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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 09:43 AM
Original message
FISA 101
Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 09:43 AM by WilliamPitt
FISA 101
Glenn Greenwald
Salon.com

Thursday February 14, 2008

Because I had the flu yesterday and today, I have been subjected to far more television news than, under ordinary circumstances, I am able to bear. It never ceases to amaze how deeply confused and/or deeply dishonest reporters are about the topics they are assigned to cover.

FISA was not enacted in 1842. If we are "forced" to live under that law for a few weeks or even longer, we are not "going dark." We are not "more vulnerable" to the Terrorists Who Want to Kill Us. Even under FISA, the Government is fully able to eavesdrop on all of the Terrorists and suspected Terrorists their hearts desire.

FISA was enacted in 1978 and updated multiple times since then to accommodate all the modern technologies Terrorists use, including cell phones and computers. It was even amended in October, 2001, when a Congress that was even more compliant than it is now gave the President every change he wanted to that law.

No need to take my word for it. Here is what the Leader himself said about FISA -- the law he is now attempting (with a drooling, eager assist from our press corps) to depict as some dangerous relic from the obsolete era of telegraphs -- once it was amended in October, 2001 by the Congress, during the ceremony where he signed those amendments into law:

The changes, effective today, will help counter a threat like no other our Nation has ever faced. . . .

We're dealing with terrorists who operate by highly sophisticated methods and technologies, some of which were not even available when our existing laws were written. The bill before me takes account of the new realities and dangers posed by modern terrorists. It will help law enforcement to identify, to dismantle, to disrupt, and to punish terrorists before they strike. . . .

Surveillance of communications is another essential tool to pursue and stop terrorists. The existing law was written in the era of rotary telephones. This new law I sign today will allow surveillance of all communications used by terrorists, including e-mails, the Internet, and cell phones. As of today, we'll be able to better meet the technological challenges posed by this proliferation of communications technology. . .


In his radio address the following week, this is the lavish praise the Commander-in-Chief heaped on the newly amended FISA law:

The bill I signed yesterday gives intelligence and law enforcement officials additional tools they need to hunt and capture and punish terrorists. Our enemies operate by highly sophisticated methods and technologies, using the latest means of communication and the new weapon of bioterrorism.

When earlier laws were written, some of these methods did not even exist. The new law recognizes the realities and dangers posed by the modern terrorist. It will help us to prosecute terrorist organizations -- and also to detect them before they strike. . . .

Surveillance of communications is another essential method of law enforcement. But for a long time, we have been working under laws written in the era of rotary telephones. Under the new law, officials may conduct court-ordered surveillance of all modern forms of communication used by terrorists.


Every President until George Bush was able to defend the nation by engaging in surveillance under FISA. That even includes the Great and Powerful Warrior Ronald Reagan, who vanquished the incomparably nefarious Soviet Union while adhering to FISA. It was only George Bush who claimed that we would All Die unless FISA was modernized, and it was modernized -- repeatedly, to his satisfaction and at his direction.

FISA and the Protect America Act both equally allow eavesdropping on the Terrorists Who Want to Kill Us. The material difference is that FISA requires warrants for eavesdropping on Americans (after the fact, if necessary) while the Protect America Act allows the President to eavesdrop on any Americans without having any oversight at all. The difference does not relate to the ability to eavesdrop on the Terrorists but on the nature and level of oversight from that eavsdropping. Moreover, the FISA Court is and always has been a rubber-stamping tribunal that does not ever block any surveillance on any suspected Terrorists.

Thus, we're not all going to die under FISA. We're not "going dark." FISA is a modern law that was re-written at George Bush's direction and which he himself said allowed for full surveillance on all of the evil Terrorists and all of their complex, super-modern means of communications. None of this has anything to do with the Government's ability to listen in When Osama Calls. It is only about whether the nation's largest telecoms will have pending lawsuits, brought by their customers for breaking the law, dismissed by Congress. Is that really so hard to understand and explain?

More: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/02/14/fisa_101/index.html

==========

Jihadis throw a wild bash over the Protect America Act
Glenn Greenwald
Salon.com

Friday February 15, 2008

What can one even say about this quote, included in Carl Hulse's NYT article on the Democrats' refusal yesterday to pass the Senate's FISA bill before expiration of the Protect America Act:

"I think there is probably joy throughout the terrorist cells throughout the world that the United States Congress did not do its duty today," said Representative Ted Poe, Republican of Texas.
This is the kind of pure, unadulterated idiocy -- childish, cartoonish and creepy -- that Democrats for years have been allowing to bully them into submission, govern our country, and dismantle our Constitution. Outside of Andy McCarthy, Mark Steyn and their roving band of paranoid right-wing bloggers who can't sleep at night because they think (and hope) that there are dark, primitive "jihadi" super-villains hiding under their beds -- along with the Very Serious pundit class which proves their Seriousness by placing blind faith in the fear-mongering pronouncements and demands of our military and intelligence officials for more unchecked power -- nobody cares about adolescent Terrorist game-playing like this any longer. In the real world, it doesn't work, and it hasn't worked for some time.

Americans are worried and even angry about many things. Whether Osama bin Laden is throwing a party because AT&T and Verizon might have to defend themselves in court isn't one of them. Outside of National Review, K Street, and the fear-paralyzed imagination of our shrinking faux-warrior class, there is no constituency in America demanding warrantless eavesdropping or amnesty for lawbreaking telecoms.

On one level, it's difficult to maintain any sustained optimism about the House's defiance yesterday. They were acting far more out of resentment over the procedural treatment to which they were subjected by the White House and, more so, the Senate -- having a bill dropped in their lap again just a couple of days before a deadline and told that they had to pass it, as is, and immediately -- than out of any principled objection to warrantless eavesdropping or telecom amnesty.

And it's painfully easy to envision more than enough "Blue Dogs" eventually joining their GOP colleagues to pass the Senate bill, thus handing the White House yet another complete victory, even if it comes a little later than it was demanded. In light of the endless series of events over the last twelve months, the hope that some sort of actual conviction will cause this obstructionism to be permanent is far too naive for any rational person to entertain seriously.

Still, basic human nature -- if nothing else -- dictates that having finally liberated themselves, however fleetingly, from the truly moronic rule of the Ted "Osama-is-Celebrating" Poes of the world, and having seen that -- as McJoan put it -- "the Democrats stood up to Bush, and the world didn't end," Democrats will crave more of the sweet taste of dignity and autonomy.

(snip)

If Democrats describe what Bush is doing clearly, simply and honestly, then reporters will write it down and read it. It's what they do. Even reporters can understand that when Bush says: "Give me all the new warrantless eavesdropping powers I want and give AT&T protection from lawsuits, otherwise we'll be hit way worse than 9/11," that is pitiful fear-mongering of the type authoritarian politicians always invoke to obtain more unchecked power. Just make that case -- as Democrats did yesterday -- and it will prevail.

More: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/02/15/poe/index.html
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Kashka-Kat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. FINALLY someone cuts through the crap - needs to be reprinted far & wide

KEY PARAGRAPH

FISA and the Protect America Act both equally allow eavesdropping on the Terrorists Who Want to Kill Us. The material difference is that FISA requires warrants for eavesdropping on Americans (after the fact, if necessary) while the Protect America Act allows the President to eavesdrop on any Americans without having any oversight at all. The difference does not relate to the ability to eavesdrop on the Terrorists but on the nature and level of oversight from that eavsdropping. Moreover, the FISA Court is and always has been a rubber-stamping tribunal that does not ever block any surveillance on any suspected Terrorists.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yep - that is the key bit!
I am tired of people acting like we aren't allowed to spy unless we pass this law.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Yup! This government is allowed to "spy". This executive wants MORE!
I doubt the reasons are 'righteous' or have anything to do with protecting US.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. But Will, the reporters didn't write down what the Democrats did nor said yesterday. I listened to
whats-his-name Gibson on ABC News last night. There was less than 10 seconds of Nancy's 'rebuttal' to the idiot GOPers who were given about 3 minutes of time. The whole story was about the Republican 'protest' of the Democrats failure to pass that POS bill, not a mention of the contempt vote.

Most people in America who don't keep C-Span on their TVs, have no idea of what's happening...the executive power grabs, the muddying of our Constitutional rights, the OUTRIGHT lies that are spewed daily, etc.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. I've witnessed both C-SPAN and CBN say "FISA expires" erroneously. + Hubris in Oxymoranics Award
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 01:42 PM by L. Coyote
Other media repeated this error. This fear-monger talking point memo'ed out to diverse media, it seems!

But, the winner of the Hubris in Oxymoranics Award goes to Rep. John Boehner, for leading all the Rs away from having to vote in suport for Bush by sham walkout, and then praising telecom immunity for illegal conduct as the "Good Samaritan LAW." Just call John "Alice."

:rofl: Up is Down is rarely this antipodal! :rofl: Telecom immunity is the "Good Samaritan Law." :rofl:

They certainly lost most of their cameleon properties recently. So transparent too!
Lying in packs does that, especially by combining the verbal lies and the sham walkout lie!

MORE: I FIRMLY oppose the "Good Samaritan Law" and call "BULLSHIT" on the Republican FISA LIES!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2870336
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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
4. Kick for later reading
Thanks
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. .
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. K&R thanks n/t
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
7. There seems to be a direct correlation of the Modus Operandi
between the Bush maladministration and the Saudis.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2869976

“SAUDI ARABIA: Do What We Say - Or We Will "Make It Easier For Terrorists To Attack" (no shit!)”

<snip>

“Saudi Arabia's rulers threatened to make it easier for terrorists to attack London unless corruption investigations into their arms deals were halted, according to court documents revealed yesterday.”

Thanks for the thread, WilliamPitt.
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lisainmilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. K&R
Thanks for bringing clarity to the issue.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. but we're all gonna die this weekend, no???
:sarcasm:
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Kashka-Kat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. Minor quibble but....
The FISA 101 article url is under salon.com/opinion.

Opinion??? When much or most of it is unequivocably FACTUAL information about FISA provisions and direct quotation???

Meanwhile, the shameful lazy reportage on network news passes for "factual" and not the propaganda that it really is??? I've been waiting for YEARS to hear someone, anyone, counter Bush's whining with "you CAN already do your warrantless wiretap - as long as YOU GET ONE AFTER THE FACT!!!!!!"
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. I started to listen to the one-minute speeches in the opening hour of the House
yesterday. Hearing the same lie after lie about 'can't protect because ....." was painful. It is an insult to their lemmings and hard working people who can't keep up with the crimes. Who was it who said recently that every crime has at its source - theft.
House Representatives steal truth repeating the same lie endlessly that ignores the truth of the 72 hour post-eavesdrop permission. The partner corporate media mouths steal by presenting one side only. We are theft crime victims - because the aim to to allow the AT&T's more money. Not paying for crime is a theft. Listening, diverting, storing our private communications is a theft of simple privacy and our rights to privacy.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. You are so right! The fact that me/we, the American citizens are being victimized is what,...
,...drives me as, well, an advocate-at-heart!

There is nothing more obnoxious to me than ANY form of oppression. Just 'cause these manipulative extra-ordinaires seemingly do it (OPPRESS) in an extremely cunning way does not change what they are doing, OPPRESSING PEOPLE for their own personal benefit via power and profit. THAT is NOT "okay".
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. Thank you -- Now, if only our corporate news media, in additon to KO, would do their jobs and
provide this sort of clarification to the American people!
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
13. Honestly? I am so damn sick of dominion-republican BULL! SHIT!
:mad:

They L-I-E! They C-H-E-A-T! They S-T-E-A-L! They commit and cover, cover, COVER-UP UP UP C-R-I-M-E-S!!!

I am sick, sick, sick and damn tired of it!!!!

:mad:
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. OH! And you better believe I am adding a recommendation!!!
AND bookmarking this thread.

:mad:
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
17. Why aren't Hillary and Obama splainin' this?
They've got all the microphones, now. I thought they were going to look out for regular americans?

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Exactly my thoughts as well...
"Why aren't Hillary and Obama splainin' this?
They've got all the microphones, now..."

And in addition why did they not take time during the FISA debate in the Senate to use their influence as one of the Democratic nominees for President???

Do not tell me you will fight in the future when the battle is currently being waged.

:shrug:




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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. .
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
21. Bottom Line
In the eyes of bushco all of us are potential terrorists. Everyone of us, from senators and house members all the way down to you and me.

And since the Telcos have been doing bushco's work of watching all us potential terrorists, they need protection.

Like bushco told us.."..be careful what you say." Can't say they didn't warn us.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
22. William Pitt
please send this to Blitzer. He's been lying out of his teeth.
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