Even MORE annoying than the drug ads.. "Payday Loan" ads.

[SoCalDem]

Seriously, I did not think ANY ads could be more annoying than the pharma ads, with the lovely smiling people cheerfully telling us that we could trade heartburn for lymphoma or kidney failure...but the ad-meisters have done
it.

My town is LOADED with payday loan places.. The ones around here are empty storefronts, with a cheap formica rollaway counter and a couple of Big Lots folding chairs.. Most even have bars on the windows..

NEVER EVER have I seen a bustling, bank-esque Payday Loan place..with plants & drapes & attractive furniture & well dressed smiling people....like the current ads show on tv.

The ones around here are staffed by one forlorn looking person, reading magazines & yakking on a cell phone.

The current ad running, where the lady got an unexpectedly high WATER BILL?? C'mon..a WATER BILL?? Is that what it's come to?

A water bill sends people scrambling to sign up for a 400%+ loan??

My best friend took care of an elderly family friend, and after he died, she found out he had been going to a payday loan place, because they kept calling her..

She told them he had died, and they could go to the cemetery and take it up with him..

They still called her weekly for almost a year.. he owed them $150 dollars..(plus interest of course)

[alarimer]

1. Those ads are definitely deceptive

They do not disclose the astronomical interest rates they charge. And the rest of it is all lies too.

[MercutioATC]

32. Of course they disclose the interest rates...it's the law.

Can you provide ONE example where the loan recipient wasn't told of the fees involved?

...bet ya can't.....

[MercutioATC]

33. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

This isn't the fault of payday loan operations or the government...it's a service that some people CHOOSE to use.

All terms are explained beforehand. If they CHOOSE to use the service, they are responsible to abide by the terms of the agreement. It's that simple.

[alarimer]

36. They are loan sharks, nothing more.

More corporate pieces of shit making money off the backs of poor, desperate people. It is usury, plain and simple and needs to be illegal. The are fucking VULTURES and their defenders make sick. "personal responsibility" my ass!

[MercutioATC]

42. By your definition, so is ANY company that sells a service.

H&R Block wants HOW MUCH to fill out paperwork that you can do yourself?

A mortgage company gets WHAT percent for fees?


We all have the ability to CHOOSE not to use a service if we feel it's too costly. Nobody puts a gun to these people's heads and makes them use these services. The fees are clearly disclosed in writing. They have the option to use the service or not.

What they DON'T have the option to do is whine about being taken advantage of if they can't honor the agreement.

[SoCalDem]

41. Dangle a sandwich in front of a starving man..tell him he can pay you later

will he walk away? will he pay you later?

He needed the food then.."now" is your problem.. he'll get another meal from someone else next time..

Preying on poor people is beneath contempt..and that's all these payday places are..vultures offering money to poor people who cannot realistically ever pay it back.. they need it NOW, so they do what they have to do, and say what they have to say..to get the money..and later? well that's later..

[MercutioATC]

43. So what would happen if these services didn't exist?

...the water would get shut off, the car wouldn't get fixed, the rent wouldn't get paid.

Unless you want to open a competing business offering more moderately-priced loans to people who are the worst credit risks in the country, I don't see what the issue is. The clients of these businesses CHOOSE to accept the terms of the loan rather than endure what they see as a worse consequence. That's their choice to make.

[Mike Daniels]

61. Personal responsibilty isn't a concept recognized by some people on DU

Apparently, people who can't be bothered to factor in the possible ramifications of their actions are the true victims in life vs. irresponsible individuals who need to bear some of the blame.

[Mike Daniels]

60. The ads specifically mention that one should review bank policies re: pay day loans

I would presume that the bank would then be responsible for discussing the rates with the customer.

Sorry, but I think the advert is pretty straightforward that pay-day loans aren't something one should enter into lightly.

[PA Democrat]

2. I Hear you. I love how they encourage people to use payday loans "responsibly"

I would guess that most of the people that go there are desperate. When did loan sharking become legal?

[NMMNG]

3. Those places are vultures and should be illegal

The current ad running, where the lady got an unexpectedly high WATER BILL?? C'mon..a WATER BILL?? Is that what it's come to?

A water bill sends people scrambling to sign up for a 400%+ loan??

For some people that's the case. They live, quite literally, paycheck to paycheck and are always struggling to keep up. No matter how hard they try they cannot manage to save up extra for "a rainy day". Any bill that's not routine (and even some that are) can throw a cog in the machine and necessitate the need to use credit cards, if the person has them, or a trip to the payday loansharks. That's where the real trouble comes in because it starts a cycle they may never recover from.

[SoCalDem]

7. That's my point.. simple things like recurring bills are doing people in

and instead of addressing the WHY... a new "industry" pops up to "offer" a solution :puke:

[NMMNG]

12. The poor will continue to be victimized and demonized in our society

Until we do something about it. Sadly our system is sadly effed up and it doesn't look like we're ready to overhaul it yet. :-(

[alarimer]

37. Yes, Poor people have no "personal responsibility"

That's probably why they are poor, at least according to some.

[MercutioATC]

44. That's a bizarre extrapolation of my post above...and it's not what I said.

What I SAID was that if consumers of any income level make irresponsible financial decisions, they should bear the consequences of their choices.

[NMMNG]

48. Of course

And all rich people have obtained their wealth through hard, honest work. :rofl:

[EFerrari]

15. Except then poor people who have no bank account or even

a bank they can get to would have to eat their check.

These places could be effen' regulated but that would entail somebody in power actually caring.

[NMMNG]

16. Good point

Maybe an interest cap would be a better idea. It's outrageous what they do to people.

As for the people in power caring, they aren't screwed over by these places, so why would they? :-(

[EFerrari]

18. You know something, that would be a great start up --

an ethical check cashing place in poor and low income neighborhoods.

Somebody has to do it. And put these bastards out of business.

[NMMNG]

19. Now that's a great idea

:thumbsup:

[SoCalDem]

39. The business model is a tough one though

The people who have no bank accounts are very often, people who do not work regularly, or if they do have jobs, they are barely making it..or NOT making it,.

Loaning money to them is always a difficult proposition. People who move a lot, or don;t have phones and are marginally employed, are sometimes very difficult to find..if they do not pay up..

and a business like this would have a payroll and rent & utilities to pay for.. They have to get their money somewhere..

An altruistic payday loan-check cashing business would probably go broke in no time..

Banks just need to get back in the game and should be required to offer mini-accounts to anyone who's employed...They should at least be able to get an atm card and the ability to cash their checks without a fee.. (not a checking account/...atm only)

[Arctic Dave]

49. Its kinda like micro loans

I'm reading a book right now called "Banker to the Poor" by Muhmmad Yunnus, the founder of the Grameen Bank. He had basically the same idea about twenty years ago. Loan people money at a reasoable rate give them financial training and actually help them improve their lives. What an absolutely crazy idea.:silly:

[SoCalDem]

50. The biggest difference I see is this..

Yunnus loans to the poorest of the poor, who then start micro businesses that generate income for them. They can use that income to repay the small loans.. These people are dirt poor, but probably NOT in debt to credit cards, utility companies, car loan places..

The poor here, are poor because they have too many bills..not because they have no way to earn money..

A poor lady in India with NOTHING, can get a cow and sell the milk & cheese, and the cow can graze for free on grass.. she can then breed the cow and have TWO cows ..and then buy a few goats.. She can become upwardly mobile and debt free once she repays that small loan..

Here in the US, the loan may pay the electric bill, but there will be another one next month, and the income that's not enough, will still be not enough then..but there will be less, because the payday loan must be repaid..and no extra income is generated..

[Arctic Dave]

53. you are correct with

your assessment. I guess what my true thought was that he attacked the root of the problem of the poor by giving them loans. Not the local "loan sharks" that made them virtual slaves, which I believe these pay advance type of businesses are trying to do to their costumers.

[EFerrari]

58. Yes and no. There are plenty of poor people here too poor

to get car loans or credit cards and who benefit from training and micro loans. There's a program right here in San Francisco that helps women with small start ups that does very well.

I'm making some calls today to the check cashing places downtown to see how much they charge. Because I'm thinking that instead of charging $15 dollars to cash a $150 check (or, whatever it is) you could charge a very small fee with a $10 deposit. So initially, the client might be out of pocket about the same amount in ready cash but they would also be saving a little bit, too, instead of handing it over to vampires.

The lending part I'd have to research. One of my cousins is in banking. I want to bounce this off of her

[Arctic Dave]

64. Cool, give me a shout back when you get the info

:-)

[EFerrari]

65. I will. This is so weird because I've avoided finance my entire life.

But clearly, this needs to be done. :)

[EFerrari]

57. I heard him speak two weeks ago on teevee and googled

one of his essays. He's AMAZING. :)

[Warpy]

4. Since it wasn't her debt

she should have written a formal letter of complaint to her state Attorney General's office. There is usually an Ombudsman for Consumer Affairs in there someplace whose job it is to deal with scumbags like those.

One nasty letter from that office, and scumbags crumple. BTDT.

[SoCalDem]

10. She mostly let them leave messages & then erased them

I guess they finally figured out he had died.. they never call anymore :)

[Warpy]

17. She needs to check her credit report

and make sure they didn't wreck it when they erroneously assigned his debt to her.

[SoCalDem]

20. No.. he just put down her phone number on his application

and she was not related to him..and she signed nothing

[Warpy]

23. She still needs to check

It only takes a minute and it's better safe than sorry.

[EFerrari]

25. Most people don't know that they need to check their credit report

at regular intervals.

All kinds of wrong stuff can land there.

And, that stuff can be straightened out. But, if you don't check, it looks like you don't care and just let it go.

[hulklogan]

5. I worked for a payday loan place for a while when I was in college

It was a horrible job and I wasn't morally comfortable there, but the owner did one thing right - he treated all of the employees better than any other job I've ever worked at or heard about. Our safety and job satisfaction was a top concern at that company, and we were well-paid and taken care of, even better than Starbucks, if you can believe it.

It's too bad a payday loan company can get that part of employee relations right when so many others treat their employees like paper plates. Disposable.

[Rex]

6. Hey now! It's my money and I wanna scream like an insano out the

window at my neighbors! :crazy: Give me my money!

[SoCalDem]

9. Oooh.. That one TOO !!

I always want to scream back..

"Your uncle set up a structured payout because he knew you were a f-up, and would blow it all on pizza & booze"

[Rex]

24. I can see that!

:rofl:

Freak people out - role down your car window and yell, 'I hate the product, but love making commercials!' Then role it back up. Honk while you apply headon.

[PetrusMonsFormicarum]

8. They're not regulated

Here in Oregon, and certain streets are awash in them. These places are predatory loan sharks, capitalism taken to its fascist extreme. They do nothing but promote despair, preying on the procrastinators, the weak, and the weak-minded. They support those with drug habits and are the epitome of our "I'll take care of it later" culture.

It reminds me of video lottery. Here in Oregon, a vendor is required to have a certain percentage of food and beverage sales in order to host video poker machines. It was not the same when South Carolina introduced video poker machines. From the vantage point of my parents' home near the NC/SC border, I saw video poker parlors appear overnight. These money-fleecers were often nothing more than a double-wide trailer with three or four game machines and an ATM, and many were parked just a few feet across the state line. Within one year, property crimes in this small NC town TRIPLED.

[NNN0LHI]

11. "And if you can't pay it when due, you can extend paying it back for no additional charge."

Yea, sure. Sounds like a like a guy I used to know named Vinnie.

Don

[SoCalDem]

13. You take that BACK.. Vinnie had some standards

and family loyalty.. these vultures have none

[Berry Cool]

31. Yeah, and at least if Vinnie breaks your legs when he hears you request an "extension"

they will eventually heal.

Of course, then you'll have the medical bills and...lather, rinse, repeat.

[EFerrari]

14. I gave up programming with ads for Lent about two years ago.

And I've never looked back. :)

[SoCalDem]

21. We use our PVR, and start watching about 20 minutes into a program

and then whizzzz thru the commercials.. That's what we usually do..:)

[EFerrari]

27. I'm teetering on shutting down my DirecTv, using only internet streams

and putting those 60 bucks to work somewhere else. That's more than $700 a year.

The satellite is really easy and the small screen can be really annoying but, it's not like I've never been annoyed before.

Don't know yet -- I've been waffling for months now. But I do know I don't need to pay to watch those ads. Maybe if they paid me to watch them, that would be different. lol

[Captain Hilts]

22. And they go after military personnel because they know their paychecks are good. nt

[EFerrari]

28. They sure do. n/t

[theHandpuppet]

26. How about the ones that offer loans for forking over the title of your car?

That's the big one around here and really disgusting.

[Kitty Herder]

29. I'm having a nightmare i.d. theft experience with one of those right now.

Get this. Someone took out a loan on a title to a car I haven't owned in years in MY name at one of those places. (The title was lost and the state sent a new one to the people I sold the car to, who no longer own it. It's all very confusing.) I can't convince this outfit that it wasn't me who took out the loan. I've had no other problems that would indicate identity theft.

These people never even asked for ID before giving someone a car title loan in my name!! Totally irresponsible. These places should be shut down!!!!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

30. Especially those Money Tree ads

I don't know how widespread the Money Tree franchise is, but they have these commercials with a man and woman dressed like green caterpillars up in a tree. The writing for these commercials has to be some of the worst I've ever seen. It's intended to be funny, but isn't. And all the while, money is falling from the fake tree with the underlying premise being that money grows on trees. The difference being, of course, that trees don't charge you 8 brazilion percent interest when you eat one of their apples.

[El Pinko]

34. Even wells Fargo has come up with a variation of a "Payday Loan"

If you're short on money, you can withdraw up to $500 more than you have in your checking account if you have direct deposit, and they charge you 10% on that amount once your direct deposit comes through. So you pay 10% on a loan that's about 1 to 4 weeks in duration.

Nice.

https://www.wellsfargo.com/help/faqs/dda_faqs

[SoCalDem]

35. and since your next check will be "short", you can just get another one

:eyes:..and another and another and another

[El Pinko]

38. Details...

https://www.wellsfargo.com/help/faqs/dda_faqs


How much can I advance and what is the cost of this service?
You may advance up to $500 in increments of $20. You may qualify for the maximum advance limit of $500, or 50% of your monthly direct deposit income rounded to the nearest $100, whichever is less. Your current advance credit limit will appear on your personal checking account statement. Your credit limit may not exceed $300 in your first month of eligibility or after a lapse in qualified direct deposit income.

Advanced funds are immediately deposited into the Checking Account receiving the direct deposit income. If your account has a negative balance, the advance will be applied to that balance before making cash available for withdrawal, if any.

For every $20 advanced, the Finance Charge is $2, without regard to how long the advance remains outstanding. The Finance Charge is reflected as an Annual Percentage Rate (APR) in the Direct Deposit Advance® section on your personal Checking Account monthly statement.

Please Note: Alternative forms of short-term credit exist that may be less expensive and more suitable to your needs.

[aroach]

51. Our bank lets us have two grand

Wells Fargo must be cheap only letting people have 500.

Seriously, our regular bank is who got us out of the never ending payday loan cycle. It all started with a broken down car and of course once you pay the interest on the thing, you're going to be short for bills the next pay period and have to get another one. We did it for almost two years before we went to our regular bank where our checking account is and asked for help. They paid the payday loans off and gave us a line of credit like you describe so we never have to get one again.

[backscatter712]

40. I hate the whitewashing in those ads

"Always use payday advances responsibly." "We always comply with applicable lending laws."

You know, no business should be so badly behaved that they have to have an ad campaign to press the point that they obey the law. THAT SHOULD BE FUCKING ASSUMED!

[MercutioATC]

46. Like the alcohol industry?

Does "Always Drink Responsibly" ring a bell?

It's not "whitewashing", it's liability mitigation.

[dothan29]

45. Here in SE Alabama,

Its payday loan capital of America.. everywhere you look... GET $500 NOW!!!! NO TITLE NEEDED NO CREDIT CHECK REQUIRED!

[jmm]

47. Those are as sleazy as the expected tax refund loan ads.

Take people who should have the forms they need already to file their taxes but don't know how to and give them a loan based on what they think they'll get back without actually helping them file and figure out if they're expecting a refund :eyes:.

[pinniped]

52. In Vegas, these appear at just about every commercial break.

In between these are countless lawyer/personal injury commercials.

[SoCalDem]

54. I guess these are the new pawn shops..Maybe people's "stuff"

these days just isn't even worth pawning.. :shrug:

[lisainmilo]

55. Agreed! n/t

[Snarkturian Clone]

56. You should see the commercials in philly

They have smiling african americans happily talking about how their payday loan or car title loan paid for their vacation. VACATION!??!! So people should take out a 24.99% interest loan to go on vacation? Pure evil.

[annonymous]

59. I have never seen payday loan ads or title loan ads

Payday loans and auto title loans are illegal in Maryland.

[Uncle Joe]

62. Loansharking gone mainstream.

Thanks for the thread, SoCalDem.

[0007]

63. There are many advertisements that bug me. But none more than

AARP. Or Captain Kirk of Star Wars'.

"I'm so poor I can't afford morals Sir". (Mr. Doolittle replied to Mr. Higgins in 'My Fair Lady'

[walldude]

66. Loan sharking combined with Money Laundering

Screw the poor people (yes those irresponsible bastards :eyes: ) while laundering your drug money. I can't imagine why these places have flourished. :eyes:

A couple years ago I was short about $500 to pay for my wedding, went to one of these places. It took me 6 months of paying $150 interest per month to finally get out from under this loan. I paid almost double the amount of the loan over 6 months. I'll never go into one of those places again.

BTW it was a nice place with plants & drapes & attractive furniture & well dressed smiling people and it had a legitimate banking feel to it. So those places do exist. But the loan is the same as if you went to a place with a bullet proof window and a kid behind it talking on their cell phone...