Florida "placates" the religious right by adding the word "theory" on the final evolution vote.

[madfloridian]

Yes, I know that a theory is a credible belief in terms of science. However that is not what this is about. They caved.

ON EDIT: They did not add the word "theory" to show their respect for scientific facts. I want to make it clear that I understand about a scientific theory. This was done to compromise. We have compromised too often.

Martinez wanted the standards adopted as written by the experts asked to devise them. He noted the National Academy of Sciences gave its approval to the original version. He said the last-minute option was diluted one created to "placate those people who had concerns about the evolution standards."

From the Orlando Sentinel:

More on the vote on evolution and Florida's new science standards

A divided State Board of Education approved new science standards for Florida's public schools that, for the first time, require teaching evolution. But the board, by a 4-3 vote, adopted a last-minute alternative that inserted the phrase "scientific theory of" in front of evolution and other concepts.

That alternative version was frowned on by many of the scientists and science educators who helped write the new standards. And some of the critics of the standards (who did not like the treatment of evolution at all) said the alternative did not go far enough in allowing teachers the "academic freedom" to discuss other views on how life on earth developed.

The most vocal board members before the vote were Roberto Martinez, a Coral Gables attorney, and Donna Callaway, a retired Tallahassee principal. Both voted "No" -- but for very different reasons. Martinez wanted the standards adopted as written by the experts asked to devise them. He noted the National Academy of Sciences gave its approval to the original version. He said the last-minute option was diluted one created to "placate those people who had concerns about the evolution standards."

This dialogue when the vote took place shows the thinking of a majority of the Florida Board of Education. I find it inappropriate that the four of them included their religious views in their vote to affect public education.

Though she had previously told the Florida Baptist Witness she would vote "No," she said today that she did not think her religious views colored her decision. Callaway said she was not advocating creationism or intelligent design be taught but that students "know what we know," that is there may be other theories.

Martinez then asked, "What is the alternative theory?"

Callaway said, "You're saying there is only one theory."

Martinez: "I say that evolution is a fact and it is a fundamental fact."

Callaway: "There is a great difference of opinion in the world...There may be other theories ... This is a point of debate."

Martinez: "Its not a point of debate or controversy in the mainstream scientific community."

Callaway, it appears, switched her vote because they compromised on scientific thought. I am amazed at how the fundamentalists control the dialogue in Florida. It happened before we knew it.

Sometimes the dialogue seems intelligent enough, but sometimes it gets out of control when the wedge issues like abortion, gays, and evolution come into play. I posted this video of a man speaking at one of the evolution hearings. I would like to think it is the exception.

[GodlessBiker]

1. Technically, "scientific theory" is fine, but they should put it in front of gravity, too.

And the Scientific Theory of Quantum Mechanics, and covalent bonding, and radioactivity, and so many other things.

[lapfog_1]

3. Even as I was scrolling down I was thinking EXACTLY what you wrote - n/t

[madfloridian]

8. I basically said that.....but this time they did it for lack of courage.

.

[bhikkhu]

27. good clarification

ordinarily I am fine with the phrase "theory of evolution". But then again you could say that evolution is what we observe in the changes of living forms from the fossil record, much as gravity is an observed phenomena rather than a theory. For the mechanisms involved we have theories, but observation is a sum of stable evidence, rather than theory.

Be that as it may, unlike gravity and other observable phenomena, the evidence of evolution is deduced from a fragmentary (however abundant) fossil record, and logically constructed rather than truly observed. So it should remain a theory - recognizing that a "scientific theory" is one of the most useful and powerful tools humans possess to pursue an understanding of our world.

[Prophet 451]

28. I was thinking exactly that

Half of what's taught in science class should technically have the word "theory" attached to it.

[Coexist]

2. sometimes, I just don't understand people

these same people who spit on one branch of science would never dare to give up their chemo for being prayed over.

i think that 'a day without science' might open more people's eyes than 'a day without immigrants'.

[Dave_Fl_50]

6. At least the weather is great today

And if we did have 'a day w/o science' it'd definitely be a day off from work.

[Coexist]

7. the weather is okay...

I would say it is cold for me, but all those images of people lining up to vote in -10 conditions shames me out of it.

Welcome to DU!:hi:

[awoke_in_2003]

24. "a day without science"

is like a day without sunshine :)

[no_hypocrisy]

4. Doesn't that translate and extend to everything in science is a theory

and can't be proven 100 percent through evidence and testing of the evidence? Nothing in science is a fact?

[Prophet 451]

29. More or less n/t

[Vincardog]

5. Fine as long as they preface "Religious dogma" of "intelligent design"

Every time they mention ID they have to clearly state that is it RELIGIOUS FANTACY

[HuffleClaw]

15. damn straight!

this pretense of a non-religious aspect to 'ID' is such a sham.

[Vincardog]

22. Ask any ID proponent why they favor ID and they say evolution does not explain how it all Started.

They neglect to mention that the "Theory of evolution" is about how life changes. If they want to argue about how it started they need to protest high energy physics classes. Good Luck with that

[awoke_in_2003]

25. It all comes down to one thing-

when something can't be explained, some write it off to some Divine Being causing it to be. They don't want to admit that currently we are not smart enough to explain it.

[Vincardog]

35. And THAT is a discussion that belongs in a religion/mythology/psychology class not science

[guitar man]

9. fine by me

as long as they preface "intelligent design" with the word "mythology"...:eyes:

[LanternWaste]

10. These guys would have a valid point if and only if...

These guys would have a valid point if and only if they required "the theory of" rather than "the law of" Gravity (for only one example) in addition.

That they are not being intellectually consistent is to me, a rather loud advertisement that their's is a religious rather than an educational agenda.

[Bill McBlueState]

11. a footnote

The pro-science people should have said, "Fine, but there's going to be a footnote with our definition of 'theory'".

[Wellingtonrules]

12. Evolution not so fast

Evolution is without question a theory. In fact it may be equally accurate to state that our evolution is and has been manipulated through genetic engineering by extra terrestrials.You see this planet may very well be an experimental laboratory where our creators return periodically to check out how the experiment is going. At times they make genetic alterations as they did when we advanced from the neanderthal stage to the cro-magnon stage. The difference between the two species that coexisted are quite dramatic and prooves that an abrupt and quantum leap in evolution was made. Since the Darwinian theory presupposes that such specie changes are gradual, we must therefore conclude that the evidence suggests the theory to be wrong. Specie changes have occured in quantum leaps suggesting an outside force.

[Coexist]

13. Evolution is a fact - it can be witnessed

the process by which this occurs is a theory.

and Welcome to DU!
:hi:

[Wizard777]

26. On the microscopic level that is true. It is a fact that can be witnessed.

But Human Evolution is still a theory. What gets me is that Creationism and Evolution are not incompatible. I have always thought of evolution as the method to Gods Madness.

[demmiblue]

14. whoops...

an apple dropped on your head!

[madfloridian]

18. Okay, I read this twice.

Do I laugh or cry? :think:

"You see this planet may very well be an experimental laboratory where our creators return periodically to check out how the experiment is going."

Really, I wonder what they think? :rofl:

[Johonny]

20. advanced from the neanderthal stage to the cro-magnon stage

? It's not very clear that this step ever occurred. Evolution is more a bush than a ladder. In this case it appears that both species co-existed in time and neither begot the other. Weither they co-mingled is hotly debated:)

While punctuated equilibrium clearly is present in the fossil data, modern genetic data shows that evolution does appear to be a slow gradual process.

It seems rather unlikely that aliens pop by from time to time to jump start evolution simply from a statistics point of view. The number of species involved is staggering. Simply for aliens to jump starting evolution among so many species would mean the aliens themselves would be so numerous that their presents on Earth would be unmistakable.

[asthmaticeog]

34. You're my favorite newbie ever!

Welcome to DU. I look forward to learning more from you. :thumbsup:

[Joe Chi Minh]

16. I believe atheist scientismificists, who are always banging on about Creationism

(even incorporating evolution), believe that our universe as well any other universes that might exist, be they never so mysteriously subtle, complex and dynamic, are simply random aggregations of atoms...! The trouble is that imputing random chance to such marvels is not belief in a paradox. It's an oxymoron believed in by garden morons.

If so, well, you fail to even grasp the most elementary logic. Even language, itself, betrays your folly. The word, "design", actually implies a "designer", a "planner", an entity endowed with its own proper intelligence. A human being who presses a single key to produce a design is not a designer; the intelligence of the person who designed the software is. If the computer operator is allowed a certain creative freedom to choose elements or modules to make up the whole, he will be a secondary designer.

What the scientific theorists need to do is - 'get a grip'. The further physicists penetrate the macro and the micro, the more the paradoxes proliferate. That's fine. They are intelligent enough to recognise that even the basest form of knowledge, i.e. which relates to the empirical universe we physically occupy, has, with a beautiful symmetry, made monkeys of their predecessors who insisted on a linear mechanistic world view - which the real brains of science, such as Newton did not. Newton understood that 3 dimensions might not give the whole picture.

Scientists at the frontiers of physics have realised they have struck a wall of paradoxes, and resigning themselves to the scandalous fact of their existence, have been busily working with them, managing them, incorporating them.

NOW WHY DON'T YOU ALL USE THE CHRISTIAN TERM FOR PARADOXES RELATING TO THE DEEPEST TRUTHS:

MYSTERIES!!!!!!!

Don't tell me.... Because it would embarrass the heck out of you, you numbskulls! You are now mankind's high priests and founts of all wisdom, aren't you? And you're not going to be dragged from that magnificent temple you've built for yourseves, without leaving long, deep scratch-marks on the doors. (Pardon me, while I wipe the foam from my mouth... The thought of the reverse evolution I witness fairly regularly on here, tends to have that effect on me.)

[damntexdem]

17. Will they also teach the facts of evolution as well as the theories?

Will they teach the theory of gravity, germ theory, mechanical theories, and so on?

[Wapsie B]

19. The things is with treating creationism like science

is that the conservative fundies don't want to treat it like any other science class where things are torn apart and examined bit by bit. They'll just want to throw it out there as irrefutable fact, expecting blind obedience to the creation story.

[defendandprotect]

21. Well . .. Creationism is then going to have to be a "theory" . . . or did someone prove it?

And, what's their other trickly little theory . . . something "Design" . . ???

Looks like a "theory" to me . . .

Of course, scientific "theory" is something much more solid that then ordinary definition of
"theory" . . .

[For PaisAn]

23. Wait a minute

This is the first time they'll require the teaching of evolution in Florida?!
I'm really at a loss for words on this.

"A divided State Board of Education approved new science standards for Florida's public schools that, for the first time, require teaching evolution."

[madfloridian]

30. It has been called "changes over time"...and some teach it and some don't.

Our county superintendent says intelligent design may also be taught.

[Elspeth]

31. Kick and Rec

This needs to be on the Greatest page

[madfloridian]

32. Christian leader in Florida says scientists used to believe in leeches, too.

This Dennis Baxley is a former legislator, close friend of Jeb, and I believe was part of the Dept of Education at one time...pushing to teach intelligent design.

"“At one time, the scientific community thought that for good health, you should attach leaches to your body,” said Baxley, a former state representative from Ocala. “We’re just asking them to leave the door open a little bit” for other evidence to be considered."

Baxley also said this:

"“There is no justification for singling out evolution for special skepticism or critical analysis,” wrote Richard T. O’Grady, executive director of the American Institute of Biological Sciences in a Feb. 8 letter to the Board of Education. “Its strength as a scientific theory matches that of the theory of gravitation, atomic theory and the germ theory.”

The response from Dennis Baxley, executive director of the Christian Coalition of Florida: “He’s in error.”

http://ianramjohn.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/creationism-in-florida/

[El Fuego]

33. I like this quote: (from one sane voice on the Board)

"We can pretend all we want that what we're trying to do here is something in the interest of academic freedom or to allow critical thinking," Martinez said. "What's going on here is an effort by people who are opposed to evolution to water down our standards."

From the Palm Beach Post

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/state/content/state/epaper/2008/02/20/m1a_evolve_0220.html

The first line of this article is good:

"TALLAHASSEE — Evolution got an opposable thumbs up Tuesday when the Florida Board of Education agreed to include it for the first time in the state's public school science curriculum."

Opposable thumbs up! Ha! :rofl: