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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:37 PM
Original message
In my opinion:
Edited on Sun Jan-20-08 02:36 PM by Mythsaje
America is poised to make yet another colossal mistake. The last major one was electing George W. Bush--not once, but twice. Or, rather, giving him enough votes that it was close enough for them to steal--not once, but twice.

Now American voters, Democratic voters, are signing on to the appeal of two candidates who will again, assuming the Repukes get together to pick the "right" candidate, bring us to the point of another election that can (and probably will) be stolen.

We've got one candidate who still supports what we rightfully consider an illegal, ill-conceived war, who has no problem with them trumpeting a futile attack on another sovereign country that will not only prove to be more formidable than Iraq in every possible way, but would probably inflame the whole Middle East and generate countless more terrorists and sympathizers.

On the other hand, we've got a candidate who trumpets Reagan's ability to turn the country around and curb "the excesses of the sixties and seventies" without really bothering to explain what, precisely, those excesses might have been.

We, who have dedicated ourselves to opposing everything the Republicans stand for, are choosing two candidates who, to all appearance, don't have near as many issues with Republican policies as we should expect.

One has been demonized by the right for no discernable reason. It certainly hasn't been because she's stood in stalward opposition to what they've done, or what they contemplate now.

The other's rhetoric makes it clear he doesn't really draw that much of a distinction between Republicans and Democrats--and when he does, makes it abundantly clear that he considers the Republicans "the party of ideas for the past fifteen years."

Is that really what we want?

How many here but the admirers of the DLC "third way" "can't we all get along" contingent are unaware of the dangers that rampant monopolizing corporatism have brought us? We have skyrocketing educational costs attached to no guarantee of a good position leading from that education thanks to outsourcing, thoughtless disposal of waste products currently filling the sea with mercury and other toxins, explosive release of greenhouse gases leading to possibly irreversible climate change, toys that poison our young, food that poisons our pets, and nearly no recourse thanks to the loss of our manufacturing base and the general disinterest of those affluent enough to make the decisions that put us here.

We have had two candidates who stood in solid opposition to these policies. Who were dedicated to fighting the entrenched interests who seem to be cheerfully (and profitably) leading us down the primrose path to our near certain destruction.

Whoopee.

How have the two current front runners set themselves to oppose this ride into doom? Frankly, they haven't. Near as we can tell, they're just as dedicated to ignoring it as the Republicans. Yet they're running away with the race for the nomination while the two who might have done something to stop all of this are marginalized, mocked, and ignored.

This isn't the superbowl, people. This isn't a sporting event. This is the fate of America, the Earth, and the human race hanging in the balance.

But, by all means, continue following the blind pied piper and see where it gets us. In the meantime those of us who are watching with growing horror will be over here in the corner banging our heads on the stone wall of American indifference.

Best of luck.
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. You are suggesting we vote for John McCain?
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I can't think of an appropriate response
to such a ridiculous question.
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Then what is your solution?????
Edited on Sun Jan-20-08 01:58 PM by Bobbieo
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. We're beyond a "solution" at this point.
I just hope I'm wrong.
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. I hope you are too, but the world will keep on going and we will
Edited on Sun Jan-20-08 02:57 PM by Bobbieo
survive or we won't. Guess it depends on WHO you are!
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
34. Perhaps you should check the record for the candidates
positions on the issues... You might "get" it.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
I refuse to follow the pied piper who tells us to encourage more enabling by rewarding enablers with votes. I voted for DK Friday in early primary voting.
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. Edit - never mind
Edited on Sun Jan-20-08 01:57 PM by LeftCoast
Misread
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. Did you mean DLC "can't we all get along"? n/t
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Thanks...fixed it. n/t
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bellasgrams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. You must not be listening to Hillary and her ideas of how this
country should proceed. For one thing she keeps getting blasted for Iraq. She knew he had weapons at one time, and thought it was quite possible. Then our great leader and his whole team assured them, in detail, it was true. She has stated many times it is time to get out. She has even told that will be her top priority. My worry is Israel and Bush will get us into Iran before election time. And her vote on Iran was not a vote for pre-emptive war. You can't just vote so that Iran will think the US is weak and they can do anything and get by with it. I just hope that if Israel attacks Iran we don't run to their rescue. I think anyone presently running or anyone in Washington will help Israel if they do stir up trouble.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Well, the IWR vote was certainly a vote for pre-emptive war.
Why should the Iran vote be any different?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
40. Worst. Defense. EVER.
Hillary is NOT a Warmonger!

Hillary is just an IDIOT for believing Bush*!

Vote for the IDIOT!
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. You continue to mischaracterize what Obama said and
you seem to have little idea of who he or what he advocates and has done.

An exerpt from his speech today at Ebenezer Baptist:

I’m talking about a moral deficit. I’m talking about an empathy deficit. I’m taking about an inability to recognize ourselves in one another; to understand that we are our brother’s keeper; we are our sister’s keeper; that, in the words of Dr. King, we are all tied together in a single garment of destiny.

We have an empathy deficit when we’re still sending our children down corridors of shame – schools in the forgotten corners of America where the color of your skin still affects the content of your education.

We have a deficit when CEOs are making more in ten minutes than some workers make in ten months; when families lose their homes so that lenders make a profit; when mothers can’t afford a doctor when their children get sick.

We have a deficit in this country when there is Scooter Libby justice for some and Jena justice for others; when our children see nooses hanging from a schoolyard tree today, in the present, in the twenty-first century.

We have a deficit when homeless veterans sleep on the streets of our cities; when innocents are slaughtered in the deserts of Darfur; when young Americans serve tour after tour of duty in a war that should’ve never been authorized and never been waged.

And we have a deficit when it takes a breach in our levees to reveal a breach in our compassion; when it takes a terrible storm to reveal the hungry that God calls on us to feed; the sick He calls on us to care for; the least of these He commands that we treat as our own.

So we have a deficit to close. We have walls – barriers to justice and equality – that must come down. And to do this, we know that unity is the great need of this hour.

Unfortunately, all too often when we talk about unity in this country, we’ve come to believe that it can be purchased on the cheap. We’ve come to believe that racial reconciliation can come easily – that it’s just a matter of a few ignorant people trapped in the prejudices of the past, and that if the demagogues and those who exploit our racial divisions will simply go away, then all our problems would be solved.

All too often, we seek to ignore the profound institutional barriers that stand in the way of ensuring opportunity for all children, or decent jobs for all people, or health care for those who are sick. We long for unity, but are unwilling to pay the price.

But of course, true unity cannot be so easily won. It starts with a change in attitudes – a broadening of our minds, and a broadening of our hearts.

It’s not easy to stand in somebody else’s shoes. It’s not easy to see past our differences. We’ve all encountered this in our own lives. But what makes it even more difficult is that we have a politics in this country that seeks to drive us apart – that puts up walls between us.

We are told that those who differ from us on a few things are different from us on all things; that our problems are the fault of those who don’t think like us or look like us or come from where we do. The welfare queen is taking our tax money. The immigrant is taking our jobs. The believer condemns the non-believer as immoral, and the non-believer chides the believer as intolerant.

For most of this country’s history, we in the African-American community have been at the receiving end of man’s inhumanity to man. And all of us understand intimately the insidious role that race still sometimes plays – on the job, in the schools, in our health care system, and in our criminal justice system.

And yet, if we are honest with ourselves, we must admit that none of our hands are entirely clean. If we’re honest with ourselves, we’ll acknowledge that our own community has not always been true to King’s vision of a beloved community.

We have scorned our gay brothers and sisters instead of embracing them. The scourge of anti-Semitism has, at times, revealed itself in our community. For too long, some of us have seen immigrants as competitors for jobs instead of companions in the fight for opportunity.

Every day, our politics fuels and exploits this kind of division across all races and regions; across gender and party. It is played out on television. It is sensationalized by the media. And last week, it even crept into the campaign for President, with charges and counter-charges that served to obscure the issues instead of illuminating the critical choices we face as a nation.

So let us say that on this day of all days, each of us carries with us the task of changing our hearts and minds. The division, the stereotypes, the scape-goating, the ease with which we blame our plight on others – all of this distracts us from the common challenges we face – war and poverty; injustice and inequality. We can no longer afford to build ourselves up by tearing someone else down. We can no longer afford to traffic in lies or fear or hate. It is the poison that we must purge from our politics; the wall that we must tear down before the hour grows too late.

Because if Dr. King could love his jailor; if he could call on the faithful who once sat where you do to forgive those who set dogs and fire hoses upon them, then surely we can look past what divides us in our time, and bind up our wounds, and erase the empathy deficit that exists in our hearts.

But if changing our hearts and minds is the first critical step, we cannot stop there. It is not enough to bemoan the plight of poor children in this country and remain unwilling to push our elected officials to provide the resources to fix our schools. It is not enough to decry the disparities of health care and yet allow the insurance companies and the drug companies to block much-needed reforms. It is not enough for us to abhor the costs of a misguided war, and yet allow ourselves to be driven by a politics of fear that sees the threat of attack as way to scare up votes instead of a call to come together around a common effort.

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I couldn't help but hear the, not so veiled, slaps at his rivals in that speech
Rhetoric. Good rhetoric, but rhetoric, nonetheless. Why do I always find myself questioning the weight behind the words when I hear Obama speak. I still haven't bought into his resume enough to believe he fully represents all of the fine things he said here -- and, the fine way he said them.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I didn't hear or note any slaps at his rivals at all
Care to point out where you find them? And Obama spent 7 years working as a community organizer and civil rights lawyer. That is a part of his resume.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. this was a calculated speech. no surprise.
from your excerpt:

"Every day, our politics fuels and exploits this kind of division across all races and regions; across gender and party. It is played out on television. It is sensationalized by the media. And last week, it even crept into the campaign for President, with charges and counter-charges that served to obscure the issues instead of illuminating the critical choices we face as a nation." (as if his own campaign was blameless)



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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. That's not a slap at anyone. It's a statement of fact
he doesn't blame anyone for it. You see what you want to see. Most people, I suspect, don't read it as you do. At least not around the left side of the blogosphere. And probably no where else either.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. he was obviously talking about the recent dust-up between the campaigns
I don't know how anyone who witnessed that dust-up cannot see that he's referring to that, or trying to push off of that -- and, that he's posturing (and by extension, casting his campaign) as above exploiting the issue of race.

Some folks ignore what they want to, I suppose. Most everything these politicians do and say in this campaign is calculated and manipulative. I dunno, maybe you look just fine in those rose-colored glasses.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Not "misrepresenting" anything...
I'm relaying MY perceptions of what he said, and the perceptions of a lot of us.

Ignore it all you want, that's not to be dismissed.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Fortunately, judging from the reaction to this speech
at other sites, you are in the minority.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. We already knew that.
And that's the problem in a nutshell.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. That's a beautiful speech. It truly is, and one I could rally around if...
he was more clear in HOW he seeks to bring about that unity. Do you believe, personally, that the corporatocracy will broaden their hearts and minds to accept compromise?

If Obama talked more about holding people accountable, I could be more on board with him.

We DO need a shift in attitude across the board to become a healthier nation, but unless he says something to make those who are genuinely CORRUPT fear him and his message, I truly believe he will be ineffective - or not effective enough, fast enough.

That said, anything will be an improvement over Bushco.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. You can't sell corporate responsibility
to the irresponsibly powerful.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Can't sell it, can't beg for it, can't send positive vibes for it. I agree. n/t
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. He's not suggesting compromise with the corporatocracy
and I think he's been clear about that. He's trying to build a big enough popular movement to have his back and help him force change. And I see him as very much a fighter- a smart fighter who doesn't telegraph his next move. I realize other people don't see him that way, but I see him as tough as nails, and smart as hell about how he fights. That speech isn't only beautiful; it's tough.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Then it comes back to how we all can legitimately see things differently...
based on our life experiences and different perspectives. The old ink blot test example.

I'd help in having his back if he talked in the debates more about being tough with those not willing to amicably compromise. I know they're limited in the debates, but still...I just haven't "gotten" that from him. Just my observation. Maybe he'll start going in that direction in the subsequent debates.


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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Right...we're not hearing the right things
and it's OUR fault.

Hmmm. Don't you love how that works?
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AmBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
38. All the king's horses, all the kings men...
...and Obama'as pretty words for icing on top won't make Republicans have empathy and compassion for the other side. No matter how lovely his pontifications are. Period.

I'm afraid all his starry-eyed supporters are in for a whopping big surprise. I wish they weren't. But this is what happens when the media has control of our collective national conscience and the masses refuse to realize they can actually think for themselves if they choose to.
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. But, but, but the Democrats
are sooooo much better than the Republicans, because, see, we nominated a woman or a black man for President. And, I am shocked that a place like DU has so many that support that type of thinking. Because really, this country is in shambles. It's a country wide Katrina after the Bush years, and some people think that draining the water and slapping on some paint will solve the problem. I don't know if I will laugh or cry, when a year from now another repub will be sworn in.

zalinda
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Still loving your Katrina comparison of the candidates from the other thread
:hi:
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. In my opinion
you are tragically right.

And another DU, at another time, would have been right with you.
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #10
37. Your post truly saddens me
We've really gone off the deep end, haven't we? (though not you, don't you live in Canda you lucky one?)
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. I have to give the Republicans credit for something
At least they are honest about their positions, unlike the DLC who can't seem to admit that they are no different.

With that bunch and their back room 'negotiating', any appeal to the left is all for show.

One way or another, we can be sure of this -- DLC or Republican -- the status quo remains.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
20. Needless worries. Progressive groups rate Hillary high on environment, human rights, etc.
Edited on Sun Jan-20-08 02:46 PM by Perry Logan
The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. I'd dearly love to be wrong.
I guess we'll see, won't we?
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Bright Eyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
33. If I could recommend this post more then once, I would!
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
35.  I'm afraid you are right .
i have watched and waited for just one thing to come out of the Dem front runners that instills some sort of out right oppositon to what the bush admin has done to this country and so far I fail to see it .

I got a Hillary pamplet in the mail today for calif , there are 5 issues mentioned .

1. end the bush war on science and reverse the bush restrictions on stem cell research .

2. lead an apollo-like project to move america toward energy independence . this refers to bio fuels and renewable energy and requires car to get 55 mpg by 2030 and creat 5 million green collar jobs from clean energy over the next decade . Well being 59 by 2030 they will surely remove me from the road by 2030 .

3. combat global warming and transition to a clean , green economy . not sure what this means , are they also combating the transition to a clean , green economy or have I read this all wrong . This is to reduce green house gas by 80% from 1990 levels by 2050 . By 2050 I will be long reduced to carbon dust .

4. re-establish america's place as the world leader in ideas , discoveries and innovation by renewing our commitment to basic science .. This refers to doubling the federal investment in basic research but does not state what the investment by the fed is now so double could be $2 not $1 .

5. prepare the next generation of american innovators with renewed emphasis on math and science education this refers to math , science and engineering and support to bring women and minorities into these professions .

That's it , no mention at all of all the issues that really brought about these problems or the theft or the media or the corporate strangle hold that will continue to prevent any of these from being realized . No mention of the trillions wasted on war or anything else that we face right now .

Now granted this is a promo sent in the mail but what does this indicate to me , what does this mean in reality and how will we get there . I have absolutely no idea .

I do know if we don't stop the madness this relates to a pipe dream . I read this and thought , well that's nice and set it aside , nothing here to think about .

We need money and schools and teachers and on and on to even consider this as even a slight possibility and it's not coming from the corporate tax cuts .
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. NO mention of healthcare, NO mention of jobs, NAFTA, etc?
WHY am I not surprised.
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smokey nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
36. Kick!!!
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