Is there enough support here for a Pro-Second Amendment/Gun Owners group?

[WildEyedLiberal]

Disclaimer: this thread is NOT designed to start an argument, or a flamewar. I am not trying to invalidate or criticize anyone's beliefs. However, with the recent spate of gun-related threads - almost all of which devolve into the same old flamewars - I was wondering if there might be enough support to get an official Pro Second Amendment/Gun Enthusiasts DU Group, where DU gun owners, target shooters, etc could discuss guns in a flamewar-free area, without every thread turning into the same argument ad nauseam.

I am a huge proponent of DU Groups, which give like-minded people a laid-back, relaxed place to discuss their favorite hobby, politician, or issue without having to deal with the free-for-all fights that emerge in GD. I do not think this group should take the place of the gungeon, which would remain an open forum for such gun rights discussions to take place. Rather, it would just be a place for DU's gun owners to gather and talk about their hobby without flames.

I think new groups need 10 supporters to receive admin approval, so perhaps if enough people respond favorably to this thread, Skinner will consider the request. I don't personally own any guns, but my dad has always had a few, and, growing up in the country, I have always had an appreciation for them.

So, if you would post in such a group, please respond here. Again, this isn't a thread designed to start an argument, and there are plenty of other current threads in GD in which you can post if you want to argue the issue either way. Please try to keep this a civil, flame-free thread. Thanks.

[aikoaiko]

1. I would partake.

:)

[The Straight Story]

2. Ya got my vote - hell, bush is in control of a lot of guns and look what he did

I trust my fellow citizen more with guns that our government :)

[TomInTib]

3. Sign me up.

I don't see this as being any different from the Musicians Group, just guns instead of guitars.

[DB1]

4. No opinion. Something scary about a wild eyed liberal with a gun!! N/T

[WildEyedLiberal]

14. lol

:)

[mike_c]

5. aren't there lots of other places to do that....

No snark intended, but it isn't clear to me why a DU forum dedicated to a particular point of view about one issue fills a need that isn't already well met elsewhere.

[MercutioATC]

10. Well, there are plenty of photography sites too.....we have a Photography group...

It's a community thing.

[WildEyedLiberal]

12. Elsewhere on DU, or elsewhere on the internet?

On DU, the only other place to discuss gun rights is the "gungeon," and I don't know if you've ever checked it out, but a haven of civility it ain't. Elsewhere on the internet, most gun forums tend to be disgustingly rightwing - they would certainly not be welcoming of members who are open, proud liberals. Honestly, if DU had a gun group, I think it would probably be one of the only progressive/left pro-gun discussion groups on the net.

[theredpen]

6. Sounds good. (nt)

[EstimatedProphet]

7. Yeah, I could see that

[MercutioATC]

8. I'm in....I'd also like to see a "Preparedness" group....

Whether it be a natural disaster or power outage, a pandemic flu, or the end of the world as we know it, there are simple ways to prepare. I think it'd be a service to the membership to provide a forum where ideas could be shared.

[ChazII]

43. That is a good idea. n/t

[lazer47]

9. yes ,,yes,,, The 2nd Amendment shall not be abridged.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

11. What is wrong with the guns forum?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=118

[WildEyedLiberal]

16. I addressed that in the OP...

The guns forum is open to all - pro, anti, whoever. 90% of its threads turn into flamewars. This would be a place for people who enjoy guns as a hobby to discuss it without really getting into the political debate aspect of it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

20. What would make the anti's stay out of it?

How are you going to stop them?

[WildEyedLiberal]

25. Because groups are specifically designed to be safe havens

From Skinner's "What are DU Groups?" post:

DU Groups are a special type of discussion forum. DU Groups are forum topics suggested by the DU Members themselves. DU Groups are different from regular forums in the following ways:

1. DU Groups are forum topics suggested by groups of DU Members. (To learn how to start your own DU Group, please read the topic called "How to suggest a DU Group.")

2. Each DU Group has a specific mission statement, which has been submitted to and approved by the administrators of Democratic Underground. Administrators reserve the right to withhold approval from any group idea suggested.

3. In order to post in a DU Group, a member must agree with that group's mission statement. Off-topic postings that violate the mission statement of a DU Group are not permitted. Members who disagree with the mission statement of a particular group may be blocked from posting in that group.

[tularetom]

22. A suggestion - if ya want it to be apolitical

for crissakes don't call it the "Pro Second Amendment Gun Owners Forum". Gun Owners Forum should suffice. The 2nd Amendment phrase will bring loonies on both sides into the discussion and you'll be right back where the gun forum is.

[WildEyedLiberal]

26. I'm honestly not sure what to call it

I personally don't own a gun, so obviously I am not a "gun owner," although point taken about the political aspect of "Second Amendment." Perhaps the Gun Enthusiasts Group, something along those lines. Although "enthusiasts" just sounds kind of weird in context.

[MercutioATC]

30. It's for gun LAW discussions, not gun discussions.

The gun discussions are pushed to the "Outdoor Life Group" forum which doesn't cover anything gun-related except hunting.

[Wickerman]

13. Doesn't that cut pretty close to the existent Outdoor Life group?

I do recognize the subtle differences, just wonder if those differences are enough to have three areas to discuss the topic? My two cents.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=271

Welcome to the DU Outdoor Life Group

Edited on Fri Nov-19-04 10:11 AM by Skinner
The purpose of the DU Outdoor Life Group is to discuss and share all aspects of hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, rock climbing, mountain biking, skiing and other outdoor sports.
We understand that hunting provokes a strong emotional response in many people. To those non-hunters honestly interested in why we hunt, we welcome your questions. To those that dislike hunting, please no flaming.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x95935
Personal-interest discussion about guns and weaponry should be posted in the Outdoor Life Group. By "personal interest" I mean, any discussion that is unrelated to public policy, such as: Posting pictures of guns or discussing the leisure activities of hunting or shooting.

[WildEyedLiberal]

18. Perhaps, but not all gun owners are hunters

My dad isn't a hunter, and he has always had a couple of guns. I'm not sure how many DU gun owners are hunters, but I'd guess less than half. If I ever purchased one, it would be for target shooting or personal protection - I have nothing against hunting but I know it is not for me.

So I do think there's an important distinction.

[Wickerman]

23. True

but collecting and target shooting aren't typically deemed foul in OL. Really makes no difference to me, mainly just want folks to be aware of the OL group.

[Paladin]

44. Please Leave The Outdoor Life Group Alone

We already beat back the gun obsessives there, except for actual shooting-related outdoor activities and some relatively calm, non-political discussions of guns.

Please don't make us re-fight that battle.

[Wickerman]

52. Don't worry

I'm not a decision maker. I think you are safe.

[ChazII]

15. Maybe I am missing something but

there is a gun forum here.

Edited to add: Sorry, misread your post. You said "group" and I was thinking in the topic section. Sorry for the error.

[tularetom]

17. I'm in favor of that

The "Guns" forum has degenerated into a lot of paranoia about "gun grabbers" and sounds sometimes almost like an NRA scare ad.

I really don't need to hear bullshit about how the Dems are going to take my guns away, especially on a Democratic Underground forum. Personally i think we all have more to fear from an authoritarian republican administration in the nature of confiscation of firearms but some people have bought into the scary Democrat gun grabbers line.

Yes I would post in such a group. I have occasional questions and sometimes may be able to answer some for others.

[GodlessBiker]

19. A well armed public can fend off tyrannical government. I'd partake.

When government has all of the guns, it's not good.

[spag68]

31. guns to fend off tyrannical government!!!

Your statement is totally foolish. What kind of guns are going to help against backwater's choppers and rockets, or an A-10? Hunting collecting and target shooting are fine with me, but IMHO I worry about those that think they can defend against the "government".

[bean fidhleir]

46. I believe it's generally accepted all over the world that infantry is

indispensable in a conflict. Vietnam was lost by the French in large part because their generals still thought they were doing trench warfare (see The Ugly American), and by the US because we relied on airpower in an attempt to hold down US casualties.

I believe the value of government choppers, rockets, and A10s vs people armed with infantry weapons is also being demonstrated right now in 2 different places. Is there any doubt about who's losing?

[Agony]

21. What is wrong with the (already existing) Guns forum, or

are you thinking of something more along the lines of a "Well Ordered Militia" forum? (that could segue into a national draft for the standing army so that the militia is well ordered forum)

Edit: In just looking at the Gun forum there are 3 posts on the first page with "2nd Amendment" in the post title and I am sure that there are other posts on that page that refer to 2nd A. issues. I go to the Gun forum periodically to read opinion about the 2nd amendment. Why would we want to add another forum for that same purpose? It would just dilute the discussion and make it more difficult to follow the issue.

[AlinPA]

24. Talk about guns in the Guns forum. That's what it's for. Argue or agree on guns, whatever.

[benEzra]

40. Gun discussions aren't allowed in Guns, only gun policy discussions...

gun discussions, like this one and this one, are currently posted in Outdoor Life, which isn't the best fit.

There is a proposal to create a Hunters and Gun Enthusiasts group here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=271&topic_id=1397&mesg_id=1397

[doc03]

27. Count me in. n/t

[AndyTiedye]

28. The Gungeon isn't Pro-Gun Enough?

:eyes:

[Critters2]

29. There should also be a gun control group.

A lot of us Dems think it's time to stop gun violence. We should have a place to discuss this.

[krispos42]

34. That's what the Gungeon is for.

Gun politics, both pro and con, and the discussion of self-defense policy.

[WildEyedLiberal]

37. If you can find people to help support one, sure

The group I have in mind wouldn't discuss gun politics either way, but would rather be a place for gun owners to discuss their hobby. The gungeon probably serves its purpose for political gun rights discussions. That said, if you want an "end gun violence" group, start a thread and petition Skinner.

[Yavapai]

32. Heck yes! include me in

[hiaasenrocks]

33. I'll support you in the effort to start the group.

[Arctic Dave]

35. Sure

I have owned several guns thruogh-out my life but I do not hunt. I like to target shoot because its another reason to get me off the couch and outdoors. I have no political reasons for or against gun ownwership it is simply up to the individual.

[WildEyedLiberal]

36. Just to clarify:

This group would not be about discussing gun politics. It would be a hobby group. I think the gungeon serves its purpose as a place to discuss gun policy. This would be an apolitical group, and of course no advocacy against Democrats would be allowed.

Edit: Sorry Arctic Dave, meant to reply to the OP, not you.

[the other one]

38. We talkin' ASSAULT RIFLES? HELL YES!

NOT!

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Hmmm...Militia with a CAPITAL A...
The word gun never mentioned...

How about an assault rifle group?
Or a shoulder fired missile group?
I've got it! A molotov cocktail group! They are arms too!

[benEzra]

41. Assault rifles, missiles, and molotov coctails are all a 10-year felony to possess

outside of police/military/government duty, unless you first obtain a BATFE Form 4.

Non-automatic civilian guns dubbed "assault weapons", though, are the most popular civilian target rifles and defensive carbines in America, and more people own them than hunt.

[formercia]

39. No groups for me

I tried joining local gun clubs and found them to be NRA or the Highway organizations that reeked of right-wing paranoia.

To me, gun ownership is like religion, something best kept private.

There are plenty of sites on the net where one can lurk for free.

A group is just a place where gun owners can be singled out for further scrutiny.

My advice to Progressive minded gun owners is to keep a low profile.

[BlueCollar]

42. I support the idea

Keep the politics out and just discuss firearms in general? Works for me...

[Paladin]

45. There's Been Some Consideration Of Re-Doing DU Gun Sites....

....for some time, now. You ought to check in with the moderators and acquaint yourself with what's going on with that.

Frankly, as a gun control supporter, nothing would please me more than to have the DU gun rights contingent split up and marginalized as much as possible.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

47. Didn't this get discussed in the Outdoor Life forum?

I'd like such a group, but ...

The OP suggests that fights would not happen. In a DU group. This I gotta see!
:rofl:

[Paladin]

48. Ad Nauseum. And It Wasn't Pretty (n/t)

[mvccd1000]

49. I'd support it, although I rarely venture into groups. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. You already goofed

You are supposed to email Skinner FIRST, before you post the thread asking for the forum.

[eallen]

51. Here.

:hippie:

[lisainmilo]

53. I believe in 2nd amendment rights.

I think it is a great idea. We live in the country and it is necessary to have at least a 22. My dad is an avid black powder gun collector. I don't know how often I would post, but I think 2nd amendment rights are important. :)

[1620rock]

54. There are rural areas in this country where the local inbreds are

scarier than any inner-city thugs...just something to think about when pondering gun ownership.

[RamboLiberal]

55. Count me in - n/t