As an Atheist, my government out right rejects me.

[Blarch]

I look around and realize that I don't fit in here, the country that is.

The President of the USA came to my town and told me he didn't consider me a citizen or a patriot, NOBODY stood up for me, not the dems, not the repubs...NOBODY

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm


Does anyone ever get the feeling that they just don't belong here ? ...or even welcome here ?

[Taverner]

1. California is the only place that I feel I belong, as an Atheist

[krabigirl]

79. Me too. The rest of the country will come around, one day, to accepting all types.

and perhaps becoming more skeptical...

[mac2]

94. The new century showed hope until it was "Bushed".

Instead of being a "uniter" he has divided us so he can win. The elite always do that for power.

[Mythsaje]

2. A cretin's opinion is worthless.

I'm a militant agnostic pantheist married to a pagan. They don't give a shit about MY kind either.

Fuck 'em.

[JackRiddler]

35. This is a cretin-in-chief, remember?

His opinion sadly does matter; and it reflects that of cretins with hegemony over the culture.

[RubyDuby in GA]

3. In Bush's America, we aren't welcome, but fuck him - it's my country too

And in my America, he's not welcome.

It's far worse when you live in the Bible belt. Trust me.

[mac2]

17. I understand

Many folks in the Bible belt use that religious banter to just fit in. They don't want to be considered "different". That religious persona is used to sell everything from cars to local political agenda.

It was rather intrusive to me when they asked what church I belonged to. I told them I was Catholic (which I wasn't but after that they left me alone).

One business man in E. Tennessee told me if a sales person came to his place of business and started preaching while trying to sell him something...he threw them out. He didn't trust them since he'd been ripped off so many times by that type person.

We should do the same thing with any political candidates. It is a false persona to make us think they are honest.

[Warpy]

4. I've felt that way for the 20 years I've been declared "uninsurable."

I can't get health insurance for any amount of money in this country.

Our health care system isn't just broken, it's turned downright evil.

This country hates women, children, gays, poor people, working people, atheists, and anyone who isn't a 35 year old male in perfect health at the peak of his earning capacity.

It's almost enough to make me want to return the favor.

[tekisui]

5. Fuck bush.

and his *god*.

What assholes.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

6. Holy Fuck, Did He Seriously Say That?????

That's fuckin disgraceful.

[Blarch]

8. This was Bush sr.

and yes, he came to my town and told me I was not a citizen...yet he still wants my taxes.

[Birthmark]

7. Don't sweat it.

I've been an atheist since 1974 or so, you get used to it.

[niyad]

9. as a practicing pagan, I am pretty much in the same siutation.

AND, I live right down the road from fungus (aka "focus on the family") and the homophobic "new life church",

the mayor of this benighted city actually REFUSED to sign a proclamation when the atheists had their conference here, but showed up for some xian function.

[yardwork]

10. As a Pagan, I'm not exactly popular with government either.

And that's wrong, because the U.S. Constitution gives us the right to choose our own spiritual path, or none.

It's a laugh to hear Christians complain that they are "being oppressed" when our entire society is centered around their religion.

However, the squatter-in-the-White-House's statement that "atheists shouldn't be considered as citizens" is really appalling.

[Blarch]

11. Sorry it was Sr.

I have now posted a link.

again, sorry.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss

[yardwork]

14. There's not a lot to choose between them, really.

[mac2]

133. When they compare Obama to Kennedy and MLK

I have to wonder if they looked up his voting record.

[reggie the dog]

69. aint it funny

that the factory doors close, round the time that the school door close, round the time that a hundred thousand jail cells fly wide open to greet us, like the reaper....

[NMMNG]

40. You're not popular with many

You're evil, you know, and cause innocent Christian children to stray from God and worship the devil, etc, etc. :rofl:

[mac2]

12. Religion or no religion does not belong in government

policy. It was what our founding fathers wanted for our democracy so we would not be victims of religious tryanny. Our present "fathers" have broken that important contract with its citizens.

You'd be surprise how many Americans are fed up with these religious groups. I feel they lost their support so have to get our tax dollars to survive. When you read the 2000 census regarding chruch membership you can see they aren't as numerous as they make out.

Many people believe in a God but they don't go to church regularly.

[kysrsoze]

62. Anti-atheism is just the tip of the iceberg. It's about squashing any form of free thought

You can't feel too special in your persecution, you atheists (though you're alright with me). The ruling class simply wants a bunch of brainwashed goose-stepping fascist wannabe's, and is willing to supply a scapegoat for them to attack. You can join the ranks of intellectuals, free thinkers, muslims, "liberals," minorities, Jews, communists, socialists, single mothers, pacifists, gays, etc. Fundies and right-wingers hate us all.

It is all about dividing everyone and conquering independent thought. So long as you have an enemy of the day/week/year to for all of your mindless sycophants to hate, some kind of Emmanuel Goldstein, you have a large group of people ready to swallow whatever you want to jam down their throats.

Truth is that anyone who is different in some way can be singled out and, at the very least, verbally attacked or shunned. It's great fun for right-wingers and fundies alike. It's about time we ALL stopped thinking about how uniquely we've been singled out, getting over it and working with each other to stop all this sickness.

Truth is, any decent person would recognize and be happy about the differences between people. This would be a really crappy, boring world if everyone was the same. Fundies/right-wingers want exactly that because they're crappy, boring people. Think about it.

[mac2]

90. It's my way or the highway mentality

[water]

13. He seriously said atheists shouldn't be considered citizsens!!?!?!?

[NMMNG]

50. He really did

At least he didn't say we should be killed like some have.

[dysfunctional press]

120. george sr., not lil'boots.

nt

[stillcool]

15. Those in government..

must just love all the divisions in this country. They can give lip service to all the different fighting factions, while at the same time doing only what they need to assure the right money goes in the right pockets.

[mac2]

20. They work for all citizens and support the Constitution.

[stillcool]

30. since when?

The book below, as well as many other titles is available for free download due to it's copyright expiration: http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0303critic/0303socialcriticism.html
Lundberg, Ferdinand. The Rich and the Super Rich. New York: Lyle Stewart, 1968.

Shows with overwhelming evidence who rules and specifically how they rule. Although decades have passed since this book was written and the individuals have changed, the families in power haven't changed. This book allows someone with perceptiveness to look through the news, peek behind distractions of current events and see what probabably is really happening. OUT OF PRINT

[mac2]

59. I'm just saying what their duty is not what they do under Bush, Inc.

[clixtox]

82. The most recondite book about our political/economic reality...

I ever read. I read it when it was published in the 60s and it opened my eyes to how we were being controlled and exploited and kept basically oblivious. Read the first few pages... It tells it like it is and ever was!

Wow, almost 40 years ago since I read it and little has changed in the dynamics working to maintain the status quo.

[stillcool]

86. I don't think its possible.

to read that book and not have your entire perception of Government changed. I wish he could write another chapter on "Where they are now". It seems through the years those 2%'ers have gotten much more anonymous.

[mac2]

96. Status quo in America

Rule by the elite through lies and division.

[gratuitous]

16. Now, just you sit quietly

And wait for Mr. Bush to recognize your humanity. There's a good boy. Or girl. Ah, who cares? Follow the example laid down by the Negroes and the Women, and wait your turn. Don't get uppity. Don't advocate for yourself. Just wait patiently. That's nice; real nice. Thanks for not asking for anything.

Maybe you should say a prayer?

[Hamlette]

18. This was Poppy, not baby Bush. Said it years ago. n/t

[VotesForWomen]

28. does that make a difference? he knows his audience and he's not alone. nt

[ladjf]

19. In certain real ways atheists are discriminated against more

than any other group of Americans.

[MindPilot]

110. Seven states' constitutions prohibit Atheists from holding public office

One state--Texas IIRC--requires "an acknowledgment of a higher power" to serve on a jury.

There are lots of victims of institutionalized discrimination, but only non-believers have theirs codified into law.

[kineneb]

21. wonder what he thinks about Buddhists?

In essence, Buddhism is atheist, as it is more of a way of life than a religion. Belief or non-belief in one/many deities is irrelevant to one's enlightenment.
They may exist, they may not exist. Does not matter.

[mac2]

23. Bush said it himself

He's involved in a Christan\Judo crusade. All other religious or none groups are to heel to this belief of his.

Add that to the list of Constitutional abuses he's made since stealing office.

[onenote]

37. this was bush sr.

[mac2]

56. No it was President Bush today

God spoke to him.

[eridani]

64. I'd call it nontheistic

There's a difference between "illiterate" and "nonliterate" also, and between "irrational" and "nonrational."

To me, atheism implies a specific rejection of belief. Nontheism implies that belief is irrelevant. In the case of Taoism, irrelevant to the question of how to live in harmony with the Tao; in the case of Confucianism, irrelevant to the problem of figuring out the best ethical rules for social organization; in the case of Buddhism, irrelevant to achieving enlightenment.

[immoderate]

74. There's a difference between "a-" and "im-" too.

You might be thinking of anti-theist. The prefix "a-" means without. A person who has never heard of god is an atheist. Where's the "specific rejection of belief?"

--IMM

[eridani]

75. They probably haven't heard the term 'atheist' either

I always associate the term 'atheism' with people who think it's important to have an opinion one way or another, and 'nontheism' with people to whom the question doesn't mean much. But maybe I shouldn't mistake my own perceptions for universal ones either.

[immoderate]

76. I can't say that you are wrong.

And like you, I don't know what universal perceptions would be. (And again we find ourselves in a discussion that is about what words mean.)

Most of the atheists around here and other groups I participate in would fall under your definition of nontheism. Theists generally frame it as atheists "reject" god. That's because they think there's a god.

Atheists think that the concept of god challenges rational thought, and contradicts what we can observe of reality. It's not that we have an opinion that there is no god, it's that we have the opinion that notions of god don't make sense, and god would be superfluous to the universe as we understand it. (I wrote a piece here a while back, listing things that god used to do like weather, and earth quakes, and disease, things for which we now have natural explanations. All that's left for god to do is oversee sports events and sex.)

The term atheist, I grant, would not exist if there were not theists. Nevertheless, it is the normal state, if eschewing irrational beliefs is normal.

--IMM

[eridani]

78. Nontheists don't necessarily think that the concept of God challenges reason

A friend of mine was working on his koan and asked his roshi whether he should just throw out traditional Western standards of reason. {i]Roshi replied "Throw out reason and non-reason."

[immoderate]

85. What would you expect from a roshi?

:)

--IMM

[Sarah Ibarruri]

22. That's because it's not your government... it's the government of Bible-banging, fascist whackos. nt

[Jed Dilligan]

24. What if you're not an atheist by choice?

What if there was no God in your upbringing and attempts to make you believe just leave you cold? Whether it's a good or bad thing, that's my situation. So I guess I can stop paying taxes now? :shrug:

[Arugula Latte]

36. I always thought it was weird when people are angered by others' lack of "faith."

If you don't think something is true, if you think, generally, it's a big steaming load of hooey, how are you going to FORCE yourself to accept it on "faith"? It can't be done.

[mac2]

63. They want someone else to justify their belief

[DFW]

67. Quote from Star Wars:

"I find your lack of faith disturbing."

--Darth Vader

[ben_meyers]

25. Not only that but

The entire Chicago political press corps was there, along with members of the White House press corps and national news reporters, but no reporter thought that this anti-atheist bigotry was sufficiently newsworthy to do anything with it, other than me.

None of these other reporters recorded this or thought to report it, amazing.

From Rob Shermans (the reporter who it as said to) website.

http://robsherman.com/information/liberalnews/2002/0303.htm

[qb]

26. If Al Gore were president...

From Newsweek, Feb 7, 2000
Asked whether it would bother him if an atheist became president, Gore said, "No, it would not. I think that it would depend on who the person was, of course. But do I believe that someone can have an understanding of our Constitution a true spirit of tolerance without affirming a particular and specialized belief in God? Yes, I do. I think that is incumbent upon anyone who affirms a respect for tolerance."

[Blarch]

27. Thats refreshing

[leftofthedial]

29. after 50 years as a hardcore patriot

I hate this country


and apparently the feeling is mutual

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

31. You know those Christians who say they're being oppressed?

Yeah, well, I'm not going to subscribe to that either.

[Fire Walk With Me]

32. I believe in God. I accept you. I welcome you. I hope that you have the best life that you can.

So long as you aren't hurting others, you're fine by me.

[mac2]

33. MLK loved you and fought for your rights

http://www.humaniststudies.org/enews/?id=333&article=0

[Arugula Latte]

34. Is anyone getting the feeling there are a lot more of us atheists than they thought?

It's just a sense I get, partly from the success of a few recent books like "The God Delusion," but also partly from what I see on the Internet. The anonymity of the web allows people to post what they wouldn't tell their neighbors -- that they think belief in an omnipotent deity is on par with belief in the tooth fairy.

[pitohui]

54. i think most people are functional atheists, you just can't admit it for social reasons

if you look around you, you see very few people who actually believe in god and most who do, if we're honest with ourselves, are not our intellectual equals (yes, there are exceptions, there are a few smart people who believe in god, but honestly? no, most sharp people don't have time for that crap and we all know that MOST of the believers we personally know are morons but it's like we're all in this unspoken conspiracy not to admit it for social reasons)

i think if most people were able to be open, they would be revealed as atheists, but for practical reasons, obviously we can't go around saying so

[Arugula Latte]

55. I know a lot of pretty intelligent people who say they believe in "god" -- but they

can never explain it to me. They don't believe in the traditional god of the fundies. It's usually more like a vague, nebulous life force. I usually say: "Oh, well, that's what I'd call 'Nature.'"

When you start trying to pin down people about "god," most of the ones who aren't idiots really can't give you an answer.

The ones who are idiots are the ones who say things like "God is obviously a giant bearded man who lives in Heaven where he rules from his throne with angels hovering around Him."

[mac2]

57. That's why it's none of your business and their private business

to believe as they wish. You are imposing your belief of the definition of God in your mind. Leave them alone. This is democracy.

[Arugula Latte]

60. Well, I'm not the one going to people's houses and knocking on their doors

and telling them they're going to burn in Hell for all Eternity. That would be the religious people doing that.

The conversations I'm describing are the type of talk that comes up at dinner parties after a couple bottles of wine. It's very low key, not antagonistic at all.

[reggie the dog]

71. not a democracy, a republic

In a democracy tyranny of the majority is fine. The USA is a republic in which certain rights are inalienable, even if the majority does not support those rights.

[mac2]

91. Free to be as long as it doesn't hurt others

[reggie the dog]

105. one would hope so

but sadly the USA has never lived up to its ideals for all of its people.

[mac2]

107. Yes...democracy has many more miles to go

I had high hopes for the new century but Bush put us back to the Dark Ages. We shouldn't accept that.

The new generation coming up seems to be more accepting of gay lifestyle. Even the ancients were more accepting (because it is a human condition).

The modern religions seem to have gone off their course to divide us and create hate. They need to look at their own hypocritical lives. The Bible was created by man with all his loves and bigotry. King James made his own Bible and interpretation so taking it literally is just plain wrong. You know the old saying...he who has the gold rules?

How many clergy\politicans live in fear because of their homosexuality? I believe this administration puts them in office so they can bribe them.

Even the texts of some of the Jewish holy books don't give them the right to rule the world, etc. (while some Zionists feel it is stated as such).

[mac2]

58. That's why it's none of your business and their private business

to believe as they wish. You are imposing your belief of the definition of God in your mind. Leave them alone. This is democracy.

[NMMNG]

38. Absolutely

An LTTE recently claimed that the “Constitution doesn’t protect atheists".

And if you pay a visit to Fundies say the Darndest Things you'll see all forms of hatred for atheists, including death threats.


But all we seem to see around here are complaints of "Christian persecution". I'd like to see them walk a mile in a gaytheists shoes.

[mac2]

93. No religion is implied

[NMMNG]

103. Indeed it is

Sadly some want to believe the non-religious are excluded, and (as GHWB said) shouldn't even be citizens or have rights. Bigotry is deplorable.

[mac2]

106. Congressman Jessie Jackson, Jr.

says citizens don't have the right of the vote in the Constitution. He even wants to amend the Constitution for it. People aren't ready to amend the Constitution for him or the leader in power who would veto against it taking away or changing our rights.

Guess only blacks and women have the right of the "vote" because of the amendments to the Constitution? What are they thinking? It clearly says, the people should select.."elect\pick\appoint" their own representatives. Does the word "vote" have to be there to be legal?

I'm really sick of the Congress trashing and turning the Constitution around because it doesn't include certain words...like "humans" regarding corporate power, etc. Our founding fathers took us to war to fight corporate power (East India Trading Corporation) why would they want any corporation to have more power than a person? Common Sense seems to have taken leave of our leaders (and the Supreme Court).

Jessie hangs onto his profession as a clergy while serving as a representative. I told him to pick one or the other since it violates the Separation of Church and State. His self interest in his religion seems to be in the Constitution but he ignores that one?

I personally will not vote for any clergy since they are self interested. We have enough of that in Congress right now with Faith Based cronyism. I deplore both parties doing politicing in our houses of worship. Both tread on our rights and democracy.

[MindPilot]

128. And every newspaper in the country is ready and willing

to lend its op-ed pages to letter writers, giving them a platform from which they can say things about Atheists that would never see the light of day were they said about any other group.

[DemGa]

39. Bush is not the government; Bush is not the USA

I already don't care for the Bushes, I certainly don't care about their opinions.

[Blarch]

41. The problem is...

The president of the USA said these words...

and nobody stood up to call him on it.

[NMMNG]

44. Of course they didn't

Because we are a Christian Nation. One Nation Under God. And atheists are just a tiny minority. An immoral, godless minority. I don't know how they can even know not to kill people without an objective morality. :sarcasm:

[DemGa]

45. A quote like that of Bush Sr. would spread quickly now

in the age of the internets. If something like that were said now, they would likely be forced to back off. Why? Because the PEOPLE would be informed. How many people even heard of that quote from an O'Hare Airport news conference? I doubt many did.

But anyway, that's more a weakness of the Press, not a validation that the government or people supports Bush's opinion on the matter.

[SecularNATION]

42. Fight Back

"Does anyone ever get the feeling that they just don't belong here? ...or even welcome here?"

Blarch, take heart. Atheists are rising. The best thing for you, and other non-believers, to do is speak out. Simply that. Don't be afraid to say you don't believe. I have no respect for cowardly atheists who, for fear of losing something(usually money or "friends"), remain silent. That silence helps enable the Bible thumping zealots marginalize the rest of us. Don't be one of the silent.

[johnaries]

43. I'm a Taoist. most people don't even know what that is. n/t

[ToeBot]

84. Or even how to pronounce it. nt

[Chovexani]

46. Look at my sig line.

Every fucking day. But I don't let that stop me.

[NMMNG]

49. Very nice sig line

:applause:

And people clearly haven't learned anything from their alleged super-fabulous LGBT/atheist/non-white/whatever friends. That's clear from their posts.

[Chovexani]

52. (R)amen!

I have seen more ignorance on this site in the past 6 months than I have in the past 6 years. Craziness.

People need to stop screaming so much about being offended by the people they offend and fucking listen.

[otherlander]

47. I'm an atheist.

I don't feel like I fit in. But the fact that I'm an atheist has nothing to do with it. I just plain old don't fit in.

Bush is a dumbass. His opinion means nothing to me. But then again, patriotism doesn't really mean anything to me either. How can people feel an emotional attatchment to something as abstract as a group of states?

[babsbunny]

48. I still love you!

The Government would reject me too if they knew what I believed! This is America! We can believe what we want!

[Oeditpus Rex]

51. No — I get the feeling that anyone who wants to disenfranchise me

because of my beliefs can take the first train straight to their hell.

[teleharmonium]

53. Bush Sr your government

I am also atheist. I definitely get the feeling there are people that don't belong here. I am not one of them.

[Bluerthanblue]

61. my government rejects many of us- but you ARE

welcome here.

And you are no less ok- or more ok than anyone who is a theist.

Bush sr. made that stupid, ugly comment 20yrs ago.
That doesn't excuse it.

I think many, many people feel rejected and marginalized by this government, and by our society at large.

peace~

[tom_paine]

65. At this point in history, any person loving freedom and liberty, the dream of the Founding Fathers

should feel as unwelcome as a Jew in 1930s Germany, for that is where we are and that is who we are, relative to the Bushies.

And our Democrats now are behaving as German Social Democrats did then, almost identically.

This I now KNOW to be a fact.

http://www.amazon.com/Defying-Hitler-Memoir-Sebastian-Haffner/dp/0312421133/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197208607&sr=8-2

[mac2]

97. Acccording to polls that would be most of us.

Remember the Fascists and Nazis were a minority with power.

[tom_paine]

98. Can the 1930s Germans who went along truly be said to love freedom and liberty?

And by extension, can the same then be said of us.

For seven years, I have been Paul Revere-ing to many many MANY different people. I have spoke and I hav listened and I see little to differ between us and those Germans of old.

Most people just go along to get along. Freedom, tyranny, what's the difference unless it somehow effects them personally?

I hate to say this, and certainyl I could be wrong, but I have seen no evidence of it, and I see no evidence now.

Many nice, good and decent people throughout history have "gone along" with evil. I have looked into their eyes and spoken with them at length myself. No totalitarian evil could survive without the help and asistance of people who in their everyday conduct would be considered good people by their family and friends.

And this is us, it is the 1930s Germans, it is most societies that have ever existed in human history.

Who let the Nazis and the Bushies steal power? Who stayed silent in order to get just a little more time in the "good life" or "being left alone"?

We did. All of us.

[mac2]

99. The election was stolen in this country...protestors silenced

The majority silenced and lied to...divided over hate, etc.

[tom_paine]

101. Hitler didn't win in 1932, either.

Our majority is silenced and lied to, divided over hate, also.

[mac2]

108. When my Congressman Durbin (D-IL)

said Bush was a Nazi there was a big to do about it. The press and RWers were angry being called what they really were. I wish Durbin hadn't taken back his words and apologized. A rose is a rose and Bush is a Nazi.

Nazis and dictators have to steal power. They can't get it any other way.

[tom_paine]

114. Fully agree. n/t

[Deja Q]

66. Boo-hoo. (Sorry for the sarcasm, but you are not alone.)

There are Christians who feel betrayed too.

Don't worry.

As an Aspie, I've not only had the struggle to be considered viable for a job (the communication skills part; of which to this day I still have to endure... things you neurotypicals have no fucking clue about)...

...I've had to endure the "don't feel welcome anywhere" aspect. As with most Aspies; I've had to endure shit slung from monkeys all our lives. Fortunately, despite the scars, most of us get back up on our feet. Because we WANT to be productive, wanted members in society.

And let me tell you, I sure as hell did not CHOOSE to be an Aspie.

And anyone who accepts me will get my loyalty. Whether it it be God or anybody else. It's ultimately impossible for me to discriminate against any hand that helps. God has been a saving grace for my life. (So forgive me if I can't agree with your feelings on religion. I'll step into your shoes if you want to step into mine. It'd make one hell of a vacation for me... but would you endure your experience?)

[Kolesar]

77. We had a training module on hiring disabled people when we took diversity training.

I work in a large company who makes a point of being "proactive" about such issues. For example, we have a non-discrimination policy. We "usually" do well on such matters. Maybe you find this to be insightful.

[Kajsa]

81. That's good to hear,Avenger.

My son( HS autism) has been fortunate enough to work for an employer
who gives our guys a chance.

I'm glad to hear when other companies do, also.

Unfortunately, too many of his friends have been fired from their jobs
when a coworker pushed them too far and they acted out.
In one case, the job coach was sleeping on the job, didn't intervene when
the warning signs were flashing, and just dropped the ball- period!

I'm glad to hear your company is part of the solution.

;-)

( to the OP- sorry for the hijack- I really needed to get this out)

[Kolesar]

83. That Wikipedia link gave me a flash on insight into a family member of mine

He's quite thin skinned. I could see *some* of the self-control problem as described in the article on Asperger's Syndrome. Hijack approved! :hi:

[mac2]

95. And she (they) ignored the missing facts to go to war.

How is it people around the world and protestors here knew differently?

[tom_paine]

100. I had no idea, HypnoToad. I don't know what to say.

I just finished reading the Wiki entry you provided and I am blown away.

:hug:

[reggie the dog]

68. I agree

You should move to a country like France. 1/3 of the country is athiest. Even religious people here think the president gets out of line when he talks about religon.

[reggie the dog]

70. pink floyd

the sound breaks out across the fields, the tolling of the iron bell, draws the faithful to their knees, to hear their softly spoken magic spells....

[electron_blue]

72. Wow. He is an idiot, after all.

[SnowGoose]

73. So can atheists be drafted if they're not really citizens?

Atheists will be the last group it's "respectable" to truly hate.

[mac2]

92. Or not pay taxes because he refuses to represent them?

[Kolesar]

80. The right wing has decided to subsume the blacks, the catholics, and the jews

So they need somebody to villify. It's the Moslems, atheists, and homosexuals who get the spears and arrows of their political campaigning.

Michelle Goldberg reported this in www.salon.com in a report about the religious right in the 2004 election.

[Indenturedebtor]

87. Don't forget the Libruls

Oh and at one point (if not presently) Women, Union Members, College Professors, Protesters, The French, French Fries, Environmentalists, Poor People, Starbucks Patrons, as well as all of the others listed above and anyone in the future that they can label the enemy.

They are hatemongers, firing up nationalist hatred to keep the people from pointing the finger at the real enemy... them.

I hate the facist pigs that are running our country into the ground. Hate em.

[Mendocino]

125. Don't forget Illegal Immigrants...

they are the hot button issue du jour.

Until they find another hot button to push.

[genie_weenie]

88. As you may or may not realize Atheists are inherently Immoral

and ignorant because all morality comes from Dog and you are Stalin.

Of course your quote comes fro, Bush 41 in 1988 if I recall correctly. If Huckster gets elected he will *finally* make it illegal to be an Atheist (Thank Dog) and write it forever and ever into the Bibletutionor is it Constitbible.

[mac2]

89. Once again the Republicans use that "family values" thing

A discussion on Thom Hartmann radio show centered around "family values". The Republicans can call themselves the party of values but they should be challenged on that false claim. "Values" is a vague measurement just like "terrorist".

They are hypocrites. Texas as he claimed was full of "family values" which unite families...blah, blah, blah. I think New Jersey kicks the crap out of that argument. NJ has less divorces than TX thus putting a reality kink in that argument.

[David Ippolito]

102. You DO fit here!!!!!!!

It's what this nation was founded upon!

Do not allow the creeping cancer of religion of ANY kind corrupt the beautiful idea that this country stood for. John Adams said, "Thirteen governments thus founded on THE NATURAL AUTHORITY OF THE PEOPLE ALONE, without a pretense of miracle or mystery..."

"The Religion Song"

http://www.thatguitarman.com/MP3/the-religion-song.mp3

PEACE

- David

http://www.thatguitarman.com

[conscious evolution]

104. You think being an aetheist is tough?

Try being a follower of Sheva or Guanyin or Fanga.
Christians really froth at the mouth when they learn you worship one of the other gods.

[mac2]

109. Christains should clean up their own house before

being critical of others.

[MindPilot]

112. I would tend to disagree.

In my experience there is far more tolerance of those who believe in some god even if it's the wrong one(s) than for those who don't believe at all. As Christians are fond of pointing out, "...it's freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion."

[conscious evolution]

113. Let me guess

You must live in a blue area.
I am living in a red state.The vast majority of christians(even the liberal ones) around here think that Sheva etc.. are just different names for satan.

[MindPilot]

115. My avatar is california so that would be a yes.

fundies tend not to make the distinction; in their minds any other god or no god equals satanism.


But please god(s) let's not allow this to devolve into an argument of "I'm more persecuted than you". :D

[conscious evolution]

116. But I am!!I'm series!1!!1!!11

:silly: :rofl:

fundies tend not to make the distinction; in their minds any other god or no god equals satanism.

True words there.
Even the wrong version of christianity is satanic to some of them.

[mac2]

118. So you'd like to believe

The non-Christains don't kill for power. They hid most the Jews in Germany when the Christains stood behind Hitler. A non-Christain just might save your life someday. You have little idea who they are.

[MindPilot]

126. I "believe The non-Christains don't kill for power."

How in the world did you come to that conclusion from what I wrote? You added two and two and got an imaginary number.

[Skittles]

121. LOL MindPilot

obviously you do not live in Texas :o

[MindPilot]

127. And with good reason!

I have family in east Texas and I lived in Amarillo for a short time as a kid.

[Mendocino]

124. I agree with your disagreement.

As someone else pointed out in this thread, you can serve in a Texas Jury if you believe in a "higher power". The BSA will allow someone to be a scout leader if they profess to some sort of "god". A religious litmus test exists. Why does believing that there is one less god than christians believe in, or many as some religions recognize, eliminate someone from enjoying the same privileges, rights or obligations?

When an atheist in this country can run for president, without being questioned about their faith or lack of, is when religion is truly separated from state. Until then....

[timtom]

111. As a Christian, let me say that

he is a fucking idiot and spawn of Satan!!!

[mac2]

119. That's what my Christain/Mormon sister in law says

[Warren DeMontague]

117. I'm an Atheist, too, but two things should be made clear: One, the quote is 20 years old, and Two,

this was Poppy who said it.

Don't get me wrong, it was an egregious, obnoxious thing to say; I thought so at the time.. but I do believe as Atheists we have a little more visibility than we did in '87.

I don't think even the crazy GOP theocrats running today would say the same thing in so many words-- more relevant to current events, to my mind, are things like Romney's recent speech lumping 'persons of faith' all together against a common, if left unmentioned, "enemy" (guess who)

[PassingFair]

132. And even HE back pedaled and thanked the non-religious...

after his Michigan win.

Really!

[robbedvoter]

122. "I think we need less prayer and more love, empowerment to the people"

Gravel - the one and only candidate not to pander to Christians on stage of the debate - when the awful question was asked. While saying the right words on separation of church and state, they all fell over themselves to quote from bible, make sure they're Christians. And thus, exclude me.

[Edweird]

123. I'm a satanist. I hate them more than they hate me.

They can all go suck my ass.

[Steely_Dan]

129. What is most infuriating is...

it is the Christians that are constantly telling us that THEY are the ones under attack.

-P

[A HERETIC I AM]

130. "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and the rulers as useful"

Roman Philosopher Seneca

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious"

Oscar Wilde


Hmmm......both sentiments are in my sig line and both appear totally apropos to Bush's opinion from 20 years ago.

While I understand the concern of the OP, as long as I can still get a passport, I don't worry about how elected officials decide to voice their pandering opinions regarding superstitious, intellectually irrelevant philosophical predilections and points of view.

If it gets too bad, I'll leave.



"God was my co-pilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him."
(favorite T-shirt)
"God is a myth. Jesus is a fable. Get over it."
(Another favorite)

[mac2]

134. History turns over and over making the same mistakes

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful" - Roman philosopher Seneca - Science and Reason over Myth and Superstition. "Patriotism is the virtue of the viscious" - Oscar Wilde

Sometimes the use of religion and war...plundering back fires. The barbarians and unclean came down on Rome and demanded gold, food, shelter, etc. It was then that the great Roman Empire fell.

Seems like the Palestinians may do this to Israel and the great Empire Builder...the US.

[Blarch]

131. My biggest problem

I believe in a country that doesn't believe in me. Just breaks my heart.