NRA attacking their own

[GreenCommie]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/23/AR2007022301709.html

'Terrorist' Remark Puts Outdoorsman's Career in Jeopardy

Modern hunters rarely become more famous than Jim Zumbo. A mustachioed, barrel-chested outdoors entrepreneur who lives in a log cabin near Yellowstone National Park, he has spent much of his life writing for prominent outdoors magazines, delivering lectures across the country and starring in cable TV shows about big-game hunting in the West.

Zumbo's fame, however, has turned to black-bordered infamy within America's gun culture -- and his multimedia success has come undone. It all happened in the past week, after he publicly criticized the use of military-style assault rifles by hunters, especially those gunning for prairie dogs.

"Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity," Zumbo wrote in his blog on the Outdoor Life Web site. The Feb. 16 posting has since been taken down. "As hunters, we don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them. . . . I'll go so far as to call them 'terrorist' rifles."

<snip>

Our folks fully understand that their rights are at stake," the NRA statement said. It warned that the "grassroots" passion that brought down Zumbo shows that millions of people would "resist with an immense singular political will any attempts to create a new ban on semi-automatic firearms."

Some outdoors writers drew a different lesson from Zumbo's horrible week.

"This shows the zealousness of gun owners to the point of actual foolishness," said Pat Wray, a freelance outdoors writer in Corvallis, Ore., and author of "A Chukar Hunter's Companion."

[rpannier]

1. To quote Lenny from the Simpsons

"These weapons are necessary to catch todays new super animal. Like the flying squirrel or the electric eel."

[youngdem]

2. Finally, a reasonable voice from the hunting community

As a life long resident of Louisiana, and a hunter and fisherman of all types of game for my entire life, let me say it is sweet to hear someone trying to speak up and finally say that machine guns, assault weapons, .50 cal handguns and the like perhaps aren't necessary for hunting.

Gun nuts give hunters a bad name. I have NEVER needed automatic weapons, a .50 cal or an assault rifle to take down a deer, rabbit, snake, bear, gator, nutria, shark, etc. Nor has anyone I know. Frankly, if you need a huge weapon or automatic fire to kill something that isn't shooting back at you, it is because you are a shitty shot and perhaps need to visit the gun range, see an optometrist, or find another hobby.

If you want a machine gun or Desert Eagle pistol to feel safe, fine. Just admit it. PLEASE don't try to call them hunting weapons though. It's just stupid.

[Kber]

4. Plus, you riddle a rabbit full of bullets, doesn't it kinda make it harder to eat?

My grandfather was a lifelong hunter, and during the Depression getting his deer was sometimes the difference between eating or not, and he would have agreed with you 110%.

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. Just finding the rabbit's pieces at all is part of the thrill of the hunt

[youngdem]

7. Thanks.

Thanks for the giggle.


Not far from the truth probably.

[slackmaster]

15. My stepfather hunted rabbits for food when he was a kid during the Depression

The rifle he used was a single-shot .22 with open sights (no scope).

He was the second-youngest of seven children in a family that homesteaded in the rural mountains of San Diego County. When their father was away working on railroads (i.e. most of the time), it often fell on my stepfather, about age 10, to take some wild game for a meal.

His mother would give him the rifle and three rounds of ammo, and tell him not to come home until he had two rabbits. He usually came home with three.

[slackmaster]

14. The discussion has nothing to do with machine guns

:eyes:

[-..__...]

16. Zumbos comments were way out of line.

Sure, he's entitled to his opinion, but either through sheer ignorance, or genuine distaste for EBRs (Evil Black Rifles), he created a situation that could have harmed the firearms community.

The concern amongst his critics was that his comments could be used by anti-gun lobbyists as propaganda
to pass legislation banning ownership of "military style semi-automatic" weapons...

<Brady Campaign> Even renowned hunting authority Jim Zumbo agrees that assault weapons have no legitimate purpose in our society and should be banned. </Brady Campaign>

Referring to EBR owners as "terrorists" was a low blow and uncalled for and probably contributed to the
anger more than anything else.

The real icing on the cake was that at the time he made his comments, there was another buzz taking place amongst gun owners in the form of a new and heavy-handed "Assault Weapons Ban" that was submitted by Carolyn McCarthy.

Zumbo got 0wN3d and deservedly so.

[jody]

3. This issue is also discussed on the DU thread below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=134270&mesg_id=134270

[MadHound]

5. This guy is absolutely correct

The guns being used out there for hunting today are insane. It has turned hunting from a sport(which implies some sort of equality on both sides), into a slaughter. And it doesn't stop with the guns, all sorts of electronic gear is available for hunters, turning hunting from a skill to a slaughter. Cameras, night vision scopes, GPS, all of this and more insures that the odds are as much in favor of the hunter as possible.

Frankly, I would think that if you want a sport, then you get some buddies and go hunt deer old school. Spears, furs(no cammo), actually stalking your prey. But modern Americans are too lazy to do this, thus what was once sport, something to brag about, now turns into slaughter, and all of those trophies mounted on the wall are false testament to the prowess of the person who killed them. Sad, really. What's next, heat seeking bullets?

[slackmaster]

11. I agree with you but that's not the kind of thing Zumbo was referring to

As "terrorist" rifles.

[Paladin]

8. The Assault Rifle Droolers Are Rejoicing About Zumbo

The Net is lit up with their ugly comments; there's the inevitable thread in our very own DU Gun Dungeon.

Just a note to our resident Military Surplus Junkies: the Zumbo incident confirms that you have all the class of the right wing half-wits who got the Dixie Chicks thrown off radio play lists from coast to coast. I hope this incident comes back to bite you on the ass.....

[Retired AF Dem]

12. Bullshit

The assault rifles will go than after that Zumbo's high powered scoped "sniper" rifles would be next. Jimbo fails to see that.

[Paladin]

17. Is The Ruination Of His Career Enough For You?

Or do you require something else from Zumbo, as punishment for the high crime of not liking assault-style weapons enough?

I repeat: you gun militants have a lot in common with those backwards forces who got the Dixie Chicks thrown off radio. Hope you're proud of yourselves.....

[benEzra]

20. His realizing that he was wrong is good enough for me...

and an apology for equating me with a terrorist would be nice, but secondary. I'm sure Remington would like an apology from their spokesman for slamming their #1 selling centerfire caliber as a "terrorist" caliber also, but, hey...

I'm sure that there were those who said similar things when military-style bolt-action repeaters began to replace lever-actions and single-shots in the field in the early 20th century, and I'm sure an old-guard minority would have like to have banned Mausers and Mauser-derived sporters from the field. But they were accepted and became the norm. That is now happening with protruding handgrips, synthetic stocks, and forged aluminum receivers, IMHO.

What is heartening to me is the solidarity of the criticism of Mr. Zumbo's remarks. Overwhelmingly, the hunters that don't own black rifles are standing with those who do, and with nonhunters who do; even Field and Stream (which supported the original AWB) and Outdoor Life are now saying that looks are irrelevant, a semiauto is a semiauto. That's an encouraging shift from where the gun-media gatekeepers were even in '94, to me. Between that and the pro-gun Dems elected in '06, I am relieved that the AWB seems to finally be dead and buried (fingers crossed).

[spinbaby]

9. Assault weapons have nothing to do with hunting

I'm actually married to a man who collects the things. It's about collecting and, once in a while, taking them to an indoor shooting range that can handle them. He doesn't hunt and would be appalled at the use of automatic weapons for that purpose. It beats me what the fascination is, but as long as he keeps the hardware safely put away in the gun safe, I'm fine with it.

[slackmaster]

13. "Assault weapons" are not automatic

And many hunters do use semiautomatic weapons. Most states limit magazine capacity for hunting arms, typically to five rounds.

[Retired AF Dem]

10. Jim Zumbo messed up and the NRA had nothing to do with it

When Jim posted his comments on the Outdoor Life blog thousands of people replied with their displeasure of his comments. Now he is history, common folks was his down fall the same as the Democrats after 94 and the same in 08 if more useless gun control is passed.

[benEzra]

18. The NRA was VERY late to that party...

Mr. Zumbo called us "terrorists" last Friday night, gun owners weighed in on Saturday and Sunday, Remington dropped him on Monday, and the NRA finally issued a statement the following Thursday. News flash--*we* grassroots gunnies emailed the NRA and let them know about it. They were clueless.

Mr. Zumbo was completely out of touch with the mainstream views of the gun-owning community; the percentage defending him is probably less than 5%. Not to mention that his #1 sponsor, Remington, sells ammunition for the guns he slammed, and at least one of those calibers (.223 Remington, duh) is probably Remington's top selling centerfire caliber, under their UMC label. Big oops...

And contrary to some of the opinions on this thread, Mr. Zumbo wasn't talking about rapid-fire or high-capacity firearms. He was talking about non-automatic rifles, using hunting magazines (usually 5-round), in appropriate hunting calibers, e.g. AR-15's in .223 for small game, SKS's/SAR's or .243 AR-15's for boar and small deer, AR-10's and FAL's for deer and elk, and so on.

Here's the text of the email I sent the author of the WashPost story:

Hi! As one of the participants in the Zumbo affair, I read your article on the episode with great interest.

I think Pat Wray entirely misses the point. The response to Mr. Zumbo's admittedly ill-conceived remarks weren't the result of "NRA training," but rather a reaction to Mr. Zumbo calling us "terrorists," and calling for states to ban rifles with modern styling from the prairies and fields. Considering that he was talking about some of the most popular civilian sporting rifles in the United States, that was awfully strong language.

It's one thing to say that you disagree with someone else's aesthetic choices; it's quite another to label him a terrorist and demand that his choices be outlawed. The resulting backlash was passionate, though mostly civil, and was not driven by NRA "training" in any way. I'm not currently an NRA member, but the NRA got an earful about this incident from the grassroots, not the other way around...

I'm sure that in the early 1900's, when military-style bolt-action repeaters first began to displace single-shot rifles and lever actions in the hunting fields, there were some old guard hunters that despised the new military style weapons, and probably a few that would have liked to see Mausers and Mauser-derived sporters banned from the fields. But in the end, bolt-actions were accepted, to the extent that most hunting rifles are now bolt guns. IMHO, the same thing is now happening with regard to hunting rifles with protruding handgrips, black plastic stocks, and forged aluminum receivers. The more things change, the more they remain the same...

In my state (NC), hunting rifles are limited to 5 rounds, regardless of what they look like. If you are shooting a .243 with a 5-round magazine, it doesn't matter whether the rifle is a Remington 7400 or an AR-15, since the rifles are identical except for their looks. And a hunter whose rifle has a plastic stock and a protruding handgrip is no more likely to be a "terrorist," a "yahoo," or a "slob hunter" than the guy with a Winchester 1894 or a Model 70.

I am currently a nonhunter--it's hard for even an experienced shooter to get into hunting without knowing the right people and/or having lots of spare cash--but if I ever do take up hunting, it'll most likely be with this rifle and my 5-round hunting magazine:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=271x1177

which is identical in every way (except looks) to a Ruger Mini Thirty deer rifle:

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=5806&return=Y

Same power level, same rate of fire, same practical accuracy, same range of available magazine capacities, same effective range. Caliber is 7.62x39mm, similar to .30-30 Winchester and about half as powerful as a .30-06 deer rifle, but adequate for small to medium sized deer as long as the range is kept under 125 yards or so.

Anyway, thanks for an interesting story, and thanks so much for your time! Have a great day.

(benEzra)

FWIW, I *think* Pat Wray is a self-published author whose only claim to fame that I am aware of is his close association with the AHSA, which is in turn closely connected to the ban-more-guns lobby. I am looking into this a bit more.

FWIW, I'm willing to forgive Mr. Zumbo and move on (and I think he is now catching up on the last 40 years of civilian firearm history, and patching up his foot), but I think the reaction to his initial attack was justified, IMHO.

[aikoaiko]

19. Let the Zumbo affair be fair warning for congress critters who might support the next AWB bill.

No more bans on semi-auto rifles and pistols based on scary appearances.

An equivalent would be Al Franken saying DU is choke full of dangerous leftist crazies and has no real place in serious political discourse.