Ghosts of abu ghraib/HBO

[ls317]

Did anyone watch the show ?? what did you think about it!

[Dr.Phool]

1. The chimps approval ratings had to drop 10 points tonight.

The only thing left for him are the 20%, hard-core fascists.

I came to tears watching the guy describe how his father died. "He meant everything to me".

Winning hearts and minds, all day long.

[patrice]

2. It made me realize

how "normal" the whole thing is. The Invasion of Iraq and everything related to it is a product of what we are. Those soldiers aren't monsters; they are us. A couple of them even said "If there hadn't been any pictures, everyone would have just gone home and nothing would have been made of it."

[Bozita]

3. Pogo: "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

[patrice]

6. Yep. And all of this fighting over who voted how on the IWR

is pretty much beside the point.

I don't know quite how to say this, but all kinds of little and not so little things that were done and not done by everyone, now and in the past, brought us to this.

All of us bear responsibility. And though there are larger roles played by folks like Miller and Graner, for most of us there's no way to say "small" parts are less culpable than larger ones, because whatever those smaller roles were/are you could have chosen differently, especially since it WAS something "small". It's like the bigger roles wouldn't even have been possible without all of the smaller ones, smaller things that people could have chosen to do or not to do, based upon how they affected one's own humanity or that of others.

Does any of that make sense?

I'm feeling pretty sad.

[Bozita]

8. This NYT review won't cheer you up, but ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/22/arts/television/22sta ...

TV REVIEW | 'GHOSTS OF ABU GHRAIB'
Abu Ghraib and Its Multiple Failures

By ALESSANDRA STANLEY
Published: February 22, 2007

The problem with the Fox thriller “24” is not that it justifies torture but that it fosters the illusion that the American government is good at it.The practices of Abu Ghraib suggest the opposite. The mystery of that shameful episode was not the cruelty of American troops assigned there. After the initial disbelief over the obscene snapshots, their smile-for-the-camera barbarity turned out to be another painful reminder that the banality of evil has no borders.

The real puzzle is why the administration, which argued that the war against terror required extreme interrogation techniques — the kind critics call torture — would then entrust such measures to untrained amateurs.

“Ghosts of Abu Ghraib,” a documentary by Rory Kennedy on HBO tonight, looks up and down the chain of command to examine how and why the abuse took place. It is not a new line of inquiry; a 2005 PBS “Frontline” documentary went over the same ground and also concluded that responsibility for the excesses trickled upward all the way to Washington.

But the raw material never ceases to shock. How is it that a government that took such bold steps to reinterpret the Geneva Conventions and update the rules of combat did not pay closer attention to how its policy changes were carried out on the ground? The Pentagon didn’t even manage to shield the worst excesses from public view.

more, lots more...

[patrice]

10. Thanks, I'll read that tomorrow. n/t

[Dr.Phool]

5. That's it!

Graner got 10 years for taking the pictures.

None of his superiors, who commended him, got shit!

[Rainscents]

4. I have HBO... I'll watch it On Demand.

Thanks for reminder!

[Blue_In_AK]

7. That was absolutely chilling.

I missed the first half hour. I assume it will be on again?

[patrice]

9. catwoman posted this earlier:

(HBO) Channel 301
Thu 2/22 9:30 PM

(HBOHD) Channel 880
Thu 2/22 9:30 PM

(HBOP) Channel 311
Fri 2/23 12:30 AM

(HBO) Channel 301
Fri 2/23 4:35 AM

(HBOHD) Channel 880
Fri 2/23 4:35 AM

(HBOP) Channel 311
Fri 2/23 7:35 AM

(HBO) Channel 301
Tue 2/27 12:15 AM

(HBOHD) Channel 880
Tue 2/27 12:15 AM

(HBOP) Channel 311
Tue 2/27 3:15 AM

(HBO2) Channel 303
Wed 2/28 10:15 PM

(HBO2) Channel 303
Sun 3/4 1:00 AM

(HBO) Channel 301
Tue 3/6 10:00 PM

(HBOHD) Channel 880
Tue 3/6 10:00 PM

(HBOP) Channel 311
Wed 3/7 1:00 AM

[fooj]

11. The process of de-humanization.

These people are monsters. I'm not talking about the soldiers, either. I'm talking about Rummy, Cheney, Bush and their evil band of sexually deviant war criminals. It's horrific. I want these people to pay for what they have done.

I asked my husband "How can they ever forgive us for this?" How? OMG.

:cry:

[SeattleGirl]

12. Here are my thoughts, posted on another thread about this topic:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=270062&mesg_id=271463