What do you think Mr. Jefferson would have to say about..

[Virginia Dare]

surveillance cameras, or wire tapping for that matter?

Something tells me he wouldn't be too supportive of the idea.

[iamthebandfanman]

1. probably nothing

hed already have been arrested.

[ixion]

2. our Founding Fathers would be deeply disappointed in us

for squandering the freedom they brought us. We were warned over and over again, and yet here we are.

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. The tree of liberty must be watered from time to time

with the blood of patriots.

[MADem]

4. He might have loved them, to keep an eye on his slaves.

He was a cheap son of a bitch:

Thomas Jefferson made a habit of inspecting his plantation in the afternoon to monitor the work of the 150 slaves who worked at Monticello and his outlying farms. Always interested in measurements and record-keeping, Jefferson made extensive notations about his slaves and their duties in his Farm Book and Memorandum Books. For instance, he noted the rations his overseer distributed, the number of yards he purchased for clothing, the daily task required by particular slaves, and the cost of items purchased for use in the kitchen.
http://www.monticello.org/jefferson/dayinlife/plantation/home.html

[Virginia Dare]

7. That's why he and Madison understood tyranny so well..

they saw it nearly every day of their lives.

I think both he and Washington were rather obsessive, brilliant people often are.

[JDPriestly]

8. He was a surveyor and a scientist also. He measured everything.

He gave his life and his wealth to his country. He had slaves as did many. The abolitionist movement did not really begin until about 1776 although a decision that slavery was not legal in England was handed down in 1772.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism

Slavery was a horrible thing. But the most horrible thing is that it still exists today, including in Africa. Most of us do not even realize the extent to which it still exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

[MADem]

9. It exists here in the US--there are sex slaves being held in captivity right here in America. NT

[gatorboy]

15. Damn! Beat me to it.

[Burma Jones]

5. He would be dismissed today as some sort of crazy Egg-Head

and the other founders would be dismissed as unattractive cranks.

Except George Washington, he's Dreeeeeeeeamy......

[Hydra]

6. Jefferson was widely reviled by the people benefitting from the status quo

So he'd see it as a symptom of a complacent society, I would think.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."

[bpj62]

10. Slavery

We often forget that in order to get the Declaration of Independence signed and the Constitution ratified all mention of slavery had to be removed or the southern colonies/states would not have signed off. It was a compromise that the founders of our country felt they had to make. Jefferson was typical of a southern land owner of the time.

[Hydra]

11. So?

Slavery is an American institution. It's still with us. It didn't die with the civil war.

You know what the slave owners in the Carribean(who's sugar plantations were built on the concept) found out after they discontinued "slavery"? That is was more profitable for them to pay workers rather than buy, feed and house them. They could even fire them if they thought they weren't working hard enough.

What about child labor? isn't having kids working in factories just as morally questionable? No safety or protections on the job?

We just have a more acceptable terms for slavery now. "Nutritionally insecure" is one of them.

[Virginia Dare]

12. This country was built on the backs of slaves and immigrants..

nothing has changed in that regard.

[bpj62]

13. Slavery Continued

Excuse me but you seem to have missed my point. I was not and am not advocating slavery nor am I saying that it was right for Jefferson or Washington to have owned slaves. Jefferson and Madisons goal was to get us independent from England and in order to do so they had to make compromises. Everyone of the signers of the Declaration of Independence had a bounty on their head that was placed there by King George III. We stand in judgement of these mens actions because they fought for the freedom to allow us to do so. We can read history and it is easy for you to cast judgment on these men but neither you nor I lived in those times and unless you have a time machine we can't do it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Err...

it was because of slave-owners like Jefferson that other, less hypocritical, Founding Fathers had to make the compromise.

[Virginia Dare]

18. Well said..

you can't attribute 21st century morals and values to 18th century men, but it's interesting to try.

and welcome to DU!...:hi:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. The hell you can't.

Two hundred years from now there's going to be some rube saying you can't criticize Hitler because 20th century morals were all different.

[Hydra]

19. I'm simply pointing out that slavery is a non-issue

My original point is that when people came asking Jefferson to "stop the peasants from rioting" he was basically unmoved. He felt that our nation had to work itself out, rather than running on a central authority giving out the word of God. Lots of people disliked him for that and other reasons- John Adams comes to mind.

While he might be considered tame by today's standards, he was a radical in his time period, and many people were scared of his message of liberty by any means. As we slip into the dark ages again, he will sound more and more radical...but as you say, he was a wealthy and privileged white man.

[gatorboy]

14. Sure he would. He could keep up with all his slaves so much easier!

Founding Fathers..... :eyes:

[Virginia Dare]

20. Well, without them..

we'd still be singing God Save The Queen and taking tea in the afternoon.

[gatorboy]

22. And universal health care, apparently.

Tally ho!

[Virginia Dare]

23. There's always a silver lining....n/t

[Swamp Rat]

16. He'd challenge King George W. Bushler to a duel.

And he'd win. :)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. Here's what Thomas Paine had to say about it.

"Society in every state is a blessing, but government, even in its best stage, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one." Thomas Paine

[bpj62]

25. Thomas Jefferson

Since slaves were property and women couldnt own land I guess you are right in stating that all of the founding fathers where white land owners. These men were some of the most progressive thinkers of the time. John Adams was a lawyer who defended the British Soldiers involved in the Boston Massacre. He did so because he felt that all men were entitled to a fair trial. Certainly they were not perfect but they did the best they could to create a nation. This was the first time that a colony rose up and fought for its independence. These men risked there property and there lives to ensure that you and I can have this conversation. My father immigrated from Ireland, a country that was kept in virtual poverty and servitude by the British until they to rose up and said enough is enough. My grandfather fought the british and then he fought Michael Collins. I don't second guess my grandfathers actions because I wasn't there and I didnt liver in his times. My moral beliefs and values cannot be placed on men whose actions took place 230 years ago.