When We Torture: The Dept for Taking Down America's Worldwide Reputation (NYT Kristof)

[Land Shark]

In the event this has been previously posted, it is well worth re-posting because it illustrates how America's moral, ethical, and political leadership of the world are being systematically destroyed by practicing either inhumane treatment as well as by practicing torture (regardless of whatever name any one chooses to call it). And both practices are illegal under international law regardless of whether a treaty's been signed -- even in times of war there are no exceptions for torture and inhumane/degrading treatment....

February 14, 2008 http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/opinion/14kristof.html?th&emc=th

When We Torture

By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

The most famous journalist you may never have heard of is Sami al-Hajj, an Al Jazeera cameraman who is on a hunger strike to protest abuse during more than six years in a Kafkaesque prison system. {…} Mr. Hajj is one of our forgotten prisoners in Guantánamo Bay.

{…}

After Mr. Hajj was arrested in Afghanistan in December 2001, he was beaten, starved, frozen and subjected to anal searches in public to humiliate him, his lawyers say. The U.S. government initially seems to have confused him with another cameraman, and then offered vague accusations that he had been a financial courier and otherwise assisted extremist groups.

{…}

Mr. Hajj began his hunger strike more than a year ago, so twice daily he is strapped down and a tube is wound up his nose and down his throat to his stomach. Sometimes a lubricant is used, and sometimes it isn’t, so his throat and nose have been rubbed raw. Sometimes a tube still bloody from another hunger striker is used, his lawyers say.

{….} He is allowed a Koran, but his glasses were confiscated so he cannot read it. All this is inhumane, but also boneheaded. Guantánamo itself does far more damage to American interests than Mr. Hajj could ever do.

To stand against torture and arbitrary detention is not to be squeamish. It is to be civilized.

much more at http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/opinion/14kristof.html?th&emc=th

a tip of the hat to kpete for posting this on its day of first publication, but it didn't get enough attention then: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2862368

Please k&R for more visibility and read the NYT link, thanks!!

[2 Much Tribulation]

1. For centuries America's had this moral leadership --- why abandon it now? K&R nt

[Land Shark]

2. So true -- Lincoln gave special orders not to mistreat confederate troops, as did Gen. Washington...

[Joe Chi Minh]

10. Rommel was so admired by the Allied troops in North Africa, that

Montgomery had to order them to take down photos of him, many of the soldiers had pinned up.

He would evidently have been admired for his guile as a military leader on the battle-field, and one, like Nelson and Zhukov, who led from the front, but mostly because he insisted his troops treat captured Allied soldiers with respect. Without that, the other reasons would have been a cause for greater resentment, not admiration.

[shraby]

3. Torture is the most heinous thing one person

can do to another. It is so abhorrent to me that I can't even watch a prison movie. In my opinion, anyone involved in torturing another person should receive the full weight of the laws prohibiting the actions.
What is totally puzzling to me is why government personnel can do it and get away with it, but a serial killer or kidnapper who tortured the victim before killing is punished accordingly when caught.
The persons in government employment who tortured others are known for the most part yet are walking free as birds instead of caged like the animals they are.

[2 Much Tribulation]

6. & among most heinous a country can do - the tortured may well be innocent, the torturer never is

[Land Shark]

7. touche' - kudos but do you know who first said that truism? I can't recall nt

[stellanoir]

4. K & R;d

The fact that torture has even entered the national dialogue as a consideration is utterly repulsive to me .

[Land Shark]

5. concisely, succinctly and truthfully put, Stella. Thanks for calling spades spades.... nt

[Joe Chi Minh]

9. I felt the same, Paul. It's bit like reviling concentration camps -

the devil, for that matter, as evil. Where could you start? The evil is monolithic.

The totally unacceptable vileness of deliberate physical turture must be one of the most fundamental of all our ASSUMPTIONS, as human beings, wherever people live on the globe and whatever epoch they lived in.

[2 Much Tribulation]

8. any torture is too much torture, kick.... nt

[L. Coyote]

11. Thanks. K & R>

[mwb970]

12. I hope America can get its soul back.

Once this long, dark night of murderous bush-cheney madness is finally, blessedly at an end, I am hopeful that Americans will come together to erase the stain on our country and its relations with others that has been left by this most vile of administrations.

We will always have the bushbots, the dittoheads, and the mentally ill attempting to destroy America with corporate fascism. But the truth is, these advocates for America's destruction are a small minority, somewhere around 25%, and many of these are simply uninformed and would leave the Dark Side if they ever saw the truth.

With a 75%+ majority working on the cleanup, hopefully we can shovel away all the bush-cheney crap before the rest of the world gives up on us entirely. Let's start by putting a Democrat in the White House.

[Land Shark]

13. Its soul is still there & always will be but we gotta UPHOLD it (think: Oaths of office) nt

[Time for change]

14. Mr. al-Hajj's crime was that he photographed the results of a U.S. massacre in Iraq

There is no greater crime against the Bush administration than that. It calls into question the legitimacy of George Bush's Iraq War. No wonder al-Hajj was repeatedly tortured.

Amy Goodman talks about this in great detail in Static: Government Liars, Media Cheerleaders, and the People Who Fight Back:
http://tour.democracynow.org/

[robinlynne]

15. k&r. History is going to look back on this period as one of the darkest ever,

and those reading the history books are going to ask, "How did the American citizens let that happen?"

[Land Shark]

17. I believe you're quite right about that, robinlynne. thanks for stating the truth. nt

[robinlynne]

18. hiya LandShark!

[alfredo]

16. Will they ever forgive us.

[Land Shark]

19. What's your best guess?

[alfredo]

22. Let me think a bit

No and hell no.

[LynnTheDem]

20. If what we do to others was done to your child, spouse, sibling, parent...

would you forgive?

[alfredo]

21. Hell no.

I'm still pissed for what the Turks did to the Armenians.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

23. No words to express my horror.

:cry:

[Disturbed]

24. "We do not torture." GW Bush.

America only practices "Enhanced" Interrogation. You see, that is not torture.

Methods used at GITMO

1.Prolonged sleep deprivation,
2.Sensory deprivation,
3.Extremely painful "stress positions,"
4.Sensory bombardment (such as prolonged loud noise and/or bright lights),
5.Forced nakedness,
6.Sexual humiliation,
7.Cultural humiliation (such as desecration of holy scriptures),
8.Being subjected to extreme cold that induces hypothermia,
9.Exploitation of phobias,
10.Simulation of the experience of drowning and controlled drowning, i.e., waterboarding.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

25. Torture is tyrannical and an act of terror. What we have become,...is an evil rather than,...

,...beacon in this world.

Well, NOT WE,...only a small segment of our people,...just like the terror-laden criminals all over the world. A small segment allowed to have a massive impact for malignant purposes.