WOO-HOO!! Smoking ban in Maryland bars and restaurants goes into

[madinmaryland]

affect on Friday!

:woohoo:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/custom/today/bal-to.smoke30jan30,0,3803736.story

[SteppingRazor]

1. Bah. Body nazis.

:P

[LynneSin]

20. Yes god forbid we tramp on the rights of the smoking nazis

:eyes:

[benEzra]

146. Strict clean-air standards for nonsmoking sections would serve just as well...

while still allowing smokers to gather together socially with other smokers.

FWIW, I don't smoke and can't stand the smell of it (gives me headaches), but I also dislike fundamentalism. There are ways to fully accomodate both nonsmokers' and smokers' interests, were the antismoking fundies interested in doing so.

[Swede]

167. Smoking sections in a building is like peeing sections in a pool.

It doesn't work.

[benEzra]

172. Yes, it does...and air quality standards would be enforceable.

It is child's play from an engineering standpoint to put the smoking room or whatever downstream (airflow-wise) from the nonsmoking section. It is also child's play to test the air quality of the nonsmoking section for compliance.

But that wouldn't satisfy the need of the antismoking fundamentalists to make those eeee-villll smokers into social outcasts, so that option wasn't considered. Air quality isn't the point; punishing sinners is.

[Caoimhe]

174. No...,really.... it doesn't work. n/t

[benEzra]

175. Yes, it does, if properly designed.

I'm not talking about hanging a sign in a corner of an open room and calling it a "smoking section."

Like I said, designing an HVAC system with ZERO inflow from the smoking section to the nonsmoking section is child's play from an engineering standpoint, testing the air in the nonsmoking section for compliance is also child's play, and pretending otherwise in order to justify banning smokers from gathering in smoking-designated areas is wrongheaded and fundamentalist.

[JVS]

169. This is all so that people will drive to Delaware and pay their tolls to smoke in their bars, right?

[JDPriestly]

150. Some of those "body Nazis" have asthma, and second-hand

smoke is a life or death issue to them.

[LanternWaste]

2. This smoker...

This smoker would like to see the same thing happen in my state. Let us stink up our homes and cars and leave the rest of the air in peace... :hi:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

7. this smoker would like everyone else to quit driving and spewing invisible carcinogens into my air.

Then maybe we can all breathe easier. At least you can SEE the pollutants I'm putting out.

[DesertFlower]

15. when i was a smoker i had

the same answers as you do.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

42. and now it's ok that smog causes as many illnesses as long-term exposure to second hand smoke?

Previous studies have linked soot in the air to many respiratory ailments and even death, but the new study is the most definitive yet on the long term impact of such air pollution, according to New York University (NYU) School of Medicine and Brigham Young University researchers who led the study.
Over many years, the danger of breathing soot filled air in polluted cities is comparable to the health risks associated with long term exposure to second hand smoke, according to the authors of the study, which evaluated the effects of air pollution on human health over a 16 year period.

The researchers calculated that the number of deaths from lung cancer increases by eight percent for every additional 10 micrograms of fine particulate matter found in a cubic meter of air.

"This study is compelling because it involved hundreds of thousands of people in many cities across the U.S. who were followed for almost two decades," said George Thurston, associate professor of environmental medicine at NYU School of Medicine, the study's co-leader.
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/mar2002/2002-03-06-07.asp

I don't smoke inside when non-smokers are present... that's a given. I just want to see the same level of vitrol directed at the people who polute ALL our air, not just at smokers.

[LanternWaste]

98. We selectively and conveniently choose

We selectively and conveniently choose to see who's getting targeted and by what. It would be completely disingenuous to imply that there is no "vitriol" targeted at anyone BUT smokers.

Indeed, we smokers are only part and parcel of the problem, and only part and parcel of the much larger target which also consists of the auto industry, the coal industry, etc. I'm sure on a clear day, you're aware of that...

[TahitiNut]

44. There's nothing like having a track record.

:eyes:

[LanternWaste]

When your cigarette can also drive you to and from work...

When your cigarette can also drive you to and from work, then we'll talk... :)

[Mountainman]

125. Well I have to hand it to you. Your bull shit is up front!

[harmonicon]

141. +1

[DesertFlower]

16. good for you.

you're a very considerate person.

[LanternWaste]

137. I've learned the hard way...

I've learned the hard way...

I used to be selfish, inconsiderate and mean. But I got better. :hi:


(and I'm down from a pack a day for 20 years to 10 cigarettes a day! Yay me!!!)

[DesertFlower]

160. good luck to you. i smoked for 30 years --- 2 packs a day.

stopping was one of the hardest things i have ever done. i had hypnosis. i was in a trance and wanted a cigarette. but i did it. that was almost 25 years ago.

my husband kept trying and failing. he figured sooner or later it would work and it did. he's been cigarette free for about 12 years.

[meegbear]

3. Reason #29 not to visit Maryland

[Sweet Pea]

11. Only 29?

I've got more than that!

[TZ]

32. There's been this ban in Montgomery Co, Maryland for several years

Bars doing ok, plenty of restaurants.

[kirby]

40. And business increased!

Montgomery County restaurant sales tax receipts have risen since the law took effect on Oct. 9, 2003, increasing more than 22 percent in the past four years, Andrews said in his statement.

"Not only have sales at existing restaurants continued to rise over the past four years, but many new restaurants have opened during this period throughout the County," he said.

"The law is working exactly as intended, protecting restaurant workers and diners at no cost to taxpayers. Enforcement is not an issue, because of the law's strong public support."

Source: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/annapolis/2007/10/andrews_leggett_laud_4th_birth.html

[LynneSin]

46. These bans happen and intially there is always backlash

And a few places will go out of business claiming "It was the smoking ban"

We saw that in Delaware. I remember one restaurant owner swearing up & down it was the ban that forced him out of business. He never considered that his restaurant had horrible food reviews, overpriced drinks and, from what I had learned from the current owner, the previous owner was giving himself this massive salary that was way out of scale for normal establishments.

The new restuarant moved in about 6 months later and has been thriving ever since

[Midlodemocrat]

4. It's effect, asshat.

:hide:

:woohoo:


I am terribly bothered by smoke, so this is good news for me.

[madinmaryland]

26. Nice post, Hitler!

Grammar Nazi!

:hi:

[High Plains]

5. I guess I'll be spending my money in Virginia.

When it comes to smoking bans, I'm pro-choice.

[kirby]

6. About damn time...

People can go out to eat / drink without inhaling thousands of toxins/carcinogens. Not to mention the employees dont have to sicken themselves and people with asthma. Of course lets not forget the thousands of thousands who DIE every year from second hand smoke.

[High Plains]

8. How many people die from second hand smoke, anyway?

And how is that determined? Is it on their death certificates? How does anyone know?

Is it all statistical legerdemain?

[kirby]

10. There are studies...

35,000-40,000 THOUSAND PER YEAR (these are non-smokers, just people who work, live, exposed to others)

Yes there is statistics involvd, based on the nature of what is being measured. Just like Global Warming.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_smoking)

In 1992, the Journal of the American Medical Association published a review of the available evidence regarding the relationship between secondhand smoke and heart disease, and estimated that passive smoking was responsible for 35,000 to 40,000 deaths per year in the United States in the early 1980s.<60> Some studies find that non-smokers living with smokers have about a 25% increase in risk of death from heart attack, are more likely to suffer a stroke, and can sometimes contract genital cancer. Some research, with better measures of secondhand smoke exposure suggests that risks to nonsmokers may be even greater than this estimate. A British study reported that exposure to secondhand smoke increases the risk of heart disease among non-smokers by as much as 60%, similar to light smoking.<61>

Parental smoking can affect children and babies, and is associated with low birth weight, sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), bronchitis and pneumonia, and middle ear infections.<62>


Also:

In May 2006, the United States Centers for Disease Control issued its first new study on secondhand smoke in 20 years. Surgeon General Richard Carmona summarized:

The health effects of secondhand smoke exposure are more pervasive than we previously thought. The scientific evidence is now indisputable: secondhand smoke is not a mere annoyance. It is a serious health hazard that can lead to disease and premature death in children and nonsmoking adults.

[Deep13]

22. More than you think and this isn't just about 2nd hand smoke.

It is an incremental step in controlling the causes of disease. We will never have national healthcare until the causes of disease are under control.

Yes there are others, but smoking is still a good target: it is extremely destructive and has no redeming qualities.

[LynneSin]

24. Don't get me started with second hand smoke - I dealt with it for years

back when everyone thought California was loopy for *gasp* indoor smoking bans.

After 3 years of waiting tables my doctor & mother both swore I was a smoker. But it was the only job that would pay decent AND happen to have benefits too plus work with my schedule since I was taking classes again.

Oh sure, I should have just STFU and made minimum wage at Wal-Mart - god forbid I try to get a job that actually paid well.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

29. And

God forbid someone start a business which provides jobs that pay better than walmart being allowed to permit or deny a legal activity in their establishment...

[kirby]

33. Yeah but the voters wanted this!!

what if a majority of MD residents lobbied their state legislature to get this enacted. The people wanted this...

"Statewide, 72% favor a ban on smoking in all bars and restaurants in Maryland (up 2 points from January), while 23% are opposed to a ban (down 1 point), and 5% had no opinion."

Source: http://www.garesearch.com/Surveys/Maryland_Media_Poll_March_2007.htm

[LynneSin]

39. They call us non-smokers 'Nazis' but the real 'Nazis' are the smokers

They were stupid enough to take up an addictive, destructive habit and they think the rest of us, THE MAJORITY, should suffer their stupidity.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

59. Tell ya what

As a non smoker the next time I see someone dragging you into a smoking bar Ill take the bullet for you..

[Midlodemocrat]

62. How about when I have to walk through a cloud of smoke to

just walk into the restaurant? Or Target?

It's a disgusting habit and I shouldn't have to suffer because someone else smokes. My mom smoked for 50 years so I know well how addictive it is, but it also killed her. Smoking destroys your circulatory system as well as your lungs. Long term smokers have the same connective tissue issues as Marfan sufferers.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

72. If the resturant allows somking and you hate it that much

Don't patronize their business... Start your own..

[Midlodemocrat]

106. Missed the point, but thanks for playing.

If it 'allowed' smoking, I wouldn't have to walk through a cloud of haze to enter the establishment.


Crowding around entrances to establishments to suck the last bit of nicotine into your lungs prior to entering is grossly inconsiderate. Disgustingly so.

Smoke in your car, where I can't smell it.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

121. Wow

"If it 'allowed' smoking, I wouldn't have to walk through a cloud of haze to enter the establishment. "

Holy crap you have that mythical thing called free choice... now only if all people had that we could avoid laws which dictate how people should enjoy a legally obtainable substance..

[Midlodemocrat]

139. You're missing the point entirely.

Smokers congregate at the front entrance of EVERY SINGLE ESTABLISHMENT to smoke their last cigarette before going inside. Employees gather there as well.

If this is the case EVERYWHERE, which is pretty much is here, where do you suggest I shop for groceries and such? Any ideas?

[LynneSin]

63. Clearly you don't get it - it's not about the patrons

It's about the employees. This is public health. Why should someone have to choose between a job that pays decently (aka waiting tables - you can make a livable salary doing it) vs. being stuck at a minimum wage job.

I haven't been inside a smoking bar for about 3 years but then again Delaware was the 2nd state to go statewide ban (after California). These laws were NOT passed for my benefit.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

75. "It's about the employees. "

I know this sounds cold but work somewhere else, its that simple.

If someone is allergic to peanuts they can work in a bar should we ban them in bars and restaurants as well? I don't say this flippantly as my kids are both peanut allergic and Im thankful for places that accommodate that but I'm not going to piss and moan when they are 16 and cant work at DQ or when they are trying to work through college (because you know how badly the neocons have screwed up higher education) but cant be a waitress..

[kirby]

80. Irish need not apply.

Help Wanted: Waiter/Hostess w/ benefits. Must be willing to accept future risk of cancer to accommodate a small minority who could care less about your health.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

99. One can say the same

for gas stations, police officers, fishermen,.... any number of careers come with a health risk.

BTW if people who smoked in bars were such a small minority there would have been smoke free bars poping up on every corner even without a law..

[kirby]

103. Business want to 'stay competitive'

They

1) Dont want to lose smoking customers to other restaurants - its a race to the common denominator

2) Dont want their employees have to argue with people like you - its easier to point to a sign that
says 'By Order of the Health Department' rather than 'The owner says no smoking'

3) Dont like change, they fear they will lose money, when in fact business increases

4) Dont really give a shit about public health, just want to make a buck.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

111. Point by Point

1) I thought throngs of people were just dying for smoke free bars! The only thing better for a business than the common denominator is meaningful differentiation

2) 'people like me'... I dont smoke and dont begrudge any business owner to permit or deny a legal activity should they desire it.

3) If business really increases see #1, they would have been out of business a long time ago pushed out by the (imaginary) market for smoke free bars

4) See #1.. And its not their job to worry about your health thats *your* job..

[NashVegas]

151. Try Advertising

Before it became law in New York State, there were non-smoking clubs that would advertise that little fact. They were always packed, as a result.

[StarryNite]

96. And you can just live

in a state that still allows smoking everywhere. And should the majority of voters in your state decide to ban smoking in restaurants etc. then you can just move to a different state, it's that simple.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

112. And you can live in a state where revolutaniory free speech is allowed

but if the majority decides to silence dissidence you can just move somewhere else..

[StarryNite]

133. Smoking bans are happening

across the country. More and more states are passing them. You've had your day in the sun or the bar or restaurant. Hopefully your 2 little angels won't have to choke on the smoke of others for that much longer.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

144. Sorry Charlie

"You've had your day in the sun or the bar or restaurant."

I don't smoke and I don't take my kids where people are smoking, you see us big boys and girls are capable of looking out for our health without crapping on the rights of private business owners...

[StarryNite]

156. My name isn't Charlie...

And there is nothing wrong with big girls and boys passing laws that help to protect the health of others. Or do you think everybody should be able to do whatever they want? Drive drunk for instance? If somebody doesn't want to be at risk of drunk drivers maybe they should just stay home? There are lots of laws that are there to protect us from people who don't give a damn about others.

[Caoimhe]

161. good point n/t

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

164. You dont have to take a test or obtain a license to drink/smoke

but you do to drive..

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

56. The majority is not always right

and the bill of rights exist to protect the rights of all from the tyranny of the majority.

[kirby]

97. The majority is not always wrong either...

and in this case they've got the facts on their side vs the emotion/addiction/big tobacco on the other side.

[LynneSin]

37. Smokers makes a choice - why should those of us who choose not to smoke suffer?

No one held a gun to your head and said "YOU SMOKE THIS CIGERETTE".

What really is sad is your screen name. You know I was daddy's lil angel too. I loved my dad like there was no tomorrow. But he wouldn't give up his cigerettes. And at age 41 (while I was only 14 years old) I lost my hero. If those 2 kids are your angel then perhaps you should do something to ensure you're gonna be around for awhile. You know what it's like to be a kid and watch your father rot away in front of your eyes - that's what lung cancer does.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

47. My Great-grandfather who never smoked died of lung cancer.

who can I blame for that? :shrug:

[kwassa]

54. My grandfather was an invalid for 15 years with emphysema from smoking

His lungs filled with fluid, he was confined to a bed, mostly, and was very unhappy.

here is information about lung cancer.

http://quitsmoking.about.com/od/tobaccostatistics/a/cancerstats.htm

"When people think of cancers caused by smoking, the first one that comes to mind is always lung cancer. Most cases of lung cancer death, close to 90% in men, and 80% in women are caused by cigarette smoking. There are several other forms of cancer attributed to smoking as well, and they include cancer of the oral cavity, pharynx, larynx, esophagus, bladder, stomach, cervix, kidney and pancreas, and acute myeloid leukemia. The list of additives allowed in the manufacture of cigarettes consists of 599 possible ingredients. When burned, cigarette smoke contains over 4000 chemicals, with over 40 of them being known carcinogens.

Cancer is the second leading cause of death and was among the first diseases causally linked to smoking.

Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer death, and cigarette smoking causes most cases.
Compared to nonsmokers, men who smoke are about 23 times more likely to develop lung cancer and women who smoke are about 13 times more likely.

from

U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The Health Consequences of Smoking: A Report of the Surgeon General. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, Office on Smoking and Health, 2004.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

67. That's sad

but still none of you are addressing the pollution we all breathe in every day because of cars, factories, coal plants... and don't even get me started on the indoor pollutions...

"Indoor air pollution often poses a greater health risk than outdoor air pollution," said Gilbert S. Omenn, chairman of the Commission and dean of the University of Washington’s School of Public Health and Community Medicine in Seattle. "Unregulated use of pesticides, cleaning chemicals, deodorants, and emissions from gas and wood stoves generate high concentrations of potentially toxic indoor air pollutants."
http://www.riskworld.com/news/97q1/nw7aa027.htm
Worst Pollution Risks Moving Indoors

Not so sweet home: Toxins lurk in air, dust, even cleaning supplies

We clean with them. We build them into our walls and cabinets. We spray them on bugs, weeds and gardens.
We drag them into the house on our shoes and we stir them up when we walk on our carpets.
They're in our toys, our shower curtains, our clothes, the water bottles we use for hiking and the baby bottles we use for breast milk and formula. They're in the televisions we watch and some of the computers that entertain us.
More and more chemicals and unhealthy substances are embedded in our daily lives. And they swirl together inside our tightly built personal spaces to create new, and very personal, toxic hot spots: our homes.
Before even stepping outside in the morning, we are exposed to more severe pollution than we get from landfills, hazardous waste sites or smokestacks, say many scientists, including retired Environmental Protection Agency officials.
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1224933/worst_pollution_risks_moving_indoors/index.html

http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35381

WHY ARE SMOKERS GETTING ALL THE FLACK?

[kwassa]

74. because smoking is an addictive source of fatal disease easily eradicated.

The other pollutants should be eliminated as well, as all health hazards should.

[kirby]

88. Wrong thread...

While your issues are very valid, they don't relate to the MD smoking ban that was passed (and delayed from Jan 1 to Feb 1 to appease New Years revelers). The MD ban had 73% public support in the most recent poll.

Many progressives are aware, and working towards, and trying to get stuff done for the air quality issue.

[madinmaryland]

57. My grand-father smoked till he died at 85, and did not die of lung

cancer.

Go figure. :shrug:

[LynneSin]

58. Oh that lovely strawman

Yes, non-smokers can die of many of the smoking related illnesses HOWEVER, the rate dramatically increases when you are a smoker. Everyday we play russian roulette with our lungs thanks to rampant pollution. Smokers just add about 3-4 extra bullets to their gun.

[Midlodemocrat]

60. Great post. And, dead on.

[LanternWaste]

120. You're clever... I'm sure you can find someone to blame

You're clever... I'm sure you can find someone to blame while exonerating smokers worldwide at the same time. We have faith in you!

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

61. So did The

People who go to a privately owned business in which smoking occurs. No one held a gun to your head and said "COME TO THIS BOWLING ALLEY".

"If those 2 kids are your angel then perhaps you should do something to ensure you're gonna be around for awhile."

I really appreciate the thought but I'm not a smoker, nor a drinker (though I do occasionally enjoy a beer)...

[kwassa]

70. Cigarettes serve no positive social purpose. None.

We should all be protected from them.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

76. Neither does weed, alcohol, pornography, ....

[quip]

85. Exactly. I just want people to acknowledge the duplicity of their Angst Against Smoke

That's all. And that is all.

[LanternWaste]

124. I don't think that the smoke from weed contains

I don't think that the smoke from weed contains formaldehydes, salt peter, ammonia, etc...

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

145. Fact..

"Like tobacco smoke, marijuana smoke contains a number of irritants and carcinogens."

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

[kwassa]

87. But those can be used healthfully in moderation. Smoking can't.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

95. Really?

1) A majority of studies suggest that smoking decreases appetite.

One cigarette a day can really help the diet which, of course, can help prevent obesity related ailments

From Wiki:

Several types of "Smoker’s Paradoxes",<42> (cases where smoking appears to have specific beneficial effects), have been observed; often the actual mechanism remains undetermined. Risk of ulcerative colitis has been frequently shown to be reduced by smokers on a dose-dependent basis; the effect is eliminated if the individual stops smoking.<43><44> Smoking appears to interfere with development of Kaposi's sarcoma,<45> breast cancer among women carrying the very high risk BRCA gene,<46> preeclampsia,<47> and atopic disorders such as allergic asthma.<48> A plausible mechanism of action in these cases may be the nicotine in tobacco smoke acting as an anti-inflammatory agent and interfering with the disease process.<49>

Evidence suggests that non-smokers are up to twice as likely as smokers to develop Parkinson's disease or Alzheimer's disease<50>. A plausible explanation for these cases may be the effect of nicotine, a cholinergic stimulant, decreasing the levels of acetylcholine in the smoker's brain; Parkinson's disease occurs when the effect of dopamine is less than that of acetylcholine. In addition, nicotine stimulates the mesolimbic dopamine pathway (as do other drugs of abuse), causing and effective increase in dopamine levels. Opponents counter by noting that consumption of pure nicotine may be as beneficial as smoking without the risks associated with smoking e.g. CO poisoning.

Considering the high rates of physical sickness and deaths<51> <52> among persons suffering from schizophrenia, one of smoking's short term benefits is its temporary effect to improve alertness and cognitive functioning in that disease.<53> It has been postulated that the mechanism of this effect is that schizophrenics have a disturbance of nicotinic receptor functioning.<54> Rates of smoking have been found to be much higher in schizophrenics.<55>

--

BTW on the whole modertion thing..

My brother who quite some time ago now smokes socially when the family gets together (many of my sibs smoke) and when we get together in the summer we usually have a bond fire with pork chops and beer.. Also whenever we all hang out during the year. I myself smoke *maybe* one to two cigs a year on average..

[kwassa]

102. oh, I am sure that outweighs the 400,000 that die from smoking-related illnesses each year

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/Factsheets/cig_smoking_mort.htm

Fact Sheet

Cigarette Smoking-Related Mortality
(updated September 2006)

Cigarette smoking is the single most preventable cause of premature death in the United States. Each year, more than 400,000 Americans die from cigarette smoking. In fact, one in every five deaths in the United States is smoking related. Every year, smoking kills more than 276,000 men and 142,000 women.1

(great detailed chart by disease at this site)

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

117. Well you said alchol can be enjoyed in moderation

Yet

--

75,000 people will die this year because of alcohol Sure its not up there in the big leagues but this does not even count auto accidents or abuse... surly we need to ban alcohol in bars

[LanternWaste]

123. All other things being equal, what you mentioned are not addictive.

All other things being equal, what you mentioned are not addictive.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

138. Youre kidding right

Alcohol is not addictive... Wow...

[NashVegas]

155. Again, Not True (Porn is Questionable)

Alcohol and weed are VERY social drugs, especially among under-age minors who share a common risk when they enjoy them together.

Porn is more of a solo thing.

[NashVegas]

154. That's Not True At All

Asking for a cigarette is a quick and easy conversation opener.

[madinmaryland]

82. What about the 100,000,000 people in this country

who do not live in large cities, who may only have ONE bowling alley, ONE restaurant, and ONE bar?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

100. Chance are if youre in a town with only one resturant

Its not hopping... What about the person who owns the establishment who's very livelihood relies on it staying in business?

[madinmaryland]

107. I guess what you are trying to say is that the almighty dollar

and the bottom line of the business man is more important than the health of innocent people.

Guess I have absolutely no response that assertion you have just made! I hear Ron Paul is looking for supporters!

Bye!

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

114. No but thanks for playing..

The rights of the private property owner (in this case the private owner of the bar, or the home, or the car) is more important than society imposing itself for 'the common good'.

[madinmaryland]

119. Well, I'll leave it that we have fundamental difference.

That being where individual rights and the rights of society prevail.

On a side note where do you stand on car air-bags, seat belts, and other "safety" features on vehicles? Are not these also for the "common good" of society?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

130. Well

"On a side note where do you stand on car air-bags, seat belts, and other "safety" features on vehicles? "

If for them but thats neither her nor there its not at a meaningful level related.

FWIW if you wanted to start banning or reducing chemicals allowed in cigarette's (a sort of CAFE standard for coffin nails) I think that would be just fine.

[alarimer]

158. It's funny how all these people whine about smoking bans

on a progressive message board and say that the business has the right to decide what goes on there complain bitterly if the workers are mistreated in some other manner. You rarely hear a true democrat say "Don't like the conditions at Wal-Mart? You can always work somewhere else." Does Wal-Mart have the right to treat their employees like crap? No they don't. They have to pay minimum wage at least and adhere to some basic labor laws (though I am sure they violate plenty). So why do otherwise progressive people complain that workers who are subjected to noxious smoke from smokers should just "get another job"?

Why do smokers think it is their god-given right to force their habit on other people? For years and years they did so. Now the tables have finally turned. We know a lot more about the toxicity of cigarettes smoke, both to smokers and others, than we did 30 years ago (in part because tobacco companies hid the true results of their studies). And frankly, smoking is just disgusting to be around. Especially around food. Yuck.

[Lorien]

84. One is too many. But here are the facts:

Secondhand Smoke Fact Sheet

June 2007

Secondhand smoke, also known as environmental tobacco smoke (ETS), is a mixture of the smoke given off by the burning end of a cigarette, pipe or cigar and the smoke exhaled from the lungs of smokers. It is involuntarily inhaled by nonsmokers, lingers in the air hours after cigarettes have been extinguished and can cause or exacerbate a wide range of adverse health effects, including cancer, respiratory infections, and asthma.1

*
Secondhand smoke has been classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a known cause of cancer in humans (Group A carcinogen).2
*
Secondhand smoke exposure causes disease and premature death in children and adults who do not smoke. Secondhand smoke contains hundreds of chemicals known to be toxic or carcinogenic, including formaldehyde, benzene, vinyl chloride, arsenic ammonia and hydrogen cyanide.3
*
Secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,400 lung cancer deaths and 46,000 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year.4
*
Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at work are at increased risk for adverse health effects. Levels of ETS in restaurants and bars were found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers and 2 to 6 times higher than in office workplaces.5
*
Since 1999, 70 percent of the U.S. workforce worked under a smoke-free policy, ranging from 83.9 percent in Utah to 48.7 percent in Nevada.6 Workplace productivity was increased and absenteeism was decreased among former smokers compared with current smokers.7
*
Fifteen states - Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Rhode Island, Washington and Vermont - as well as the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico prohibit smoking in almost all public places and workplaces, including restaurants and bars. Illinois, Maryland, Minnesota, Montana, New Hampshire, Oregon and Utah have passed legislation prohibiting smoking in almost all public places and workplaces, including restaurants and bars, but the laws have not taken full effect yet.8
*
Secondhand smoke is especially harmful to young children. Secondhand smoke is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year, and causes 430 sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) deaths in the United States annually.9
*
Secondhand smoke exposure may cause buildup of fluid in the middle ear, resulting in 790,000 physician office visits per year.10 Secondhand smoke can also aggravate symptoms in 400,000 to 1,000,000 children with asthma.11
*
In the United States, 21 million, or 35 percent of, children live in homes where residents or visitors smoke in the home on a regular basis.12 Approximately 50-75 percent of children in the United States have detectable levels of cotinine, the breakdown product of nicotine in the blood.13
*
New research indicates that private research conducted by cigarette company Philip Morris in the 1980s showed that secondhand smoke was highly toxic, yet the company suppressed the finding during the next two decades.14
*
The current Surgeon General’s Report concluded that scientific evidence indicates that there is no risk-free level of exposure to second hand smoke. Short exposures to second hand smoke can cause blood platelets to become stickier, damage the lining of blood vessels, decrease coronary flow velocity reserves, and reduce heart rate variability, potentially increasing the risk of heart attack.15

For more information on secondhand smoke, please review the Tobacco Morbidity and Mortality Trend Report as well as our Lung Disease Data publication in the Data and Statistics section of our website at www.lungusa.org, or call the American Lung Association at 1-800-LUNG-USA (1-800-586-4872).

Sources:

1. California Environmental Protection Agency. Identification of Environmental Tobacco Smoke as a Toxic Air Contaminant. Executive Summary. June 2005.
2. Ibid.
3. The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke: 6 Major Conclusions of the Surgeon General Report. A Report of the Surgeon General, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 2006; Available at: http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/factsheets/factsheet6.html: Accessed on 7/7/06
4. California Environmental Protection Agency. Identification of Environmental Tobacco Smoke as a Toxic Air Contaminant. Executive Summary. June 2005.
5. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Report on Carcinogens, Tenth Edition 2002. National Toxicology Program.
6. Shopland, D. Smoke-Free Workplace Coverage. Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine. 2001; 43(8): 680-686.
7. Halpern, M.T.; Shikiar, R.; Rentz, A.M.; Khan, Z.M. Impact of Smoking Status on Workplace Absenteeism and Productivity. Tobacco Control 2001; 10: 233-238.
8. American Lung Association. State Legislated Actions on Tobacco Issues (SLATI). Available at: http://slati.lungusa.org/StateLegislateAction.asp Accessed on 6/18/07.
9. California Environmental Protection Agency. Identification of Environmental Tobacco Smoke as a Toxic Air Contaminant. Executive Summary. June 2005.
10. Ibid.
11. Ibid.
12. Schuster, MA, Franke T, Pham CB. Smoking Patterns of Household Members and Visitors in Homes with Children in United States. Archives of Pediatric Adolescent Medicine. Vol. 156, 2002: 1094-1100.
13. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. America’s Children and the Environment: Measures of Contaminants, Body Burdens, and Illnesses. Second Edition. February 2003
14. Diethelm PA, Rielle JC, McKee M. The Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth? The Research Philip Morris Did Not Want You to See. Lancet. Vol. 364 No. 9446, 2004
15. The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke: 6 Major Conclusions of the Surgeon General Report. A Report of the Surgeon General, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 2006; Available at: http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/factsheets/factsheet6.html: Accessed on 7/7/06

[madinmaryland]

108. Thanks Lorien for posting this information.

A lot of people seem to put business' interests over the health and life of people.

[Lorien]

162. Well, I'm afraid the facts won't matter to a lot of people

DU turns into "Libertarian Underground" when addictions are perceived to be under attack. It's human nature to become extremely defensive and ignore the facts when you know that you are doing something that's not only bad for you, but bad for those around you. The same will happen on any thread that slams SUVs or the consumption of red meat (a major contributor to global warming), or even trans fats and GM foods! Protests of "It's about choice" and "Personal Freedom"! will be heard time and time again, as if the right to suck tobacco smoke into your lungs where ever you please is every bit as important as a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy or a citizen's right to publicly express their views. Once upon a time being a Democrat included the belief that the good of the many outweighed the desires of the few, and that the publics health should be protected whenever possible. Perhaps times have changed.

[Lorien]

92. 49,400 each year. See above post. n/t

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

12. Yea not to mention

Adults cant go out and enjoy a legal activity or own a bar/restaurant and allow a legal activity...

This fascist state crap sickens me...

[kirby]

17. Huh?

It is a public health issue. It really should be regulated by the FDA anyhow. You can still do it outside, in your home, and you can still poison your children, if you wish.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

25. Everything can be a public health issue

Lets ban fatty foods because some people have impulse problems and damn that guy eating a big-mac is going to make me go off my diet... Mmm smell those fries..

"You can still do it outside"

Give it time sooner rather than later it will 'you have to be x distance from a building' which would put you in the middle of a street or some other nonsense.

"and you can still poison your children, if you wish."

I'm sorry but most of the insipid crap on cable is worse for a kid then second hand smoke. And we are already seeing some laws starting to say you cant smoke in a car with a kid, how much longer until its a room and then a home..

This is pure crap..


I have to put a disclaimer here

--

1) I dont smoke, its a vile disgusting habit with no redeemable social benefits
2) I dont own a bar or restaurant

[kirby]

31. The slippery slope argument...

That argument means nothing would ever be done about anything.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

49. No it just means we dont crap on a freedom to make us all better

Freedoms are protected more because of this crap than people who do it for evil..

God save us from those who would trample our freedoms for the public good..

[LanternWaste]

128. As a smoker, I'm crapping on the freedoms

As a smoker, I'm crapping on the freedoms of a lot more people than are crapping on mine...

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio than are dreamed of in your typical bumper sticker sophistries...

[madinmaryland]

41. A couple of points about your arguments:

1.) Second hand smoking has a direct negative impact on people, whereas fatty foods only have a direct impact on the person ingesting that crap.

2.) Second hand smoking does have a direct impact on children, and if in a restaurant or car with smokers they are stuck inhaling it, whereas you can always shut the freaking tv off!

:shrug:

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

50. Picking at nits

"1.) Second hand smoking has a direct negative impact on people, whereas fatty foods only have a direct impact on the person ingesting that crap."

Well people can become food addicting and you make it damn near impossible for them to go out to a bor or restaurant (or work in one) when you serve the wings..

"Second hand smoking does have a direct impact on children, and if in a restaurant or car with smokers they are stuck inhaling it, whereas you can always shut the freaking tv off!"

Ahhh but you can also put out a cigarette around kids the question is if A is compulsory why not B?

[madinmaryland]

69. Not sure what your response is to my first comment and

are you saying that if you go to a restaurant, you would ask all of the smokers to stop?

BTW, do you smoke in your home with your two angels?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

78. To clarify

People who are food addicts can be seriously harmed by being exposed to junky food and obesity is as much a killer as second hand smoke..

As to the smoking..

I dont smoke anywhere..

[madinmaryland]

94. My point is, which you don't seem to get,

is that food addicts are only killing themselves, where smokers are killing others with their smoke (i.e. second hand smoke). Also food addicts choose to expose themselves to fatty food, where as the receipiants of second hand smoke do not!

I'm glad that you don't smoke and expose your two little angels to second hand smoke. Do you take them to restaurants where they might be exposed to second hand smoke?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

101. Nope I made a choice not to

use my love for my daughters as an excuse to bully private business owners..

[LanternWaste]

129. What's the ratio of food addicts to nicotine addicts?

What's the ratio of food addicts to nicotine addicts? It seems relevant....

[LynneSin]

66. Personally I think going after fatty foods isn't a bad idea.

But that's just me.

[madinmaryland]

73. I don't have a problem going after fatty foods,

but the analogy is that there is no such thing as second hand fat. :rofl: (I can't believe I said that!)

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

81. Some how I did not think you would

object to fascism of the diet as well

[kwassa]

93. Facism of the diet ? Are you calling us Diet Facists?

In addition to being Smoking Nazis?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

104. Oh that name will never do for marketing

Lets see..

"Are you calling us Diet Facists?"

How about:

Facists light?
Facists one? (Just one calorie)


--

In all seriousness yes I am. Its bad enough that people are trying to ban smoking as there is at least the second hand argument (though I don't think thats enough to stop a small business owner from letting people smoke) but when you start talking about playing the food police? thats obscene..

[kwassa]

109. well, about 30% of cancers are related to diet, says the CDC

Time for Diet Facism.

http://www.cspinet.org/nutritionpolicy/nutrition_policy.html#1

Leading Contributors to Premature Death

Diet and Physical Inactivity 310,000-580,000

Tobacco 260,000-470,000

(jump)

The typical American diet is too high in saturated fat, sodium, and sugar and too low in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, calcium, and fiber. Such a diet contributes to four of the six leading causes of death and increases the risk of numerous diseases, including:

heart disease
diabetes
obesity
hypertension
stroke
osteoporosis
many cancers (colon, prostate, mouth, throat, esophagus, lung, stomach)

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

116. So 100% of those

are related to individuals choice.. Im still waiting for a reason to limit peoples freedoms..

[kwassa]

118. because it runs up health insurance premiums for everyone, making it unaffordable for many

http://www.cspinet.org/nutritionpolicy/nutrition_policy.html#4


"According to the USDA, healthier diets could prevent at least $71 billion per year in medical costs, lost productivity, and lost lives.5 That is an underestimate because it accounts for only diet-related coronary heart disease, stroke, cancer, and diabetes and not other diet-related diseases. Obesity alone is estimated to cost $117 billion, and osteoporosis costs $14 billion in medical expenses.

According to the CDC, state and federal governments spend one thousand times more to treat disease than to prevent it ($1,390 vs. $1.21 per person"

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

127. Well if thats the case

Im for genetically screening people before we let them have kids...

No more serious genetic disease that drive up the cost of medicine..

[kwassa]

132. Eating is voluntary behavior, and genetics are involuntary.

your analogy doesn't exist.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

134. Ahhh but who you breed with *is* voulntary...

[kwassa]

135. and what is your point?

Some people with hereditary genetic conditions do choose not to have children.

and you keep making comparisons of small total to big total costs.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

147. But

The ones who do drive up insurance premiums and as you say thats a reason to start banning things..

[kwassa]

43. You say cable TV is worse than second-hand smoke for your children?

can you direct me to the scientific study on that? or, uh, any evidence?

That's one I'd like to see!

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

55. Well... Because you *really* want to see it

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2109-tv-viewing-linked-to-adult-violence.html

Watching just one hour of television a day can make a person more violent towards others, according to a 25-year study. In some circumstances, TV watching increases the risk of violence by five times. The new research indicates the effect is seen not just in children, as has been suggested before, but in adults as well.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7626

Decades of studies have linked childhood hours in front of the TV with aggressive behaviour, earlier sexual activity, smoking, obesity, and poor school performance. The research has lead the American Academy of Pediatrics to suggest children watch no more than 2 hours of TV per day and that children under 2 years old watch none at all.

Kids who watched the least TV – especially between the ages of 5 and 11 – had the highest probability of graduating from university by the age of 26, regardless of IQ or socioeconomic status. While those who watched the most TV, more than 3 hours per day, had the highest chance of dropping out of school without qualifications.

--

[kwassa]

79. oh please ...

http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422

Secondhand smoke is especially harmful to young children. Secondhand smoke is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year, and causes 430 sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) deaths in the United States annually.9

Secondhand smoke exposure may cause buildup of fluid in the middle ear, resulting in 790,000 physician office visits per year.10 Secondhand smoke can also aggravate symptoms in 400,000 to 1,000,000 children with asthma.11

In the United States, 21 million, or 35 percent of, children live in homes where residents or visitors smoke in the home on a regular basis.12 Approximately 50-75 percent of children in the United States have detectable levels of cotinine, the breakdown product of nicotine in the blood.13

New research indicates that private research conducted by cigarette company Philip Morris in the 1980s showed that secondhand smoke was highly toxic, yet the company suppressed the finding during the next two decades.14

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

86. So its a metter of degree?

So what exactly is the number before we ban a behavior 'for the kids'?

[kwassa]

90. hey, you compared cable TV to smoking, not me!

It is your farfetched analogy, not mine.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

105. Can you answer the question then...

If smoking is ok to ban because it can hurt kids but TV is silly because it does not hurt *enough* kids may I ask what the number or severity of the action is that we can ban 'for the children'

[kwassa]

110. Smoking is a huge proven health risk. Cable TV is not.

why is this even under discussion?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

113. You dont think voilent stupid kids are a health risk

The was a 25+ years study with real measurable and repeatable results..

[kwassa]

122. um, there are no measurements in that quote of yours.

[LanternWaste]

131. So cable teevee is responsible for over a quarter million

So cable teevee is responsible for over a quarter million respiratory tract infections a year?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

52. It's already happening... California City Approves Outdoor Smoking Ban

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5C%5CNation%5C%5Carchive%5C%5C200602%5C%5CNAT20060202b.html

lots more, just Google "outdoor smoking ban"

[LanternWaste]

126. All other things being equal...

All other things being equal, engaging in sex is legal. But I can't do it in a restaurant. Go figure--that damned fascist state crap, huh?.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

148. Sex in public is legal..

Can I have sex on my front lawn as the schoolbus goes by?

I sure can smoke a coffin nail on my lawn (well until the smoking gestapo takes their campaign up a notch then Ill have to present my papers)

[skypilot]

9. As a smoker...

...I perfectly understand and agree with smoking bans in restaurants. In fact, I've always kind of assumed that smoking was banned in restaurants in my city (Philadelphia) even before it actually was. Smoking bans in ALL bars I'm not so crazy about and it didn't go over so well here. The city allowed for exemptions for bars that sold little or no food. You didn't have to get the exemption if you didn't want it. Some bars applied for it others didn't. The people who want to drink AND smoke have places to go and the people who just want to drink and not be around cigarette smoke have places they can go. Works for me.

[quip]

13. Nice post, Big Nanny Brother

[TZ]

35. I will have you know..

The rest of Maryland is several years behind MY county in this. Madinmaryland lives in the less cool part of the state! Ha!

[quip]

53. When will people learn that the coolness of a bar depends upon 4 things:

1. Smokey air
2. Jukebox music
3. Low lighting (augmented by neon signs)
4. Alcohol

And not necessarily in that order. Remove any one of these coolness factors and you have squaresville.

[TZ]

152. I'm going to be completely honest here

I've spent my fair share of time in just those types of bars (dancing-line dancing, swing dancing, country dancing). One of my favorite places (which sadly is no longer in business) was a redneck/biker place that your post descibed to a tee. It was a fun place, and I loved meeting friends up there to go dancing/socialize. The problem was the smoke. After a time it just got to me, made my eyes water, cough, (especially after vigorous dancing) and I would have to leave. Usually, it took a couple of hours but sometimes less. And when I got home..my clothes smelled so nasty I had to put them in the laundry room.
I think people can go outside to smoke, like most people have to do during work....

PS--You would like to watch me dance, I think...plenty of guys did...;)

[quip]

159. I'll be on my bunk

:hi:

[madinmaryland]

64. Hey, wait a second there Snyder!

My county has the best rated schools in the state of Maryland!

:hi:

[DesertFlower]

14. i hope it happens in every state.

i'm a former smoker who stopped when i realized how offensive it was to non-smokers -- many of whom were my friends.

"smokers' rights end where my nose begins."

[Deep13]

18. Wow, Ohio beat Maryland in protecting public health?

Maybe there is hope for us in the Buckeye state.

[TZ]

38. Parts of MD have had this for years

I think my county was if not the first, one of the first to institutuionize this. Coincidentally since this went into effect both my mother and stepfather quit smoking...

[madinmaryland]

45. Howard County went smokeless three years ago.

[devilgrrl]

19. Been like that in California the past 10 years - what took MD so long?

eom

[kirby]

23. Big Tobacco...

"Only about 150 tobacco farmers remain in Maryland, in what was once a booming industry. Maryland's tobacco crop production has been sharply declining since a state-funded program began in 1999, which gave tobacco farmers money to voluntarily stop growing the crop and to grow an alternative in its place. Farmers who stopped producing tobacco to take the 10-year buyout received $1 for every pound of tobacco they would have produced. As of February this year, 854 Maryland tobacco farmers, representing nearly 7.65 million pounds of tobacco, had signed up for the buyout, according to the Maryland Tobacco Authority.

Of the remaining handful of farmers, about 90 percent of them are Amish or Mennonite, Conrad says. If they choose to continue production this year, they have the option to sell directly to Phillip Morris USA."

Source: http://www.outlook.umd.edu/article.cfm?id=2356

[TZ]

157. MD has the HIGHEST tobacco tax in the country

Trust me. Big Tobacco has ZIP influence in Maryland. Its VIRGINIA that has oodles of Tobacco farmers.

[SPKrazy]

21. Rock On!!!!!!111

smoking sucks

smokers should smoke in their cars or outside

not in places where other non smokers would like to breathe

:woohoo:

great thread

smokers should hangout with the cornflake chicken loving Olive garden suv driving breastfeeding crowd outside!!!!!

[RamboLiberal]

27. Wish Pennsylvania's stupid legislature would catch up

And enact the smoking ban they've been promising. We're the ashtray of the Northeast!

[Bake]

28. As promised in your Lounge thread, I'm officially flaming you.

And now I'm going for a smoke. I hope you're not offended by that.

:hi:

Bake

[madinmaryland]

30. Flame away all you want! OUTSIDE!!1!!

:hi:

[Bake]

34. Gladly!

Until you Smoke Nazis ban me from my beloved weeds even in the Smoking Prison (i.e., the Designated Smoking Area).

So there!

Bake

[stimbox]

36. When is Skinner going to make a Smoking Section (dungeon)?

[quip]

48. LOL That would be a cool place (like the Lounge). And non-smoker DUers would want to be

all up in the coolness and come in. And then they'd start complaining about all of the smoke. And then.... well, you get the idea.

[Midlodemocrat]

65. The cool DUers ARE the non smokers.

Like the Mercer supporters.


:hide:

[LynneSin]

68. But I'm a non-smoker AND non-mercer

Where am I stuck - in Purgatory

[kwassa]

83. Half-cool, of course.

[quip]

77. ...

:popcorn:

[PVnRT]

51. OMGz teh facism!

sux0rzzz

[Viva_La_Revolution]

71. I must say... there's nothing like a good Hate the Smokers thread to take my mind off of Edwards

dropping out.

:rofl:

[no name no slogan]

89. As long as they don't have an inhaling law, I don't care

/ smokin'

/ but not

/ inhalin'

[kirby]

91. Bill? Is that you? n/t

[El Pinko]

115. Cool - Maryland just became a little nicer!

NT

[jhain]

136. Yee HAW!

Best thing that ever happened here in NJ!

[Caoimhe]

140. My mom died from smoking related health issues 4 months ago

She chain smoked from the age of about 13 to her dying day at age 60, on Sept. 1, 2007. As kids we tried EVERYTHING to get her to stop. We'd bring home literature on the evils of smoking from health class and stash them in various drawers in the kitchen so she'd find them. It just pissed her off. My brothers put those little snap things in her cigarettes.. that REALLY pissed her off. She would smoke in the car with us, with the windows rolled up... because she didn't want to waste the car heater. All three of us were plagued by chronic ear, nose, throat infections through our childhood. My mom once told me, without much thought of how I'd react.. that she was smoking a cigarette in the delivery room when she pushed me into the world. I was disgusted.. she shrugged and said times were different. All of us kids had a ritual garbage disposal sendoff of her last unfinished carton. Yes, I'm bitter. I wish I could have known her without that CONSTANT stupid piece of crap hanging out of her mouth. I wish I didn't have kids at school always call me ashtray because my clothes and backpack were so imbibed with smoke. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad for the 36 years I knew her, I loved her so much and I know she'd have done anything for us kids... except quit smoking. It's that powerful.

On a much lighter note.. how about the FUME BOOTH as a solution? Put people in a box, let them imbibe their smoke, they can then FLUSH the crappy pollution out into a scrubber/filtration system, and everyone's happy. Maybe even those old style scuba helmets... attach cigarette to small one way valve that sucks all smoke directly into helmet. If not, why not?

http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Fume_20Booth

[Lorien]

163. I'm so sorry for your loss, and for what you endured as a child

:hug:

I'm very worried about my father, as he was a chain smoker for most of his life as well. He gave it up about six years ago after his girlfriend gave him an ultimatum, thank goodness. But I , too, grew up with all kinds of health problems related to secondhand smoke. How do you tolerate cigarette smoke today? My eyes get bright red and my nose starts streaming almost instantly if I get a whiff of the stuff anymore. When I visit Paris I wear one of those portable ionic air filters around my neck, and I usually hold it up to my nose. It's kind of embarrassing, but it's the only way I can manage the environment there.

I like your fume booth idea. Heck, a few airports nearly seem to have those already!

[Caoimhe]

173. Thankyou and I am the same way.

I hope your dad is one of those titanium lung types who can bounce back as if he never smoked. I've never seen a portable ionic air filter, but that sounds great! Does it work for stinky public restrooms too? When I'm around smokers, my nose and lungs scream "NOOOOO!" and my eyes water. Even just a whiff will give me a coughing fit, and that the tickle can take hours to go away, even when the smoke is gone. I remember when I was about 17, I went on a date and had no idea the guy smoked. He hid it well. He kissed me and I nearly threw up. Needless to say that relationship was doomed. I married someone (a nonsmoker) who grew up in a 2-smoker household and he's the opposite of me. He doesn't even NOTICE smoke. I on the other hand, can be standing outside, with a brisk wind, and STILL smell cigarette smoke from someone 50+ yards away. His parents still smoke, and when we go to stay with them, I spend the entire time feeling miserable, face enflamed and like I can't breathe. If I say something, I'm the bad guy. I don't know how people can maintain their intimate relationships when they smell/taste so nasty.

Phoenix airport has a "fume booth" for sure.. Talk about a cancer tank! A few years back I visited a friend at the Veteran's hospital in Portland, Oregon. At the time, the parking structure was right next to the hospital, and there were big windows looking in on certain sections of the hospital. I was shocked to see an entire ward of elderly veterans limping around in a smoke filled "fume booth" the size of several railcars. It was big, but the air was a haze. We're talking men in hospital gowns wheeling around IV carts, chain smoking. I doubt they still have that there, but you never know. It made me really sad and angry at this terrible vice that while being a stupid thing to start, is a true addiction and the big tobacco companies have done everything in their power to hook the public on them through the last century. All for profit. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of how much smoking-related illnesses cost our nation yearly. Probably not too hard to find.

Thanks again for your kind words. I do miss my mom terribly. Please, if you haven't already, hug your dad today if possible. We can never know when it's the last.

-Caoimhe

[Mugu]

142. Great, now lets go after the assholes that wear perfumed products in public.

If you want to stink like a cheap whorehouse stay home so the rest of us don't have to smell you. It's not possible to enjoy a nice meal with a skunk in the room. Now we have the template to successfully outlaw this rude behavior, time to get started.

Regards, Mugu

[madinmaryland]

166. I have not heard of any perfume that kills people by the thousands that don't

even use the fucking product. DO YOU?

Perfume may stink, but it doesn't kill thousands.

[Snarkturian Clone]

143. Hooray for a restriction of freedom that closes businesses!!

Woohoo!! Woohoo!! One less right for business owners! Yay!!! Make those EVIL people, the smokers, PAY for their the horrendously evil deed of smoking within 15 feet of you and making you slightly uncomfortable for 5 minutes! YAAYY!!! YAY for unproven science!!! Yay!!! Down with freedom!!!

P.S. I don't smoke. I, as a human, have the strange and wonderful ability to TAKE CARE OF MYSELF and adapt to my surroundings without the government forcing my decision-making process. One day, most of you smoking ban lovers will stop being crybaby hypochondriacs and learn how to live.

[Name removed]

165. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[neverforget]

168. Great reply!

:toast:

[Snarkturian Clone]

170. What greed?

Being able to adapt to my environment is not greed. Did you even read my post? Hypochondriac.

[Midlodemocrat]

171. .

:rofl:

:thumbsup:

[Critters2]

149. Congrats! Illinois' took effect the 1st of the year, and it's great!

There are restaurants I'd stopped going anywhere near, because I'd come out smelling like an ashtray. Now, they're downright pleasant. You'll be quite pleased with the change. I am.

[anitar1]

153. Looks like we have the semi annual thread about smoking again.

So boring.Makes me laugh at how quickly all of the saints and demons pop out.