It amazes me how many posters seem to believe they're driving the election from here at DU

[bigtree]

I think we're mostly just talking to ourselves . . . and a few sick freepers. We do catch the attention of some newbies and some surfers. And, undoubtably, there are journos who look in for inspiration and to catch our drift. But I don't really think that a large part of our advocacy, or our little spats, have all that much impact beyond DU. Certainly the potential is there for a spark of interest which catapults into a movement or some action, but that's got to be just a fraction of the posts here which go that far.

I could be wrong. I do see Time for Change's posts when I search Google news . . .

I come here to get writing ideas and vent. I get pretty animated around elections, and DU has just enough political action to keep me from ranting non-stop. I like reading other's reactions to events and happenings that I and others post. I don't have any serious, official affiliations or assignments (past or present) which compel me to come here. It beats talking to the dog or hollering into the empty air. Just some perspective on my own experience here for those who have questions about some of the advocacy they see here at DU, for what it's worth.

[robcon]

1. I agree. Some DUers seem to think what they write matters.

It's just a fun political site.

[tekisui]

2. A hobby more than anything.

Have fun everybody!

[robcon]

4. ...and intellectually stimulating, and getting challenged to defend one's ideas.

That's the importance for me.

[bigtree]

5. It's been an indispensable sounding board for mine

I can't count the times I've been put on my ass or corrected. I'm usually red-faced, but, ultimately, grateful.

[bigtree]

3. I do think that there is an opportunity for some writing here to expand beyond DU

but, I've come to believe that, although we're a pretty large community with posters from all around the world, most of the stuff which gets folks here all fired up, stays here. Some of the inspirational stuff (and the investigative stuff) does seem to flow beyond our community's borders . . .

[Skwmom]

43. Well if it didn't matter, I don't think political campaigns would

have paid bloggers working the boards or that so many would try to discourage anyone from posting.

[EV_Ares]

6. Agreed here; as above posters have said, maybe a hobby for some, makes some

people feel important, some are probably sincere in their politics, in some cases, it is apparent, a sense of power the way some talk to others here. It is kind of fun to pass the time as well and read the posts, chime in once in a while.

No, I don't think DU drives the election by any means.

[Echo In Light]

7. The American system works on controlling thought/perceptions

Only repubs and right-leaning dems disagree with this ... for the obvious reasons.

The corporate media has been in a tizzy over loss of readership/viewership due to alternative/indie media online. So with that level of power on the line, you can bet there are those whose job it is is to keep their finger on the pulse of the people. Do I think that's tantamount to posters determining elections? No. But there have been high profile examples of how the mainline media got it wrong, and it was pointed out by bloggers, and reached higher public awareness than what certain powers like.

[bigtree]

8. I've seen that kind of impact from here, from time to time

And, I think it's very important, special and valuable that we're having these conversations. It's a coalition of opposition to Bush and his republicans here which is pretty unique in it's breadth and depth of knowledge and interest.

But, I think some here take the impact of the petty posts (more than a few of my own) a little too seriously . . .

[EV_Ares]

9. Good points made there. The MSM I think hated a lot of the bloggers and blogs because they

were correcting the media and are kind of a watchdog for them & have been keeping the media on their toes somewhat. You go to a lot of those sites and you get good info of which I am sure you are familiar from your post. I think the OP is seeing here as a lot of us do if you just go down the posts a lot of bickering, juvenile name calling so much fighting, it lessens the credibility of the forum so much. Not as much info but a lot of fighting. But, yes, blogs are a great source of information.

[Echo In Light]

10. Understood. It's up to everyone to BE the media n/t

[NewJeffCT]

11. DU is certainly not that influential, even compared to other LW blogs

We're certainly second tier when compared to DailyKos, HuffingtonPost and a few other sites, and even they have limited influence - however, at least they have people getting onto TV and radio as guests

However, DU is usually a good sounding board for ideas and I like the message forum/bulletin board format better than I like the blog format of Kos.

[EV_Ares]

13. Yeah, Markos is on a lot anymore and I think Kos has really gained in

influence. Like you I like this format better as the Kos format is hard to navigate until you get used to it but the discussions are way more civil and informative. I read the Huff Post more than anything, almost see it as Our Drudge sometimes. One other one you might like is this one:

http://www.tpmcafe.com/

[NewJeffCT]

20. TPM is a good one, too

They were big on the firing of the US attorneys, if I recall.

Kos & Huff have a multitude of well-known posters - people running for office regularly have diaries on Kos, while HuffingtonPost offers a forum for a lot of liberal pundits.

[bigtree]

14. I think the access HuffPo and Kos have has something to do with the celebrity association

Daily Kos, to the founder's credit, generated that notability on their own initiative, but it still seems like the elevation of what comes from these 'leading' blogs has the same issues of access and control that all media suffers from. DU is remarkable in its ability to allow the content to remain so wide ranging and open and still attract the high caliber of posts that I think we enjoy. The open atmosphere produces countless writing gems, not a small amount of significant organizing, and an investigative sense of purpose that, I think, is unmatched.

[spanone]

12. you mean we're not election central?????

dammit :hi:

you are correct bigtree

[NavyDavy]

15. hate to spoil you rant...but there are a few campaigns that have

workers checking here to see what issue are getting the most attention...my nephew works at one of the top 3 dem candidates office
in Ohio, and he does come here and compiles a list of issues for his supervisor.....may not have any affect but they do come here and read the post

[bigtree]

16. no rant here. Appreciate the perspective

kinda looking for some rebuttal . . . I'd like to know of the impacts. My wife is always reminding me that little impacts sometimes snowball into bigger ones.

[NavyDavy]

17. no problem....was just joking about the rant part

[Atman]

19. I was going to post something similar

Although I don't have any nephew working for any campaign. But it's foolish to completely write-off the impact of DU and sites like it. Kos and Bradblog and Raw Story are quoted by right-wing media blowhards, and -- oh wait! So is DU! As I pointed out in another thread just last night, yours truly has even had a post read and "discussed" on Rush Limpball's show. So while we may not be a driving force, neither is any one voter. It's the sum of all the parts that matters.

.

[Echo In Light]

23. And the obvious aspect is that Big Brother, Inc is spying on millions...for what?

...other than "unpatriotic" dissent? Just another way of infiltrating activist groups.

[INdemo]

18. What we need here on DU is

a "Freeper filter".....

[L. Coyote]

25. INDEED! Too many ratfu**kers on the ship.

[NoPasaran]

21. You'll be singing a different tune when Lee Mercer Jr. is inaugurated

[progressoid]

22. What?

I thought they all read and listened to us. The DNC, DLC, DCCC, Reid, Pelosi, etc.

Jeez, now I'm beside myself. :(

[L. Coyote]

24. Threads can rise very high in Google rank almost instantly, if and only if

they have the correct keywords. Google is crawling DU non-stop because this is a busy place in constant flux. If you want your message to reach beyond DU, you need to understand how search engines rank pages. It helps to have good links, for example, not links to obscure, unranked pages, but above all else good keywording to match search terms. Journalists do look in on DU, but mostly, I suspect non-users do online research and turn up DU.

Also, there are a lot of DUers making sure DU is not ranked high. Use of vulgar language and specific words literally KILL any chance a thread will be served up by Google. Some threads are bombed by "f**k," et.al. almost as soon as they gain some momentum.

We are mostly talking to ourselves, but we are not an island on another planet.
DUers are part of society, and they take what they read here into the larger realm.
If we only keep ourselves informed, we have accomplished enough!

At the same time, we must not be deluded into thinking the world actually reads what we write.
Indeed, above all else, this is a place where people vent, not change other opinions.

[Echo In Light]

27. Agree to an extent. There is however HIGHLY suspicious reasons for govt SPYING

On American's internet activity. That's clearly being done to monitor levels of dissent.

[bigtree]

30. I'm still not sure how Time for Change's (excellent) DU journal always ranks on Google's news page

but, I have seen plenty of my own posts here pop up on the regular web pages when I search

[Neshanic]

26. So if it is so irrelevant, your post is for what? Tell us you feelings on something that does

not matter to you?

Maybe talking to the dog would help in your case.

[bigtree]

28. I never said DU was (so) irrelevant

. . . just a little reading through the thread would help

My dog is an excellent listener. And, very polite.

[Neshanic]

29. I agree, they always are the best listeners.

[conspirator]

31. We know internet activism is very limited. And you wasted bandwidth to tell us that? n/t

[robbedvoter]

32. Yup. First Edwards won it all, then Obama. Discussion is good - helps people

get informed and maybe even settle their priorities. it will help me make my mind by February 5. But we are a small group of people - hardly a sample of the electorate to boot.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. We're only important because we're fond of telling ourselves we are.

[Freddie Stubbs]

34. If it were, Edwards and Kucinich would be viable candidates

[Redhead7]

35. I disagree

I think that most activism and ultimately change started with groups of like minded people started talking with each other. There is great motivation that comes from discussing your thoughts and ideas with people and finding out that they feel the same way. From that, a leader may take that motivation and propel it outside of this comfort zone into the outside world and hopefully achieve a movement towards change. Also, I would bet that candidates are viewing discussions as well. So I do believe this type of discussion has to happen in order for there to be change.

[bigtree]

36. as a springboard for ideas and activism, I think you're right

It's hard to measure that effect from where we sit, but I don't doubt that what you say is correct, to some degree. The squabbles, the trivial (moi), and the ridiculous posts, to an insignificant degree, I think.

[uppityperson]

39. I agree with all that.

As a springboard, it is good. For those who like to sit around and snark at each other, well, it keeps them off the streets harassing others.

[FlyingSquirrel]

37. We should all shut up and stop doing fund raisers too.

I'm sure John Edwards didn't really appreciate the $300,000 on Friday which many of us contributed to either financially or by talking it up or both.

Honestly, I'm tired of threads like this that either say why everyone on DU sucks or is stupid or is saying the wrong things.

[bigtree]

38. maybe you could point out where I said ANY of that

try and read through the thread before you settle on these ridiculous straw men.

[EV_Ares]

40. Man, where did you read any of that. I would say if the thread upset you that

much, pass on by. Actually you did verify what the poster actually did say.

[eridani]

41. Actually, we really do realize that corporate money is driving the election

But do we have to like it?

[Le Taz Hot]

42. Yes and no.

I know we're read by many politico staffers and I've often heard terms originally used on DU used, months later, by people on TV. I think they pick up areas of concern from blogs and message boards, including DU as a way to keep in touch with the little people. Do we influence policy? I'll just point to Pelosi and Reid and let you decide that one.

[Time for change]

44. I'm glad to hear that you see my posts on Google -- thanks for mentioning it

I have no idea how right you are about what you say here.

But here's the way I look at it: It's a lot like voting, only moreso. Nobody honestly believes when they go to vote that their single vote will make the difference in an election. The odds against that are lower than the odds of winning a million dollars in a lottery. Nor do we think that our $10 or $100 contribution will make the difference. But we vote anyhow because we consider it our responsibility -- and it just might make the difference.

The same thing can be said when we talk to people or when we blog on DU. We say things and we hope that what we have to say will make a difference to some people who hear us or read us. That applies to those who read our posts on DU, and also what we say here sometimes gets picked up and spread around elsewhere, even when we don't necessarily see it. For example, people sometimes get ideas from our posts that they use to spread around to their friends and family.

[bigtree]

45. my wife reminds me of what you say here, often

little pebbles . . .

I do want you to know that it's been pretty consistent that your journal is listed with a current article. Some early glitch, maybe, got your journal recognizable by their automatic trolls. But, it's a blast to see 'Time for change' posts as articles, ranking with others in the Google search, and linked to your journal. Great potential . . .