Ban the babies, say air travellers

[The Straight Story]

Ban the babies, say air travellers

Australian travellers want crying babies and their parents to be segregated on overseas flights, according to a new survey.

More than 2400 people responded to the online survey by tourism website totaltravel.com which asked whether there should be a separate area for parents with babies and toddlers on long-haul flights.

An overwhelming 81 per cent of Aussie travellers voted for a separate area, saying that listening to crying babies for 12 hours did not make an enjoyable trip.

Three per cent voted that babies did not belong on planes at all, while the remaining 16 per cent said everyone deserved to be treated equally.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/news/ban-the-babies-say-air-travellers/2008/02/19/1203190799939.html

[REP]

1. And this is news how...?

[The Straight Story]

2. Hell if I know

:)

[blue neen]

14. ?

If you didn't like the original post, why did you feel the need to respond?

[REP]

29. Read it another way - study finds water is wet

People don't like to be on long flights with screaming babies - they needed a study for this? is another way of reading what I wrote.

[BlueJazz]

19. Yeah..Well, this is what happens when the Babes start screaming to loud.

[Cronopio]

52. And then they all start banging on their Tin Drums and stop growing up ... nt

[Purveyor]

3. I vote for 'separate section' and a restroom for changing of the diapers instead of using the

food service tray.

[Mojambo]

4. There's a middle ground here. Stuff them in the baggage compartment

Shouldn't be too hard to sound proof those things

[REP]

5. That's a "separate section"!

[The Straight Story]

6. Yeah, the cargo hold

:)

[michreject]

53. Won't they disrupt the pets?

[hyphenate]

67. Only if they can upgrade

the pets in that section to first class. :) (They don't need to be listening to that screaming and shit either!)

[JDPriestly]

7. There should be an area in which toddlers can feel a bit

free for at least some portions of long trips. It must be horrible to be so small and held on a lap or in a car seat for so many, many hours. It's cruel to subject a small child who feels so controlled and helpless anyway to such long periods without free movement. Also, parents should stop and think that a child's ears may hurt at certain times during flight. I get earaches during flights. Some children just scream and the parents can't figure out why. I think the children get earaches.

[peace13]

8. This is relevant to the point that people have lost all elasticity.

Hey ,I am sick of smelling Aqua Velva, maybe the old geezers should sit in the back. And possibly a farting section,,oh no better yet I vote no farters on board. Really, I am so glad that I don't have babies now. There have been acts of hostility toward children on domestic flights as well. The world needs more yoga and less of the self centered bologna. Peace, KIm

[seabeyond]

22. perfectly said. and this is just one area that is an example of this in our society today

peace to you too

[zanne]

49. I totally agree. People should lighten up.

We all started out as babies, right?

[lumberjack_jeff]

54. Fully agreed.

Although the last time I flew Southwest air, a mom and her crying baby sat right next to me. It wasn't my baby. It sucked.

[Stuckinthebush]

61. Best damn post of the day

Bravo.

Humanity really sucks these days. Self centered and soulless.

Wasn't there a time when we revered and protected all of the children?

[Mountainman]

9. This tread will be hundreds of posts long by noon tomorrow.

First you got your freaks that want peace and quite. What ever for I don't know. Then you got your new parents who feel that babies are the gift of life to the world and everyone just loves babies.

Then you got your childless couples who are so selfish they want to spend all their money on themselves/ I don't understand that one either, think of the grand parents!

Oh well let the games begin!

[billyoc]

10. Pet carriers in the luggage compartment.

Everybody wins.

[pansypoo53219]

26. that was gonna be my suggestion.

and how about some incense or febreeze. for crying out loud, try some deodorant. so glad i don't fly much.

[nebenaube]

11. No, I think you ended it right there.... nt

[0007]

55. .....and may your flight chair be the first jungle gym play set.

and don't let your headset catch all the vomit.

[BlueJazz]

12. I think the Babies should be given a shot of a medicine that will....

...knock them out for 10-12 hours.

...Or maybe some sort of acoustical "Mask" that will soften their screams down to a whisper.

....or maybe have a sleek box tethered to the rear of the plane where all the kids and parents can ride.

[Snarkturian Clone]

46. I once though of a travel business where

the riders would be knocked out and piled onto a bus and driven to their destination, where they would wake up upon arrival-- not even aware that time has passed. The only thing getting in the way is that you KNOW there would be accidents where people would not wake up.

[RoadRage]

13. As a parent of a 2 year old (who flies frequently) i'm ALL FOR THIS

We've traveled several times with our daughter.. and she's pretty well behaved, but far from perfect (what 2 year old is). I'd be very happy with a family friendly section where kids & parents are seated together. Parents could help out other parents who are flying alone with a little one (and need to go to the restroom, etc.).

I also fly VERY frequently for business - 3 - 4 times a month sometimes. When i'm alone on those trips, i'd be happy to be very far away from the family section. Nothing bugs me more then a kid kicking my seat for 2 hours, while his parents do and say nothing about it. I love going into a business meeting with cookie in my hair because the brat behind me decided it was fun to throw them while in flight.

So, my point is from both sides.. this makes total sense. But, airlines can't seem to get me to my destination on time most days, and certainly not with my luggage - so I have a feeling that this is never going to happen.

[susanna]

24. I think the real upshot of it is that...

...airlines think you want one thing or the other. You're a parent; great! You're not? Oh.....

Seriously, yours is the first post that grabs the dichotomy of air travel. For the record, I'm a childless woman who travels frequently. One thing I never do is bitch about kids. Why? I'm not a saint, not by a long shot, but I do understand kids. You can't restrain them easily; even when they're "mature" they lose their perspective quite quickly. Actually, ADD makes me laugh in a way; what kid DOESN'T have it?

I have no real problem with the idea of "kid free zones" but frankly, those among us with children will never agree. I'll admit I even understand that perspective, but some parents really don't know how annoying kids can be for those of us unused to them.

Ah well. I'll shut up for the moment, but there is something to this thread.

on edit: clarity twice

[Eurobabe]

42. my point exactly, my kids are grown, but i remember

the infuriated looks i would get if my kid made a peep in the plane. and now I DO that!!! Sorry.

[knitter4democracy]

76. This is what the puppet in the carryon is for.

At least it works on the little ones. I've had good succes with the bigger ones, after asking permission, of course, asking them to tell me all about their trip.

[blue neen]

15. I can see both sides of this story.

It's not an easy issue to resolve. Anyone who has ever been on an airplane listening to a screaming child for any amount of time knows it can be very nerve-wracking. The parents are usually desperate to get the child to be quiet; you feel sorry for them, but you do want some peace and quiet.

I have been in flight with some pretty obnoxious adults, too!

[XemaSab]

37. I was on a layover at the Houston airport last year

and I was watching people get off a flight.

They all looked SO sad.... hundreds of people getting off this flight with that shaken look like a close friend had just DIED on the flight.

I counted 5 babies and another 5 toddlers.

I bet it was a long, long, long flight.

[ConcernedCanuk]

16. "Ban travellers without babies" say babies!

.
.
.

[LibertyorDeath]

17. Stewie says

Screw You Australia!!

[casus belli]

44. LOL!

[fortyfeetunder]

18. Ah that reminds me of the lovely flight I had home once

It was a red-eye, 5 hour flight leaving at 1245AM; I had been awake since 6AM the morning before, driven 7 hours on my way to the airport. I was dog tired and was looking forward to some sleep. Aboard the flight there was a screaming infant a few seats ahead of me the whole damn flight! Thankfully, I did not have to drive home from the airport and took that morning as vacation.

[crispini]

20. .

:popcorn:

Ah, this will be a classic.

[-..__...]

21. Long-haul flights.!?!... 12 hours!?!

Fucking Aussies have more tolerance/patience than I do... 30 seconds or less of that wailing is bad enough.

12 hours worth would drive me to murder or suicide.

Have your tubes tied... and if you choose not to... stay the fuck off my flight and out of my ear reach with your precious bundle of joy.

[Mugu]

27. Nobody cared about my (smoker's) rights.

I was tolerant before, but no more. I don't care to be subjected to discomforts caused by other people or their families. I don't care if you ever leave your (stinking) home again.

You were so concerned about the kids, so stay home.

Edit to say: I don't like the smell of perfumes or babies. I didn't complain before, but I will not be quiet now. We all have to live by the same standards.

[Hekate]

32. You have the option of using a nicotine patch or gum. Asthmatics have no options about breathing

You can't be serious.

Hekate

[Mugu]

65. At my favorite restaurant the smokers were situated next to the vent hood

so our smoke was immediately vented outdoors away from others. I never smoked while anybody (even another smoker) was eating. But that wasn't enough. Now I have to stay home to have a cigarette with my coffee. The only little indulgence that I allowed myself has been forcefully taken from me. And no I can't just wear a patch, see the reason for going out was to enjoy the company of others. Nobody else is there now, so there's no reason for me to be there. The owner is talking about closing 90 minutes earlier and the girls don't want to work evenings because there are no customers thus no tips. Their babysitters make more than minimum wage so what's the point? Where are all these non-smokers that were going to flood the place? And even if they did, everybody knows that non-smokers don't tip as well as smokers and complain more.

I have always found perfumed products to be extremely offensive. I can tell if you've been in a Pier I Imports for a couple of hours afterward. In the past when people wore perfume/cologne, or used the smelly cream-rinse, or some really awful deodorants, I'd position myself upwind or hold my breath until I could be someplace else. No more, from here on out if I can smell it I'm complaining. I don't care if you like the smell or not, I don't. And yeah I could go someplace else, but I don't want to. It'll take a while just like it did with smoking, but it's going to happen, and it doesn't matter whether you like it or not. Oh, and that sound you'll hear. It'll be me cheering as your ox gets gored, and I'll keep cheering until it's a bland, one-size-fits-all, no exceptions for anybody, the government knows what's best world.

The anti-smokers started pushing this boulder claiming that they only wanted segregated seating on airplanes. That boulder is rolling downhill now, and you can't stop it. Comply or get squished. Either way I've paid my price, now I'm going to enjoy watching the rest of you pay yours.

Regards, Mugu

[Hekate]

70. Bitter little person, aren't you? This was about the recirculated air in airplanes...

...where people with lung disease can become very sick, the rest of us get our clothes stunk up, and it's been proven in court that even non-smoking Mormon flight attendants can get lung cancer from your addiction over the course of their careers.

Wear a godsdam patch in-flight.

Hekate

[LeftyMom]

39. I wasn't aware that children cause cancer.

[deadmessengers]

50. Prematurely grey hair, high blood pressure, possibly alcoholism...

but no - kids don't cause cancer... :rofl:

[Mugu]

66. So keep your little two-legged germ factories away from me

and we'll both be happy.

Regards, Mugu

[LeftyMom]

69. No problem, I tend to keep disagreeable and irrational people far from my son

who, unlike you, is charming and delightful company.

[Dorian Gray]

36. Lovely.

[0007]

60. W C Fields sez it best . . . . doncha think?

"There is not a man in America who has not had a secret ambition to boot an infant."
(Saturday Evening Post August 6, 1938) (This quote has turned up in numerous variations, ie: "There isn't a man alive who hasn't wanted to boot a kid.")

[northzax]

58. there aren't a lot of flights

departing cities in Australia that are much less than 12 hours...

[El Pinko]

23. I've traveled overseas with our kids when they were babies, and segregation may be okay...

I think it's absurd to suggest banning babies - people have a right to travel with their kids, and nowadays, you almost always have to pay full fare for any child other than a newborn lap baby.

But having babies in a certain section may be a good idea.

That being said, even on 12 hour flights, my kids didn't spend all that much time crying. The biggest problem was having to do diaper changes. It was really cramped in the lavatory...

If people are so bothered by crying babies, maybe they should pay extra and ride in business or first class. It's not like coach is some relaxing cruise, even when there are no babies. It's a cramped cattle-car, no matter how you slice it. Sometimes you get stuck by an obese person whose flab spills over the armrest and makes you even more cramped. Sometimes a tyke behind you keeps kicking your seat, sometimes it's not as bad. I just grin and bear it. It's not like you have to live on the damn plane (thank god).

[deadmessengers]

25. Crying babies I can handle...

Earplugs work WONDERS, really. I flew over 60000 miles for business last year, and didn't have a crying baby that really got to me, because I carry a set of earplugs in my carryon.

On the other hand there is some really serious karmic retribution coming to parents who change their infant's thoroughly be-pooped diaper not only in the cabin (ignoring the fold-down changing table in the lav directly across the aisle), but in the middle of the FUCKING MEAL SERVICE, and then doing it AGAIN in the middle of the second meal service of the 11 hour flight. Airline food sucks bad enough by itself, and it's aroma and flavor are not exactly improved by the smell of baby droppings.

And yes, this actually happened to me, while on a flight from Milan to Atlanta earlier this month.

[depakid]

28. The Age should know better than to report on an internet poll

on a piece of crap website.

You expect that sort of drivel from the Telegraph- but generally, The Age has a bit more integrity.

[pinniped]

30. The complainers can always opt for the business or first class section.

.

[Hekate]

33. Amen. nt

[WritersBlock]

43. That doesn't always work. I've been on flights with kids & babies in business. n/t

[Hekate]

31. I completely endorse separate family-friendly sections devoted to the special needs of babies

I completely endorse the idea of a separate section that's friendly to families with infants and toddlers. They have special needs and toddlers especially need to MOVE from time to time. Parents need a diaper changing station, period.

I'm glad I flew with my kids 30 years ago when I could still walk them around a bit. They were sweet and I devoted my time to making sure they were happy and comfy. Happy baby = happy fellow travellers. I nursed them under their blankies, I brought home made snacks and some small toys and books. From what I keep reading, a parent can scarcely do any of that any more. No wonder the little ones are miserable.

When I was a little kid visiting a Catholic church my dad pointed out a glassed-in area for mothers with babies that he called the "crying room". As an adult I think that's actually brilliant. Moms don't have to feel that they are disturbing other people when their babies cry or their toddlers get restive.

I don't expect anything helpful from the airlines, frankly. There is no concept of service or customers' rights any more, just asinine TSA directives and threats, and ideas about how to squeeze every last penny of profit from the experience. And God help anyone who doesn't moo like a cow and get in line.

Hekate

[my2sense]

35. I Also Support a Family Section

I've flown countless times and was subjected to screaming infants and toddlers - which I understand. What I don't understand is the mentality of parents with toddlers & children that are allowed to misbehave. I've witnessed these little spawns tearing up equipment, yelling, fighting, screaming as parents sat and giggled at their behavior or just tuned them out. Why in the hell do these parents think the rest of us should be subjected to this nonsense? And yes I have children and they NEVER behaved this way in public because they were not allowed to behave this way at home.

edited to correct spelling.

[devilgrrl]

34. I think the cabin-pressure bothers the little ones and that's why they cry.

You know how the pressure builds up in your head? Then you have to hold your nose and try to blow air through it to get rid of it? I swear, that's what it is.

[XemaSab]

38. I'm sure that's what it is

Childrens' ears are configured differently than adults'. That's why they get ear infections so easily too.

[Hekate]

71. You are right. Any pediatrician will tell you to let the baby nurse to help equalize the pressure...

...that is, if TSA hasn't confiscated your baby bottles, and the other passengers don't have a hissy fit over your naked breast under a baby blanket, and....

Hekate

[LeftyMom]

40. Mine never cried on planes, we just kept him up the night before so he'd be tired.

If you're bothered by crying babies and other noises associated with the presence of human beings, you can get noise-canceling earphones for almost nothing these days. They're a nice thing to have when traveling anyhow.

[Eurobabe]

41. w00t! segregated family areas

Babies are the bane of my existence on long haul flights.

They should not be banned, that is ridiculous, but why not make one section exclusively for families, complete with sound barriers. :)

:hi:

[NuttyFluffers]

45. if we look at this differently this could be an opportunity.

maybe we can get an airline to change a plane or two into a "family plane" where it's like a flying Romper Room w/ toys, an open play area, and bigger changing areas. imagine a flying pre-school classroom w/ seats and safety gear for everyone, but not cramming 3 bajillion people onto a single plane. take 1st class and turn it into a parent/child nappy time area, pull up some seats in rear coach to make a play area, and keep a nice middle area for awake but quiet adults and children.

but considering the state of airlines it'll never happen here. maybe sweden because they care, but not likely here.

[Jennicut]

47. My 2 an 3 year olds were very well behaved on a planetrip to Disney World

Granted, it was only 2 1/2 hours long. The 2 year old even took a nap. We took lots of books, coloring books, dolls, toys, etc. for them. But a 12 hour flight would be really really hard. I would seriously have to consider why I would take that flight. It would have to be absolutely neccessary, like moving from one country to another or to attend a funeral or wedding. In that case, maybe a seperate area would be better. There is no way my daughters would sit still for a 12 hour flight. Any toddler would be driven to the point of a tantrum as they love to run around and move. Also, a changing tabel area would be nice. I had to change my daughter's pullup in the bathroom and it was a tight fit to say the least.

[alarimer]

48. My suggestion: noise-cancelling earphones

It amazingly blocks out most annoying noises and keeps your neighbors from talking to you.

The most annoying thing on a plane to me are people who WILL NOT SHUT UP even if it apparent I do not want to speak to them.

[marmar]

51. I don't know that I advocate a separate area, but nothing sinks my spirit faster....

.... than boarding a plane and seeing someone with a baby or small child seated next to or behind me. :scared:
Yes, it's horrible I know but an hour or more in a pressurized metal tube with a screaming baby is a nightmarish experience.

[Iggo]

56. Sometimes babies cry.

Grow up.

[Vickers]

57. It's funny, the last flight I was on was ruined by a couple of drunk Australians.

Go figure.

[gollygee]

59. I would LOVE to only be with other families when I travel

Truly. It is hard to travel overseas with a baby or young child (and I've actually flown to and from Australia more than once with one). I have more anxiety about not annoying everyone else on the plane than anything else. I would be so relieved if there were an area of the plane and all the people with kids were there. Plus, the kids could kind of play and entertain each other a bit, so there's probably be less crying and fussing anyway. I'm a parent who gives a big thumbs up to giving us our own area!

[Beausoir]

62. I've flown with my 5 kids dozens of times. We usually end up in the very back of the plane.

So I think the airlines already do try to segregate the families. Fine with me.

[Bill McBlueState]

63. As a parent of a 10-month-old,

I would *love* a separate section for me and my family. Knowing that half the plane is ready to string you up whenever your kid opens her mouth makes for a stressful trip.

[zorahopkins]

64. Me. Me ME!

I guess the Aussie travellers really do think that it is all about:

[hyphenate]

68. I have had to listen to that shrill crap

once too often myself. But the worst part to me about infants and toddlers up to a certain age is the germ spreading that goes with them. A child of a certain age can block his/her sneezes and cold germs to a degree, but parents somehow never do it for younger ones. And being a seasoned air traveller, I have caught my share of viral infections from air travel. It's miserable to be in a foreign (or other) city and be too goddamned sick to enjoy what you paid good money to be enjoying. I'd settle for providing infants and toddlers with face masks if they come on board with upper respiratory infections.

Actually, come to think of it, perhaps all passengers with colds and other infectious diseases should be banned from travelling and spoiling the holidays of everyone else on board. Yeah, that's a great idea, actually!

:hide:

[knitter4democracy]

72. And this is why I always travel with a puppet in my carryon.

I did puppet ministry in church for years growing up. It's one of the fastest ways to calm a kid down. I always ask the parents' permission first, and I've been refused before, but most of the time, they're so frazzled they'll take any help at all.

Getting out a cute froggy puppet and talking to a child on their level almost always distracts them so entirely that they forget what they're upset about. It even worked on my own kids when they were little. Add a funny voice and a couple of silly puppet tricks, and they're set. It's worked everywhere I've flown.

[The Straight Story]

73. Cool idea - being part of the solution

is always better than just letting the problem go.

Good on you.

[knitter4democracy]

74. I just hate hearing them cry.

It hurts down deep to hear a baby cry. Sometimes they sound just like my kids, and then I get panicky and want to go cuddle them and make it all better. This way, I calm them down and help the mommy (who's usually darn close to tears herself) and stop feeling so bad myself. See, it's just that I'm really selfish. ;)

[The Straight Story]

75. I know that feeling all too well

kills me to see my little girl sad and crying. She is 6 now (pic below) and when she cried watching a movie the other night I just wanted to cuddle her.

[knitter4democracy]

77. She looks like a strong woman-to-be. You must be proud.

What an amazing girl. You can see it in her eyes. :)

I'll never forget our daughter watching a Chinese movie with us (hardly any dialogue, and that was in subtitles) when she was four. The female lead tried to get a last meal to her lover before he was taken away to the re-education camps, and fell down crying when she missed him, and our daughter was hysterical. She knew what was going on and just was inconsolable. She was upset for days, asking me if they ever found each other again, so I made up a whole story around it from what I remembered of the rest of the movie (that we watched after she'd finally cried herself to sleep). My girl is so sensitive, and movies can really get to her.

[The Straight Story]

78. I am used to boys (3 from previous marriage)

And having a daughter is a whole new endeavor.

She is so sweet and tender I find myself near tears over the most simple of things.

She makes me want to be a better dad :) (to borrow and change a line from a movie)