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There is only one legitimate way to stimulate any economy

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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 09:09 AM
Original message
There is only one legitimate way to stimulate any economy
It's called JOBS.

Jobs that pay a decent wage. A wage where the median income can afford the median housing, whether it be rental housing or purchasing a house. Anything else is hocus-pocus.

I see only one way out for the US.

Manufacturing is not coming back. Face it, those jobs are permanently gone for good. So, we have to realize that we are almost entirely a service economy, which, to me, is not a bad thing in and of itself. It's just that service sector jobs have traditionally been on the low end of the wage scale.

What will bail us out? HEALTHCARE. Pass universal healthcare and the economy will take off like a rocket. We will need to build more clinics and hospitals and medical schools and rehab facilities. The construction sector will be engaged. Then, we will have to employ and train thousands of workers to be nurses, nurse's assistants, home health care aids, xray technicians, physical therapists, clerical and admin people, managers, etc.

The pharmaceutical companies will lose their stranglehold wherein we have paid a multiple of what other countries pay for the same drugs, but they will make it up in volume as more people become able to actually have the medicines they are in need of.

There are a huge number of ancillary businesses that would also spin off of universal health coverage - restaurants near the hospitals, uniform services, etc. Plus, the dollars freed from the shackles of for-profit health care can be turned back into the good old consumerism we all know and love. Those freed up medical dollars could purchase cars, homes and anything else you can think of.

Personally, I would love to see an economy where a large part of it is based on us taking care of one another and earning a decent living while doing it.

We could have and do all of this and more if the clown posse at the top weren't so determined to pour American dollars into foreign misadventures and redirect all of the American economy to the war machine.

Health, Not War!!!!
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BonnieJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. How about infrastructure?
We could employ thousands to begin repairing all the bridges and roads. What about beginning green infrastructure? Hiring people to place the new solar cells on top of all the malls and buildings? Hiring people to build wind towers? Hiring people to begin harnessing the ocean tides? Then manufacturing all the green parts and machinery to EXPORT (the word feels foreign in my mouth!)to all the other countries who need to begin green infrastructure as well.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Completely concur.
Not just healthcare, but rebuilding the infrastructure would be a great idea. As would committing to becoming the world leader in energy innovation.

Our so-called leaders are hopeless, myopic sycophants without a shred of vision of what a REAL world leader (nation) could look like.

A nation like the one we are dreaming of would be an ideal that other countries could aspire to model. That is how a nation wins hearts and minds - not with a ballot at the end of a bayonet.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Much of 'our' infrastructure is foreign own ...
for instance, many states new 'toll roads' are foreign own.
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Simple.
Don't fix privately owned infrastructure.
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. i agree completely - eom
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 11:13 AM by Scriptor Ignotus
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Republicans have been talking jobs for years but their jobs seem to be
taking of natural resources. Logging, drilling for oil, mining, etc..The last thing they want is for Americans to be helping other Americans. It just isn't Capitalistic...Rape pillage and plunder are the trademark of the Republicans..
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
5. The Size And Scope Of The MIddle Class Is Everything
No country has ever developed a sustainable macroeconomy of significant size and strength without having a large, vibrant middle class with plenty of buying power.

I don't however agree that mfg. jobs aren't coming back. The drive to offshore is based not only upon lower labor costs, but also tax incentives to do it. That is a gross mistake in the tax code. Making that right would reduce the incentive to offshore jobs by a significant degree and make the higher productivity of the american worker, plus reduced overhead costs, plus lower shipping attractive again.

But, i agree with your general point.
The Professor
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. Help me out, I really don't see how a healthcare based society works
(I apologize for this being rambling and rant-like, nothing personal is intended)

Historically, societies have advanced by producing surpluses of "things of value" which get traded outside the society rather than remaining inside society where the surplus depresses prices and hence incentive to produce surplus. Trade with other societies brings wealth back into the society where it circulates, turning the wheels of the domestic economy as it moves toward concentration in the wealthy class (where according to capitalist mythology it results in a surplus whose value can only be maintained by reinvestment, resulting in development and production of new products and greater capacity all of which is supposed create jobs for wage slaves. Being that investing in developing nations is so attractive it seems more unlikely than ever that the rich folks money will trickle into domestic jobs. But this digresses).

Even assuming that surplus healthcare capacity exists within the US, our healthcare is already so expensive that it is causing Americans to leave the country in search of healtcare in India, Mexico, and Brazil. How many foreign nationals will be attracted to the US for healthcare? Some surely who will seek out places like the Mayo Clinic, The John's Hopkins, etc., but I submit not enough to float the economy.

A couple dozen hours seriously engaged in the US healthcare system following routine outpatient surgery, say a fractured ankle that requires surgerical pins etc, and the medical and rehabilitation follow-up can cost the equivalent of half an average working class person's annual income. Truly serious hospital stays, say following tumor removal or organ transplant are simply so expensive as to be bankrupting for even middleclass households unless the cost is covered by insurance. But even with insurance, the insurance company has to cough up real dollars to the care providers. To make a healthcare system support the entire economy you simply have to spend more on healthcare per person than the jobs that currently exist can support. And re-direction of capital into healthcare would simply wreck a whole hell of a lot of jobs that are still providing dollars to keep health insurers profitable.

How are you gonna sustain an economy that depends on stripping families of their assets, or strips insurance companies of the assets they use to generate income that, even if only in part, is used to generate pay-outs to healthcare? Are you looking for the government to just print money and hand it over to cover healthcare costs? That would simply exacerbate the trade imbalance because our dollars will end up devalued. Every way I look at it a healthcare based economy threatens to impoverish society. It doesn't seem to me to be any more possible to support an advanced society simply on healthcare than it is to have an advanced society based simply upon McJobs. There would be an inevitable down-sizing of standards of living.

I could be completely old-school and ignorant of some new economic theory, but it seems to me that a positive balance of international trade is required to grow an entire nation, and that a balance of trade is the minimum necessary to maintain a society. Healthcare simply can't do that for the US. Insurance companies can try to create a positive balance in capital flow through investments, but they are off-shoring their HQ's and their cash to avoid taxes. Moreover, without places to invest that cash in the US that can generate increased value, the US the insurance companies would be forced to invest OUTSIDE the US. Consequently, money to keep up all the things that maintain, forget about advancing, society would go elsewhere in the world. The US can't sustain itself under that. We end up with decay, that decay becomes an ever more crushing weight.

It seems to me that growing an economy depends upon taking resources and modifying them into something more valuable than existed at the start, and selling the value added thing to capture the change in value. The dominant pattern in Healthcare is returning a person to health (and that is both attractive, good, and important) but, typically it doesn't result in a person who is more valuable than they were before they got sick or injured (notwithstanding that in some cases corrective surgeries certainly do).

I don't see how a healthcare based society could maintain let alone grow an entire national economy anymore than could a society based on auto-repair (even though auto-repair is very useful and important to contemporary US society).













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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
7. Well, increasing food stamp payouts immediately would stimulate the economy
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 10:43 AM by MH1
That is money that would have been spent IMMEDIATELY, 100%, and would drive production, which drives jobs.

Giving a tax rebate to people who may or may not need it, may or may not spend it, and that will take 3 months to receive it - NOT "emergency economic stimulus", except for some portion that comes from purchasing increases based on anticipation.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. Life, not death; well-being, not ill-being; just, not unjust, reasoning, not RW ideology
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. Oh, that is SO last century thinking.
:sarcasm:
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
10. No. We have to produce things that people elsewhere will buy.
Balance of trade is an important concept. We can't borrow money from China to purchase the stuff that China produces indefinitely.

I also disagree with your reasons behind your suggestion that healthcare is the right place to apply stimulus. We already spend something like 17% of our gdp on healthcare. The primary problem with healthcare today is that we spend twice as much as we need to - not that there are too few hospitals, doctors or MRI machines.

Passage of universal healthcare will help our economy because it will enable us to competitively produce things that others will buy.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. How 'bout NEW jobs in NEW industries?
Our old industries may have been shipped overseas, but new technology is coming along daily. Alternative energy and those associated with energy conservation come to mind.
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Snotcicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
14. The only way to have a evolving and robust economy, is when EVERYONE shares in it. nt
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