Now THIS is a CULT: Scientology faces Day of Worldwide Protests 2.10.08

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

Today, Feb. 10, 2008, is the anniversary of what would have been Lisa McPherson’s 49th birthday.

Lisa, who died on Dec. 5, 1995 under suspicious circumstances, is considered by many to be a victim of Scientology’s quackery.

Now there is video of (sic) a year 2000 events in which Scientology leader David Miscavige mocks the death of Lisa McPherson while spinning the facts on how they ‘won’ the criminal case filed against the ‘church.’

More: http://www.religionnewsblog.com/20583/protest-scientology-3

Miscavige video: http://glosslip.com/2008/02/09/david-miscavige-defends-the-church-of-scientology-mocks-the-death-of-lisa-mcpherson/

Links to videos of London protests: http://www.religionnewsblog.com/20596/london-scientology-protest

[Redstone]

1. Aliens in the volcanoes! Aliens in the volcanoes! And let's NOT forget that they charge you

fifteen grand before they'll even TELL you about the Aliens in the Volcanoes.

Redstone

[Fire Walk With Me]

4. I don't think that any science-fiction story has ever made more money.

[BearSquirrel2]

10. I dunno ...

Steven Spielberg makes quite a bit of money on Science Fiction stories. It may be enough to rival Scientology. Maybe he'll start a church.

On the good side, I think that Tom Cruise's antics may put a kabosh on the strong compliment of Scientologists in film. He burned Viacom pretty bad. If you know that they are a kind of mafia, you'll be less likely to hire their actors.

BTW, I think Matt Stone and Trey Parker really showed Hollywood how to deal with Scientology. They liked Isaac Hayes, but they had ZERO compunction about disposing with Chef. And of course, they did it one better by turning Chef into a child molester. It sends a very strong message. We'll drop you off a cliff, tear off your limbs and tear your heart out before we let you blackmail us. ;-)

[Wizard777]

50. H. G. Wells' War Of The Worlds pulled in 100 million at the box office not that long ago. n/t

[Raster]

18. And a LOUSY-assed science fiction story from a mediocre writer.

Oh the things people will do for money...

[Warren Stupidity]

2. Out of curiousity, anyone know how many people the Roman Catholic

Cult has killed over the last 2000 years or so?

Why is it ok to bash just this cult here?

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. Likely in the millions, perhaps multi-millions.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

6. Because there are real markers that define a cult

And the RCC doesn't meet them.

Educate yourself: www.rickross.com

[Warren Stupidity]

17. Wow that was quite an education.

Rick has to toss out webster's definition as it agrees with me that cult and religion are the same. That site is quite the judgemental hate fest. I urge everyone to go see what they are up to. Rick's definition: "you are a cult if I say you are a cult", just paraphrasing of course.

Here is webster:
1. A formal religious veneration 2. A system of religious beliefs and rituals also its body of adherents; 3. A religion regarded as "unorthodox or spurious.";

I'll stick with that, thanks.

[Redstone]

7. 1) The Catholic Church doesn't sue people who ctiricize it, and

2) The Catholic Church (and pretty much EVERY religion) doesn't CHARGE YOU MONEY to tell what their beliefs are.

I have my own problems with the Catholic Church, but there's not legitimate comparison between them (or pretty much any other Christian or non-Christian faith) and Scientology, which isn't a faith; it's a business.

Want to know what the Christians believe? Ask them, or read the Bible.

Want to know what Moslems believe? Ask them, or read the Koran.

You get the idea.

Redstone

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

9. The Catholic Church didn't track me down and stop me from leaving it

No one from the RCC told me that the devil was waiting to kill me the second I left its protection.

No one tried to convince me that everyone who wasn't part of the church was part of a conspiracy to kill all its followers.

They didn't try to tell me who I had to marry, or where I had to live, or how much I had to pay to qualify for salvation.

All these things happen to members of real cults.

So, yeah. You're right. :thumbsup:

[Redstone]

11. Thanks for the confirmation.

Redstone

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

13. I meant - yeah, what you said.

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[Redstone]

19. I know what you meant. I was NOT being sarcastic in thanking you.

We're on the same page, here.

Redstone

[nuxvomica]

27. That's a good, concise rundown

I won't post my personal experience with that group cuz the last time I did, the thread was locked and probably correctly so. But you and Redstone are doing a fine job on this discussion and I just wanted to give you a shout cuz I appreciate it more than you know. :hi:

[Warren Stupidity]

14. You should know a bit about the history of the RCC

These days they don't track you down and sue you, in the past you were likely to get executed. As for charging money, really? They don't? Religion in this country of ours is a huge cash cow. How can that be?

No I don't get the idea. One person's cult is another person's religion. I dislike almost all organized religions as they appear to be centered around irrational belief systems and their institutions appear to prey on and exploit the death fear in people, extracting money from them in exchange for false promises of life after death.

[earth mom]

22. Are you fucking kidding?! EVERY church charges money. It's called tithing.

You know where they guilt trip you into donating a PERCENTAGE of your monthly income.

ALL religion is a business.

But only those who cloak it in God or Jesus are the ones that are allowed any respect.

Start talking Scientology or Wicca and all hell breaks loose.

Give me a break.

All religion is the same, same, same.

[Redstone]

23. No. They do NOT charge you money to find out what their ideas are.

Redstone

[earth mom]

25. They get your money regardless. Doesn't matter how. They ALL do it, that's the problem. nt

[Redstone]

26. No, actually NOT a problem. You can go to a Christian church, or a Jewish

synagogue, or a Moslem mosque, for your entire life, and they'll NEVER turn you away from the door because you don't give them money.

That's the truth, whether you like it or not.

Redstone

[BearSquirrel2]

37. There is the NORMAL collection plate ...

When the collection plate is passed, you're free to drop in a sealed envelope.

However, I've noticed that the laity in some groups are fond of "extra collections" and they know who gives what. So if you want to be part of the "riteous clique" you'll pony up. I have not noticed this amongst Catholics. But I've heard some stories from Evangelicals. I've also encountered them at work.

I will offer this. The Catholic Church we attended used to print envelopes with your names on it. This was for your convenience. My father who had 6 kids and busted his hump working on their school could not afford to give alot. The drunk, child molesting reverend decided to confront my father on the size of his contribution and literally threw it back in his face. My elder brothers and sisters immediately got placed in public school.

Yeah, stuff like that can happen. But if you and your fellow parishioners stick to the white envelope, there should be no problems.

Actually, I really like what the Boston groups are doing. They supplanting the church's collection plate and forcing the Bishops to consult the laity. People have had about enough of these buggering priests.

[earth mom]

46. How long can you go to a church before FOR FREE before they start asking you to tithe?

Even it you manage to dodge the tithing it's difficult to dodge the collection plate on Sunday morning with everyone staring at you if you don't drop in a few bucks.

That's the truth, whether YOU like it or not.

[Yukari Yakumo]

28. And it isn't considered mandatory, unlike Co$. {nt}

uguu

[avenger64]

44. No, they just excommunicate them ...

... this is just blowing smoke. Scientology is a nutty faith, but it's hardly as aggressive or destructive as evangelical Christianity, Islam, or Zionism.

[BearSquirrel2]

8. 2 reasons ...

a) Catholicism is "free". You may donate as much as you please. You can even drop a sealed envelope into the basket. No one will know.
b) If you leave the Catholic church, you won't be harassed and blacklisted. As an ex-Catholic I am occasionally invited to come back (sometimes surreptitiously) but I'm not on any blacklists. I am free to mingle with other Catholics. The priests don't pull people aside and say "Don't talk to BearSquirrel until he returns to the flock." If you want to get married in the church, you can "convert" quickly and they'll just forget about you if you never bother showing up again (though they'll NEVER take you off their membership list, I haven't been in church for 10 years and I'm 100% sure I'm still on it).

In the past Catholicism has behaved much the way we think BAD CULTS like: Scientology, Garbage Eaters, Jehova Witnesses, Mormonism, Branch Dividians, etc... do. They don't anymore. They've been that path and know what it's like. Besides, it's probably the single largest religious organization in the world. So they really aren't wanting for members.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. By your own words...

"Scientology, Garbage Eaters, Jehova Witnesses, Mormonism, Branch Dividians" - a cult is a religion you don't happen to like. At least I am an equal opportunity religion despiser :-)

Yes the RCC currently doesn't have you executed for straying too far from the path, so I guess that makes them officially not a cult now, but very much a cult a few hundred years ago.

[Redstone]

20. OK, I think we get it that you don't like the Catholic church.

Redstone

[Warren Stupidity]

21. Uh -no, I dislike most religious institutions.

I merely picked on the RCC as an example. I did not, as upthread, lump Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses in with 'Garbage Eaters'. The RCC, as our oldest religious institution, is a good case for examining the spurious use of 'cult' as a pejorative for 'religions we don't like'. The qualities that people claim qualify a religion for the cult label have all been present at one time or another in the church's long history.

So no, you don't get it.

[BearSquirrel2]

30. I think you're right about one thing ...

I think you're right in that most of society tends to label "new religions" as cults. I do not.

I think there are patterns of behaviors linked to there recruitment and retention methods that make them cults. I certainly believe that ANY religion that does not give you the full "membership manual" on day ONE is 100% a cult. There are also some martial arts that are cults and instructors who act like cult leaders. For example George Dillman, who preaches that he can strike others without touching using his "Chi Power". Likewise, there are academic areas that are quite cultlike. For example ... everything that comes out of the University of Chicago's economics department.

[Alexander]

29. I think a "cult" is a religion that doesn't allow its followers to leave.

Hence, RCC isn't a cult, because you can stop going to church any time.

Scientology uses all manner of trickery to keep its adherents from leaving, like Jim Jones did. Hence I'd call that a "cult".

Do you accept that as a valid definition?

[Danger Mouse]

35. educate yourself. Scientology is a vile extortion operation disguised as a religion.

http://www.xenu.net

plenty of well-documented evidence of the myriad crimes of the 'church' of scientology and the truth about their 'founder,' L. Ron Hubbard.

Also, how many Scientologists do you think are on DU?
I would put money on there not being a single one.

[Warren Stupidity]

49. Oh so since there aren't any scientologists here its ok

to insult their religion and pretend that it is far far worse than the other more populare cults here , many of which are essentially indistinguishable from 'vile extortion operation(s) disguised as religion(s)'. I don't quite understand how the number of scientologists in the DU community has anything to do with the issue of how to determine the validity of a religion. I can't determine the validity of religions. Almost all of the ones I am familiar with are complete bullshit. I am astounded at the venom demonstrated here, the arrogant and self righteous condemnation being displayed, the confident assertions made that this religion over there is vile nonsense, and the equally indignant defense of other religions as entirely different when in fact they are all at best barely distinguishable from the 'vile' characteristics attributed to the scourge of scientology. You all need to step back a gather some perspective. Religion in general is vile bullshit used to extort money from people scared of dying. There are exceptions, but not very many.

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

3. evil group

i live about 2 miles from their LA headquarters. It is really sad to see the mindless drones shuffling in and out.

[Dr.Phool]

12. Same thing at their Clearwater headquarters.

Zombies all dressed alike, wandering around.

[CreekDog]

16. Scientology responds: see all 2.8 million of you in court

:hi:

[knight_of_the_star]

48. That will be funny

Assuming they can find all of us.

[Initech]

24. Scientology is a cult, there is no debating that one.

Unfortunately, they are a cult with tons of money, lots of lawyers, and celebrity status. And that makes them dangerous.

[iamthebandfanman]

39. all religions started as cults. n/t

[Danger Mouse]

31. Scientology is a money-bilking shame designed to exploit people and hurt them.

They murdered Lisa McPherson.

[Forkboy]

32. Are they Obama supporters?

If not, who cares about cults? Seen God lately? I have! And she was not a happy deity!

;)

[Rosemary2205]

33. Did any of the protesters managed to get arrested?

Scientology sucks the big one - but from the looks of the bunch protesting here in Atlanta - looks like the same bunch that showed up at the G8 in Georgia - and I know how proud those folks are when they manage to push "the pigs" to the point they get arrested, or even better maimed with rubber bullets.

[Pavulon]

34. Want Proof. I could post content here

that the moderators would be forced to take down due to copyright issues.

They are a alien cult. They were run by a tax cheat, drug addicted moron. His wife was jailed for scamming the government.

They are not recognized by europe as a religion.

They are dangerous.

[Danger Mouse]

36. i simply provide this handy link:

http://www.xenu.net
it's all here.

[BearSquirrel2]

38. Yes it is ...

Something about evil monkey intergalactic overlords. Hubbard was a very creative man.

[Pavulon]

41. Love these craxy bastards..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9jqD_8IQpM

[avenger64]

45. Dangerous to who?

n/t

[iamthebandfanman]

40. bleh

sucks people dont believe in freedom of religion.
i dont care what the stupid bastards think, so long as they dont preach it to me.
all religions start out as a 'cult'
before the 90s im pretty sure wicca was considered a cult, now its a recognised religion.
does that mean wicca was evil before it became an 'official' religion?

calling something a 'cult' doesnt make it evil.

[Danger Mouse]

42. educate yourself about scientology.

they are vindictive people who victimize their own adherents and go after their enemies with vicious passion:
http://www.xenu.net

[iamthebandfanman]

43. and that makes them different

than other religions ?

[knight_of_the_star]

47. I do believe in freedom of religion

I DON'T believe in people being forced to pay $385,000 or followers being completely cut off from anyone not in the Church to make them dependent on Scientology or the Fair Game Policy.

Educate yourself on the matter before putting your foot in your mouth, Scientology is NOT a religion, it is a ruthless pyramid scheme disguised as a religion.