Impeachment scenario?

[trof]

Maybe this has been put forth before here, but anyway...

Nancy Pelosi has taken a lot of heat for not pursuing the impeachment of the president and vice-president. Many of us have been howling for her blood. But if I really look at the facts (and throw in just a little intuition) here's what I come up with.

1. Impeachment doesn't put anyone in the pokey. It only removes them from office.

2. The House of Representatives acts as grand jury and just votes, by a simple majority, to bring charges. Currently there are 236 Democrats in the House, and 200 Republicans. So if the vote went strictly along party lines we do have a simple majority.
BUT...if no members of the president's own party vote to impeach then they can and will paint it as a strictly partisan 'gotcha'.
Sound familiar? Newt Gingrich was asked why they impeached Clinton. "Because we could."

3. If the House does indict, then the trial is held in the Senate.
49 Dems, 49 Repubs, and 2 Independents.
To convict, there has to be a 2/3 vote in favor.
The votes aren't there.
IMHO the whole mindset of Repubs in the senate has changed since the days of Nixon. Back then there were some (many?) with the integrity to convict, even though it went against a man of their own party.
Today I'd bet that not a single Repub would vote to convict.
So it turns out to be another show trial, much like Clinton's.
At least that's the way it will be presented.

On the other hand, if we wait until both men are out of office and then bring criminal charges against them there's a very good chance that 'twelve good men (and/or women) and true' will vote to convict.

Especially if there's not a failed attempt to impeach coloring the minds of the jurors.
(impeachment acquittal = 'innocent')

OK, that's my 2 cents.
Got my Nomex undies on.
Have at it.
;-)

[Lint Head]

1. When is Dennis suppose to introduce the articles?

I've heard nothing and this is suppose to be the day.:dem:

[MissWaverly]

2. I have thought about this a great deal

I think that they will continue to "let" the Iraq War go on and that way Bush can still be the "War" President and have all
those powers an ordinary president would not have. Then they will wait out the clock and then they will pretend that they never
were at fault for not fulfilling their oversight duty. Bush, Cheney and the neocon elite will "walk" with no accountability,
and our fearless congress will huddle on the sidelines afraid for their own seats in case of political fallout.

[trof]

3. Sadly, that's what I fear too. But...

I'm the Eternal Optimist.
:-(

[MissWaverly]

5. I think there will be follow-up but not by the beltway crowd

we are part of a world community, the world sees through the neocons better than we, I believe there will be international investigations and trials after the 2008 elections are over.

[trof]

6. From your mouth to God's ear.

As they say...

[MissWaverly]

8. if you get a chance go to the link below

www.anationdeceived.org

it talks about injustice and makes the statement that the people will not rest with unjust acts done in their name,
they will have a resolution.

[trof]

10. Hey, thanks.

Hadn't seen that one.

[MissWaverly]

11. you are welcome

I got the CD "A Nation Deceived" with Ed Asner, I enjoyed it, not as much info as Frontline but a good buy.

[angrycarpenter]

4. logical

but I would still like to see them being grilled before congress. Not that they would give any straight answers. No logic involved there, just rage.

[zorahopkins]

7. Do The Right Thing

It is always important to do the right thing.

Bush and Cheney have LIED to the American people and to the entire world, and have led our country to an illegal and immoral invasion and occupation of another country.

Millions have died or been injured.

And we're just supposed to wait until he leaves office?

Do the right thing.

It is NEVER the wrong time to do the right thing.

[trof]

9. My gut says 'yes'. My head says 'no'.

Politics has become a game.
I wish it hadn't, but there it is.
I want these bastards in jail, not skating on impeachment charges.

[warren pease]

12. I think they're going to walk unless impeachment hearings reveal the extent of their crimes...

Aside from being completely at a loss to explain how the so-called congressional leadership could possibly think it's a bad idea to risk its lofty 11 percent approval rating by impeaching a universally loathed vulture with an even lower approval rating -- aside from that, I just don't buy the "don't have the votes" argument.

Impeachment hearings, in which claims of executive privilege are banned and there are real criminal penalties for ignoring subpoenas, would open the floodgates that have kept the multiple crimes of this administration hidden for years. Even though they "don't have the votes" now, once a list of those crimes hits mass media – and even the horribly inept and co-opted US corporate media would have to cover impeachment hearings – it might turn out that House members who failed to vote for impeachment would find their jobs in serious jeopardy next election cycle. Same for Senators who failed to vote to convict.

So I think it's just another lame excuse, like the one about impeachment sucking up valuable time that they need to pass their comprehensive agenda on behalf of the people.

That must be why important business like implementing single payer health care, passing a moratorium on housing foreclosures, enacting consumer protections against predatory lending practices and usurious interest rates, and rolling back Bush's Bucks for Billionaires tax bonanza and wealth redistribution program is going so well. It's all that undivided attention they have now that they're not distracted by impeachment.

Or the one about there not being enough time left in Bush's second term to bother impeaching. On the contrary, impeachment of Bush, Cheney and perhaps a dozen more high-ranking administration figures is critical if the world is to avoid the ruinous consequences of another year of Bush-style militarism. Iranians probably think impeachment is one hell of a good idea about now.

Domestically, impeachment may be the only way to ensure that this country survives in recognizable form with these lame duck psychopaths at the helm for 12 more long months. They have little to lose and obviously lack any conscience or moral compass. They have the combined mass of seven years of unconstitutional legislation, government by executive order, fiat and signing statement and the systematic elimination of the checks and balances needed to constrain an executive branch run amok.

So they can now go completely nuts and their track record indicates that all that authority will be used to worsen the economic and social dislocation at home and expand the bloody carnage abroad. All that and, as a parting gesture, they'll be sure to steal a few hundred million more for themselves and their pals on their way out of town.

There's also the "we don't want to further divide the country" excuse. From what I can tell, while there are enough serious divisions to cause another civil war, this country is united around one single issue: getting these lying, thieving, bloody minded bastards the hell out of office as quickly as possible by any means possible.

I think Pelosi and Reid are either complete fucking idiots, spineless enablers or conniving co-conspirators. Either that or the grand plan is way too deep and complex for my mediocre mind to grasp.


wp

[Senator]

13. Failure To Impeach Exonerates The Regime

It's just that simple. Without impeachment/accusation by Congress, the actions are "approved."

No prosecution could surmount the "If it were so bad, why no impeachment?" defense.

Failure to impeach at all -- even a failed attempt -- is the worst possible outcome. And it looks most likely.

Sadly, impeachment may well be the ONLY way to reunite our once-great nation.

But the (meaningless) manipulative mantra of "too divise" has "our leaders" in a beltway-blinded stupor.

---

[Crabby Appleton]

14. I doubt that there will be an impeachment, or a conviction, nor

criminal charges brought.