history follows a given pattern.

Push the masses too far and the masses will eventually go apeshit crazy.

[HughMoran]

72. I absolutely agree with that

Oh, if we have a depression or other massive societal upheaval in the country, you can bet people will get off their cold couches and do something! I don't hope for this, but if it happens (& looks like Bush may have pushed us beyond recovery), then we may have an opportunity to initiate the changes that we all know are needed (like single-payer socialized medicine.) I don't hope for this situation, but I will know what to do when it happens :D

[Rex]

73. It could get very ugly, but our Founders wrote that we should never

settle for a nation ruled by petty dictators and boy does George Bush and Dick Cheney fit the bill. I don't want it to happen either, but nations have a way of realigning themselves after disasters. We shall see.

[Desertrose]

64. No actually, they want us to keep playing the game....

Honestly, I don't think they really care whether we participate or not- they will control & manipulate things to suit them as long as we continue to pretend its not happening. Its easier for them...the longer we "play the game", then the longer the game continues.



I agree with scarletwoman- we need to change things from the ground up. WE need to demand changes to benefit the common people. WE need to hold their feet to the fire and stop electing and going along with our so called "representatives" when they are not representing us but representing corporate desires.

Its time for some tough love and putting our feet down so to speak and DEMANDING what benefits US, not the big money masters. WE need to take back our rights. It will not be easy but I still have hope that if enough people wake up and forget the divisions and come together for the things that directly affect us, changes can be made. But they sure as hell will never happen as long as we continue to allow puppet candidates take office.

[HughMoran]

69. The best leaders will then have to be those that can "play the game" then

...because I don't see anybody creating another path at this time (I happen to agree with the ideals of creating a new, more socialist system 100% BTW).

Problem is, in the meantime, wanting something different will not prevent the Supreme Court from making life MORE difficult for my children in the near term. My job as a parent is very clear to me. The Dems are the best bet for now until someone/some movement learns how to "beat the system". That ain't happening this year, so I'm voting for a Democrat for President.

[mondo joe]

19. Because someone you care about might be gay, or might need an abortion, or might

need Habeas Corpus.

[Kucinich4America]

31. And who's going to restore Habeas Corpus or enforce full equality for the gays?

I can tell you who WON'T, and that's the person pictured in your avatar.

[mondo joe]

32. Do you think Mitt Romney or Huckabee will? Are you going to pretend there's no difference

on these matters between Clinton and Huckabee.

You make me puke with your pride, at the risk of real people who would truly suffer under a Huckabee presidency.

Any of the three candidates in the debate tonight are light years ahead of any of the repubs on equal rights, on abortion rights, on habeas corpus or any of a number of issues.

[SIMPLYB1980]

40. You sound like Nader!

That got us Bush instead of Gore.

[mondo joe]

41. Thank you! The "No difference between Bush and Gore" song is tired. And wrong.

It was then, it is now.

[Desertrose]

44. Bullshit. A stolen election and SCOTUS got us bush.

and the Dems helped it along by not backing Gore for a complete recount.

[pinto]

20. If you choose not to vote, you choose to have less voice than you feel you have now.

Some things remain up to you.

Hang in there. :kick:

[Freddie Stubbs]

21. President Huckabee?

[Rex]

57. Now THAT is a reason for everyone to vote.

President Huckabee... :puke:

[dorkulon]

67. That's what I was going to say. /nt

[conspirator]

81. With regards to fight job outsourcing and long hours low paid work, Huckabee will be as good

as Hillary or Obama. Now if wars are your concern, if the military industrial complex and big oil want to start a war with Iran, they will regardless if it's Hillary or Huckabee the president. Corporations own the government.

[bdamomma]

24. President Mitt Romney?

blah.

[never_get_over_it]

28. Because you'll feel really bad if you don't

I think about not voting all the time lately - and I made a vow that I would always vote because my foremothers fought so hard for my right to do so - but I know in the end I will vote because I would just feel plain awful - completely without hope if I didn't....

[uppityperson]

33. Judges. Local issues. Lots of other things to vote on.

[struggle4progress]

35. Why the fuck aint ya sittin in bed with beer an pretzels watchin the tube like a real American?

I are thinkin here I oughta report ya

[BrightKnight]

37. Don't play voter suppression games. - n/t

[lonestarnot]

38. Vote for someone who will fight the shit out of corporate power.

Taps fingers on table... who shall it be of the apparent 3? hmmmm for you to decide. Good luck! :hug:

[DemBones DemBones]

62. Yes! Vote Kucinich if you want change!

Otherwise, it's meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[Patsy Stone]

39. The SCOTUS.

That's why.

[RuleOfNah]

47. Why not vote? Simply showing up to vote seems to put fear in the gangsters.

Voting is the public protest that can't be caged.

[Rex]

48. I dunno, it takes 300 million dollars to run for POTUS.

What the fuck happened to this country? Normal people will NEVER even know what it is like to have power. Only the rich and well connected.

[AgadorSparticus]

51. I have to agree. But for shits and giggles, I'm going to vote for Edwards.

[orleans]

79. but when msnbc moves edwards out of the race then who will you vote for? n/t

[Solon]

54. To give yourself a false sense of accomplishment?

:shrug:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

55. Passive resistance to a corrupt system.

I always vote..but I have compunction about writing in a candidate or voting 3rd party.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams

[arthritisR_US]

60. I vote so I won't fall completely into the cynicism abyss. n/t

[WritersBlock]

71. I'm gonna vote because I'm not giving the fuckers the satisfaction of convincing me not to.

I'm not gonna make it that easy for 'em. If they're gonna steal an election, I'm gonna do my best to make sure they have to at least work for it.

[mzmolly]

74. Uhm, because this election isn't about Dennis?

:freak:

[leftofthedial]

75. there is no reason to vote in Murka

we get our choice of flavors, as long as we choose vanilla, vanilla bean, country vanilla, double vanilla, creamy vanilla or old-fashioned vanilla.

then, no matter which one we choose, they give us fake vanilla.

[truedelphi]

77. The mood in my household is a whole lot of

Heapin' stinkin' anger at all the friggin' vanilla.

[deacon]

78. A good start is to stop feeding the media beast. They're kept alive

by the politics for entertainment crowd. Shut blitzer and matthews and the rest off and refuse to let them choose our candidate.

[conspirator]

80. Welcome Neo. You are now seeing the world as it truly is. More people need to wake up

The Obama and Clinton race is just a soap opera for the masses. If you like being livestock, then keep voting, watching american idol and going to wallmart.

[OneGrassRoot]

85. "If you like being livestock, then keep voting..."

You are here why? If it's so hopeless, why do you have an interest being at a site where issues and solutions are discussed?

You are certainly not the only one, but I'm tired of the defeatism and am going to ask each and every person today why they're here if they are COMPLETELY hopeless and are determined to make others equally hopeless.

Maybe there is a shred of hope deep down inside that makes you want to interact here?

[conspirator]

86. I rather feel hopeless than have false hope. Are you afraid of the truth?

Hopelessness doesn't mean defeat. It means you have to stop doing what you have always done and change everything upside down.
Until we have more "hopeless" people nothing will change.
I post on this site for fun. As you can see, a "hopeless" person still enjoys life very much.
My pratical advice to fight injustice is first stop wasting your time with elections.

[OneGrassRoot]

87. Thank you for your reply. n/t

[Perry Logan]

83. It's good for your karma. Plus--even in a flawed system--voting sometimes helps.

[Marrah_G]

88. YOu should vote so we don't get an asshat like Huckabee in the WH

THAT is why you should still vote.

Sorry DK was barred from the debate. The reality is that even though his views would have added to the debate, he has a snowball's chance in hell of winning this year.

For every Dem voter that refuses to vote, the repukes cheer. Everyone of you who gives into defeat bring a smile to the face of the GOP tacticians.

They cannot win. They want the Dems to implode and for people not to vote because it is their only chance to win in November.

[PDittie]

89. Because if you don't, the GOP terrorists have already won

You're right, you can't write Kucinich in because it won't count anyway. Can you believe that the the Texas Democratic (sic) Party only allows "approved" write-in candidates?

That's some democracy we're fighting for in Iraq, isn't it?

Now having said that, you should vote in your primary election anyway -- and then attend your precinct convention after the polls close -- in order to begin the process of stopping this kind of shit. Undervote the Prezdential, vote for somebody, anybody, somewhere on the ballot that you can tolerate, and then make your voice heard at the precinct convention.

This is even more important than voting, IMHO.

[LanternWaste]

90. If nothing else, voting is a...

If nothing else, voting is a statement of intent and a statement of conscious.