Women are the most oppressed humans on the planet...

[joshcryer]

...it's about time in the USA that women come out in droves to vote, no matter how you want to cut it.

But I guess it's hard to see it that way for a lot of people here.

[Captain_Nemo]

1. A lot of women remember how tough it was to be female in a pre-women's liberation movement USA

[BrklynLiberal]

67. Sadly, a lot of the younger women of today do not.

A lot is taken for granted. The struggles, hardships and actual physical abuses that were suffered by those before them, to ensure the rights and benefits that they have today, are totally forgotten.

[TheWraith]

94. Don't take this the wrong way, but I have to say your post irritates me greatly.

Whether you realize it or not, you're disrespecting pretty much all younger women who don't fall in lock-step, implying that if they're not voting for Hillary it's because they're clueless, foolish, or ungrateful, when nothing could be farther from the truth. They're exercising the very right that was won by their forebears, the right of self-determination.

Yes, it's valuable to remember the past, but part of the past is that it's gone, and over. Of course young women today don't self-identify the way older women do, the same way that women born in the '30s and '40s and '50s didn't self-identify as suffragists, because that part of history is ended. The change in personal identity is part and parcel of the death of the old mindsets and worldviews.

There's one young lady I know, who's obviously very smart and politically educated, and raised by another smart and politically savvy woman, neither of whom seems to me to me to be the kind to take any kind of crap from anybody. That young lady is enthusiastically supporting a candidate, and it's not Hillary. That certainly doesn't make her ignorant, or spoiled, or mindless. It makes here a person for whom gender is not the most important characteristic of who she wants to lead her people, which is something that deserves to be lauded, not criticized.

[Captain_Nemo]

122. Both replies to my post are valuable. It is true, historically, that after a women's movement, the

generation that follows takes for granted the gains that were hard fought. and they are RIGHT in doing so. Yet, one thing about history in America is that it is forgotten. I am in a generation that came after the women's movement. I take for granted things that were hard fought. Yet, I also, am into women's history so I, (unlike many others_ and this is not a slam it is just a fact) I revel in the history so I can see where the forgetting of feminist struggles did lead to a lot of women voting for George W. Bush. and that has hurt us greatly.
a lot of pro-choice women voted for him thinking, wrongfully, that abortion will never be illegal. and, that is wrong.

Both posts are right. (Unfortunately, the tone of both is contentious) In sisterhood, to both of you!

[BrklynLiberal]

141. You totally misunderstood my motives. I think voting for Hillary because she is a woman is just as

sexist as voting against her because she is a woman. Neither race nor gender enter into my choice as to whom I believe would make the best president.
My statement is a reflection of comments and statements that have been made in my presence by women who are younger than I am, who seem to have no idea what it cost their predecessors to get them the privileges and benefits they enjoy today. They have that same sense of entitlement that so many of those of "that" generation seem to enjoy.
My comment had absolutely nothing to do with voting preference. It had more to do with quality of life in general, and how easily what one takes for granted today can be lost tomorrow if you do not remain vigilant.

"ignorant, or spoiled, or mindless" are your terms, not mine.

[joshcryer]

142. see post #43

[Captain_Nemo]

124. Not totally, Take heart in the fact that the last march (2004) on washington for abortion rights

was the largest march in history! I was there and I can say that younger women were out in full force. It was inspiring and hopeful to see them!

[BrklynLiberal]

143. I was there, and took great joy in every younger woman I saw there. I also

celebrated that fact that there were many, many men there..both young and old.
Too bad the media all but ignored the entire march....

[Bicoastal]

2. Hillary Clinton doesn't seem particularly oppressed to me...

...so quit playing the pity card.

[mondo joe]

4. Really? Whenever I see her held to a different standard than her male counterparts

I'm reminded of just how much harder women have it.

[Captain_Nemo]

5. She went to college and law school prior to Title IX. She was in the job market when help wanted

ads were divided into Male help wanted and female help wanted. She was a woman in pre-roe v. wade days. She was in an era when it was perfectly legal for an employer to say, "Thanks, but we already have a woman working here. "

The women's movement changed all of this and more but the successes didn't happen until the mid seventies. If you accuse a woman of of not having it tough prior to feminism then you need to read some American history.

She survived all of it including a republican attack machine for approximately 16 years. (That was post feminism)

[VotesForWomen]

84. correct; i believe she applied to NASA and was told "we are not accepting female applicants." some

some one correct me if this is not true, but i believe i heard her say this.

[joshcryer]

105. I believe it, or it sounds about right. NASA has a long history of being biased against females.

The early astronaut female programs had women outscoring the men in many of the test, I mean their asses were completely kicked.

[Captain_Nemo]

123. Correct. That is a fact. Roger Wilco and out.

[Deja Q]

3. Did you vote for Margaret Thatcher during the 1980s?

:7

(I'm not paralleling Hillary to Margaret -- but Margaret was a woman... or so people are told...)

[MADem]

6. Did she run for office in the United States? If she didn't that's a fer-shit comparison.

FWIW, no one in GB voted FOR her either. They voted for their party, and she was lead dog and got the PM slot.

Why not bring up Benazir Bhutto, or Indira Ghandi, or even Golda "Tough as Nails" Mier? Why Maggie?

[11 Bravo]

7. No one voted for Magaret Thatcher in the 1980s.

People voted for the Conservative Party, of which she was the leader.

[Djinn]

70. except all those people in her electorate

besides plenty of people in Westminster systems vote for the leader not the party, that's why so many of them now run Presidential style campaigns now.

[joshcryer]

18. I couldn't vote in the 1980s.

I would've if I could have.

[Leopolds Ghost]

97. The OP is saying he would've voted for Margaret Thatcher.

[joshcryer]

101. Maybe I should take that back. :P

:P

[dorkulon]

8. Who's more oppressed:

1. A white woman in America
2. A black man in Sudan
3. A gay man in Saudi Arabia

It seems to me calling 51% of the population of earth "the most oppressed humans on the planet" is painting with an incredibly broad brush.

[Captain_Nemo]

10. Crimes/discrimination against women cut through racial boundaries.

[dorkulon]

14. I'm not going to argue that women don't have it harder

than men--at least heterosexual men--but I'd argue that gays have it hardest of all, if I wanted to make a contest out of it.

But still--shouldn't EVERYONE be coming out to vote in droves? And shouldn't they all vote for the candidate whose policies they like, and who they think has the most integrity, not just the candidate who physically resembles them most?

[Chovexani]

68. What about queer women of color?

This is not an either/or thing.

I think the point that the OP was trying to make is that women have more to lose in a system that is inherently rigged against us, therefore we have an even bigger responsibility to come out in numbers and make our voices heard. It doesn't matter who you're voting for, just get out there and vote. When the deck is stacked against you, there is more at stake in elections.

I need to get my eyes checked but I didn't see anything in the OP to suggest to vote on someone based on their gender, but simply to VOTE, period. Unless this person is a known Clinton shill or something in which case n/m, but I think my point is valid.

[hfojvt]

25. and crimes against men don't count

because it's still men's fault :eyes:

The rape rate per 100,000 was 32.7 in 1999. The rate for aggravated assault was about ten times that 336.1. The violent crime rate against men was 37 per 1,000. The rate against women was 28.8. Between 1992 and 1998 there were 1,580,000 male victims of crime "with severe injury" the number of female victims 830,000. Murder victims in 1999 - 9,811 men; 3,185 women.

I keep seeing # male victims > # female victims, but somehow women are more oppressed.

edit: crimes against me? Ha ha, freudian slip. It's really all about Maine.

[joshcryer]

36. No one said that.

[hfojvt]

48. no, it just seems to be the only way to make the OP relevant to America

[joshcryer]

54. Anything in American Presidential politics is relevant on a global level.

:hi:

[Captain_Nemo]

44. You would have to look at why women are killed, etc. Women, as a group, are targeted for murder,

rape because they are women. That is the crucial distinction here. stalking, murder, assault by husbands and boyfriends exists in large numbers in our society. These violent attacks cut through all racial boundaries and economic boundaries. . Men aren't being killed for "being male." Women are being targeted because they are women. Women make less money than men (still) and women have, all in all, less power (look who owns corporations, etc). Look at the power structures around the world and you see a male power structure.
Women live marginal lives in some countries because they are women. Here in the USA the discrimination against women takes the form of domestic violence, rape, stalking.

[Quantess]

91. Great point. "Women live marginal lives in some countries because they are women"

Most everyone around the world lives their life according to what is and what is not allowed of their gender role.

Even in the USA, women are often seen by their significant others as "property", or chattel. You belong to me. Leave me, and I will kill you, that kind of thing. Or that a woman can be simply killed and disposed of for disobeying a man's wishes. More likely for her to be beaten into submission first.

This all starts innocently enough. It starts with disrespecting women in general, by writing religions that chastise women, by telling them to shut up, don't expose your arms and legs or else you'll be inviting rape, by ridiculing women, etc, etc.

[Quantess]

89. Crimes against men are usually committed by other men, yes.

Males are overwhelmingly the perpetrators, whether their victims are male or female, so yes, you do have a point. Here's one link:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/intimates.htm

Edit to add my point: Males are homicide victims more frequently than females. There are fewer female murder victims than males, but female homicide victims are most commonly murdered by a boyfriend or spouse.

Females really aren't into killing and raping sprees like males, are they?

[Quantess]

107. Here's another statistic.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/gender.htm

[gollygee]

11. Who's more oppressed?

A woman or a man in America?
A woman or a man in Sudan?
A woman or a man in Saudi Arabia?

In any given circumstance, the women living there as a group have a much harder time of it than the men living there as a group.

[dorkulon]

16. What about homosexuals?

You think women have it harder than gays? At least women don't have to walk around pretending to be men.

[noiretextatique]

118. some homosexuals are female

they face the issues that other women do +, including sexism and racism from other homosexuals.

[noamnety]

17. Apples and oranges

Here's the comparisons:

A white woman in America
A white man in America

A black woman in Sudan
A black man in Sudan

A gay woman in Saudi Arabia
A gay man in Saudi Arabia

Even in the US, we have the highest rape rate of any country that reports those statistics. Even in the US, women are ten times more likely than men to be the victim of sexual assault.

Worldwide, they are the most oppressed people. "The majority of the 1.5 billion people living on 1 dollar a day or less are women. In addition, the gap between women and men caught in the cycle of poverty has continued to widen in the past decade, a phenomenon commonly referred to as "the feminization of poverty". Worldwide, women earn on average slightly more than 50 per cent of what men earn."

http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/followup/session/presskit/fs1.htm

[joshcryer]

22. It is an incredibly broad brush, but it's true.

Anyone disputing the superiority of men over women in the vast majority of the world is just delusional. Women are only somewhat free in the western world, elsewhere they are the most oppressed humans that exist.

BTW, per capita in Sudan and Saudi Arabia yes, I would say women are the most opppressed people.

[hfojvt]

32. I just love it that wealthy women in America

get to cry "victim" because of a shared chromosome with real victims. "women are only somewhat free in the western world". Unlike men, who are totally free? Or just mostly totally free?

[joshcryer]

39. This has nothing to do with victimhood.

I'm by far the last person to cry victim. I'm pointing out a disparity that exists even in the western world. Women are still second class citizens even here. But women are coming out, for the first time in 30 some odd years, to get something they want. If women are more oppressed than men in the vast majority of the world (and they are, this is indisputable), isn't it a positive thing that they are showing their votes in an election in a country that propurtedly is the oldest democracy in the world (which didn't even allow women to vote when my mom was of voting age)?

[hfojvt]

46. second class citizens here?

How do you figure?

BTW my dad was not allowed to vote when he was of voting age, but he was still made to join the National Guard in order to avoid being shipped to Korea.

[joshcryer]

145. Wage disparities, political representation, the war on female rights.

Poverty, single mother households, the list goes on.

[Quantess]

109. I notice that you changed your avatar tonight.

Like that will fool anyone.

[hfojvt]

154. thanks for noticing

but I changed my sig line tonight, from a quote by Kucinich to this one I just read in Thom Hartmann's book "Screwed". My avatar was changed recently from Ellen DeGeneres to Elizabeth Edwards. At least as far as I remember. I change them periodically.

But enough about me. :P

[Scout]

111. start a thread on men's oppression why don't you, and quit spamming

this one!

geez, some men just have to make it all about ME, ME, ME!

[undercutter2006]

140. in all fairness

when somebody starts a thread on the ways men are oppressed it is immediately spammed by people yelling - women have it much worse !

so let's be intellectually honest here, everybody does this type of shit

[joshcryer]

149. Just be glad this thread isn't about FGM.

You'd have male circumcision posts all over the fucking place. You can't even *have* an FGM discussion on this website.

[hfojvt]

152. spamming?

It's spamming to answer spurious reasoning wherever you find it (or think it exists)? I usually don't mind at all when people kick my threads even if they do so by challenging my arguments.

Sometimes it's hard to follow the golden rule.

[Darth_Kitten]

45. Women in America, Sudan and Saudi Arabia.......

still have a tougher time of it than the men do.

[Skittles]

59. LOL

you neglected to mention: a black woman in Sudan and a lesbian in Saudi Arabia. Why?

[dorkulon]

60. Because

it's not relevant to my point, which is that it's not accurate to describe American women as "the most oppressed people." I freely admit that wherever women are, they have it harder than (straight) men. But American women have it easier than a lot of men--and women--around the world.

But of course, everyone should vote--for the best candidate, not necessarily the one that looks like them.

[joshcryer]

72. I did *not* say "American women are the most oppressed people."

That's complete absurdity. Women are oppressed *worldwide*. I think it is fitting, if not promising, that the women of America, the most influncial and powerful nation on the planet, are voting in numbers I personally have never witnessed before.

Our democracy is touted as the worlds greatest, but we have the most pathetic turnouts in the world. It actually pisses me off when people say a certain candidate would "make the Republicans get out the vote" because I say fucking good on that! We're a joke for democracy.

[Quantess]

74. "American women have it easier than a lot of men"

How do you figure that?

Or did you mean to say: many American women have it easier than a lot of American men? That would be true, since we are of course talking in generalizations. Individuals have a wide range of differences. No disputing that. Wives occasionally murder their husbands, for example. Girlfriends occasionally batter their boyfriends, and female bosses sometimes discriminate against males.

I'm sure everyone has been treated badly by someone of the opposite sex, but that doesn't mean you can draw conclusions of the whole, based on your individual experiences.

Another thing: are you suggesting that American women get more respect than women in other countries, because that isn't true. The USA is low on the list, compared to many westernized countries.

[dorkulon]

76. You misunderstand me.

I said American women, not American men. And most countries are not "westernized."

In other words, white, western woman are probably the second most powerful and privileged demographic in the world.

[Quantess]

81. Oh. I see.

So then since we American women have it so great compared to some other oppressed individuals in other parts of the world, we should be grateful and take our lumps.

[dorkulon]

83. No, not at all.

I just thought the OP was a bit much, when it's basically about voting for Hillary, as far as I can tell.

Look, I think everyone should vote. Women and men. It's mandatory in some places, and that strikes me as a good idea. I think, of course, that women--and men--everywhere should strive for a world where everyone is equal. I also think it's totally cool that we now live in a country where a woman can, and probably will, be president. Same with the black guy. The viability of both Hillary and Barack represents real progress for civil rights in this country--at least on the Democratic side. I also think that people should vote for the candidate that best matches their ideology, and who they find most credible, not necessarily the one that shares their physical characteristics.

[Quantess]

86. Great. Yes, I agree with your post.

You posted your reply just in time! I was just about to post a link to a very un-funny "hilarious" photo you posted on the Women's Rights Forum (what were doing there, anyway?)

About the Original Post: I think the intention was not specifically to boost Hillary Clinton, as the Original Poster explained later. I think it was more of a "women should vote" mantra, because it will only help Democrats. Women are more dissatisfied with the current administration than men, so say the polls. If this is any indication, women will overwhelmingly vote Democratic!

[dorkulon]

90. You seem determined to hate me.

That's fine; have fun with that.

BTW, aside from you, women like me just fine, thanks.

:cry:

[Quantess]

93. I'm sure you're a nice guy (I guess?)

I might even grow to like you. Just, don't go back to the Women's Rights forum, okay? Otherwise I might rip you a new one, LOL.

I have a good sense of humor, I really do! I didn't think that particular photo was all that "hilarious", but it's very possible that if it all happened in person, that I would share in the laugh.

My boyfriend is an insensitive blockhead sometimes too, although he is the sweetest and most lovable man. He doesn't believe my stories of being sexually harrassed when I was younger. He actually said "what were you wearing!?"

Peace. :)

[Leopolds Ghost]

98. Who's more oppressed: A Bedouin woman in Sudan or a black man in southern Sudan?

[WillyT]

9. I'm Glad They're Coming Out In Droves To Vote...

just wish they'd vote for Edwards.

:hide:

[Little Star]

12. I was with him sisce 2004. His good old boy tag team turned me

to Hillary. I do not like sexism.

[Darth_Kitten]

47. Edwards? LOL

right.....

[joshcryer]

73. WillyT, I've seen a few who have voted or intend to vote for him here. :)

I wish Gore ran. :/

I'm still hoping for a brokered convention. :P

[Jed Dilligan]

13. "Most oppressed"

I wish people would stop thinking in these terms. Everyone has a struggle. Obama's has been much closer to mine, personally. I know tons of younger women who are turning out for Obama, because the generational difference in experience is much broader than the gender difference for us.

[WillyT]

20. Yep... It Looks Like We're Gonna Have The Second Wave Feminists vs. The Third Wave Feminists

Second-Wave Feminism

Second Wave Feminism is generally identified with a period beginning in the early nineteen sixties. It is referred to as second wave feminism as social changes tend to occur in waves. Its proponents ascribe its arrival to what they see as the failure of first wave feminism to achieve its aims.

The movement encouraged women to understand the psychological implications of sexist stereotypes, and to make them realise that they could achieve more in life than being a housewife and a mother. It is credited by some as having opened up the eyes of American women to a world of careers and achievement. During the Second World War, many women experienced working life for the very first time. Women and men were working side by side, and achievements were being recognised. In the wake of the war, it is often argued that the short-lived affirmation of women's independence gave way to a pervasive endorsement of female subordination and domesticity, and it was not until the 1960's that the women's movement became successful.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-wave_feminism

Third-Wave Feminism

Third-wave feminism seeks to challenge or avoid what it deems the second wave's "essentialist" definitions of femininity, which (according to the third wave) often assumed a universal female identity and over-emphasized the experiences of upper middle class white women. A post-structuralist interpretation of gender and sexuality is central to much of third wave ideology. This accounts for the heightened emphasis on the discursive power and fundamental ambiguity inherent in all gender terms and categories. Third-wave theory usually encompasses queer theory, women of color consciousness, womanism, post-colonial theory, critical theory, transnationalism, ecofeminism, and new feminist theory.

Third wave feminists often focus on "micropolitics," writing about forms of gender expression and representation that are less explicitly political than their predecessors. They also challenged the second wave's paradigm as to what is, or is not, good for females.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-wave_feminism

Could get interesting.

:shrug:

[durrrty libby]

23. Call it whatever you want. Women will take her to the WH

[Jed Dilligan]

29. I don't know a single woman under 50

who plans to vote for her. If Obama can fire up the youth he has a good crack at her.

[durrrty libby]

34. Ha. They will not tell you but they will pull the lever for her.

[Jed Dilligan]

35. Oh yeah, cuz I'm this oppressive MANmonster

that will rape and murder them if they dare show support for a female candidate.

I would love to have a female president, but I don't want another baby boom president... it's time for that generation to step aside.

[durrrty libby]

38. Obviously you have a temper so maybe that's one reason

[Jed Dilligan]

51. Oh yeah baby

I'm so oppressive...

on edit: You are easily the nastiest poster I have seen on this board and a major reason why I would never consider supporting your candidate, FYI. And the idea that women in my life are lying to me because they fear some sort of reaction is so offensive that it warrants anger as a response.

[durrrty libby]

138. Angry, whiny crybaby. It is quite amusing

[Jed Dilligan]

155. Thanks for proving my point most emphatically

about your nastiness.

[Hatchling]

77. Oh, yeah? I'm a Boomer

and I'm not dead yet. Still eligible to vote and ain't steppin' aside, kiddo. It's still our country. too.

[Jed Dilligan]

79. Well, enjoy your control while it lasts

and, on the way out, take a good look at the country that you're leaving us as an assessment of your generation's performance.

[Hatchling]

95. You really know how to bring people together, don't you?

I didn't vote for the administration that is destroying our country. And I haven't left the country to you yet. I want a Democrat in the WH before I die. I want to see this Republican nightmare ended. And that means I will work with anyone, black/white, man/woman, young/old to get it done. I won't dismiss the younger generation,but I won't retire just yet either.

[Jed Dilligan]

126. Hello, are you President?

I didn't say it's time for all of you to retire (though it's getting close), I said it's time for the Presidency to be handed to the next generation. 16 years is long enough for one generation to have the top job. Nothing will change until the leadership is no longer fighting the long-lost battles of the 60s-70s culture wars.

[MrsMatt]

131. Psst, Obama is a baby boomer

unless he fudged his DOB.

Baby boomers are born between 1946 and 1964.

Obama was born in 1961.

[Jed Dilligan]

156. Well, he had me fooled

he sure doesn't SEEM as old and tired and hackneyed as the Clintons.

[VotesForWomen]

87. there is truth in that; she has been so reviled, as have 'feminists' in general, that many women

don't want to have 'justify' voting for her, and defend themselves against the inevitable 'man-hating' charge, so they won't tell people they're voting for her.

[Jed Dilligan]

132. Would they go so far, in their deception,

as to approach me UNSOLICITED and tell me they were inspired by Obama's speech in Iowa and plan to vote for him?

Actually, the women in my life have begun to sway me to vote for Barack instead of "throwing it away" for Dennis.

[VotesForWomen]

134. i'm not saying that there aren't any women who truly support obama. nt

[Jed Dilligan]

137. Well, I personally find it extremely offensive

the suggestion that women are lying to me to avoid dealing with my horrible, tyrannical personality. Maybe it happens, but not to me. I'm not posting as a representative of all men.

[Hoof Hearted]

57. This one will. Now you know one. n/t

[Jed Dilligan]

66. I don't count the internet as "knowing" nt

[girl gone mad]

61. I plan to vote for her if she wins the nomination.

Now you know two.

[Jed Dilligan]

80. I'll vote for her in the GE, though I hope not to have to

If you are voting for someone else in the primary I still only "know" one.

[krabigirl]

128. I might, if Edwards drops out! (am 37, so neither young nor old.) Undecided.

[Jed Dilligan]

129. I meant in the real world, for everyone's info

I don't really count people on here as people I know. (AFAIK no one I know in the real world posts here.)

[Jed Dilligan]

26. I feel like the issues of men and women my age

are more similar than the issues of women my age and Hillary's issues. We have economic and environmental decline on our hands, and even before that massive debts to pay off, and everyone HAS to work unless you want to live on the streets. The micropolitics of a wildly successful professional career don't excite us, because we don't and probably never will have careers like that. We're all in the same boat and we are being held back by old people with old ideas and huge salaries who will never retire because they can afford the amazing new medical treatments that we will never be able to afford.

Nevertheless, for all the hardship I'm glad to live my life post-War between the Sexes, because it is the most tiresome thing I can possibly imagine.

[undercutter2006]

151. good point

class warfare > gender/race warfare

[donsu]

121. Kick

nt

[joshcryer]

41. I think it's extraoridinary that in most of the world...

...women are still treated as slaves, sex objects, people incapable of owning property or being self-actualized.

Everyone has a struggle, but there's a struggle that women around the world outside of the west (and even still to an extent in the west) participate in as a group. You can go "oh black people are opppressed" or "oh gay people are oppressed" and this is very true. But if you look at the numbers no other unique group is as oppressed than women. None.

[Jed Dilligan]

52. Show me how you quantify oppression. nt

[undeterred]

15. Can I come out in a 4 wheel drive? I don't have a drove.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

19. That's a silly statement.

It may, or may not, be true that the most oppressed human beings on the planet are women. But there are certainly vast numbers of men more oppressed than most women.

And it is certainly not true that there are no subsets of the human race who are, on average, more oppressed than women - homosexuals are an obvious one, as - to take a silly but still valid counter example - are "the oppressed".

[joshcryer]

24. No matter how you cut it women are second class citizens in most of the world.

Women have been property for quite a long time, it's about time this changed.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

27. The bit about second class citizens is certainly true.

I don't know of any countries where women are legally treated as property, although their status in much of the Islamic world isn't far off it.

[Quantess]

110. zzzzzzzzzzzzz

you know the answer to that one.
:boring:

[durrrty libby]

21. Women are the silent majority voters. They will bring Hill to the WH

Quietly and without noise they will take her over the top

[joshcryer]

28. I watch videos of Hillary and see that the vast majority of her supporters are women.

Like 70% of the audience.

[Quantess]

53. If she wins the primary, then absolutely I will vote for her!

At this time, I am undecided which Dem I will vote for. Maybe Clinton, who can say? My state's primary is so far off anyway...

[joshcryer]

55. I'm the same way, I think people are missing the intent of this post. :/

I'm not even going to vote in the primaries.

[Quantess]

58. But I do get a sense of what you're saying.

Women aren't going to vote Republican in large numbers, it is safe to say. A larger number of women are disgusted with the current administration than men.

[fletcherwalker]

30. In my neighborhood there are lots of Catholics....

I always think they are republicans because of abortion issues. I know better now. Every female neighbor is voting for Hillary. And vocal about it. One woman in her fifties who has never registered to vote did so on the last day possible for super Tuesday. Just for Hillary. I think we actually get it. Even with a news media pushing Obama down our throats, women just get it. It's our time.
Walker

[durrrty libby]

33. Yes you are correct and welcome. It will be a phenomenon

:hi:

[lumberjack_jeff]

31. Can you please elaborate?

In the interest of reducing the misery (of anyone who is oppressed anywhere in the world) It's important for americans to vote for Democrats.

I doubt that you'll see much disagreement on this point.

You seem to be trying to make another point, but it escapes me.

[joshcryer]

37. Hmm, I'm making the point that there's an insurgence of female voters in a lackluster Democracy.

This is a Good Thing.

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. I don't feel oppressed.

:shrug: And I won't vote for Hillary based on women being oppressed. Nice try.

[joshcryer]

43. I'm not arguing for you to vote for Hillary based on that.

I don't even think the women in the USA are basing it on that. I merely think that it is a good thing that the turnout of women voters is higher than it has been in the past.

But, the mere fact that you can post on the internet suggests that, yes, you are not as oppressed as most other women. Congratulations, you were born in the right place.

[Quantess]

102. That's not what this is about!

Women are more pissed off at the Bush Administration than males are, or at least, in greater numbers.

Women are going to vote Democratic!

[pingzing58]

42. Totally agree. I'm not a woman but I'm liberal and believe in actual equality for all people.

Tribal cultures in the Middle East, Africa and so many other places relegate the social position and role of women to that of slaves and possession of the males "honor killings" are common in these societies. "Who shall give this woman to this man in matrimony?" A woman who is nothing more than property is "given" to a man by the owner. Even in our so called enlightened western society women have lost much in social standing and equality to the biblical fundamentalists (a woman should be submissive to her husband, Eph 5:22; women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says, 1 Cor. 14:34; And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head, 1 Cor. 11). The Roman Catholic Church has also tried to set back the role of women in society by encouraging them to fulfill their mission: "The Bible convinces us of the fact that one can have no adequate hermeneutic of man, or of what is "human", without appropriate reference to what is "feminine". There is an analogy in God's salvific economy: if we wish to understand it fully in relation to the whole of human history, we cannot omit, in the perspective of our faith, the mystery of "woman": virgin-mother-spouse (On The Dignity and Vocation of Women, JPII)". We must be vigilant and fight for the rights of women in our society and througout the world.

[earth mom]

49. Does this mean we are "required" to vote for Hillary? Thanks but NO Thanks.

Hillary has sold her soul to the devil aka * & Co and I'm not okay with that.

I want someone who will try and take this country back from the BFEE who have stolen everything that wasn't locked down.


I want Edwards because he's the only one running for President who is willing to kick a$$ & take names! :woohoo:

[THUNDER HANDS]

50. stop, you're oppressing me!!!

i forget where that's from. Monty Python?

[The Inquisitive]

64. I think so

Arthur: Old woman!
Dennis: MAN!
Arthur: Old man, sorry. What knight lives in that castle over there?
Dennis: I'm 37.
Arthur: What?
Dennis: I'm 37, I'm not old!
Arthur: Well, I can't just call you "man".
Dennis: You could say "Dennis".
Arthur: I didn't know you were called Dennis.
Dennis: Well you didn't bother to find out, did you?
Arthur: I did say I'm sorry about the "old woman" thing, but from behind you looked...
Dennis: What I object to is you automatically treatin' me like an inferior.
Arthur: Well, I am king.
Dennis: Oh, king, eh? Very nice. And how'd you get that, then? By exploiting the workers! By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society! If there's ever going to be any progress-
Dennis' Mother: Dennis, there's some lovely filth down 'ere - Ooh! How d'ye do?
Arthur: How do you do, good lady? I am Arthur, king of the Britons. Whose castle is that?
Dennis' Mother: King of the who?
Arthur: The Britons.
Dennis' Mother: Who are the Britons?
Arthur: Well, we all are, we are all Britons and I am your king.
Dennis' Mother: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.
Dennis: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship! A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working class...
Dennis' Mother: Oh there you go, bringing class into it again!
Dennis: But that's what it's all about! If only people would realise...
Arthur: Please, please, good people. I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
Dennis' Mother: No one lives there.
Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Dennis' Mother: We don't have a lord.
Dennis: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as sort-of-executive officer for the week...
Arthur: Yes.
Dennis: ... But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting...
Arthur: Yes, I see.
Dennis:... by a simple majority, in the case of purely internal affairs...
Arthur: Be quiet.
Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
Dennis' Mother: Order, eh? Who does he think he is?
Arthur: I am your king!
Dennis' Mother: Well I didn't vote for you.
Arthur: The Lady of the Lake,... her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. That is why I am your king!
Dennis: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!
Arthur: Be QUIET!
Dennis: You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
Arthur: SHUT UP!
Dennis: If I went 'round saying I was an emperor, just because some moistend bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
Arthur: Shut up; will you SHUT UP?!
Dennis: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system!
Arthur: Shut up!
Dennis: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! HELP, HELP, I'M BEING REPRESSED!
Arthur: BLOODY PEASANT!!
Dennis: Oh, what a giveaway. Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about! Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?

[CTyankee]

136. Please tell me where you got that! It's hysterical!

I used to love Monty Python, but I don't recall that skit. It's wonderful. Tell me where I can find it and other skits of theirs!

[The Inquisitive]

157. Here is a video clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA

It's from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

[Hoof Hearted]

56. K&R #5.

[rhett o rick]

62. Maybe but they are also the softest. And I mean it in the best possible way. nm

[rhett o rick]

63. I just have one word comment ....................Barbara Bush, ewww. nm

[Alcibiades]

65. Women have voted at higher rates than men for nearly 30 years

Their voting rate was 3.8% higher than men in 2004, and it's likely to be even higher this year.

Whatever. Oppressed, vote, women. A few buzzwords to get folks going and the flame is on fire in no time, despite the fact that the OP says so little. Here's a quick little page for you folks who might actually want to consider actual trends in the voting rates of both genders before just going off. Note the graph.

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/the_gender_gap_in_turnout_like.php

All that being said, voting good, women good, women voting good, oppression of women bad.

[joshcryer]

71. Interesting stats.

I admit that I didn't know there was a slight edge in women voters, I thought it was more or less equal or even potentially with males having an edge. Now if only the stats looked like that on the political side (not the civilian side). Hopefully that will change, too. :)

And it wasn't intended as a flame, just so you know, all too many things here are taken as flames. I was only pointing out something that I personally noticed this go around. Women are really coming out in unprecendented numbers. OK so they came out a few percentage more in the past, this time around it seems like the gap that you're referencing in that link is going to widen by significant margins now.

[undercutter2006]

159. well if women vote more than men

then may be most of them don't feel that oppressed? or they would use their political power to change things pretty quickly. may be it's just a certain percentage (self proclaimed feminists) who feel oppressed (in the united states), but not the majority of women?

[BrklynLiberal]

69. Voting for Hillary because she is a woman is just as sexist as voting against her because she is a

woman.
The only non-sexist, non-racist choice is to vote for the one you think most qualified, the one who personifies your ideals and who you believe would be the best at the job....without consideration for their gender or race.

[VotesForWomen]

88. all other things being equal, it would be, but all other things are not equal, are they? nt

[joshcryer]

104. see post #43

[Horse with no Name]

130. Nobody "gets" that premise

I do 100%. I have been called some nasty things saying what you said when I have been involved in feminist activities for many years.
As I stated...I worked for years to have a woman as a candidate and not a woman candidate. Many here do not pick up on that subtlety but it is a large one, to be sure.
To follow the argument here...you are sexist if you don't like Hillary Clinton...well I am just happy as a fucking clam that Condi Rice isn't running and I would have to feel compelled to vote for her simply because she is a woman.

[joshcryer]

144. see post #43 and:

Hillary may be the one bringing women voters out in the numbers that they're coming out. They may even be voting for her because she's a woman (and that's all). I don't care about that. I care about the numbers. If it takes a woman President to bring out more voters (and even if they're only significantly female as opposed to male voters, too), I think that's a good thing.

[madeline_con]

75. I think children are. n/t

[joshcryer]

78. There are more adults than there are children, and more than half of them are women.

The numbers are pretty clear.

[madeline_con]

82. Do you have links?

Seriously, I find it hard to believe there are more adults than children, since so many women have more than one child.

edited to say: more adults than children

[joshcryer]

99. Here's one:

http://www.overpopulation.com/faq/population-age-distribution/

Here's another (google cache because it's PDF): http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:oRBcSrvcGlMJ:www.un.org/esa/population/publications/wpp2006/FS_ageing.pdf+world+population+by+age&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us&client=opera

Direct link: http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/wpp2006/FS_ageing.pdf

No doubt children are oppressed in the vast majority of the world, comparable to women. But when there are 33% of children vs 50% of females (roughly) (of which half of those children are, also!), I think the stats are clear. Others have given more important stats, I just wanted to answer your question because you asked for a link.

[madeline_con]

119. Thank you. Interesting stats. :) n/t

[VotesForWomen]

85. there really is no need to rank these things, but women are indeed oppressed and i sense

that enough of them are finally getting pissed off enough here in the good old US of A to carry hillary all the way to the white house. and what sweet revenge it would be to hear the hill-haters have to call her "Madame President."

[ursi]

92. hey! I am not a victim! I do my share of oppressing! LOL!

[joshcryer]

100. Haha, that's the spirit! ;)

[knight_of_the_star]

96. HRC has to EARN my vote, thanks

Just being a women does not ENTITLE her to the highest elected office in the land just as much as being a man does not do the same thing.

[joshcryer]

103. see post #43

[knight_of_the_star]

120. Just to point out

You might want to put that disclaimer in the OP, a LOT of Hilbots have used similar arguments to support her as well as to attack those who do not.

[Quantess]

106. I think it's pretty awesome --joshcryer, this is not about you---

that american politics is mostly based on people sitting around ripping loud farts.

[joshcryer]

147. I think our democracy, while it may be the oldest modern democracies...

...is in a state of complete and utter non-participation. The more participating, the better. And if it's women that are participating more, regardless of whom they're voting for, I consider this an extraoridinary thing given their status as humans in the vast majority of the world. It cannot change there until it changes here, imho.

[mwb970]

108. I heard a black woman talking on NPR last week.

She said she feels more discrimination and pressure as a woman than as a black person. For what it's worth.

[NorthernSpy]

112. So a white woman in America is worse off than an "untouchable" Dalit man in India?

:eyes:


There are societies that oppress women. But not all societies do this.


It's just not true that American women -- and I am one -- are oppressed on account of their sex.

[gollygee]

113. An "untouchable" Dalit woman is worse off than an "untouchable" Dalit man

that's the comparison to look at. Within any group, the women of that group are worse off.

[NorthernSpy]

114. not so...

Thing is, Dalit women aren't necessarily "more oppressed" than Dalit men. Both run the risk of suffering extreme violence if they do anything that caste Hindus might view as stepping out of their place.

[gollygee]

125. Both risk violence from outside, but the women also risk violence from the men

the women are worse off.

[Echo In Light]

115. What's truly appalling is how females are now encouraged to perceive their own sexual subjugation

...a la "girls Gone Wild" mentality as being "independent," and "feminist." How fitting for a phony democracy where everything is bass-akward like that. Yet consider how many supposed "liberals" wouldn't perceive that dynamic in, for example, a bunch of young women wearing "Hooters" shirts with jeans cut so low their pubic mound and butt crack is exposed. This is an area where many liberals and conservatives can agree: denial of the obvious psychological underpinnings within their social climate. "Eye Candy" is encouraged much the same way "liberal moderates" are encouraged; it's a vehicle for attaining unspoken/unacknowledged results.

Over here, the propagandized fairytale.

Over here, reality.

Guess which version has more believers?

[NorthernSpy]

116. choosing to dress in buttcrack jeans isn't sexual subjugation...

Sexual subjugation = other people doing things to you without your consent.

Choosing to wear buttcrack jeans = questionable taste + obnoxious behavior.

[Echo In Light]

117. You're denying the obvious cultural connection to people's mindset...

And subsequent choices/actions. People are taught via corporate instruction. They take all of their cues from a corporate/media saturated consumer culture. This largely occurs while simultaneously promoting the notion that people "choose" on their own, free from any external coercion. This is a form of subjugation i.e. bring under control

[VotesForWomen]

133. of course he is; women deserve to be oppressed because of their "choices." nt

[joshcryer]

139. Yeah, there's a stark contrast between being sexy and being sexual.

Most women fake it, and many have never even had an orgasm.

[krabigirl]

127. Damn straight

[iamthebandfanman]

135. hey, im all for more people voting

but whats it matter when ultimately they dont let us decide who we want ?

this system is corrupted to the bone, by both parties

[cutlassmama]

146. on the Earth yes. In America no. The black man is.

[robbedvoter]

148. Man before woman. Always...

:eyes:

[joshcryer]

150. I might dispute that. Black women for instance are more oppressed than black men.

If it's male vs female in every scenario, in the vast majority of societies on the planet, the females get the short end of the stick.

[zorahopkins]

153. Absolutely Correct!

It is absolutely correct that women are the most oppressed humans on the planet.

Who can doubt that?

[Marr]

158. Clinton's husband certainly helped with things like welfare "reform".

Or is his record only relevant when it reflects positively on his wife?

Hillary Clinton is about as oppressed as GW Bush. The poor are oppressed. Wealthy white people are not oppressed, no matter what their sex is. Suggesting otherwise is rather similar to GW Bush putting on a phony drawl to play like he's one of the regular "folks", frankly.