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Why Was the Illinois Shooter Allowed to Buy a Gun?

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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:12 PM
Original message
Why Was the Illinois Shooter Allowed to Buy a Gun?
from AlterNet's PEEK:



Why Was the Illinois Shooter Allowed to Buy a Gun?

Posted by DnA , The Carpetbagger Report at 6:59 AM on February 18, 2008.

Both the Illinois and Virginia Tech killers bought equipment used in their shootings from companies owned by the same online dealer.



Last year, Congress passed a law that was hailed as "the first major gun control legislation in a decade" in response to the Virginia Tech shootings. The legislation was supposed to close the loophole that allowed Seung-Hui Cho, who had been ordered by a judge to undergo outpatient mental health treatment, to buy a gun. The press slipped into a bipartisan rapture over the involvement of the NRA in crafting the legislation:

With the NRA on board, the bill, which fixes flaws in the national gun background check system that allowed the Virginia Tech shooter to buy guns despite his mental health problems, has a good chance of becoming the first major gun control law in more than a decade.

"We'll work with anyone, if you protect the rights of law-abiding people under the second amendment and you target people that shouldn't have guns," NRA chief Wayne LaPierre told CBS News Correspondent Sharyl Atkisson.

"As the Virginia Tech shooting reminded us, there is an urgent national need to improve the background check system" to keep guns out of the hands of those barred from buying them, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said.


But six days before last Thursday's shooting, Stephen Kazmierczak, a former student at Northern Illinois University, walked into a gun shop in Champaign, Ill. and bought two guns he later used to kill six people and then himself in a rampage on NIU's campus. Kazmierczak, like Seung-Hui, had a history of mental illness.

The 27-year-old Kazmierczak also had a history of mental illness and had become erratic in the past two weeks after he stopped taking his medication, said university Police Chief Donald Grady.

A former employee at a Chicago psychiatric treatment center said Kazmierczak had been placed there after high school by his parents. He used to cut himself and had resisted taking his medications, she said.

Kazmierczak spent more than a year at the Thresholds-Mary Hill House in the late 1990s, former house manager Louise Gbadamashi told The Associated Press. His parents placed him there after high school because he had become "unruly" at home, she said.

Gbadamashi couldn't remember any instances of him being violent, she said.

"He never wanted to identify with being mentally ill," she said. "That was part of the problem."


Whether or not Kazmierczak wanted to identify with being mentally ill, the issue seems to be that he didn't have to. Illinois gun laws require prospective gun buyers to apply for a permit, which is more than many states require. But when Kazmierczak filled out his application form, he simply answered "no" to the pertinent questions.

Kazmierczak, 27, held a valid permit, which he recently presented to a Champaign gun dealer to buy the guns used in the rampage, authorities said.

To obtain the permit, he had to answer "no" to this question: "Within the past five years, have you been a patient in any medical facility or part of any medical facility used primarily for the care or treatment of persons for mental illness?"


Hardly a thorough background check. ......(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/77296/




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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. This probably belongs in the Guns Forum, but by his words the NRA guy
is clearly advocating some kind of gun control. ??
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. He had a valid FOID. As far as the gun merchants were concerned, he was A-ok.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. GD ROCKS!
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 03:00 PM by MethuenProgressive
:hi:
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I know the Hatfields v McCoys threads have been restricted at the GD-P cesspool....
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 02:37 PM by marmar
....But can we please keep the pissing contest out of here? The sane among us want no part of it. :eyes:


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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yippee for GD!
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 03:00 PM by MethuenProgressive
:hi:
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. The mods didn't see the need to eliminate them from GD, then limit posters on the topic....
Unlike the Spy vs Spy silliness from the Clinton-Obama supporters war of stupidity. Just sayin'.

:think:


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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Tips for removing coffee stains.
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 03:01 PM by MethuenProgressive
How To Remove Coffee Stains Cleaning tips from professional house ... One of the most common places to find coffee stains is on your counter top. ...
www.mrscleannw.com/tips/coffee-stains-removal.html

:hi:
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yup, you do that.
n/t


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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. to bad that you think obama has anything to do with this by
saying your smart assed comment "present". you post disgusting shit cause you think you are clever.

it`s not funny nor clever where i live...it`s not funny or clever to the people i know who were effected by this tragedy

i had you on ignore for awhile and now i know that was a mistake.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. he has 'rights'
:eyes:
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. simple --after 5 years with no further
"mental health issues" anyone in the state of illinois is entitled to purchase a firearm. the problem is that it takes to long to receive records from the various agencies.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Thank you for that and the post below saying this too.
I guess getting kicked out of the military for psych issues in 2002, it is now 5 yrs later. We need more, much more, accessible, affordable, non-stigmatic mental health care from professionals who can help.
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. The problem is, the law is un-enforcable. It looks good on paper but,,,
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. This looks like a lag-time problem
His doctor didn't report his erratic behavior to the state mental health system promptly enough, or the state mental health system didn't get it into NICS. That needs to be fixed.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. "The coincidence is uncanny. State gun dealer sold to both NIU, Va. Tech gunmen"
by Bill Glauber and Gina Barton (2-15-2008 Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel)
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=718679

Yep, Green Bay firearms dealer Eric Thompson moved his family here from Phoenix, AZ to get away from violence, crime and corruption. How paradoxical that he would sell a gun and accessories to Cho and, after that, accessories to Kazmierczak both of whom used the products to commit mass murder on US college campuses.

Then again, Green Bay is a highly corrupted RW Republican stronghold. I'm sure that a small businessman like Mr. Thompson was as shocked as any other citizen here when we found out last fall that the Chairman and Treasuruer of the Brown County Republican Party, Donald Fleischman had been providing shelter, drugs and alcohol and other support to runaway children from an adjudicated youth residential facility in exchange for sex.

"Green Bay GOP Party Chair Indicted On Child Sex Crimes" (posted by goofticket 10-13-2007 on Uppity Wis.org)
http://www.uppitywis.org/green-bay-gop-party-chair-indicted-on-child-sex-crimes

Despite all that, the charges against Donald Fleischman were dropped after his resignation as Brown County Republican Party Chairman and Treasurer.

"Teen Gay Sex Charges Dropped Against Brown County GOP Ex-Head" by Michael Horne (11-8-2007 Milwaukee World)
http://www.milwaukeeworld.com/blog/2007/11/teen-gay-sex-charges-dropped-against.html

There is a lot of injustice and hypocrisy going on in the BFEE'S HOMELAND (tm) everywhere.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. Access to medical records that don't involve adjudication is difficult ethically.

Its a tough one, but would many people really don't like the idea of facilities, doctors, and psychologists revealing mental issues. We only allow it if there is a clear and explicit danger to self or others. Its generally considered a high standard.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. Here is the main page of the Illinois FOID application


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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Question #5 is just plain retarded.
:eyes:
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