"It's not our fault! It's not our fault!"

[Hydra]

As I've taken a bit of a DU break for the last few days, I find some of the sharp edges I usually ignore are glaring at me again.

On the other hand, someone sent me a heart! Thank you!!!!

Regardless, I find something glaring at me, and I feel the need to throw it out for the benefit of whoever needs to see it in broad daylight.

As I've written before, we've been walking the long road to hell for a very long time now. This is something that may very well have it's roots in events as old as Shays' rebellion.

Seen from that perspective, a dictatorship such as we have now was inevitable. "The Great Experiment" failed in almost it's first moments, and only the people like Shays' group understood that at the time.

I've seen people often say that "It's not the fault of ____" here. That is patently untrue.

All of us are at fault.

Let me say that again.

ALL OF US ARE AT FAULT.

Some of us are benefiting from the dictatorship. Some of us THINK we are benefiting from the dictatorship. Some of us think that there is no dictatorship. Some of us are afraid of the alternatives to the dictatorship. Some of us are afraid to speak. Some of us are afraid to act. Some of us don't know what to do about it. Some of us are living on "hope" or "faith." Still others are simply fighting to live, and will die under Bushco's boot.

It's all our fault for allowing it to continue.

Some of us have even attacked the people who are trying to do something to undermine the dictatorship.

We are not only at fault, we are helping it occur.

Don't tell me it's not your fault. If you are contributing anything, including your silence, to the dictatorship, you are VERY MUCH at fault.

Consider that fact as our "masters" crush the lives of people around the world for their personal gain.

[blm]

1. O'Donoghue's SPIN column "It's Not My Fault!"

Taken from the movie Head Office, a silly, little known movie that actually makes a lot more sense now given what we know now about BushInc and companies like Enron and GE.

Rick Moranis' character picks up his phone ringing on every line and one after another yells into the receiver, "It's not my fault."

"It's not my fault."

"It's not my fault."

"It's not my fault."

[Hydra]

5. I vaguely remember that!

:D

I'll have to see if my library has it.

[tom_paine]

2. Oh, there's quite a contingent of 1930s Germans here at DU

though it pales, percentage-wise compared to the overwhelming numbers of Good Germans in the overall populace.

They will come here and tell you it's anyone's fault but there's (but ours), sometimes with a superior sneer. They disagree, you see.

Yes, we share the same stigma of the 60-50 BC Romans, and the 1930s Germans, that we are all to blame for the monstrous evil that has taken us over and shows no signs of ever letting us go again, even IF Clinton or Obama should be allowed to assume the Imperial Throne (unlikely).

They represent a breather between Evil Bushies, at the very best.

[Hydra]

4. Good morning, Tom!

I wasn't just addressing this to the good germans here- many feel that because they don't morally support Bushco, that they are somehow not involved in their continued bulldozing of the world. The fact that they are still there doing it disproves that assertion. I'm guilty, too.

Problems cannot be solved until identified, however, so now I'm going to try to fix the issue of my involvement.

[tom_paine]

11. If you have any ideas short of emigration or revolution, let me know

Because from where I am sitting (and I can only speak for myself) there would be no way to sever my involvement without resorting to one of these two solutions, neither of which I have a desire to embrace.

[Hydra]

12. There are ways

I agree with you on emigration, because as much as I would like to run(and wish I had the money to do so), there's not place to run to! The US can reach you ANYWHERE!!!

As for the revolution, all that needs to happen is for everyone to stop using or accepting dollars. A tall order, but that's all they are running on right now- printed paper and our soldier children.

If they couldn't use their printed paper, their power would be next to nothing.

[Greyhound]

18. Hey, it's been too long. Hope you are good.

I wish I had something positive to add, but like you, I see no way out except those you mentioned. The idea that simply electing the overseers from the other team is going to fix this mess is laughable at best. Meanwhile, it is good to read you again.

See you at the barricades.
:hi::patriot::hi:

[tom_paine]

21. Thanks for the kind words. The situation is such that I have been cutting back at DU.

With our choices between Obama and Clinton, I halfway feel that if the Bushies aren't actually running our Party through surrogates (this probably isn't the case, but many years in Corporate Amerika teach me there are more subtle ways to achieve the same goal instead of an overt controlling hand) then they are controlling it through fear, media, and money.

I hate to say it and I will probably get flamed for it (I don't give a shit), an African-American and a woman running against them is the only way the Bushies can make it close enough to steal.

Surprise, surprise, miracle of miracles, as it is almost 100% of the time, our Democratic Party is doing EXACTLY what the Bushies want.

Well, I have seen this script to many times before. Ties go to the Bushies. Hell, 3% victories by the Democrats probably go to the Bushies.

They will NEVER be prosecuted, never held to account, not even in the puny way Bushie Pinochet was mildly "punished".

Finally, what we have seen is a basic breakdown in American Values from the Bushies (or perhaps a return to the pre-1960s days, shall we say). Bushies who are voter caging, stacking machines, and purging voter rolls of minority Democratic voters, among the many of the thousand cuts they have used to destroy the American electoral system (not to mention electronic shenanigans, which for the purposes of this discussion we'll call "unproven" and assume it doesn't exist :rofl: ), they do so because they have been convinced they are fighting evil, and thus are willing to excuse their own criminality for the "greater good".

These Bushie Footsoldiers, just HOW motivated, just HOW much of their own voter-disenfranchisement will they be willing to carry out without conscience to prevent the "greater evil" (as they see it) not just a Democratic Emeperor but an African-American or a woman Democratic Emperor?

I would say that previous levels of Bushie criminality, McCain or no McCain, will be in overdrive and off the charts to prevent such a thing.

And the Bushies won't even have to LIKE McCain, because keeping the throne out of the hands of an African-American or a woman will be sufficient motivation at least 2X more powerful than what they did to Gore and Kerry.

And, as we can see, the Official Democratic Party position on Bushie Election Fraud is the same as their reaction to the Bushification of our Executive Branch intro a pale copy of what Hitler and Stalin did to their executive branches. (except they don't even have the balls to have sham hearings or phony subpeonas that will be laughed at, on the Bushie Electuon Fraud issue)

That, of course, is...nothing. No position at all. Nothing to see here. Move along.

As a result of these feelings, I'd rather not drag other people's morale down. Thus, I am trying to cut back dramatically. I was doing OK until today. Oh well, back on the wagon.

[Hydra]

22. In 2004, the victory margin may have been as high as 25%

My suggestion is to get a new flamesuit. If you and I and ever other cage rattler here on DU don't say what needs to be said, then DU will turn into a nothing more than a cheerleading camp.

"Fortune favors the bold!"

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Of course,

because we are all interconnected, and what actions we start effect the whole, sooner or later. That being said, what do we do? I am a pacifist, and will not use violence to try and change things. Besides, violence breeds more violence, doesn't get us to peace. To my mind, the thing to do is to concentrate upon establishing peace within one's own heart first, and then to reach out to others in peace and understanding.

Do you see it another way? What would you have us do?

[Hydra]

6. Whatever you can

You don't have to fight to help those who fight. The underground railroad is a perfect example.

You cannot make the rest of us put down arms, however. When someone else is killing other people, the defensive principle must apply:

"You need them to not do something: in some cases, what you need them to do is 'not live'"

Bushco is built on our acquiescence. Our labor, our support, our families for their soldiers...Without that, they'd be a bunch of whiny old men, probably locked up for pederasty or something similar.

We need you to help us and hurt them. I hurt Bushco by teaching people the truth about money and by debunking the other lies they are being fed. As Stalin said:

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"

As for peace, most of the world is ready for peace. Care to hear what Hermann Goring had to say about that?

Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

Do you want real peace? It's closer than you think...but there are a LARGE number of people who profit from war. What do you think we should do about them, hmm?

[mdmc]

8. I don't know what we should do about them, but something needs to be done

Do have a link for that Goring interview? I've but seen it here before but would like to read it in its entirety.

And I would like to add -
It is obvious that someone has to do something. I just find it fucking pathetic that it is us that have to do it. Jerry Garcia said something like this back in the day.

[Hydra]

9. I got it off Wikiquote

Usually, I can't bear to read the Nuremberg stuff- I always got the feeling it was a show trial, and the years have proven it so. Perhaps it would be worth reading to understand what really happened in Germany...and now here.

Jerry was right...but on the other hand, this has always been "our gov't" in theory. If we won't do what's necessary to fix it, then who's fault is it when it breaks?

---------------------
edit to add:

Here is the link I used.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_G%C3%B6ring

[mdmc]

23. thanks for the link

:kick:

[mdmc]

7. It is my fault

And I need to work on a solution.:toast: R

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

10. All that has been done, has been done in our name, "We, the people" of this country.

I see myself, my own complacency and self involvement, during Carter's, Reagan's, Bush I's, and Clinton's tenures, and the coup in 2000.

I was a good little citizen and voted in every election and then went on about my life, not really noticing what was happening. I thought voting was all that was required of me.

In reading "The Shock Doctrine" I'm appalled at the events that were occurring in the rest of the world, during my late teens and early twenties, upon which I never really focused.

If more of us had spoken up then, things might been different.

:kick:

[Hydra]

14. Guilty as charged as well

Reading some of the stuff the CIA was doing around the world was a very enlightening experience, and quite pukeworthy. I suddenly understood why I was getting so much flak for being a lefty in the American Empire.

I wasn't "with the program," am still not, and probably never will be. But I had been a passive supporter of "The Land of Liberty." Under the myth I found a cesspool...but in that fact lies a chance to do something better.

[End Of The Road]

13. DO? Do what?

I'm at a loss.

I vote. It doesn't count.

I write my reps/senators. I don't even get the courtesy of a reply.

I try to inform those less informed on topics that I've thoroughly researched. I'm labeled and laughed at.

I could go on...

I'm ready to "do" something - anybody got a plan?

I'll recommend one: turn off your TV. Don't support the propaganda. But doing so won't fix the problems, either.

[Hydra]

15. I'm glad to see someone fighting the good fight!

So you've tried the acceptable methods...you even ventured into the slightly unsafe ones("subverting people" can get you in big trouble). You reached the end of the road, right?

Nope. Now you understand how others are helping Bushco.

I can't tell you how to fight- that's your choice. I'll tell you how I fight, though.

1. I find people who are having problems. It's pretty easy these days. I find out what their problem is, and I hit them with something simple, and not arguable. Here's an example:

"I haven't gotten a raise in 4 years! I work so much harder than before, but it's harder to make ends meet now!"

"Did you know that the president of the company got a $1 million bonus last year for cutting labor costs(true story)?"

Once you get a person upset, they stop laughing at you. They may not believe you, but if you tell them where to find the evidence, the seed is planted. Mind you, the good germans of the world don't want to hear it...but that's how it is.

Did you know that a revolution is often started by less than 10% of the population? Puts a new spin on why they spend so much time marginalizing us, doesn't it?

[cloudythescribbler]

16. 1st, even if "all of us" are somehow at fault, there are differences of degree, AND ...

of course, the great bulk of the blame is palmed off by those who really are THE MOST to blame on to their critics and opponents, who really are no more to blame than anyone else.

But that's where the gravy and the kudos etc are.

[Hydra]

17. Actually,

The most to blame simply don't care. Look at Bush- sleeps like a baby at night after having a photo op with people who's limbs were blown off because of him.

I'm talking to the people with enough of a conscience to still care that we are wrecking the world, but who are safe in the illusion that "It's not my fault!"

Degree of difference is of no importance. The people who voted for the IWR, the people who were in the army, the monkey in the white house, the media who sold us propaganda, the people who built the bombs, the people who paid their taxes...

All of them made it possible.

[shadowknows69]

19. Completely off topic but I just had to say

that most of the people talking in this thread are among the Duers I respect most. K+R for speaking the sad truths Hydra.

[Hydra]

20. Thanks!

It gets lonely having to speak these particular truths, but I do what I can to bring the empire down! :evilgrin:

[Demagitator]

24. It is not my fault....

Simply the --coup d’état -- occurred in the early 50s maybe even before, and before I was ever born. The 20th century; should -- actually be described as the apocalyptic age.

If the game is fixed; then why worry about it? The average person could not change it; perhaps by revolution, but that will never happen, because they have most Americans on meds to dull the pain.

Actually -- the best thing to do is to simply ignore them, and not make any effort to change them -- and by ignoring them -- one does not allow them to get any power over you.

[glowing]

25. You are correct... I'm trying my best to do more.. so hard when it seems

like everyone is running around like chickens with their heads cut off.. and damn it... for all the "good" causes everyone is too overly involved with... I think we need to focus on one major issue and hit over and over and over again... If we work on worker rights, serious fair trade agreements.. we free up some of this chicken madness.. May 1st is the international day for workers of the world to unite.. Perhaps if we focus on this issue.. more people would have time to think and work towards a sound goal... If everyone had the money and time to march to Washington, don't you think this war would be over.. If jobs were plentiful, do you think young people would be signing up and re-signing up for this endless blood bath we call Iraq?

[orleans]

26. heyyyy.....the hearts are gone. (sad) n/t